I started self medding about 4.5 years ago and used Premarin/Spiro/Duphaston from InhousePharmacy. Progress was slow but steady. I couldn't get a pre hormones endo check but I was basically male bodied with light amount of mousy body hair that only needed lightly shaving for nights out.
After a year I was told that the gender clinics preferred Progynova so I got some off InhousePharmacy but to my horror about two weeks later black hairs started sprouting on my hands, arms, chest, legs. etc. I stuck with the Progy for another month but got so depressed with all the black hair that I went back onto Premarin. The two months of Progy then made the little boobs shrink and the Premarin never made them grow again so in December last year I asked for a blood hormones test. The doctors couldn't properly decipher the results but said the estro levels were that of a young woman and the test level that of a post menopausal woman, and then the endocrinologist refused to get involved with my case. So in desperation in Feb this year I had to have implants. I'm now on a self-med lower dose of Estrofem/Spiro/Duphaston until an endo cares to tell me otherwise.

What I'd like to know is (and wild theories are very welcome):

Has Inhouse been known to supply bad drugs? Are their supplies genuine?

I was told that there were some Progy that were actually sugar pills but sugar wouldn't masculinise so quickly especially as I wasnt very masc before.

Would there have been a good level of Premarin in my system? How long do prescription drugs linger in us?

If the Progy was say testo would it have acted so speedily? If so all the ftm should use it?

Could the Progy been genuine but being EST.VAL instead of ESTRO would my body have reacted to it so quickly and gone masculine?

I have only ever had one testicle and an ultrasound in Feb this year showed that in other side I have a 'bloodless lump stuck up theinguinal canal' I am waiting to have an MRI to see if that can clear up what the lump is as Dr Suporn says it needs sorting before SRS. The blood hormone showed high estro and low testo...is this normal after 3/4 years on hormones have shrunk the testicles and presumably reduced testo output?

As Progy is said to be super estro could there have been a reaction causing my testo level to shoot up to do he masculinising if in fact the first year of Premarin had cut my testo output right down?

Or wilder theory could the bloodless lump be an ovary or ovotestis? I had a vasectomy on the one testicle many years ago and the post-vas tests showed no sperm output so the lump probly isnt a testicle..or could it just be a useless one.

One last point..I mentioned the Progy problem a couple of years ago and also mentioned that Paracetomol just does not work with me. I can take three every two hours when i get a pain and the pain never lessens but aspirin stops pains in five mins and keeps it away for over 3 hours.
Last month I had the boob implants and the clinic gave me some paracetomol/dextropropoxyhphen painkillers that reduced he pain but didnt stop it like aspirin would have done. I was told that if Paracetomol doesn't work then it might be some enzyme problem that also is conncted to the Progy problem..Anyone heard of this?

Like I say any info about the genuineness of Inhouse drugs or Progy problems/ lack of progress with estrogen/ shrunken testicle theories are welcome .

Let's start at the top. First off you never mentioned your dosage and you are comparing two completely different forms of estrogen. Progynova is synthetic Estradiol 17b, bio-identical to women's natural estrogen. Premarin is conjugated estrogen, a synthetic made from the urine of a pregnant mare. Both have their place and significantly different dosing. Without getting into opinions about which is better, premarin has more clotting issues.

The reason you would be taking medications like spiro and duphaston is to block the testosterone so you can take a lower dose of estrogen. A medically supervised high dose of estrogen will sufficiently keep T levels down without additional medication.

The duphaston is progesterone and reduces the effectiveness of estrogen but some say it helps in filling out the breasts.

Now Dutastaride and Finasteride are for the most part your hair control medications, they block DHT which leads to hair loss on the head, and constricts body hair follicles reducing body hair for many. Did I say many? Yes I did, because for many gals the only satisfactory way to remove excess body hair is by laser or electro, just like for facial hair.

Inhouse is one of the largest pharmacies and I have never personally had a problem when I dealt with them in the past nor have I known anyone to have a quality problem.

I am sure everyone who self medicates and is in a rush to transition has believed they must be on sugar pills at one time or another. The fact is, it takes time to transition. Years, not days, not months, but years.

You would have had no premarin in your system, otherwise known as none. The frequency of dosing varies and all medication works like a roller coaster, you slowly build up to full dose and then it slowly goes back down. Most tablet forms such as progynova are taken twice daily. That is why patches and injections are more popular because they don't have to be remembered daily.

Progynova is estradiol valerate, like I mentioned earlier progynova is estradiol 17b in a synthetic form.

The testes produce the bulk of the testosterone in your body, so it sounds like you have a limited supply.

There is no such thing as "super estro". What happens with estrogen as it circulates in a body is estrogen receptors are filled with estrogen molecules. Picture a puzzle and only the right shaped piece will fit in any given spot, the estrogen is the puzzle piece. The body only has so many estrogen receptors. After all the receptors are filled, the excess passes through the liver and is passed in your urine. Some molecules are harder than others to process and that is where blood clot issues come into play. There are varying strengths of natural estrogen within the body, that is why lab tests show an E1 and E2 test. E1 is the weaker estrione and E2 is the stronger estradiol 17b.

Again you said you were on spiro and duphaston, premarin had nothing to do with your T going up or down.

Paracetamol is known as Tylenol or acetaminophen in the United States. Personally I don't like or use it. I prefer aspirin or Advil (ibuprophen).

The bottom-line is sadly some gals can take all the medicine they want and it will have little if any effect. You get what you get and if your estrogen and testosterone levels are where they are suppose to be, then the medication did what it was suppose to.

And a quick blurb on DHEA. I will not argue any health benefit with DHEA but I will point out logic. If DHEA is so great and can take care of the hormone requirements for transition, why is it marketed to everyone including guys that want to stay guys? Shouldn't it have a warning label that says this product will transform males into females? Or does this product magically take care of only the medical needs you "want" it to?

Love,
Marsha

I'm well aware of the differences between prem and progy but I am having an argument with someone who insist they are identical...and not only in action...it is they who say maybe I wasa sold some sugar pills hence my question about Inhouse supplies.

For quite a while didnt take Duphaston and the Spiro took care of the body hair.

Wouldn't estro usage and the resultant shrinking of the testicle reduce the testo?

So basically no-one really knows why just 2/3 weeks on progy caused such a dramatic male effect with me and why it took so long for the prem to repair most of the damage.

Really of course the doctor should have organised a full blood hormone test with an endo when I first said I had started transitioning.

Hi, I've still not had any endo input.

the blood test for the endo test last December was done after a full month without any hormones/spiro/duphaston at all and i thought that i would have no lingering traces of ingested drugs so the test would show my natural levels...natural that is with just one shrunken testicle...

the liver metabolising sounds logical but would that have given such a quick reaction?

If an endo had looked at the test results would he/she have been able to say 'that is too high/that is too low/etc on just the one test or is it usual to have regular tests to get to some 'average/typical test levels?

My main problem is that none of the doctors in the practice know anything about TS.

If it was a low estrogen issue you would have been having hot flashes a couple times a day if you were given sugar pills, so just rule that idea out. If you wern't feeling like a wet rag getting kicked around for days, you probably were still on estrogen of one form or another. Nothing is identical to premarin, thank god. Tell whoever to do a simple search online and you can figure that out.

Bodies do strange things, my friend started electrolysis to remove her gray facial hair, all her grey hair turned black after the first electrolysis, explain that one.

You said your T level was low, so yes the E and spiro kept the T down. Duphaston will not keep the T down. Duphaston is progesterone and actually makes E less effective, so going without for a period of time would only help your E level.

E and T tests are only the beginning of labs that should be done if you are on hormones. Complete Blood Counts CBC, Liver Function Test LFT, your clotting factor, Lipids to name a few. That is why it is a good idea to know what the heck you are doing if you are self medding and why you should involve a doc.

I just hear about too many gals that after short periods like one or two months, they are wondering why they don't have big boobs. Where in the he$$ are they getting their info to be that stupid, that is what i want to know. Sadly for some there are no changes, sadly for others their bodies can't handle hormones and they have to find alternative methods, usually surgery. So if you are on mones and you have had any changes, be happy.

Marsha

Carren, I'm not sure if your response on the duphaston was based on my original post or not. I originally was thinking she said dutasteride and when I realized my mistake I revised my original post.

Rose said in her original post her E level was that of a young girl and her T was that of a post menopausal woman so why she stopped mones to get a new baseline I don't know. If those numbers are accurate, i'm not sure what you are after because they sound right in the area they need to be. Once again, not everyone is going to develop as much as they hope for.

As far as would an endo have been able to tell if levels were too high or low? Sure, the only problem is you can have 10 endos with 10 different sets of high or low figures. You need a doc that understands you, not one that will just give you numbers.

Dani is so right about herbal stuff. In most cases for the cost of enough herbals to work, you can pay for prescription drugs and a private doctor. Herbals are a nice thought. Just because drug companies produce the various meds does not mean that all meds are bad as the herbal followers would have you believe.

To anyone self medding, it is not my place to judge your reasons for doing it without a doctor or endo. I hope after you have tried standard treatments, if results are not as expected, you go find yourself a knowledgeable doctor before you start experimenting or looking for cures on your own.

Love,
Marsha

I only stopped the hormones for the month in order to hopefully have my system use up or eliminate all the Estro/Spiro/Duph in order to get a reading of the then natural levels upon which to base a regime that would have been both effective and safe.
So the E and T from the test might actually be as good as it can get for me but perhaps not for any other TS.
Regular endo tests might allow a graph to be drawn with a line showing actual levels and one showing desirable levels for feminising...but then as we all vary in our original male hormone levels we cannot find a desirable level.
Then again does an MtF body need a certain level of T to remain healthy which a GG would not need. And would an FtM need a certain level of E to maintain various female body systems?
But as I can't get an endo's input its all academic and I'm continuing with a reduced dose of the three and watching that things don't go back to being rough and male.

Re referring to Gp/Endo withTS experience.
Our NHS doesn't work that way. if none of the GPs have no experience we have to move to a different area where there are knowledgeable GPs/Endos but where is such an area and what about housing etc.
In theory all NHS areas have Special Cases Committee that can fund out of area treatment but NOT FOR TS! no matter how desperate we get.
My lawyer has tried but its a brickwall.

Then try another town or location, Rose. Continuing to self medicate, for whatever reason will leave you still groping for answers and will be dangerous, possibly even resulting in your early demise.

Please also bear in mind that NONE of the participants who have responded to your posts are medical professionals. If you need advice on how to fix your car, configure your laptop or apply cosmetics, this would be the place, but you should be seeking answers to your questions from an MD. NHS might not provide you a referral, but as I understand it, private treatment is available in the UK. It will be well worth paying for.

Robyn,
Since Carren and I are the only ones that responded to this thread I think you owe us an apology because every post we made mentioned involving a doctor. We explained what different meds do but did not go into dosing. In several of the posts we emphatically mentioned finding a doctor or endo that knew what they were doing. You and I have discussed meds before and I can say all sorts of things about your knowledge or lack of knowledge on the subject.

So before you call us stupid, get off your high horse and check out the info we provided, don't judge our information on your lack of knowledge. Once again we always reccommended involving a doctor.

Marsha!!!!

P.S. Since we have had our conversation before with you doubting my having a doc or not, here is a pic of my estradiol lab test I got back today, complete showing TRANSGENDER diagnosis, doctor's location and labs location. For privacy I smudged out the names of myself and my doc. If it does not show up well enough for you here, I have it in the pics located on my profile page. Are you happy now? You don't know me well enough to judge what I do and don't know. A big part of my life is private. I have no problem with you doubting anything I say, but until you can prove it is wrong, please keep your opinion to yourself. Your statement attacks Carren's and my credibility in front of everyone here. That was wrong.




image link if pic doesn't show up: http://gendersociety.com/[...]asc=ASC