Water boarding What if?

    • Moderator
    • 252 posts
    November 19, 2010 4:42 AM GMT
    And we have...what? More than twice the population of the UK. People here feel disconnected from their roots, often. Thus we get lots and lots of Highland games, bag pipers, even Irish-American transsexuals with shamrock tattoos (raises hand). Many of us are looking for ways to connect back to "the old country". Since most of us have been living in this country long enough to lose all real ties with our European roots, that doesn't mean we can't participate in contests that folks across the pond invented. With such a strong drive to connect back to who our people were, I'm surprised we don't have five times the number of Highland games that you do over there.

    Z
    • 364 posts
    November 19, 2010 5:11 AM GMT
    Doanna

    Having been married and lived in Scotland for 10 years I thought I would add to your comments:

    The emigrants from Scotland and Ireland and their descendants celebrate old customs much more than the
    inhabitants of their former countries. Here, as in USA,Canada & NZ there are pipe bands and Scottish and Irish dancing in most
    towns and National Days are times to relive old memories. Burns' Nights are common and I attended a reenactment of one in
    Dunedin recently. They made me wear a Stewart skirt and I led the Haggis procession. I received comments on my nice legs (not a
    hair on them LOL) Fortunately I keep quite fit which helped when I had to try and do some Highland dancing.
  • November 19, 2010 8:34 AM GMT
    Allison,I used to dislike Chamberlain and think him a traitor but after reading more about that terrible period ,though not being a Conservative I find I respect him more;first,hadn't realised his government was responsible for the 'Kinder Transport' which admitted thousands of Jewishpeople from Hitlers' Reich to England-my childhood friends were a result of this-also his decision to go ahead with Spitfire and Hurricane production-AND the development of 'Chain-Home Radio beacons'-Radar -ALL of which saved us AND played no small part in eventual defeat of Nazi Germany.
    By the way not one jewish refugee was admitted entry to the US-not one!xx
  • November 19, 2010 8:51 AM GMT
    Is there any way in which the Moderators can be made aware of the fact that a vociferous Fascist is pollutung this Forum?xx
  • November 19, 2010 8:59 AM GMT
    I don't have a kilt. I don't like wearing male clothing.
    If you really want to annoy a Scotsman (which is very easy to do anyway) just tell him that you love his skirt!
    To get slightly back on topic I think bagpipes could easily be described as an instrument of torture.
    I do have some tartan skirts.
    I don't have any Scottish knickers, but I've got some beautiful French ones.

  • November 19, 2010 9:12 AM GMT
    Janis-am only half-Scots but love the sound of bagpipes!By the way,I love your skirt-AND those cute Scottish Tranny Regiments!Wow!xx
    • 364 posts
    November 19, 2010 9:26 AM GMT
    Very nice Janis but not a Murray one or have the green and blue faded LOL. Having watched every performance of the Edinburgh Tattoo for 2 successive years, I still like the pipe bands.
  • November 19, 2010 9:38 AM GMT
    Read somewhere that most of the so-called clan tartans were designed by English ladies-daughters of the regiment-Colonels'Ladies-that sort of thing.
  • November 19, 2010 10:14 AM GMT
    I know it's tantamount to treason for a Scots girl to say she doesn't like the sound of bagpipes.
    (I'll probably get banished to England or something!)
    Those aren't real pipes, they belong to my friend Fiona's Mum who has them hanging on her living room wall.

    • 1912 posts
    November 19, 2010 1:34 PM GMT
    Will Nina, coming from someone as far left as you, so wanting of government to provide everything for you; I can understand how you would think someone like me who votes slightly right of center, attends church regularly, has my own business, pays taxes, provides for my family, pays for my own SRS surgery and counts on government to provide nothing for me; is a vociferous fascist. So if that is your definition for vociferous fascist, I'm quite all right with it. Are you aware the term can equally be used for those that are the extreme opposite like you? Have a wonderful day.

    Hugs,
    Marsha
    • Moderator
    • 252 posts
    November 19, 2010 2:28 PM GMT
    I just love how that's always the first place that Conservatives go, every time!! "Oh, you are left wing...so you want government to do everything for you?"

    I personally don't want government to do everything for me. But I do want my government to have a heart. Many, many Republicans in the US have a well defined agenda, ending Obama's Presidency as quickly as possible. That's it. No real policies of their own save obstruction. Check it out yourself. Check out how many filibusters the Republicans have used during this Administration. They passed the record for a single four year term filibuster record months and months ago. So when you say "You want government to do everything for you" I say "Oh. You don't want to do anything but keep this Administration from "winning." Like this is some kind of game instead of people's lives.

    Aren't the GOP the same twits who think teh gay is evil and we shouldn't be allowed. And yes, I will say for the millionth time, you are voting against your own best interests. You are with a political group who wouldn't collectively walk across the street to piss on you if you were on fire.

    The GOP doesn't want to increase the minimum wage. But they sure do want to give tax breaks to those making $250,000 or more. Because those people suffer so damn much. The GOP wants to raid the Social Security stores, even though that is supposed to be off limits. They want to privatize medical insurance and overturn health reform. Because poor people having acccess to health care is a terrible thing. Let them die and there will be less poor people. Kind of reminds me of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal". Perhaps the rich should just go the whole way and simply eat the poor.

    Look at the deficit going back to Carter. It's very interesting. Each Republican left a much bigger debt than every single Democrat. Which flies in the face of what the GOP wants you to think, that they represent responsible spending. Obviously, the opposite is true.

    When you talk about what the Republicans have done, remember these pesky details as well. Their only masters are corporations and the super rich. They care nothing for ordinary people. One final note, the Republicans were all ready to filibuster against extending the middle class tax cuts if we didn't also extend tax cuts to the rich. Which would add hundreds of billions to the deficit. Yep, reponsible spending. That's what the GOP is all about. *rolls eyes*

    Z
  • November 19, 2010 6:07 PM GMT
    Marsha,your ignorance ,malice,stupidity and down-right hypocracy astonishes me.What do you know about my personal circumstances and how on earth do you think that attending church services regularly makes you superior to any body else?You smug,sanctimoneous ,sneering creep.You are a bully,a coward and a sadist-i spit on you and your filthy crypto-fascist politics;if you are slightly right-of-centre,god help your poor country.xx-Hope you fall down a big hole and break your arse,Nina-xx
    • 434 posts
    November 19, 2010 6:28 PM GMT
    Nina,
    1) refer to "Evian Conference"
    2) Radar...Christian Hülsmeyer in 1904 Reichspatent Nr. 165546 and 169154 as well as British patent (1904) for the first full Radar - called "telemobiloscope"
    -----------------------------------

  • November 19, 2010 6:37 PM GMT
    Donna-thank you for that information-Robert Wtason-Watt,I do believe?Anyway,very important technical breakthrough and equally obvious that i don't know as much as you-cheers,Nina-xx
  • November 19, 2010 7:08 PM GMT
    Lovely Tartan Skirts, But why must the scots always play the bl**dy awful bag pipes, they sound like someone strangling a cat!

    Fortunately in England we're not often assaulted by them except on the TV (Telly) and the mute button usually takes care of them.

    I'm also Puzzled as to why emigrants to the US need to label themselves according to their family origin ( Irish-American, Italian American, etc) I'd have thought by now most would have sufficient roots in the "new country" to be able to forget the distant past, particularly as many were forced to travel due to starvation/ poverty, etc. Just a Thought, Sorry to be off topic,

    Ok Back to the main thread, Marsha you ************* ************!!!!!!xxxxxx ............LOL.

    Marsha, I don't agree with your views, but I think Nina may be going a little bit too far..

    Huggles

    Becca
    • 1912 posts
    November 19, 2010 7:36 PM GMT
    Hugs Rebecca, I pretty much have to agree with you about the hyphenated-American nonsense. I am 1/4 English (probably breaks some of the gals hearts, either that or they are happy I'm not 100% English), 1/4 Danish, then a teensy little bit of every other European country. If I had to state everything on an applications of any type, I would probably need a whole other sheet of paper. So I can honestly say that I am proud to be an American.

    And as for bagpipes, I really have to wonder what the heck the guy was blowing on when he came up with the idea that was music. I use to fly radio controlled helicopters on a big field with woods to one side. Some guy would go into the woods and practice playing his bagpipes. I can truly understand why.

    And as for Nina, we would probably be great friends if we got together in person. I think I just happened to find her hot button, lol.

    Hugs,
    Marsha
  • November 19, 2010 7:45 PM GMT
    Marcia-you sure did,hun-and by the way-that was big of you.Marcia-please understand -this is not a personal issue-I just take certain things seriously-and I value my own country-though not as you do -in such an uncritical manner.I shake your hand and give you a kiss-have a feeling we would get on-AFTER the first fusilades!xxxx
    • 1912 posts
    November 19, 2010 8:22 PM GMT
    As a general rule, I don't talk politics or preach God to any of my friends. This happens to be the Polly-Ticks forum and I wasn't even the one to raise this topic. I throw in my 2 cents worth and never expect everyone to agree with my view. I believe opposing views allow for some compromise which both sides can live with. Unfortunately in politics today in our country, the parties seem to want all or nothing and the concept of working together is becoming a thing of the past. I believe that is why we see such strong controversies just like in this thread. We feud over which is better versus working together to take the best ideas from each side. I'm not sure what the answer to fixing the problem is. But it is sad when people as we have seen here, use ideology to stereotype if another person is a good or bad person, when the fact is their ideology may just be a minuscule part of that persons daily life.

    Hugs,
    Marsha
  • November 19, 2010 9:13 PM GMT
    I had always thought that water boarding was something you did behind a motorboat on a short board instead of water skis. It was so much fun as a child. So was snow boarding.

    I can understand an individual torturing someone for information to save a loved one. The problem is...what if they are torturing the wrong person? Also, governments should never be able to torture someone....indeed, a "slippery slope". I might, myself do it, under certain circumstances, but I would be willing to face the punishment for my behavior, to protect others.
  • November 19, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
    Barbara-that is very plausible -I have to admit!It's a ghastly thought experiment and reminds me of the 'Games' Theory' scenarios I remember in 'moral philosophy' classes at University-it irritated me somewhat then,and does so know-much heat and little light -as you probably have seen on this thread(for which-'mea culpa!)-has been created by it.
    I think what is offensive is that for a certain type of intellectual-these scenarios are diverting and mildly amusing abstract 'problems'-whereas people like me and some of my apparent adversaries in this thread see them as very much embodied in real life and history-hence get very involved and as a consequence get emotionally upset.I see nothing wrong with this-only that it creates dissention where there wasn't before.
    I have to say,then that i would be capable ,in the circumstances you mention-of ,if not torture-verbal threat or some other form of coercion -which comes to the same thing!
    Christ-what a bloody planet we live on-'Beam me up,Scotty!'xxxx
    • 734 posts
    November 19, 2010 11:24 PM GMT
    My view is incredibly simple. All the precepts I follow are short and sweet. And definately not ambiguous. I'll start off with an easy one: Thou shalt not kill. Four nice little words. Not rocket science is it? Why do so many find it so hard to understand?
    Then we have something many learn in nursery school: Two wrongs don't make a right.
    How about: Violence is never the answer? That's not a hard one either. I think you might know where I'm going with this...
    My view is that all violence - no matter how it is dressed up - is wrong. I firmly follow the thinking of 'cause and effect', everything you do affects your spirituality. It is impossible to 'get away with murder' as everyone will have to face up to their behaviour and what they have done - or caused to be done - in the fullness of time.
    There exists no scenario where I can meet violence with violence. It is simply not in my make-up to do so.
    Waterboarding is a violent act against a person. Therefore it is wrong. Simple.
    Rae xx
    • 2068 posts
    November 19, 2010 11:24 PM GMT


    Nina, you might well be right but i find that VERY hard to believe. Some Clans, such as the Camerons, Frasers and Gordon's are protective of their Tartans.


    Lol xxxxxxxxxxxx
    Anna-Marie
    • 2068 posts
    November 19, 2010 11:34 PM GMT


    Aye Nina, it was Robert Watson-Watt.


    Anna-Marie
    • 734 posts
    November 19, 2010 11:40 PM GMT
    • 1912 posts
    November 20, 2010 12:17 AM GMT
    Give me a break Rae, are you telling me if you had a partner and some TG hater busts down your door and comes in and beats your partner with a baseball bat, then turns towards you, you would not defend yourself? Are you going to offer to pour some tea and discuss what he just did to your partner? I think we all have a threshold, and some of us are willing to say it exists. I clearly stated above that as a matter of self defense I would resort to anything to protect me or my family, including killing the perpetrator. I see dealing with terrorist that are willing to kill innocent people, the same way.

    Hugs,
    Marsha