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Progynova versus Estrofem

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  • At present I am taking:

    1 x 2 mg Progynova (estradiol valerate)
    1 x 5 mg Provera (Progesterone) for 10 days at beginning of each month

    I am planning to switch from Progynova 2 mg to Estrofem 2 mg taken sub-lingually, because I have heard that taking oestradiol this way goes straight into the blood stream, whereas taking oestradiol valerate (Progynova) orally means it has to go via the digestive tract and liver, which is less preferable than directly into the blood stream. Has anyone any views on this?

    As I have got some quite good results with breast growth in 7 months from just 2 mg of estradiol daily, is there any point in upping my dosage to 4 mg per day?

    Amber Goth
    Amber Goth a.k.a. Kate Lesley general dogsbody FFG Transgender Fiction Publishers http://www.tgfiction.co.uk/ http://www.tvfiction.com/
      October 25, 2008 6:08 PM BST
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  • Typically the rule of thumb is if you are achieving the results you desire then there is no reason to modify the dosage. Estrofem is probably in a better formula for sublingual absorption. You should probably stick with the dosage you are currently at until you know how your body reacts to the new brand. Based on your wording i'm assuming you are not currently under a doctor's care so I highly recommend you consider doing so.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
      October 25, 2008 6:56 PM BST
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  • Hi Marsha,

    Thanks for that.

    In fact I have just 'come out' as a transgendered person to my G.P. - so I at least have some medical supervision now.

    I had a full set of blood tests recently, after a minor op. I had.

    I have just posted on the 'Blood Pressure & Spiro' thread a bit more about what I have been up to.

    Kind regards,

    Amber
    Amber Goth a.k.a. Kate Lesley general dogsbody FFG Transgender Fiction Publishers http://www.tgfiction.co.uk/ http://www.tvfiction.com/
      October 25, 2008 7:20 PM BST
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  • Moderator
    3 1652 3‚ 0
    There’s no reason why you shouldn’t take estradiol valerate sublingually (unless your brand tastes disgusting, but I don’t think Progynova does).
    Estrofem has very low hepatic toxicity, it’s extremely safe in low doses. Estradiol valerate is the next best thing, in fact it’s virtually identical and probably equally safe to use. If I was getting good results on 2mg valerate I’d stick to that, but by all means give the Estrofem a go, starting on the same dose. I cant really see any advantage though.
    I don’t know how much estradiol is actually absorbed straight into the blood stream when taken sublingually, but I always take that way in the hope that less is removed by the liver (first pass effect). The longer the tablet spends in your mouth, the better; you don’t want it to dissolve.
    Provera - I would avoid like the plague, it’s not progesterone, it is a progestin. I’m not being pedantic, there is a big difference in effects between the two and a whole host of common side effects associated with Provera. Switch to Micronised progesterone, ie bio-identical to human progesterone: Microgest, Prometrium, Cyclogest, or Utrogestan.
    xx
      October 26, 2008 5:09 PM GMT
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  • Lucy, that was really helpful - thanks so much.

    I'm getting some Estrofem 2 mg for when I've finished the Progynova, but it was interesting that it's also okay to take Progynova sub-lingually.

    I very much agree with everything you say about keeping the dosage of Estradiol as low as possible if I am getting the results I want (which I am). And I also agree about the Spiro – I’m posting separately on the Spiro thread about that.

    I have replied to both yours and Marsha’s responses to what I wrote on that thread – in fact I was stimulated to get on with my blog:
    http://ambergoth.wordpress.com/

    I don’t know if anyone’s actually reading it – I only seem to get responses from nutty people or people trying to advertise on the blog itself. If you do have a look – please let me know what you think – particularly in response to my last two postings:

    Gender Identity as a continuum, terms ‘Transvestite, Crossdresser’, ‘Transgender’, ‘Transsexual’, where I am now, etc.

    'Spironolactone, estradiol, feminising hormones, female versus male orgasm'.

    Both can be accessed from:
    http://ambergoth.wordpress.com/

    Thanks again - I'm very much on the same wave-length as you.

    x x Katie (Amber)


    Amber Goth a.k.a. Kate Lesley general dogsbody FFG Transgender Fiction Publishers http://www.tgfiction.co.uk/ http://www.tvfiction.com/
      November 3, 2008 8:52 PM GMT
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  • Lucy,

    What's the difference between a progestin (Provera) and progesterone? I thought they were the same thing. If I take Provera just for the first 10 days of each month, until my supply of it is used up, is this going to do me any harm? You think I should just stop taking it altogether?

    Lucy, did you get any of my (private) emails? I realise now I put my foot in the doo-doo on the Spiro thread, and also possibly here, by mentioning my blog, which discusses some of the same subject areas. Please accept my apologies - hope I haven't offended you. I was a newbie to transgender discussion forums, and I now realise the importance of sticking to the theme of the thread and not going off-subject (particularly into controversial and banned areas.)

    Can we still be friends? (Looks pathetically at Lucy with big doggie eyes...)

    x x Amber
    Amber Goth a.k.a. Kate Lesley general dogsbody FFG Transgender Fiction Publishers http://www.tgfiction.co.uk/ http://www.tvfiction.com/
      November 19, 2008 11:26 AM GMT
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  • Moderator
    3 1652 3‚ 0
    Hi Amber, I have been away for a a couple of weeks, so haven’t been intentionally ignoring you! You’ve no reason to apologise, and I will answer your messages when I have more time.
    A progestin is a synthetic version of progesterone. They are commonly prescribed to women in this country on HRT, evidence suggests that it helps to prevent endometrial cancer which can be a possible risk from the use of estrogen alone (“unopposed estrogen”). Progestins however do not have the same beneficial effects for M2F TS’s as progesterone, in fact they can have an adverse effect on feminisation (unlike progesterone). Since we don’t have an endometrium (lining of the uterus) we simply shouldn’t take it. Doctors who prescribe it to us are I’m afraid just being ignorant.
    I don’t think it will do you ant real harm taking it for a short time, but it’s unlikely to do you any good either. Micronised progesterone is what you want.
    xx
      November 20, 2008 3:37 PM GMT
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