Well are they?
Or are they just trying to fool us (the public) into thinking they are?

Janis,
It's a good point you have raised. I have often wondered about that myself.
Perhaps they can be better identified as "closet TG's" that use the safety of "Drag Queen" to protect themselves from the fear of having their true internal "gender preference" exposed. - If so, my heart goes out to them...

---

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, ..some where... in the night"

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/w[...]g_queen has a lot of interesting information on their site about drag queens. One thing it mentions is that the term has different meanings depending where you are located and that it can even vary within a community. Therefore if you were to say someone was a drag queen, you would in all likelihood be able to find someone to dispute that.

I like labels and figure you need to start somewhere when defining traits of a given individual, but I think where we often mess up is believing there can only be one label, just as we often argue it is not as simple as male or female. So if you take the basic description of a drag queen as "a man who dresses and acts as a woman for entertaining purposes" you can easily say that the man could be heterosexual, homosexual or even transgender. They all fit. You could even have a woman male impersonator impersonating a drag queen, huh? Yep.

Wikipedia goes on to discuss the names drag queens tend to use and how they usually fit one of three types. Satirical which are a play on words like Peaches Christ, next is glamor or extravagance like the Lady Chablis, and last is a name that has some personal meaning and are simpler such as Divine. You cannot argue that we see a lot of that here at GS in the usernames and I often bring up the other TG gal at my church who I feel is a drag queen and goes by a "glamor" type name.

I love this from the Wikipedia site:

American drag queen RuPaul once said "I do not impersonate females! How many women do you know who wear seven-inch heels, four-foot wigs, and skintight dresses?" He also said, "I don't dress like a woman; I dress like a drag queen!".

Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha's comment Drag Queen's names cuts deep, especially if your surname is hyphenated and artificial..
I suspect that a proportion of Drag Queens allow the extrovert nature of their performance character to disguise something else, as a protective armour?

Mere, your comment makes absolutely no sense. On one hand you are saying who are we to decide who are drag queens, and then you follow with why don't we go ask a drag queen what they think. With your logic, who are we suppose to ask?

Have you read any of this thread? Nothing negative has been said about drag queens by anyone here. My post was only to relate the interesting material I found on Wikipedia about drag queens. I think the other gals were questioning whether there may be something the drag queen is concealing in their life. Since drag queens are technically a type of transgender, with the question being posed here just maybe someone who considers themselves a drag queen will enlighten us. If we don't ask, how then are we to ever get an answer?

Hugs,
Marsha

Mel I love those ilerterative names.
"Suzy Sweetpanties!"

See yah on thi good ship lolly pop!

I will probably get blasted for asking this but what's new. I would just like to know how they came up with the name and why would they want to be called some of that stuff? Someone please enlighten me. I know it is none of my business, I'm just snoopy.
Hugs,
Marsha

Not forgetting some of the names I have seen on here and other sites, some of the admirers make me laugh the names they choose, Will Hung and Donkey Dong., And what about the one that made Trannyweb girl of the day, Suzy ck sucking slut. I would start another thread but not sure how to do it or if it would go down very well. Hardly seems like people that want to be taken seriously.

Cassandra X

It seems to me that to parody women in the way drag queens appear to do is pretty denigrating to women. And that kind of brings us back to the title of this thread, "Are drag queens really drag queens?" What are there intentions? Are they to bring attention to themselves, make fun of themselves, or make fun of others? And maybe it is the thought that they could be making fun of others that causes society to look down on them when they leave the stage. Just points to ponder.
Hugs,
Marsha

Could you argue that the over-exaggeration of a woman whilst in Drag - remember the outfit emphasises the fact that the impersonator is Male, rather than denigrating women is actually a comment upon Male weaknesses?

You very well may be right Rachel. Are you thinking it is a comment on other males weaknesses, or on their own?
Hugs,
Marsha

Both I Guess.
So the Drag Queen is a female impersonator on behalf of the heterosexual masses - an outlet for an acknowledgement of feminine traits that they'd like to express but cannot, whilst a transvestite in a dress is making a very personal statement?
But what do I know?!

I don't know, I like drag queens and they've always been nice to me. I do know a few who I suspected to be TG but that's not something you can push. I've asked them and made it clear that I was available to talk about it. Beyond that, I guess I just enjoy their performances and their friendship. My fav DQ name? Tequila Mockingbird.

Z

I've really heasitated to chime in on this thread.
I would maybe address one point about drag queens "denigrating women" with their exageratted appearance. consider for example, dolly parton, or tammy faye baker. I've enjoyed dolly's music since childhood, I could care less what she looks like, but I've heard many people over the years make statements similar to the opinions of drag queens I've seen expressed here.
also, I think the trem drag queen has different meaning for differnet people, without a common frame of reference, any discussion of it is futile at best.

Melody and Cassandra have hit on a good point. If a drag-queen is looking to accentuate the "act" by having a name like "Suzy Sweetpanties" - that's one thing - but when someone who says they are TG (or intend to be) takes that kind of name...their credibility "goes right out the window." When I hear a name like that on any "adult site", the labels I think of are Troll, Phoney, and perve.

my name is Doanna!! ...not Do Anna!!

---

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

I would like to address Mere's comment about why we seem to be concerned about drag queens. Why not? Maybe next weeks topic will be GG's with green eyes. I think it is obvious in this thread that there are several perspectives on the subject of drag queens and none say drag queens are bad people. I think a pitfall is when we have our perspective and either assume or want to believe everyone else has the same perspective, so why discuss anything, obviously there is no need. I have to admit I have learned somethings because of this thread and they very well may shape my future opinions. I do not have all the answers.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hiya,
I totally agree with Mere. As I said on the another Drag Queen thread the only thing discussed and expressed are opinions about Drag Queens regardless of how close or far removed those opinions may reflect reality. In my mind the only people who could express an accurate opinion of a Drag Queen is a Drag Queen and then it would only represent themselves and not all Drag Queens. After all, I wouldnt want any other Transsexual to represent me as an individual.

I think its time everyone moved away from the "herds of sheep" stereotype labels and started to see everyone as an individual regardless of what labels they use to help describe themselves, or more to the point, the labels that other people give people to describe them in a disrespectful stereotypical way.

The only factual content here, good, bad or objective still only describes what opinions people have, to which, for those who appreciate it, proverb Mathew 7:1 springs to mind, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Once we have finished categorising Drag Queens maybe we should then discuss how black a black person should be to be considered black?

Much Love
Penny
X

Hugs Penny, but I need to disagree some with you. You say the only ones who can accurately express an opinion of drag queens would be a drag queen. I believe anyone who has observed drag queens can have a valid opinion and has a right to express that opinion. What you and Mere are trying to say is even if you have a positive opinion with lots of good things to say about drag queens or anyone else for that matter, YOU SHOULDN'T, because you obviously can't have an accurate opinion. Maybe we should do away with teachers. Honestly how can they judge students that don't plan to be teachers like them. Makes sense to me, lets start with the college professors.

Opinions are voiced to do more than just communicate likes and dislikes. They also help shape and educate those who stray from acceptable behavior and I am not limiting that to drag queens because it includes all people. As someone with close ties to the schools I hear about it all the time. When students poor behavior is not addressed, that behavior spreads to others. Think of it as feedback. We all enjoy it when someone compliments us for something they believe we have done well. But if it is criticism, human nature is for us to get upset about it because we are not getting our way. It is exactly the same thing as dealing with a kid who likes to hit all the other kids. Do we not say anything because we can't risk hurting the kid's feelings, or does somebody stand up and say that is unacceptable behavior.

On the other hand, if you or Mere choose to believe it is not your place to judge others for any reason, that is fine and nobody is going to make you. But once again, just because you choose not to participate shouldn't mean no one else can.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hiya,

Melody,
The answer to your question, for me, is I have never considered or said Drag Queens are "automatically" apart of the trans community. I can see how some people would consider someone who has a physical male body dressed up as a female Drag Queen as part of the trans community but those people are only judging people at a skin deep level and we all know human beings are much more complicated than that.

Marsha,
A lot of people make judgements about people whether they are good or bad. The point I am trying to make is whilst teachers, professors and "judges" all perform their jobs within defined, trained and professional constraints to keep focussed on what is important, an opinion of a member of the general public watching a Drag Queen perform a stage act or walk down the road or whatever, will not necessarily be objective. After all, I would say the majority of non-professional people who watch me walk up the road would probably classify me as "bloke in a dress." to which I think is disrespectful as judgemental opinions tend to be and I see the opinions expressed here about Drags Queens as no different.

I appreciate that some people enjoy their freedom to express their opinions, however, I would prefer to live in a society where people can live in freedom from fear and oppression that is usually caused by people who express uneducated and ignorant opinions. How many Drag Queens have been deeply hurt by the opinions expressed here? I'm sure none really care lol but the point is, an expressed opinion is going to hurt someone and that causes fear and oppression. Remember this is a public place with the potential for the whole world to read.

Much Love
Penny
x

Once, when I was first venturing out in the real world in broad daylight, I had a drag queen tell me off. Told me I looked awful, makeup was flawed, etc. Said I couldn't get anything right. They showed me a pic of what they looked like on stage: Diaphanous gown. Heavy makeup, professionally done. Falsies. Smooth, shaved legs that rocked. A wig that was phenomenally good looking. She looked gorgeous, every horny man's dream. Compared to that, I looked like a schoolgirl and was told as much. I paid my lunch tab and left, trying hard not to cry. (I wasn't wearing waterproof mascara.)

I went back the next day to the same place, and the gal behind the counter called me over and told me something that has stuck to this very day. She said that she had heard the conversation the day before, and that the drag queen did this as a side gig, earning a few extra bucks and there.

I, on the other hand, was living like a woman, and did I see the difference?

I walked out of there that day feeling like a million bucks, because I did see the difference. And I have ever since.

So I guess the crux of the argument (to me, at least) is right there. Some of us live the lives, and to others, it's a job. And to others still, it doesn't matter because they will never even get to either point. And to a few others, they move past and become.

The TG umbrella is a pretty big umbrella, you ask me. That drag queens belong under it--or not--is in the end an academic question, I suspect, as it truly depends on the drag queen in question. The same could be said of the occasional cross-dresser.

Meantime, I'm gonna keep living my life as the woman I have become.

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Another common usage definition of Drag Queen is a person who is not a stage performer but affects a mode of dress,make-up and body language similar to the on stage ones. I've often heard passersby refer to such a person as a "Drag Queen." I suspect some TGs who can't or won't attempt to pass get called that, too.

Best,
Melody

I don't see how it's our place to make that decision. We don't like it when people judge us, so who the hell are we to say what drag queens are or aren't?

Why not ask a DQ what he/she thinks? That would make a lot more sense.

TG sites are full of folks who have names like Suzi Sweetpanties, Bobbi Blowme, Cristi Corsetsqueeze, Sandra Sissymaid, Billie Bootlick, Bianca Bendover, Diana Dirtydiapers, and Toni Toesuck (sorry if any TGS members use any of these...).
Once again, are these "girls" TG or just fetishists?

I see being TG as having some sort of belief/desire that one is internally female (F2M not included, obviously.)

So shoot me for having an opinion...
Melody

Hi Marsha,

I made those names up (it was really fun) but I've seen similar, and far worse on Internet TG sites (and a few here at TGS if you look). I had a few other really good ones but I couldn't get them past the TGS internal censor....

As to why, I don't know but it seems to me they are looking for humiliation and they seem to think taking the female role fits that need. At least that's my take.

Best,
Melody

My posting made perfect sense. Furthermore, I really don't see why we seemed to be so concerned with drag queens these days. I don't think they mock women at all. My GG friends feel the same way.

Hi Penny,

I really do appreciate your viewpoint. I would never exclude anyone who self-identifies as TG from our little community.

But, are we automatically including folks don't self-identify as TG, indeed would be insulted at the very idea of being one of "us"?

A while back there as link to a story about a couple of athletes who were having a lark, a blokes in dresses night out who whomped some haters who they ran across. Good for them, but were they actually TG or just a couple of big guys in dresses looking for a fight? If they came here and told us they were TG, great. But I doubt that will ever happen.

I've spent a lot of my life around "outlaw bikers" and some were truely hardcore, others were folks who just loved motorcycles, still others were "wannabes" some of whom didn't even have a bike. Were they all really "outlaws"? I don't think so.

Best,
Melody

Hi Penny,

You said, "I have never considered or said Drag Queens are "automatically" apart of the trans community. I can see how some people would consider someone who has a physical male body dressed up as a female Drag Queen as part of the trans community but those people are only judging people at a skin deep level and we all know human beings are much more complicated than that."

That is exactly the point I was trying to make when I started the thread that led to this one. I don't understand what the big objection that Lynn, Meredith and a couple of others have to it.

Best,
Melody