i see these online pharmacies will sell female hormones without a perscription. i can't afford a therapist. i want to start female hormones and a t -blocker. if a girl decide's to start hrt on her own, which she knows she shouldn't without being under a dr.'s care, is it possible to start a regime on my own within fairly safe boundries? what do you tell a girl who's determined to go this route? she's not going to listen to reason. i just want to know the best combination's and doses. i'm asking you girl's so i don't have to guess what i'm doing. i'm not posting this for a lecture. it will go in one ear and right out the other. at least i'm asking, whereas how many girls are out there who don't ask and are going this route blindly . i don't know if this will help but i'm 5'7" in good health, a nonsmoker, and 130 lbs. i have less than 10% body fat if that makes any difference.

thank you. i'm still new here and am slowly finding my way around. i feel silly that i didn't try searching for the answer first. again, thank you karen

I won't lecture.
1. yes it is possible
2. no it's not smart
3. how good are you at diagnosing Liver failure, DVT, strokes and heart attacks?
4. let someone know what you are doing just incase something serious happens to you so the proper care can be given.
5. find a doctor as soon as you can, even if he/she won't prescribe HRT, let em know what you are doing.

Hugs,
Marsha

Sheila,

First of all, welcome to TW.
You'll find lots of help, advice and support here.

I know you don't want "lectured to", so I won't, but I will ask you, PLEASE, to think VERY HARD about anything you do, as regards self-medicating!
There is a wealth of information here, in Hormone City, which I see you've made a quick visit to, but EVERYTHING there is relevent to your thinking, so please read it ALL. A few days spent reading could save your life, in the longer term! There's no need to rush into such a decision.

A little time, and a LOT of research now, may be the best thing you could ever do in your life!

Hugs,
Angela. xxx.

Sheila--

Okay, so I won't lecture you. I'll let others do that.

I will tell you that hormones will make permanent changes, in as little as 6 months to a year. I will tell you that too many girls self medicate.

And, I will tell you that, IF you are going to go this route, go slowly. Don't start at a huge rate; you'll just pass them in your urine after a certain point. Build slowly.

Ahhhh, nuts. I am gonna lecture you, in my own fashion. READ THIS!!!

Luv 'n hugs,

Dr. Minako Sakura

a heartfelt thanks to you girls. i'm definitely going to be cautious. i hope to think with the proper knowledge i'll better my chances os success. i still have a lot of homework to do though.i will definitely let my sister know so that someone will have knowledge of my situation. shes my emergency contact. i am a voracious reader and i will make sure i read everything posted there. thats a promise. i started but had no time. i'm back and will immerse myself into this until i'm sure i have a grasp of what i need to know. i did read your link minako and bookmarked it too. karen, marsha, angela, and mina, thank you for your help. it's very much appreciated.one last thing, i know everybody has a different route they travel on this road. i'm looking to get "the operation" when it's within my means. so yes, we all set different goals for ourselves. i 'm looking for the permanent cure to set me right. i have to say one last thing here and don't mean to waste space but o heard some good news that the ama is pushing for the insurance co.'s to start covering treatments for the transgendered. sounded like good news. i hope it's alright to comment on that in this thread. i was happy to hear that something is going in our favor. thanks again for your kindness,
sheila

I agree entirely with Lucy. There are dangers in taking hormones just as there are dangers in taking any type of drug but estradiol is a fairly safe substance providing you are in good health and you don't overmedicate Always work on taking the lowest dose that works for you and don't be tempted to increase it in a hurry. Taking more meds that you need will not make you develop faster. However, even if you take the self medication route you will eventually need to find a doctor in order to progress.

I have been self medicating for around 18 months now., My development has been faster than I thought would be possible and i am now about to make that appointment to see a private gender specialist so that I can put things on the right footing.

thank you for your replies. i have been doing my homework and have decided tat i'm ready to order my first batch of meds. i want to use the patches and have chosen Estraderm TTS 50 to start off with. also, from what i have learned, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), even in the smallest quantities can maintain the male state. that being the case i will also order siterone, 50mg tablets. i know you stated lucy that because of my age i wouldn't need an anti-androgen, but i want to make sure. one problem i face is i have less than 10 percent body fat and am not expecting miracles. i will be happy with any positive effects of femininization. i will wait until i order in case you have any further advice. 3 months i will go to an endocrinologist. i was also wanting to use the gel to suppliment the patches. is this too much too soon. should i wait on the gel until i raise my dosage in about 30-45 days? i might still be uneducated but am learning. will appreciate any advice you can offer. i also know my age will limit the effects of feminization but can live with this. thank you all for your imput.

Sheila--

**sighs**

If you are going to do this, use either the gel or the patches. I find that the Estrogel I'm on works better than patches would; I move too much and a patch would get uncomfortable. Aside from which, there comes a point where you will simply excrete the estrogens your body cannot absorb or use. That will put a strain on your liver and kidneys for sure.

Cyproterone (Siterone) is pretty powerful stuff. "Liver function tests should be performed pre-treatment and whenever any symptoms or signs suggestive of hepatotoxicity occur" because "Direct hepatic toxicity, including jaundice, hepatitis and hepatic failure, which has been fatal in some cases, has been reported in patients treated with 200 - 300mg cyproterone acetate." Therefore "During treatment, liver function, adrenocortical function and the red blood-cell count should be checked regularly." I know 50mg is a low dose, but....are you sure you want to go there? I'd start with just the Estroderm first, see my endo, and then get a recommendation, if not a prescription.

Whatever you do, this is a big step on your journey...and while I don't beleive in self medicating, I do wish you well, dear.

Luv 'n hugs,

Dr. Mina Sakura

thanks for your advice, dear. i've deciced to not order the siterone. after careful consideration i'm going to suppliment the estraderm patches with provera. would this be an acceptable alternative? thank you for any imput.
Sheila

Sheila, hon--

I am no medical doctor--not even close. Most of them are theologically based (including my counseling degree).

So, I really can't/shouldn't attempt to answer the question--but I will tell you that my initial recommendation still holds: If you must start, see an endo before deciding on a anti-androgen. However...there seems to be less issues with Provera than with Siterone. You make the call.

Best of luck to you in either, any or all cases, dear.

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

I never did order any anti-androgen's. Because of my age and advice i viewed, on top of that, the possible side affects and risks involved, i decided against using anti-androgens in conjuction with the estraderm i'm starting out with. I am starting off slow, with only the patches right now. the lowest dose too. I can wait to combine. I'm not in too much of a hurry. Although i was going to combine provera and estraderm right away, I will follow your advice and give it a couple of months. I'm just happy to finally be on female hormones and am content to just sit back and let the medicine do it's job. I learned a lot from TransgGenderCare, and a wealth of other sites. i would like to think that i have learned a thing or two since my first post. Thank you for sharing your knowlegde. Yes, i will take care of my health and well being. This is very important to me and i want to be in top form. I have not completely stopped eatting meat but have cut down to maybe three meals a week or less. I will soon be a vegetarian. I also walk at least a mile everyday and am in good health:

Please. Don't apologize. i need to hear these things. All of you have been very helpful. I'm glad that you're all willing to share your knowledge and experience with me. From this forum, I've learned about the dangers of anti-androgens and now know more about provera, which will never be used by me. Thanks for your imput. You've done me a great favor. I have ordered a micronised progesterone cream. and will add this to my regime in the near future. i will try to gain more weight, as i want to get the best possible results. Maybe less walking for awhile but yes, thanks for that tip. I know from my low body fat that i will not get optimum results. I accept this fact. I'll take what i can get. I'm not greedy.lol. I'm going to take pictures as time goes by to document my progress as I'm curious to see the change as my skin gets softer. Thank you. Cheers

Hi Sheila, I certainly dont wish to contradict any of the excellent advice you have been given by the other girls above but just to say I use inhouse pharmacy who advertise here. In fact Lisa Perko, who helps run them (from Vanatua of all places!) is a member of TW. Ive not seen her about for a while but you could search her out for info.
Ive always had brill service from them too!
Angel xx

Charlene--

Just a reminder---I am NOT a medical physician!

When I started herbs, I tried several "all in one" jobbers, but limited/mixed success, due to cost. I ended up taking several different supplements--Black Cohosh, Wild Yam, Saw Palmetto, and Vitex/Chasteberry. You'll need to take a good vitamin with these, and you'll need more zinc, and probably more magnesium, too. I also added a supplement I called "Boob Mud"; it was a phytoestrogen cream. (You can guess where it got applied, I am sure.) I took these all all together daily, at recommended dosages as found on the bottles. I rattled when I walked!

Frankly, the little success I had with all this was due to a genetic predisposition to breast growth. And the cost per month of all this was a little less than the cost per month of a tube of Estrogel.

My take is save your money, see a doc, and get a script for estrogen. If you're gonna do it, do it right.

Hope this helps...

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Betty (i just can't call anyone Ugly)--

There's an awful lot of claims there. Most of which I don't buy, and frankly, don't trust.

"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't true" is what crosses my mind. However, it may work for you, and work well. If so, great.

I stand by my comments, however...better to see a doc and get a script for hormones.

Interestingly, I checked out the US FDA's website, and found no approval for Kwao Krua per se; just a filing of info and nothing more. In checking under Pueraria mirifica (which seems to be an ingredient thereof), I found that the FDA stated that they "...did not have Pueraria mirafica, when used under the conditions recommended or suggested in the labeling of your product, will reasonably be expected to be safe." Might want to check on that....

Luv 'n hugs,

Dr. Mina Sakura

Thank you Angel for your imfo. I certainly was surprised at how fast I recieved my meds. To all of the other girl's, i sure appreciate everyone's advice. If only I could afford to see a Dr. and Endo I would, but surely I promise one and all as soon as I sell one of my Marshall stacks, I only need one and the one I'm selling will bring me a small windfall, I will hightail it to a Dr. and Endo.

Sheila--

Good for you--and best of luck, hon!

Mina

Hello all,

I haven't dropped in for a really long time, but this thread caught my eye, so I thought that perhaps I could offer yet another perspective through personal experience.

At age 45, I began hormone therapy (2002), prescribed (2x)0.625mg. Premarin twice daily (2.5mg/day). I began feeling relief from the dread of a lifetime of testosterone very quickly, breast development, softening and drying my then oily skin. Of course, my prescription drug plan had some questions and initially tried to deny coverage, however they went along with it. Yea! Over time, my dosage was increased to twice the original dose, to 5mg/day. At this dosage, my eyesight was affected enough (one of many possible side-effects) to require new eyeglasses

A few months after getting new eyeglasses, my prescription drug plan convinced my doctor to switch me to something cheaper, and she allowed them to supply me with 2.0mg estradiol twice daily (4.0mg/day). Once again, I needed to get new lenses, and I had lost some of that feeling of well-being. I asked my doctor (a different doctor) if he'd increase my estradiol back to at least what I thought my body was requiring (Premarin and estradiol are NOT 1:1 equivilent, but what did I know, I'm no doctor.) and he wrote a new prescription for 4.0mg in the morning, and 2.0mg at bedtime (6.0mg/day). I'm still having some difficulty with stable vision, but that's another story.

All was fine for some time, until I asked my new doctor where I now live for a refill. He pleaded with me to reconsider my continued consumption of estrogen, in light of a report released by the "Women's Health Initiative" (WHI) warning of the dangers of hormone replacement therapy, mainly the risk of stroke and DVT.

About that time, April 2008, I attended "California Dreamin'" in San Jose. It was there that I learned of John O'Dea, M.D., an endocrinologist from Los Angeles. He delivered a presentation where he addressed the WHI report on HRT. Basically, (in my own words) he said that yes, the WHI report was 'correct', however, THEY ONLY STUDIED ONE HRT DRUG: PREMARIN. To the best of my recollection, he basically said that estradiol was probably okay, but all ORALLY ADMINISTERED (swallowed) hormones pass through the stomach, and then the liver, where it triggers production of blood clotting factors, and hence increases the likelihood of potentially life threatening conditions. Very little of the hormone actually gets into your system.

There is much information on his website: http://www.hamiltonlove.com/

NOTE: The doctor did not author the website, so read it with care, and above all, get the straight information from doctors you can trust. There are disclaimers on a couple of the pages, one of them is quoted here:

"Obligatory reiteration of disclaimer: The answers in this document are collected from a variety of sources: medical literature, pharmaceutical company advertisement, verbal advice of medical doctors, second-hand anecdotes, and personal experience. Despite the authoritative tone of this document, it is presented for educational interest only, not direct advice. It contains opinions, sweeping generalizations, and at least one mistake. The author is not a medical doctor, and makes no claim or warranty as to the suitability of the information in this document for application to any particular individual. You, the reader, take sole responsibility for interpretation and application of this information. Form your own opinions by doing your own research. May your favorite deity curse you if you seriously consider sueing the author for misinforming you. The endocrine feedback system is intricate, delicate, and poorly understood. Even the experts do not entirely agree on how to best meddle with it. Hormone therapy is fraught with risk as well as promise. Be sure you have fully considered the implications before you start. Work with a medical doctor who is qualified to interpret your signs, symptoms, blood tests, and development in the context of your personal medical history. Do not take hormones that you did not obtain directly from a licensed pharmaceutical distributor; the quality of drugs obtained through other channels is not only suspect, but possibly dangerous--especially those in injectable form."

Estrogen pellets, inserted under the skin, in conjunction with injectables, is the treatment of choice. The pellets last about four months, more or less, and deliver a smooth and steady dose, much like the ovaries do in natal females. I had my first treatment in May, and I'll be getting another dose in September. I've also been getting monthly "booster shots" and on alternating months, getting an injection of progesterone. The doctor told me that there are progesterone pellets, however there is a high incidence of the body rejecting them, so he does not use them.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area, so it was a long drive (400 miles) to Los Angeles for my first treatment, but he has since arranged monthly trips to the bay area for the many patients he has here.

So far, I am pleased with my treatments from Dr. O'Dea.

Nicole
"Knikol"

Nicole, that was a great post. It sounds like you are very happy with your new doc. I read through your doctors site and it does a good job explaining the why's and what's for proper HRT. I receive estradiol cypionate 5mg injections every two weeks which does a better job preventing the roller coaster effect estradiol valerate is known for. Pellets sound like a reasonable option, but right now I am extremely pleased with my regimen.

I think your post also does a good job showing that there are doctors out there willing to take care of you without the bearaucracy of Psychologists or Psychiatrists. I see this as a physical condition, biological, not mental. Having a therapist help you deal with social issues related to being TG is one thing, but they have no business controlling the physical aspect of transition.

Also to get back on topic, Nicole's post included a great disclaimer that everyone should read as far as using an online pharmacy. Also things like lab tests that need to be done occassionally. I just received my lab test results back yesterday and would be glad to discuss them with anyone who wants. Nicole's doctor points out the differences between taking a lower dose and the dosage needed for transition, the safety of using non oral estrogen rather than pills. Nicole and her doctor also both point out how different forms of delivery, pills, patches, gels, injections and pellets; are not equal when it comes to strength. 2mg for one doesn't mean 2mg for another. Also you have the issue with pills that very little actually makes it into the bloodstream.

One other thing that gets overlooked often is the use of anti androgens that stop testosterone production or block receptors. The most recognized is probably Spironolactone. For those who think they can just stop all the testosterone and either not replace it with estrogen or maybe just a low dosage, I have one word for you. Osteoporosis. That is why you take lab tests, it is not just for the liver, not just to make sure you won't get DVT, strokes or heart attacks. Using Nicole's doctors own words "The endocrine feedback system is intricate, delicate, and poorly understood. " Take the time to understand what you are doing.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hi Sheila
Look in the forums Hormone City. You can get a lot of info from there.
You'll also read that to take these with out getting blood work done to keep an eye on your liver & other effects can have very bad & lasting results. Many girls do self medicate.
But you can still get regular blood work done.

Don't feel silly ask anything.
And welcome to TW.