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  • A transgender woman who raped a teenager while still living as a man has been jailed for eight years.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35726292

    At the end of the trial the judge said it was likely Ayrton would be held at a male prison.  (what do you think?)

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at August 2, 2017 12:14 AM BST
      March 5, 2016 3:51 PM GMT
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    I read the Article , and it does not indicate that the defence included any assesment of the accused by an Expert witness that identified the accused's Transgender Nature as significant  to the Case OR the Sentence. The fact that incident happened in 2004 , and the accused changed name in 2012,hearing in 2016 but cannot apparently provide defence evidence in that time  supporting their transgendered status as SIGNIFICANT means that the judge apparently has no justification to treat the accused as definitively Transgendered.

    The article declares the judge to have said it was "likely" that Ayrton would go to a Male Prison.- This seems to leave the accused with the option to contest this.

    - I am not legally trained , just a lay persons view 

    <p>Donna_V</p>
      March 5, 2016 5:23 PM GMT
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  • Sentance apart, it's interesting, a quandry for the judge, I will see if I can get a full transcript of the proceedings and what submissions were made by the defence  barrister.   Stuck between the devil and the deep sea, incarcerated in a womans prison would be hell, likewise in a mens prison, might be raped, some might say poetic justice.   Legally, changing ones name does not make them legally female, althought considerations must be given under imprisonment ammendments GRA 2010

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 6, 2016 7:07 PM GMT
      March 5, 2016 5:47 PM GMT
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  • The case is actually straightforward. Ms Ayrton was sentenced as anyone else would be. The Judge will start with the Sentencing Guidelines.

    Without more details of the facts, it is not really possible to say where it falls in the guidelines (see the table on page 10), but at a rough guess it is a 3B case. This gives a starting point of 5 years.

    But we will have to see what the Judge made of the case when it come to sentence. It may be that the case is in a higher category due to the vulnerability of the victim or other factors that we are not aware of.

    The question that the public have been more interested in is where Ms Ayrton will go to prison. The Judge stated that she will go to HMP Winchester (a mens prison), but it will be a matter for the prison service as to where she is housed.

    It is clear that some steps will have to be taken to protect her as it is likely that Ms Ayrton will be vulnerable in custody. as a rapist in a womans prison or a transexual in a mens prison.   One has to consider the implications of her claim to be a woman, regarding the crime she was convicted of.

     

    It is a very difficult and complicated area, that throws up all sorts of potential issues. There is probably not one right answer, and there are certainly no easy answer, but it is something that the Prison Service will have to get to grips with soon.

     

     

    On 30 October 2015, Tara Hudson had her appeal against sentence heard at the Crown Court in Bristol. Nothing unusual there? So why has the case piqued our interest?

    Well, as usual, there is widespread mis-reporting as to the facts. So, here’s my attempt at straightening things out.

    Hudson was convicted of assault by beating and sentenced at the magistrates court to a 12-week custodial sentence. Hudson is a transgender woman who has lived all of her adult life as a woman and has undergone “six years of … surgery”. However, as her passport states that she is male, she was required to serve her sentence at HMP Bristol, a male prison. It was reported that she described her first week in the male prison – despite being segregated – as unrelenting frightening.

    As is her right, she appealed against the sentence of 12 weeks. I don’t know any of the facts and – for the purposes of this post – they aren’t really that relevant.

    Much of the press reports – and numerous tweets I have seen – criticised the court:

    Transgender woman Tara Hudson loses appeal to be removed from male prison

     

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 6, 2016 6:32 PM GMT
      March 5, 2016 5:58 PM GMT
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  • A tough one but in my opinion the sentence is not enough as not much of 8 years will be served depending on the rapists behaviour in prison.

    The scars of a violent rape are very hard to live with , it is a life sentence , I know because it happened to me at the age of 12.

     

    As for this person being placed in a male prison? As the individual has not taken their gender reassignment any further than a name change they are still legally a male. A female prison would not be the place to put this person as they could be a danger to female prisoners. The fact that the prisoner could be the target of males being in a male prison , then it is the rapists fault for committing the crime against who was only still a child.

     

    Compare this to the case of Tara Hudson who was in actual fact a woman in the eyes of medical experts Tara Hudson was sent to a male prison. She was only removed after appeals towards the end of her sentence.

     

    A change of name does not make anyone a woman , a change of clothing does not make anyone a woman. I do not know this persons background but if they did not seek or were refused medical help from professionals then there is doubt to their gender identity.

    The court must have taken this into consideration as Tara Hudson's case led to new guide lines being set for judges for transgender individuals. The judge would have had to have taken this into consideration. If in the eyes of the law a person is a male and they commit a crime then they have to be sent to a male prison. As I said it is a tough one not knowing the persons background but I think they got it right , where as Tara Hudson's case was a very big mistake.

      March 5, 2016 6:01 PM GMT
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  • Seems we were both typing at the same time Crissie , also seems Tara Hudson came to both of our minds.

      March 5, 2016 6:09 PM GMT
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  • In the Case of Tara Hudson

    This is where the press seem to have jumped to conclusions. The appeal was an appeal against sentence. according to the transcript the basics about the appeal from the magistrates’ court here. In essence, the hearing on 30th October – the appeal – was a rehearing. There was a Court Judge sitting with two magistrates. The appeal was concerned only with the level of sentence, not where the sentence was to be served (more of that below). The court considered the guidelines and dismissed the appeal. The court had no power to direct where the sentence was to be served, only whether to increase/reduce the sentence or to dismiss the appeal. In this case, they dismissed the appeal as they were not satisfied that the magistrates had incorrectly categorised the offence and imposed an incorrect sentence.  Not about transfer to a womans prison.

     

    Regarding Tara Hudson, the change of gender ammendment to the passport act came into effect in 2008.

     

    3.5 Passports

    The Passports Act 2008, section 11, offers an important avenue for recognition of the acquired gender of a transsexual person. For this purpose, a person who is transsexual may seek a passport in their new name and have their new sex entered therein. This does not confer any right or entitlement not connected with the purposes of the Passports Act. For instance, it would not alter the legal gender of the person for the purpose of marriage law or entitle one to a reissued birth certificate noting the acquired gender. which is a consideration for The Gender Recognition Panel.

    If she was sentenced prior to that, technically she was legitimaely sent to a male prison, BUT if it was after was she aware of the right to change it and was her barrister ignorant of her rights.   Consideration i should have been taken into account she had, had surgery, presumably SRS, so under the sentencing guidlines under to 1999 Human rights act and subsequent addition to the new GRA avt in 204, which came into effect in 2005, she should have been sent to a female prison.   Someone made a big mistake on that one.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 6, 2016 1:50 PM GMT
      March 5, 2016 6:13 PM GMT
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  • Yes Tara Hudson's case was a massive mistake and I was led to believe from what I had read that lessons had been learnt from it.

    As for this case? You tell me Crissie as I cannot see this individual being sent to a female prison as there are no grounds for it the way things stand.

      March 5, 2016 6:24 PM GMT
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  • Well, the decision as to where someone serves their sentence falls under the remit of the Ministry of Justice and the Prison Rules. It is not down to an order of the court and is largely an administrative exercise. So what do the rules say? Well here I turn to a public lawyer using his explanation.   The public lawyer, as it happens: Matthew Stanbury, a barrister at Garden Court North tweeting as @thepubliclawyer. He has blogged about the prison rules aspect of the case (the blog is very good and well worth checking out beyond this story). He says that the Ministry of Justice’s policy is perfectly clear and capable of producing the right result in Hudson’s case. He quotes the policy: “4.1 Prison Rule 12(1) provides that women prisoners should normally be kept separate from male prisoners. 4.2 In most cases prisoners must be located according to their gender as recognised under UK law. Where there are issues to be resolved, a case conference must be convened and a multi-disciplinary risk assessment should be completed to determine how best to manage a transsexual prisoner’s location. See Annex D for more details”. Annex D then says: “D.1 Some transsexual people will be sufficiently advanced in the gender reassignment process that it may be appropriate to place them in the estate of their acquired gender, even if the law does not yet recognise they are of their acquired gender. In such cases establishments may wish to seek guidance from the Women’s Team. … D.3 The case conference should review the prisoner’s individual circumstances and make a recommendation to the relevant senior manager above establishment level who will make the final decision”. Matthew notes that the reason for this situation is that the case conference does not happen prior to the sentencing hearing, the resolution of which could, in this case, have avoided the entire issue.

     

    Conclusion (my considered opinion)

    So we see that the press reports are directing their anger and disgust at the wrong branch of state: the courts here performed their duty within their remit, determining the question of whether or not her sentence was too long. The issue of where she serves her sentence (which undoubtedly should be in a female prison) is left up to the prison authorities. It is hoped that a case conference will be organised as a matter of haste and the issue in this case resolved. As for the press, a little bit of research  would have avoided more wildly inaccurate law reporting.

    I think the Trial Judge could have used the following to set a precedent,

     

     

     

    The option of Matter of first impression, to apply or make a ruling of precedent, case law. (Legal principles enunciated and embodied in judicial decisions that are derived from the application of particular areas of law to the facts of individual cases)

     

    http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/10178/how-we-can-make-changes

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 6, 2016 2:24 PM GMT
      March 5, 2016 6:41 PM GMT
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  • You will have to forgive me Crissie , as you know I am a bit thick lol.

     

    So if we look at it this way and I will use something close to my heart as an example. Ian Huntley who raped and murdered the two poor innocent school girls , Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman not far from where I was living.

    If he decided to tell the prison he was a woman and he could fool them does that mean he could be transferred to a womans prison?.

    This could start a very big snowball rolling if that were the case. I try to get my head around things in life but some things just baffle me.

    Psychology has to play a part in this or the whole system will just crash. Surely any person would have to be psychologically tested and be 100% sure they say they are who they are , the gender they are , and say they are. A simple name change can be done by anyone and for any reason they wish to , that includes deception.

     

    The best way around this is for any transgender person to be fully assessed by a medical professional , a specialist in transexualism/gender identity , then a decision can be made , and only then. If not surely the system will be left open to abuse. Yes changes need to be made but they can only be made by professional people who know what they are doing , not me I can only give an opinion.

    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 6, 2016 7:02 PM GMT
      March 5, 2016 7:27 PM GMT
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  • No it does not mean someone can just say they are a woman, perhaps that why the judge in the case of Davina Ayrton hinted, about going to a male prison, only my opinion, think that was right, in the case of Sara Hudson they got it wrong.   There are references in the GRA about sentencing policy for Trans people, and guidelines for there accomodation, under medical supervision and proven history of gender identity issues.   I think judges should make recomendations to prison authorities after pre sentencing reviews.

    That would be my application to a court, representing a trans defendant. regardless of the crime, if they were genuine, obviously its a lawyers duty to make the best case for their client, but they are not bound to fabricate or deceive a court in representation.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 5, 2016 7:48 PM GMT
      March 5, 2016 7:46 PM GMT
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  • http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7775/ts-and-the-criminal-justice-system            October 10, 2010 5:18 PM BST 

     

    Furthermore, those receiving hormone therapy will
    be likely to have their treatment stopped, at least in the short term.
    In order to avoid such issues, a recent court case33 suggests that the
    prison service in England, Wales and Scotland must consider how best
    to house trans prisoners to ensure that the establishment they are
    placed in is suitable for their particular gender identity. For similar
    reasons, the probation service should also consider how best to house
    trans people released on parole and ensure that they are placed in a
    facility of appropriate gender role.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 6, 2016 8:18 AM GMT
      March 5, 2016 8:08 PM GMT
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  • You know what? Sometimes I am so pleased I am me. I have no intention of commiting a crime and if I have to stay in hospital I get put on the womans ward , they don't bung me in with men. My life may have been hard in the past but now I like it simple.

    Crissie I have said this many times "You amaze me" . I always feel compelled to read your posts and your work (even if sometimes I can't understand it). Never give up amazing me and be very proud of what you do , I am very proud of you .

    xxx

      March 5, 2016 8:13 PM GMT
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  • 1 146

    Thanks Cris and Julia for sharing this,.Its very unfortunate that most people will see this press article in isolation only ,without knowing the essential detail about the various hearings and their  context.In this respect the Press to me come out as dangerously negligent and misleading. Its sad because clearly there are clearly  people who are much more considerate working behind the scenes in our criminal and legal systems to handle such issues.

                 

    <p>Donna_V</p>
      March 6, 2016 8:35 AM GMT
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  • No need to thank me Donna this is Crissie's thread and work , I just give my opinions which some seem to think I have no right to have. They are my opinions and no one has to agree with them.

    I will Thank you though Donna for taking the time to respond. I wish there were more like you here who would take the time to respond to what I consider to be the important things in life.

     

    Take care x

    This post was edited by Former Member at March 6, 2016 4:25 PM GMT
      March 6, 2016 9:47 AM GMT
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  • Ministry of Justice, = offenders service.

    1. Executive summary

    Background

    1.1. A transsexual person is someone who lives or proposes to live in the gender opposite to the one assigned at birth. The gender in which the transsexual person lives or proposes to live is known as that person’s acquired gender. A transsexual person may or may not have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, which is described in detail at Annex A.

    1.2. The Gender Recognition Act 2004, described in detail at Annex E, provides for transsexual people to apply to the Gender Recognition Panel for legal recognition of their acquired gender through the issue of a gender recognition certificate.

    1.3. This PSI contains guidance on the care, management and treatment of transsexual prisoners – both with and without gender recognition certificates. It covers medical treatment, living in an acquired gender role, location in the estate, and searching, and explains the legal position.

    1.4. Recent legislative changes and court judgments have had implications for how we care for and manage transsexual prisoners. This PSI reflects the advice that has been given about these changes and clearly sets out how prisons can comply with the law in a way that is safe for the transsexual prisoner and others.

    Desired outcomes

    1.5. To ensure that all transsexual prisoners are treated fairly and in accordance with the law.

    Mandatory actions

    1.6. Establishments must ensure that the care and management of transsexual prisoners is undertaken in accordance with this PSI.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 20, 2016 1:57 PM GMT
      March 7, 2016 11:21 PM GMT
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  • Prison officials have reportedly expressed concerns that prisoners may be falsely declaring themselves transgender, out of a belief that they will be given access to privileges and separate facilities, and have prompted a review of current policy.

    According to a report in the Sunday Times, up to 100 prisoners across the UK have told prison authorities that they identify as transgender but have not been officially diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

    This follows new rules introduced in 2011 which remove the need for professional diagnosis, leaving self-identification as transgender as the only criterion. When the policy was introduced, trans rights campaigners estimated that UK prisons contain 20 to 30 transgender inmates at any one time.

    Although these rules are ostensibly designed to make it easier to aid transgender individuals to transition while in prison, prison officials are worried that inmates believe that identifying as transgender results in “a soft life”.

     

    See:- 

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/07/28/uk-prison-officials-concerned-inmates-may-be-identifying-as-transgender-for-a-soft-life/

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      March 7, 2016 11:27 PM GMT
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  • Just an idea. Could it be possible to petition The House's of Parliament to make realistic changes to the laws on this?.

    It takes 100,000 signatures to get it to the attention of politicions and a debate in The House of Commons , that is doable. Frankly the response here is bordering on pathetic at this moment in time [just 3 of us].

    Using social media though it could be done.

    Is it worth it please?.

      March 7, 2016 11:30 PM GMT
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  • Prison accommodation for transgender people

    17 January 11
    Some of the legal and practical implications for transgender people involved in the criminal justice system

    by Petra Boldt, Chris Phillips

    http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/56-1/1009076.aspx

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      March 7, 2016 11:35 PM GMT
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  • Julia, thankyou but under the various acts there are good provisions in force to cater for the transgendered in prison, complicated by the none genuine and the inability of the prison service to carry out the required duties of care.   Tara Hudson should sue the prison service.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      March 7, 2016 11:37 PM GMT
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  • Again Crissie we must have been typing at the same time. I agree Tara Hudson should sue but she should never had been put into that situation in the first place "Something went very wrong". I mean to prevent it ever happening again because it will unless people speak out.

     

    Thank you x

      March 7, 2016 11:45 PM GMT
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  • Considering the billions spent on housing and keeping migrants by our government just one holding facility for transgender individuals in this country (UK) would be money well spent. They could be fully assessed by professionals if needed and anyone who should not remain there can be removed to a prison for the correct gender.

     

    Could we petition for that?.

     

    Suicides for transgender people are already far to high and being in prison will just put a genuine person more at risk.

      March 8, 2016 12:00 AM GMT
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  • As an example of the way our government wastes tax payers money click on the link at the end of this. In the past we were a minority , in some peoples eyes we still are but we are human. We have human rights just the same as anyone else.

    Personally I do not think we are a minority. I know this is somewhat off topic of the original post but it seriously does need sorting out.

    Anyone of us could find ourselves in a court and even a prison sentence. You do not need to be a criminal to be sent to prison.  As an example: A lapse in concentration driving a car if anyone caused serious injury to anyone else is a crime that could land you in prison.

     

    Just one safe holding facility in the centre of the UK where transgender individuals could be assessed by professionals in gender identity before deciding which prison they can be sent to would solve this. This country spends billions on non UK residents who just arrive here and their human rights says we have to treat them better than our own citizens. As another example G4 security charged the government £500,000 per week "Yes 2 million GBP per month" to look after just one family of migrants , and the government just foots the bill , or I should say the tax payer does.

     

    The prison in the link is in the same county I live in. It has been sold to developers to be flatened after having 10 million pounds spent on it before it was closed.

    It seems this country has a never ending pot of cash to just throw away. We do not ask for much in our so called minority. Sorry if this has drifted off topic but someone needs to listen to us.

     

    www.eadt.co.uk/news/lowestoft_revealed_the_10m_costs_of_closing_blundeston_prison_1_3451478

     

    Take care x

      March 8, 2016 4:47 PM GMT
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  • Here's my tuppence worth...  From what I've read, it does not sound like this prisoner is a transsexual.  I wonder if 'he' is a crossdresser who would prefer to be in a female prison in order to have a more cushy lifestyle and avoid conflict with nasty male prisoners who might otherwise become violent towards someone who has committed such a horrible crime.

    And as Julia pointed out, 'he' could also be a danger to female inmates if sent to a women's prison. 

    Also, I bet the media is loving the fact that he's said he's transgender.  They will want to make out that he's a rapist because he's transgender, like they always do.

    Hope I got the pronoun right.  If he's upset then I don't care.  He shouldn't go around raping people.

    There, I've said my piece.  I'll go back in my cupboard now.

    Hugs, Katie   :)

    Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next without any loss of enthusiasm!
      March 8, 2016 6:29 PM GMT
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  • Mmmmmmm if they sent him/her to a womans prison, life could be very uncomfortable, being a rapist. He might get some sort of SRS

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      March 8, 2016 9:20 PM GMT
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