For those of us venturing through the phytoestrogen route, a question occurs to me.  Should not the dosages be dependent on the individual's weight.  I would think that the dose for a 140 pound person would be well diluted in a 240 pounder.  Given the weaker nature I would think that accurate weight based dosing would be important.

 

Thoughts and comments?

 

TYVM

This post was edited by Olivia Richards at May 23, 2015 4:41 PM BST

phytoestrogen's you would probably have to eat your way through your own body weight to see any noticable difference.   Why not take a form of 17B estradiol, much cheaper and much more effective.

Eventually I shall. For not; however, this shall l have to do and I'd prefer to maximize the effect of this herbal witches brew.

From my reasearch....

To achieve any results of any kind :

1. You would need to measure your natural testosterone and estrogen levels.

2. Medicate depending on the balance of these two. In particular, the estrogen levels would eed to far exceed your testosterone levels which is generally achieved by suppressing the testosterone and incrasing the estrogen.

 

Amount of actually accessible estrogen in those herbal remedies is probably 1/100th (or less) of a very low dose of a HRT based medication (which are generally aimed at assisting a menopausal woman who stil produces natural hormones). You would probably need to "eat" herbal based tablets every 2 minutes every day which I don't think is healthy......

 

Of course I'm not a Doctor or Endocrinologist....

I tried the herbal Estroven when I attempted to come out back in the 90's. It was a total waste of money. Once I actually started HRT, I noticed a difference. As Shirley noted, you have to also reduce the Testerone that is being produced so that estrogen is the predominant hormone. This is best done under an endos supervision as hormones are powerful things that shouldn't be mucked around with on a whim. 

Well you don't "have to" block the testosterone but its usually the accepted course of action.

You simply have to counterbalance it and far exceed the lvel I guess but that would possibly place you in a very dangerous dosage level of Estrogen. I am sure males with low testosterone levels naturally might get away with it.

Testesterone blockers are actually what they are, they block the androgen receptors from recognising testesterone, suplemented by natural 17B estradiol, is the way to go, unless of course you have a form of AIS then blockers are not needed.

 

Many plants contain compounds that directly or indirectly affect hormones or hormone activity in the body. Since phytoestrogens (i.e., "Plant Estrogens") are far weaker than their animal counterparts, they can be used effectively to manage overabundant or deficient amounts of estrogen. The molecular structure of phytoestrogens is so similar to those in animals that they readily bind with estrogen receptors, in some cases even more readily than the actual animal steroids. Becase the plant steroids are so much less "reactive," though, they occupy the receptor while only performing some (or none) of the job. The animal estrogen is swept on in the bloodstream to either bind with some other receptor, a blood protein, or ultimately to be destroyed in the liver or excreted from the body altogehter. In this way, plant hormones can be used to "block" the direct activity of free, unbound estrogen in the body. If there is a deficiency the small amount of stimulation from the plant hormones can cause a mild estrogenic effect and in this way act as an estrogen supplement.

USE IN TRANSGENDER FEMINZATION

If you are a Male-to-Female transgendered person who have come to this page in search of information on over-the-counter natural/herbal hormones for the purpose of feminizing your body, you need to be aware that the effectiveness of the few herbals the DO exert estrogenic actions is extremely minimal because phytoestrogens tend to be only about 1/1000th as strong as animal estrogens. These herbal drugs may work well to help balance a biological females peri-menopausal or post-menopausal endocrine system, but they are wholly insufficient for over-riding a biological male's testosterone dominance. The amounts of herb that would have to be consumed would be dangerous if not outright toxic. While some people do report some minor effect from certain herbal formulations (such as gynecomastia or a small amount of fat redistribution) the majority of transgender people who've tried them will tell you that herbals are ineffective and a waste of money if your goal is to fully feminize your body. Only prescription-grade hormones will provide adequate feminization results (some of which are bio-identical to what your body produces - i.e., "natural") .

 

I personally cannot see the reason to spend hundreds of dollars more on herbals, than kosher medication from the in house pharmacy.

 

Have a word with Lucy Diamond the moderator of this forum, her knowledge and research on this particular subect is exemplary.

This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at May 24, 2015 2:07 PM BST

Perhaps nto being able to get a hold of a script is an issue?

Don't you?

Oh okay well then I guess I retract my comment and there's no excuse to stick it with the herbals as you suggest.

Lucy

 

I do appreciate your comments and concern.  The reason I postged my initial query was that I was concerned with a dilution effect - for any medication for htat matter.  For example, if one disloves a teaspoon of siugar in a cup (250 ml) of water and a teaspoon in a gallon of water (4 liters-ish), the latter would be much less sweet.  In other words woudl 100 mg of a medication be as effective when "diluted" in the 240 pound person vs the 140 pound person?  I know that I have medication for our dog that is dosed specifally by wait.

 

As to the rest of your response, you are clearly passionate about your beliefs and I would never presume to challenge them.  However, there is an old native-american expression that goes something like, "don't judge a man (woman) until you've walked a mile in his (her) moccasins."  Everyone's unique life path is merely a series of decissions, both right and wrong.  The decisions and events that bring one person to this point are unique, like one's fingerprints.  

 

I admire your courage in your tansition.  I only hope that, someday, I can follow a similar path.

 

xoxo

 

Olivia

Weight would possibly play a factor but I would sa it still has a lot to do with the levels of natural hormones in your body.

Things like worming are different as they need to be distributed throughout the blood stream whereas horones would specifically target certain areas/receptors (Lucy might correct me on that if I'm wrong)...

Olivia your similie with the water and sugar, yes it would be less sweet but you would have ingested exactly the same amount of sugar, which will still be absorbed into your body, you would just want to pee more.

This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at May 26, 2015 5:13 PM BST

Cristine,

 

Thanks ofr your comment. You have an interesting point.

 

Lucy,

 

I do not feel judged by you.  Not to worry.  My life is in a bit of a messy wirlwind and I'm only now taking the first baby steps toward true self-realization by starting therapy.  The social and financial complication I'm dealing with preclude me from following my heart, unfettered.  Though the efficacy of "herbal therapy" may very well be dubious, at best, in my heart I feel like i'm at least doing something.  Though my brain has doubts.

 

Thanks all for your info, commenst snd support.

 

xoxo

 

Olivia