This is to M2F people. How do you manage with your voice 1) in face to face situations 2) on the phone?
Shopping or greeting your neighbours is the easy part, it gets more difficult when you must explain longer stories. And the hardest is to pass in the telephone.
People tend to understand that a person kind of IS his or her voice. If a woman opens her mouth and speaks with a male voice, people react "aha, that IS a man", in spite of everything else.
The last couple of years I have passed even on the phone, thanks to my voice therapist. Before the therapy I had problems convincing people on the phone about my identity.

Laura

This is a topic of such concern to me, while I have never gone full -time up till now I do plan on it. Like you said you could be physically perfect but as soon as you speak you get those funny looks. I am looking in to vocal feminization lessons but for now I study and practice everything on the topic that I can get ahold of. My natural voice is quite fem to start with but it is not perfect, so like many of us I practice every-day with a digital voice recorder "practice makes perfect". I know im on the right track when I get men thinking I am a girl even after I have said something, and I still where my boy clothes. There are some voice clips on the net of vocal feminization with before and after, I was shocked at how well some people do it, and in general their male voice is a lot lower than mine. I think everyone who wants to achieve a good fem voice should probably see a voice therapist, reading and doing are two things and it took me a long time to understand how to play with my voice box by using different muscles. HUGS and KISSES to all

I think our voice is at least 50% a product of the society and only the other 50% a product from the physical assets.
People tend to stick to their old voice as an essential part of themselves, which I wonder, if their whole role changes.
One transwoman I know says: "How can I start to speak with a new voice in my old job? I would loose my credibility."
Well, I only ask, does it give more credibility that she is externally now a woman and speaks with a man´s voice?
The old role game is lost anyway, so why to stick to the voice? Another friend of mine doesn´t even try. She has lost her hope ever to learn to speak with a new voice. So, when she meets new people she explains right away that she is transsexual. I find that outwright surrendering.
But it shows how important the voice is, voice really IS the person.

Laura

As a side issue I am aware that in order acheive a decent voice I need to practice practice practice just as I would were I trying to master a new accent. To record my voice is vital but how? I am so confused between digital voice recorders, mini disc, micro/mini/full size cassette - I want to be able to record and playback at home, in the car, etc - all over the place very often. Help and advice requieed please

The best advice I got from my voice therapist was the sentence: a male voice resonances (trembles) in your chest but a female voice in your head. She said that thinking of this might help, and in my case it helped. Every time I speak on the phone, I try to listen to my resonance, that it kind of feels in my skull.
I noticed on boxing day that I could sing in the church with an alto. And that is a big difference compared with my previous bass.

Laura

Thanks for that sentence - I have read it previously but it is much appreciated - as a baritone bass alas I am more suited to 'old man river' paul robeson style lol.
Again, if any girls have recorder their voice as an aid please let me know what you used - thanks again xxxxx

This is for Tina and anyone else who wants to know how to record themself.

Get a cheap mic at a computer store [about ten bucks with headphones even]. Attach it to your computer.

Go get Audacity here:
http://audacity.sourcefor[...]wnload/

Install it and make sure the microphone is chosen. Press record and talk.

If it is not working make sure the plugs are in the right place.
Also go to volume control and make sure that the microphone under "record" is chosen.
Try again.
Hope that helps out.


Stephenie

The cheapest and easist way to record your voice is with something most of us have nowadays.Your mobile phone!!.Most decent mobile phones have a recording feature,I used mine to record myself,just talking nonsence or reading passages from books,then I would play it back and see how it sounded.Then i would delete it and try again.The good thing is that it is cheaper than buying expensive recording equipment,it`s portable and most of us take our phones where ever we go,so you can practice anytime anywhere!!

Recording and listening to your voice is probably the most helpful way for someone to develop the voice they want. Unfortunately friends are all too often too kind to give you the best feedback and speech therapists are often either hard to come by or too expensive. I know many like to save a dollar or two but I have a portable digital voice recorder that is awesome. It is a Sony ICD-PX720, about the size of a cellphone, and comes with software to link it to your PC. It records up to 260 minutes of high quality recordings so it can easily handle all the practice you want to do. I also use it to record my voice mail messages. It sells for something like $65, but I think I found it on sale for around $45.

What makes it good is you can make high quality recordings then copy it to the computer and analyze it with spectrogram software to see the pitch. Besides that you can quickly record and playback recordings until you get the sound you are looking for. The software also allows you to edit recordings and combine multiple recordings into one. A good microphone and Audacity is great for at home practice. A cellphone works in a pinch for portability but I don't think the sound quality is all that great. I have had my recorder for several months now and still have not had to replace the 2 AAA batteries.

Hugs,
Marsha

Here is one of the better free spectrograms available. Gram 50 http://www.kcl.ac.uk/kis/[...]m50.zip or http://www.genderlife.com[...]m50.zip

Basic Setup

* Pointers: Click on “white cross.”

* File: Click “Scan Input,” (F3) and set FFT Size to “4096.”

* Set Frequency Resolution to “6.5” and Pitch Detector to “On.”

* Set Time Scale to “10,” and Palette to “User.”

* Go back to Pointers and click on “Frequency Mark.”

* Set lower end between 155 – 175 and upper end to 220. Leave the other settings as they are.

* Click “OK,” and start speaking into your microphone.

One Alternative

* Under “Scan Input,” within the “Sample Characteristics Box,” set the Sample Rate at “5.5k.” Keep

* Frequency Resolution at “6.5” and set Band from 0 to 344.

* Leave all other settings as they are. Click “OK,” and start speaking into your microphone.


* Note: There are many ways to use GRAM and they are explained in the “Help” menu.
The above set-ups are just intended to get you started.

Hugs,
Marsha

This is by and by the hardest part for me too. I think i look pretty good, and over the years have learnt so much i now absolutely pass, but i know my main let down is my voice - it is just too damn deep.
x

I know I can create a convincing female appearance, and I'm fine with going out fully dressed, but my voice is a dead giveaway so I keep the chat down to a minimum when I'm around strangers.

Here are some web links on voice stuff that hopefully someone might find useful here

http://sites.google.com/site/stepheniesplace/voicelinks
http://sites.google.com/s[...]celinks

Stephenie

Hi Janis,

It may be worthwhile to note that you can get speech therapy on the NHS. For me, I am registered with the CX clinic, my gender care specialist suggested I request a speech therapy referal via my GP. This is how it was for me, I dont know if there are different care paths in different areas.

It is six 3hr sessions over 6 months and each session teaches the science and techniques to use to acheive an androgenous tone with feminine intonation with everything to protect the health of the vocal chords for long term care. I am currently half way through and I am finding it very useful and worthwhile.

The best bit for me was when I found there were about 12 other transsexuals all doing the same course so coffee break is a great time for a good natter.

All the best.
love
Penny
x

Laura you asked how does one cope with their voice ?

I changed mine. I may be lucky because I used to sing since I was a child in choirs under an exacting Music teacher. I have a good ear so within 2 months had altered it dramatically. Now no matter what I wear whether scruffy and not obviously femme with my attire, my voice is what provides the gender clue to those to whom I am speaking with. On the telephone I am allways taken/ accepted as a woman.

As has been said before though for most others it requires lots of practice. A good voice coah is worth the time and if you can afford it the money. They will Isolate where you are going wrong.

One thing with changing voice is that it becomes natural and not strained, if you do it wrong you could even end up damaging your Vocal chords over time.

Its not Pitch that counts but tone , inflection and use of grammer combined with the subtle changes that can give you a voice that gets you read as female.

Best of Luck to those trying to effect a change.


All the best for 2010 to all

Sarah XXX

hello to everyone,

did you ever think of having voice femination surgery?
the latest was from south korea's yeson voice center

I've heard a lot of good news there about transgenders all over the world went there to have voice surgery and it all went well..

What really helped me was youtube.

I found really nice basic tutorials that were very helpful to me.

Here is one that I found the best working for me..

http://www.youtube.com/us[...]andiFLA

What I like about the youtube tutorials is that it is more visual which in my case made it more easier to understand.
I have to admit though that I'm a singer and thus it is more easier for me to find that voice..and i'm still perfectionizing it.

Have fun with it..


Kiss
M.

The problem with my voice is consistancy. If I am thinking about it actively or if I'm somewhere that I'm not comfortable with, my voice is pretty good. However, as soon as I'm among friends and I feel comfortable, I relax and I don't think about my voice. Before long, I've garnered a few strange looks from my friends, then I realize that I just let WAY too much bass into my voice.

I think it's been so hard for me because I did have a lot of voice training but because I was a large character actor I was always encouraged to "breathe through my feet into the floor". I was encouraged to have a very big, very low voice. As a result, it's been extremely hard process for me to lower my voice. Very frustrating too. It's difficult because I'm such a motor mouth and for me to keep my mouth closed much of the time is neigh onto impossible.

Z

When I started working on my voice, I found two things. One was that when my mouth or jaw was in a semi smile position or expression it was easier to soften an raise the pitch. I don't know if my throat muscles or vocal cords are in a different position or if this is something that only works for me. This was a good thing though because Briana smiles a lot, my drab side does not. The other thing I noticed was that certain letter sounds or letter combinations were more difficult for me. Hard C or k sound and sw were the worst for me. I never used any kind of recorder when I practiced but I practiced a lot, mostly in the car. When I felt like I was making some progress, I actually got on a local phone dating service and said on my greeting that I was trans gender. I talked to guys for probably 8 or 9 months and got a lot of compliments on my voice. It was a great practice environment because they knew up front and I didn't have to worry about that awkward moment. The only problem I really have now is being able to get enough volume, but I have a soft voice when I am a boy too. I am very happy with the progress that I have made but like everything else, practice is the most important thing.
Briana

Hi Stephenie

my, you've unburdened yourself today on the TW analysis couch...Katie will invoice you later for 7 hours at $225...she accepts all currencies and plastics...
I hope you're digesting what you've found and feeling better for it. We're all quite happy to pass on our collective thoughts if not actual wisdom.

Hi Marsha..
really timely post! If my ankle hadn't been really sore yesterday I would now be the owner of an Olympus dictaphone...now I'll look for the Sony one tomorrow.
The spectogram software is what I need...is that available on disk or online?
I'm amazed at the AAA's lasting so long! I was wondering if there was a rechargeable version but now I'll be happy with the basic ones.
rose

best price online is $80 plus P+P so shop price may be higher...as usual we British pay through the nose...

Thanks, Marsha.
This will be a big help to me because my brain deals much better with visual input than it does with auditory.

Hi Janis,

I haven't got the voice thing right after all these years. If I try to speak in a higher register, my voice breaks like a teenager, only in reverse.

Voice is one of the reasons I don't go out in daytime/public as Melody (forgetting my height, weight and unfeminine body shape.)

Folks who know me both as my drab identity and as Mellie remark that they like Melody better because she is much quieter. (Irony is my male self was terribly shy and I was literally forced to speak out in college and in my career.)

Welcome to TW,
Melody

The biggest thing about the voice is PRACTICE. Learn some techniques which can help but it won't do you a bit of good if you don't use it regularly. Achieving a 'neutral' voice is pretty simple, (and I originally had a very deep voice). I would love it to be more feminine and it is getting there but it takes a long time to get it right in order for it to sound real and not put on. It isn't so hard, it just needs lots of practice in using it and recording yourself is a must. You know you never sound like you think you do when you hear yourself on playback anyway!! lol

Nikki

The one which I recommend is by Melanie Anne Phillips - it is very reasonably priced and you get both video and audio files (I transferred the audio files to a CD so that I can practice in the car)

 

Her web site is here:

http://heartcorps.com/journeys/voice.htm

 

and you can hear a demonstration of her voice here:-

http://heartcorps.com/products/samples/voice-audio-sample.mp3

This post was edited by Former Member at September 29, 2011 7:32 PM BST

maybe being soft spoken will maybe help?

My voice has always been a real problem.  I try and speak softly but I sometimes lapse into my "man" voice which has caused a few raised eyebrows!

It is not just about softness, the main element in creating an authentic female voice is not primarily about pitch, it is about timbre (or resonance)

Well to be honest I'm one of these ppl who naturally talks with a high, feminine voice. I'm 18 and when I went through puberty it just didn't really change lol. For advice, try lifting you voice a tone or register and talk to yourself that way. When talking higher, your adams apple will also retract a little. Record yourself on a phone or iPod to find a register u like. The more u practice, you will become naturally inclined to speak that way. Remember u don't have to raise your voice like a little pixi to sound feminine- just a little out of the male register should do the trick. Pronounciation of letters like 's' also helps. Good luck:)

I agree, because a forced voice sounds ridiculous. We should try to make it as natural as possible, speak quite fast followed by a pause, and start the phrase slowly then speed up then end the phrase slowly. Men do the opposite.

If it weren't for my voice I could pass 100% of time even with no makeup which I rarely wear. I use to wear men's clothes just for work, don't anymore, but still had no problem passing as long as I kept my big mouth shut. I don't really know if the voice gives me away or just confuses people. I've had store clerks ask me if was horse or just get a confused look on their face. When I have to speak I try to whisper. I hate my voice worse than anything else.

Follow that link I posted 7 messages back Christine, for $20 (about £12.45) it can change your life - but like all things, practice, practice, practice.

It won't work if you give it one go and then give up because your voice doesn't 'sound right' immediately. It took me about a week to perfect to the extent that I was no longer "sir'ed" any more on the phone - and that is always the ultimate test.

Actually I'm thinking about voice fem surgery. I'm too lazy to try disqusing my voice LOL! I try to avoid talking and for the most part I can get by without. As long as I don't have speak no body knows. But I would like to be able to.
This post was edited by Christine Johnson at October 29, 2012 4:05 PM GMT

I would seriously urge you to reconsider that - it is very risky surgery and the success rate is nowhere near high enough.  Many people who have undertaken that route have really regretted their decision to have it as their voices were completely ruined by it - and no amount of voice therapy afterwards helped.

Carol Uren (Moderator) said:

I would seriously urge you to reconsider that - it is very risky surgery and the success rate is nowhere near high enough.  Many people who have undertaken that route have really regretted their decision to have it as their voices were completely ruined by it - and no amount of voice therapy afterwards helped.

I thought they had vastly improved this procedure. I'll have to do some research to see what the success rate is. If the negative outcomes are isolated I'll definately pursue it.

You would seriously consider spending $5000 or more on voice surgery which might end up with you having a worse voice than you have now, rather than spend a hour a day for around 2 to 3 weeks transforming your voice to an authentic female voice at the cost of $20.

The world has gone mad

Well to honest the voice will be the last thing I'll change. I am going to see my plastic surgeon next Monday to get a upper lip filler and to discuss an upper lip lift and a rhinoplasty. So the voice is probably last on the list. I can keep my mouth shut for now.

It takes months if not years to get a good female voice. I am hoping to get a referral to some voice pathologist very soon. I am going for concurrent facial electrolysis, hormones and voice which should take me about 2 years. Voice needs a lot of practice and I think getting some professional help in the beginning will let you pitch it just right. Personal opinion - voice should be one of the very first things to do even if you are unsure of yourself.

It's a a dilemma for me really. As I said before I could pass 100% of the time if I had a female voice. But I can keep my mouth shut. I have some male facial features but they are so subtle they just make me look a bit Tom boyish rather than full blown masculine. I would however like to get rid of the Tom boy look and I think a rhinoplasty would do it. Keeping my shut is a lot easier than changing my nose. But I don't want to fake my voice. I want a female voice without having to work at it. Honestly though I'm a real quiet person. I don't socialize at all so my voice is just utilitarian to me. If it got screwed up I wouldn't miss it much.

Try speaking with a higher tone, but without going to high, because a squeeky voice is not so pleasant. You can do this by controlling your glottis. The position of the glottis is important because it controls how much air will pass by, so when we shout the glottis lets more air pass through. If the glottis is closed, then more air is forced through and the voice will sound deep and masculine. So by speaking quieter but not a full whisper, we can easily higher the tone, and reduce the resonance. taken from this page: feminine voice

This post was edited by Former Member at October 31, 2012 7:47 AM GMT

One just has to accept that there is no way to achieve a feminine voice without work. Even surgery of the vocal chords only gives a high pitched male voice, not a female voice. Everyone is different, but I want to BE the woman I always knew I was. For that, I am willing to sacrifice every last thing I have and by that count a couple of hundred hours of practice is nothing. Without interaction with the rest of the world as a woman, there is no point to my transition process for I am a woman inside my mind. The process as I see it is to allow me to interact as a woman - not to change who I am. There is much learning and unlearning to do.

Bernadette, it doesn't take that long love - in my own case it was about a week, for others it might take a little longer. Maybe I was extremely lucky in that I understood immediately what the voice tuition files were saying and it might take others longer for other people for it to click.

All I do know is that I never have a problem these days - even on the telephone. That gave me the impetus to work as a volunteer listener for a nationwide suicide help line - where quite often, somebody who is telephoning for support will ask to speak to another woman, and if I am on duty with a man, he will pass the call onto me and I have not then had a problem with the caller, even though she may be revealing many intimate details about her troubles to me.

Now, I don't have to think about it (which you do have to during the initial stages), it has become my 'natural voice', indeed I would have to make a lot of very concious adjustments to even get near to where my old voice was.

Ok you talked me into it so Ill check it out.

The voice is a problem. But then again I don't plan on talking to anyone when I'm outside. If someone does say somthing, I'll probably make my voice go higher and make my excuses to leave the 'conversation'.