This is in response to Jamie's original question has a "girl had thought that they were gay male at one point in their life".

I never have thought I was gay. I have never been attracted to the male form. My friends have usually been female and I much prefer their company to the company of the guys. I have seriously wondered what girls see in most guys. (well other than that!)

That being said, when my gender has slid up the scale towards the feminine end I have thought about the experience of being filled. How it would feel to take someone inside me, but I'd always shudder because that meant a guy had to be on the other end.

So no, I've never felt gay. Unless lesbian counts.

Jerry

I am just wondering if any girl had thought that they were gay male at one point in their life? I thought i was a homosexual male but in the past few years, I have really started to just want to be a girl. I am 22 now.

Love
Dee

I never even growing up dressing thought i was gay. I am very bisexual, but it doesn't have anything to do with me being TS.. but I had never considered myself a gay male.
Males are fun at times, but i still prefeer being with females and other TS's

*Smiles*

~Valerie

well thank god there are women who like men on here! lol. I agree, I love the way a man treats a girl, i want to be that girl !

I totally agree girl I've never been with a man but a girl can fantasize, I'm very curious to be the girl with a cute guy

I`ve never thought of myself as a gay male. I`ve always considered myself as a lesbien trapped in a man`s body.I`ve never been attracted to men and never will be.

Hiya,

It was all terribly confusing for me in my younger years. Knowing my sexuality and the male body I had, I struggled because I knew the "Gay" thing wasn’t "My" thing. However, now I have finally accepted my femininity and come to terms with being a trans woman, my sexuality now makes sense. I consider myself to be a heterosexual woman in a male body.

I find it distressing when I am approached and a typical comment "You're attractive, I would love to suck you off" is made because it makes me feel perceived as a gay man in a dress and not the woman i wish to be treated with respect as. I feel being post op would solve this for me.

That’s my situation and I hope it added a little insight in how different people live different lives. I wish you all the best and many times of happiness in your journey of self-discovery.

xxx
Penny

I think what Michelle wrote best expresses my feelings as well. I have always been attracted to women. Only once did I ever feel attracted to a man - and never acted on it. it was a brief blip on the radar for me. Whereas the female thoutghts dominate me the most, making me feel a lesbian in a man's body.

For a while I thought I was gay, and was quite concerned about it, but soon realized that I wasn't attracted to men. I have one very good male friend, and I hang out and do a lot of stuff with him, but I have never, ever felt anything beyond the strongest bonds of friendship for him. I also have not yet come out to him, which I should do at some point.

I feel similar to Nikki regarding men. I wasn't attracted to men at all for a big part of my life (although i had some sexual encounters when young). But now that I can express my femininity a lot more... my feelings have changed slightly. Having a man treat me like a lady feels good, and sexually, they can give me something I won't get from girls. But I still do not have sexual fantasies with particular actors/stars...

Maybe it is because I have been married for 31 years and remain married to my wonderful wife that causes me to have a hard time answering questions like this one. My wife is my companion and I don't think gender even comes into play. Am I lesbian? I would have to say no and also say no to gay. In my younger life I did what society expected of me by marrying a woman and having a family. I thank God daily for the woman I married. Now that I live my life as Marsha I have become celibate. Rather than focusing on the what ifs, I focus on my relationship with my wife. I don't think life has to be sexual.

I agree with what Cristine has said here. If you were truly born as a male with GID, then you could not be gay. A relationship with another male would have to be considered normal. Theoretically if the born male with GID liked women, that would make him/her lesbian, but I believe societal expectations have a far greater influence and in the end label this relationship normal, reinforcing their beliefs how you should behave, basically brainwashing you.

Nobody really separated TG, TV/CD, or TS and there is a huge difference when asking questions like this. Gay drag queens are gay and transgender and I can see TV/CD's going either way. I think it comes down to how you want your partner to view you. If you want your partner to see you as a guy, feminine or macho, then a relationship with a guy would have to be labeled gay.

Cristine also brought up how others perceive you. I have literally told hundreds of people about me and it is amazing how many believe transgender is a form of homosexuality. I have been fortunate that my customers tend to be better educated and listen to what I have to say on the subject, but it is a real problem we face.

Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha,

Thank you for that great Bible verse that you posted as one of your signatures! It is really helpful.

Stan

I have heard several stories of guys desiring pre-ops and then dumping them when there was too much talk about surgery. How true those stories are, I don't know. But I would call those guys gay, probably closet gays or gays in denial. Having sex with a pre-op makes it hetero in their minds, therefore making it OK.

I also have a "TS" friend, and I will use that label extremely loosely, but she is partners with another TS gal, both pre-op. Whenever there is the least bit of talk from anyone mentioning SRS, she goes off the wall saying how that person is just so wrong and you just don't really need that, blah blah blah. Personally I think she is actually gay.

Actually I feel sorry for the pre-op TS gal because there is absolutely no reason she should not be able to have a loving relationship. I'm sure some do and God bless them. Then of course there are others such as myself and Nikki who remain married and committed to our wives. So I guess the burden is really more on the guy, does he want the bits or not, lol.

Hugs,
Marsha

Crissie x

If your talking about who I think you are talking about, well we all knew he was more interested in boys, Marrying a TS was just to disguise the fact he was a closet gay, the fact he always presented her as a RG. Soon as she changed from being a pillow muncher to wanting her mail delivered via the front door, it was doomed. Shame she still does not want to know us and remain in stealth. But whatever I decide we will allways be together, I love you so much. Hey, I'm not even contemplating it,, don't panic, but I have seen a great strap on if I do, pmsl.

Saying that, I agree with Marsha, society in general does expect us to still fancy women, its their lack of understanding. I have no idea where that places you and I. except I am in love with a wonderful person, what you are is imaterial.


All my love Cass

No Cristine, the NSL guys!!!! lol Or is it NAL, whatever, lol. I've always wondered if those guys would have a clue what to do if they ever actually met up with a TG gal of any kind.
Hugs,
Marsha

I have followed this post with some interest, as it touches on so much of what we have to deal in our daily and emotional lives. I had one experience with a man (a boy actually--we were both still in school) and recall it with some fondness, but never have sought other encounters with men. Yet when I imagine that same magical transformation that Melody mentions, I envision myself as a heterosexual woman. When I write or fantasize about being a woman, when I imagine sex, I imagine heterosexual sex with a man.

You all are doing a way better job of exploring this than I could, just thought I'd add one more girl's perspective on it all.

Labels, labels, labels...

what's wrong with actually liking a person for just that, that you like that person? Male, female, somewhere in between...what or why should anybody care and frankly, there is not enough love going around, so regardless of what society labels somebody, can't it be OK just to accept the fact that two people care enough for each other to fall in love without wondering if one is gay or lesbian or weird or a freak or whatever? Love is love...doesn't come in shapes, sizes, or neat little packages...I say, don't fight it, accept it, and enjoy it! It IS a gift!

Traci

Cristine. Have you transitioned into a handbag? Can we call you a bag lady from now? Rachel

Hi,
This is quite an interesting thread that keeps popping up.

In response to Melody's and Crissie's recent posts, I thought I would cherp in with my "Penny's" worth lol.

I struggled with the confusion created by having a natal male body and and internal feminine gender. I came to realise that this is what Gender Indentity Dsyphoria describes. I came to realise that the labels we give ourselves and eachother doesnt really matter, we should all strive to be just happy with who we are. After all, theres nothing wrong with being gay or a trans person or a transvestite. We have the freedom to present ourselves however we like and we also have the freedom to change that too. For me, once I realised that it didnt matter what labels i should have, I just got on with enjoying my freedom in being me.

I just want to be treated with respect. I protested when someone refered to me as a gay male and that was seen as prejudice towards gays. All I can say to that is the same person made 2 mistakes, refering to me as male and thinking I am prejudice towards gays. I also realised that this person might make all sorts of assuptions and judgements about any and everyone.

I believe that all these difficulties are culturally based. After all, for a Sudanese Azande to become a warrior in their own right they had to live as a woman with a warrior and perform all the female duties like cooking, cleaning including all the activities in the bedroom. I dont think their culture ever had problems with gays or trans people. It was perceived as "normal".

Hope I didnt digress too much lol.
Love
Penny

Penny - maybe you digressed - so?
I liked what you had to say - or rather "Well said, dear."
I know we get slapped for digressing but it does reflect our thought process - we see a progression and we add to the train of thought. That's human nature - at least for those who use their brains.

As the old saying goes "Stay loose!"
hugs
Gracie

What is a practicing homosexual? is that in line with being a learner driver? does one have to pass a test to become a none practicing

Cristine, I'm thinking they do have to pass a test. I believe after they practice enough they can then take the ORAL exam.
Hugs,
Marsha

Interestingly enough the people of Thailand, the SRS/GRS capital of the world, consider transsexuals as gay. That is the word straight from my Thai stepmother. Do realize they don't see gay people as being a problem.

You can probably legitimately ask how do you define a gay or straight transsexual. I'm married and my wife is not a lesbian, so what does that make me? Likely asexual as it stands now and I would not be surprised if many TS gals ultimately become asexual. I know a family friend who is TS and considers herself asexual as well. Then look at it this way, you have all these people who seemingly believe they need to know what everyone else is doing in their bedrooms. What are they to think when you say you are asexual? But, but, but, but you have to like one or the other.

People like it simple, black & white, yes & no, this or that, gay or straight. That was the point I was trying to make in the BBC thread. Most people don't want to know the details and therefore erroneously try to simplify everything which in most minds is gay or straight. And straight doesn't mean what someone says they are, it means are they like themselves, and if anything is different, then it is gay. The BBC Head of Diversity seemed to understand the difference and established a survey based on that understanding. Therefore it is obvious some do pay attention. The question that really needs to be asked is "How did you come to understand what you now know about transgender? Instead of it being everyone needs to learn from us the realities of being TG, maybe we need to shutup and listen to those who do understand the difference.

Hugs,
Marsha

Well I guess its time to put my 2 cents into this discussion then..........
Yes I have dated a few t-girls & no it does not matter to me if they are pre-op or post-op, its not the body that you fall in love with its the complete package which includes the personality & mind too. As to what goes on in the bedroom well.....that is between the 2 people involved & so what...., if you are asked to perform certain acts it does not change you as the person you are!

I do not consider myself to be gay at all or my partner to be gay, infact to me there will soon be recognised 3 genders & nature adapts to have people born who desire those genders. I can say that to me I feel that I was born to appreciate the female form in whichever form it is in whether gg or tg......

Good points everyone. Heres my opinion…

I wish to discuss some points Marsha raised regarding "people like it simple" and that may be the case but people dont always get what they want and the big LBG and T thing is not simple at all. That is why it is the BBCs responsibility to bring this education to peoples telly programming and the only way they can do that is to include the big and whole picture.

I think Thailand’s perception that transsexuals are gay is in error, for example, take a trans woman who has undergone srs and living with a man. When discussing sexual intimacies with friends, if she were to say she was gay it would be very confusing and probably cause more difficulties for her friends. They would probably be thinking, if she is gay then why is she with a man? I don’t think many TS go round with an advertising sign above their head saying they are TS.

Its not about having a stigma towards being gay, as I understand some might think we see ourselves as women because we cant accept that we are gay. On the contrary, I would be happy to be called gay if it accurately describes my sexuality from the point of view that I am a woman. To stop you from wondering lol, I consider myself bisexual as I plan to enjoy both male and females, after SRS of course.

Last comment of thought. It seems to me that this debate on whether T should be included in LGB or not is fairly mute when it comes to the bigger picture. The message going out to people should be to respect each other and their liberty and freedom regardless of their skin colour, sexuality, gender, religion and so on. For me, that’s the whole picture and if everyone could respect everyone then that would end these difficulties. It also strikes me, that it tends to be young adults, who have committed the hate crimes against me. I would say education in schools needs to do a better job. I recall my mum saying she wanted me to be innocent for as long as she could, thanks a bunch, you kept me naive and stupid longer than I should have been.

Ok, that’s my ramble lol, hope it wasn’t too tasking.

Love
Penny
X

I've never had any sexual inclination towards other men.
I just prefer dressing as and looking as feminine as I possibly can.
This was a bit of a problem when I was growing up especially with
my father as Scotland was (and still is) a very macho dominated
country and any boy who wore dresses and skirts was immediately
labelled "a poof".

Penny you can argue all you want about my comment on people want it simple. You say people don't always get what they want. You are really missing the point then because the people you are trying to get to are not going to sit there and listen word for word what is being said about sexuality on a show like that. They will either change the channel or turn the thing off. You cannot force them to hear what they don't want to hear. All a show like that does is preach to the choir. You bet they can put the T back in and you can feel good about yourself. I'm glad somebody does, just too bad it doesn't make a hill of beans difference.
Hugs,
Marsha

How frustrating! I'm not sure whats more frustrating! The fact that what you've said is right or the fact that you are right! LOL!
Lots of Love
Penny
xxx
:)

Penny I truly wish I wasn't. You present a wonderful concept that hopefully someday in our lives will come to be. I don't like being negative on stuff like this. And I worry it makes me look bad to gays and lesbians which in reality makeup the bulk of my friends. My belief is we have to start where we are now and work forwards. I feel what happens on issues like this is we often think in terms of the goals we have and honestly like so many other things now in our societies, we want instant gratification.

I think everyone agrees it comes down to educating society. The stumbling block is how to best do it. My way is by setting a good example. It is definitely a slow way, but I believe it is the way society learns when they don't want to hear about it. My success coming out to my customers was because I did it in person, one on one. I don't believe if I mailed a flier to them or even called them on the phone, it would have worked out so well.

Hugs,
Marsha

When I was a child, I was confused with differences in terms like sissy (which I secretly identified with) and queer. I thought they had the same meaning. Even though I had many male friends, I wasn’t attracted to any of them physically. I always had a feminine look and although I was good in sports, the ‘greaser’ type guys always told me I had the Kooties and wanted to fight me all the time. I didn't know where I fit into the equation, but knew I was different.

Also, many men of my father’s age assumed I was a queer and my own dad would even give me a hard time - even though I learned to act convincingly male. Interestingly, if there is such a thing as ‘gaydar’, I’ve never been ‘hit on’ by gay men while in male attire – so I assume they either sense I’m straight, or perhaps my male appearance is too feminine for their taste and they sense I’m TG. I suppose their lack of interest verifies I'm not gay

On the other hand, attending TG friendly venues, I’ve been pursued by Trannie Chasers many times. Unfortunately, their approaches have been too rude to consider, otherwise, I believe I’d enjoy being wined and dined and spun around on a dance floor by a gentleman - perhaps even being held and sharing a kiss. However, I probably wouldn't consider a physical relationship because I love the sensuality of being with women. Also, I don't particularily enjoy the smell of men.


Jennifer

I'm very similar to you, Jamie. Yes, I've thought i was a gay male, i still do i suppose although it's got a little complicated lately. I've always been attracted to men, but it's only in the last 3 years that i started dressing. I went though a stage where i was just a gay guy with a nylon fetish, i honestly never thought of wearing the nylon myself. As stupid as that may sound. It wasn't until a guy i started seeing asked me to dress for him that i became hooked.

I do still go out as a gay male every now and then. But only as a social thing as the gay guys i socialise with think dressing is weird.

Ive been cross dressing since I was 9. Never attracted to men,always women. My cross dressing blossomed as I grew up,when I moved out of the house and got my own apt at 18, I x dressed daily. Love everything en femme For me at first it was mommies nylons. I would try a pair on on the bathroom and rub my legs together until I got so excited that I would cum. It was such a wonderful feeling so i would do it again and again. Eventually progressed to wearing slips, girdles,bras and dresses.

what is the best way to prevent runs in my nylons
2:	dont wear really sheer pantyhose 10 denier

I know I'm just starting posts around here, but couldn't really pass up an opportune moment for some philosophy.

Everyone loves the little boxes that they can fit people into (gay, straight, bi) or if they're actually trying to be a little more open, that sliding scale from gay to straight where everyone can fit on a notch.
Probably how in the same way they've got those little boxes to put people's gender in too.

One of my first relationships was with an FTM, where does that fall in the little boxes? I've found that more and more its not important what's between their legs unless that's all they define themselves as (in which case, probably not interested), and its not even so important what clothes they wear. I'm attracted to people. Some people anyways, not all people, because at the end of the day, isn't that what's important?

Hi Marsha,

Okay, for those , like me, who are terminally uncool what do NSL and NAL mean?

My only, obviously wrong, past references are Network Service Layer and New American Library...

Best,
Melody

I thought I had to be since I liked wearing girls clothes. I believed only gay guys wore dresses so adding 2+2 I must be gay. But I was & am so attracted to women & the thought of being with a man does not turn me on. I know I'm not gay just a CD, TG.

There were times I questioned myself about this, and each time the answer was "No." I did not consider myself to be a gay man. All I knew was I wanted to dress, and be, like a girl and live my life accordingly. This does not mean I never considered it, nor had fantasies. I just never seriously acted on it.

Did that make me bi-curious? Maybe, and some would argue so. All of my relationships were with women. So with my impending transitioning does that make me a lesbian?

We've discussed this issue before. I think it is important, especially as those of us who are coming out have to answer these questions to our friends and family.

To be honest, right now I'm not considering myself straight, gay or bi. I just want those men to stop pestering me on the train!

I must admit that after coming out and being myself, there was a definate change in my attitudes towards men. Initially I was not attracted to them, but that changed and now I just accept it. If someone finds you attractive and treats you like a lady, what's not to like?

Nikki

To quote myself from a recent post in another thread:

"I've never been the most masculine person, in fact I think most people thought I was gay. (I've never been attracted to males and certainly never had any male/male experience nor ever wanted to, not that I think there's anything wrong for those lean that way. Just not my thing.)"

That said, I've never bothered to tell others that directly. My friends have been guys, GGs, gays, lesbians and every other "label" you can think of. I've always (since before puberty) seen myself as more female than male, but I've always found females attractive and occasionally would date them. But for the most part, I was more interested in being one of them than dating them (to paraphrase a comment from a recent post from a "New Member" Sorry, I don't remember her name.)

I've been hit on by gay guys many, many more times than I've asked girls out. I have no idea why they were interested in me - maybe testosterone based aesthetic mental blindness. I've had roommates that included my GG fiancee, a gay and a post-op TS.

When I'm in Melody/femme mode, I do have some fantasies about males that could only be fulfilled if I had a female body (if you get my drift.)

My two cents worth,
Melody

Oooh I like that one!

I've actually had several guys confess that yes, a pre op is attractive to them while a post op isn't. Is it a latent gay attitude in them? Some of them have no idea actually, they just know that they find these particular girls sexually attractive. Why not? Who cares what label someone needs to stick on them because of it. It's possible that they like pre-ops simply because of the idea of a third gender is appealing, why have male or female when you can have both?

My only concern for these guys is that you could have a nice friendly (or more) relationship with them, but then the minute you are post op they aren't interested in you. Why not? It's still the same person. That, to me, is just shallow. It also goes to show them that whatever they might think or feel, like it or not, there's a distinct attraction to the penis there, which subsides when it's gone.

What would that make them in your book?

Nikki

Hi Tranny Admirers,

A couple of days ago Cristine threw out a challenge to explain yourselves. So far none of you have been "man enough" to reply to her. You are here for a reason, how about answering her?

I, for one, would be very interested in the answers.

Best,
Melody

In response to Chrissie's challenge, you might want to check out this thread, which had some very good responses.

http://gendersociety.com/[...]2520727

Nikki

Hi Cristine & Nikki,

Yes, the word "challenge" was mine, not Cristine's. My reading an attitude into someone else's words.

I read the thread Nikki referred to while it was going on and have reread it since. It's not the good folks who posted there that I was trying to prod , but the guys who show up in "who's online" but never post and who check out your profile. I'm alawys flattered that someone took the time to look at my profile and there's anything wrong with staying in the background, but it would be nice to get some of their input.

Best,
Melody

Quite honestly Melody, anyone who just lurks in the background isn't worth knowing. How difficult is it to say 'hi' after all. If all they want to do is look at pictures there are other sites that can cater for them much better.

If they can't deal with it in the virtual world, they'd run a mile in the real world, they just couldn't handle a Tgirl, Not worth bothering about.

However, there are some nice guys that get in the chatroom who actually enjoy a conversation and are fun to talk to, so it's not all bad. You'll know them when you come across them.

Nikki