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Discoveries and Law Molly House

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  • A Molly house is an archaic 18th century English term for a tavern or private room where homosexual and cross-dressing men could meet each other and possible sexual partners. Found in most of the larger cities, Molly houses were a precursor to the modern gay bar.

    In 18th century England, a "molly" referred to an effeminate male, or a sodomite. Mollies, and other third sex identities were the precursor to the 'homosexual' identity of the 20th and 21st centuries

    The most famous molly house was Mother Clap's in the Holborn area of London.
    Patrons of Molly houses who dressed in women's clothing were called "Mollies", they would take on a female persona, have a female name, and affect feminine mannerisms and speech. Marriage ceremonies between a Mollie and her male lover were enacted to symbolise their partnership and commitment, and the role-play at times incorporated a ritualised giving birth.

    At the time, sodomy was a capital offence in England, and court records of sodomy trials of the period provide much of the evidence about molly houses.

    On 9 May 1726, three men (Gabriel Lawrence, William Griffin, and Thomas Wright) were hanged at Tyburn for sodomy following a raid of Margaret Clap's molly house.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      December 9, 2010 3:07 PM GMT
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  • Fascinating, Christine.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      December 9, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
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  • I have now learned that ''The Clap'' is a term loosely used to describe syphilis wonder if thats how the term was derived. and was Molly Clap a tranny.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      December 9, 2010 10:06 PM GMT
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  • I don't know if you recall a tv show from about 3 or 4 years ago Christine about the Bow St Runners called City of Vice. In one episode they encounter a Molly house run by someone called Princess Seraphina and it turns out that one of their own men takes another in a gay marriage. It was a very sad story actually because they end up hanged. In the 1871 there was a well known trial of two transvestite prosititutes named Ernest Boulton and Frederick Park. They went under the names Stella and Fanny. As anal sex could not be proven, and cross dressing was not a crime they were both aquitted. I have to say I love their story.
      December 10, 2010 12:09 AM GMT
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  • Newspaper Reports1726



    23 April 1726

    Yesterday ... Gabriel Lawrence and William Grifin were cast for Sodomy; and some others were to be brought to their Trial for that unnatural Crime. (Mist’s Weekly Journal)

     

    7 May 1726

    Wednesday a Dozen more Sodomites were taken and committed. (Mist's Weekly Journal)

    We hear that near 20 Houses have been discover'd, which entertain'd Sodomitical Clubs; besides the nocturnal Assemblies of great Numbers of the like vile Persons at what they call the Markets, which are the Royal-Exchange, Moorfields, Lincolns-Inn Bog-houses, the South Side of St. James's Park and the Piazza's of Covent-Garden, where they make their Bargains, and then with draw into some dark Corners to indorse, as they call it, but in plain English to commit Sodomy. However the Government having undertaken the Prosecution of them, 'tis not doubted, but strict Care will be taken to detect them in order to avert from these Cities those just Judgments, which fell from Heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah, whose Sons of Perdition, so much resembled by our English Sodomites in their Aversion to the Female Sex, rejected Lot's Daughters and lusted after the Angels, believing them to be Men. (The Weekly Journal: or, The British Gazetteer)

    On Thursday Mr. Serjeant Raby, Deputy Recorder of this City, made his Report of the Malefactors under Sentence of Death in Newgate, to His Majesty in Council, when the Ten following were ordered for Execution, viz. . . . Thomas Wright, Gabriel Laurence, and William Griffin, for Sodomy; Thomas Billings and Katherine Hayes for Murder; the latter to be burnt: But Joseph Treen convicted of Horse-stealing, Mary Scuffham of Felony, and George Kedger, alias Reger, of Sodomy, are reprieved. (The London Journal)

     

    14 May 1726

    Monday the following Malefactors were executed at Tyburn, viz. Gabriel Lawrence, William Griffin, Thomas Wright, the three Sodomites, who were conveyed together in one Cart to the Tree; John Gillingham, John Map and Henry Vigous, the three Highway-Robbers, together in another; and John Cotterell and James Dupress, two House-Breakers, together with Thomas Billings, one of the Murderers of Mr. Hayes, in a third Cart: Catharine Hayes being drawn thither on an Hurdle. (The Weekly Journal: or, The British Gazetteer)

    The latter [Catharine Hayes] was drawn to Tyburn on a Hurdle, and there burnt alive, without the Indulgence of being first strangled, as has been customary in like Cases. But, to strike a proper Terror in the Spectators of so horrid a Crime, a special Order was sent to the Sheriff to the contrary. She was fasten'd to the Stake by an iron Collar round her Neck, and an iron Chain round her Body, having an Halter also about her Neck, (running through the Stake) which the Executioner pulled when she began to shriek: In about an Hour's Time she was reduced to Ashes. She affirmed in Newgate, that Billings was her own Son, got by Mr. Hayes's Father, when she lived with him as a Servant. So that Billings murder'd his own Brother, assisted in quartering him, and then lay with his own Mother, while his Brother's mangled Limbs were under the Bed. Billings was hanged in Chains near Tyburn in the Road to Padington. (The London Journal)

    Catharine Hayes, as soon as the others were executed, was, pursuant to a Special Order, made fast to a Stake, with a Chain round her Waste, her Feet on the Ground, and an Halter round her Neck, the End whereof went through an Hole made in the Stake for that Purpose: The Fuel being placed round her, and lighted with a Torch, she begg'd for the Sake of Jesus, to be strangled first: whereupon the Executioner drew tight the Halter, but the Flame coming to his Hand in the Space of a Second, he let it go, when she gave three dreadful Shrieks; but the Flames taking her on all Sides, she was heard no more; and the Executioner throwing a Piece of Timber into the Fire, it broke her Skull, when her Brains came plentifully out; and in about an Hour more she was entirely reduced to Ashes. She confess'd herself guilty in part of the Murder of her Husband Mr. John Hayes, for which she beg'd God and the World Pardon, and declar'd she repenter herself heartily for being concern'd in it: She had a great Confidence of an happy State, becasue she said she was caritable and just in her Dealings. She own'd Billings to be her Son, and that his true Name was Thomas Hayes. She was somewhat confus'd in her Thoughts, and dyed in the Communion of the Church of England.
    Thomas Billings was the same Day hang'd in Chains within 100 Yards of the Gallows. (The Weekly Journal: or, The British Gazetteer)

     

    12 November 1726

    Two persons stood in the Pillory this Week for Sodomy, and were sadly maul’d. [Presumably these were Hihons and Coleman.] (Mist’s Weekly Journal)

     

    26 November

    On Wednesday Horner and Whale were brought to the Court of King's-Bench to receive Judgment, for keeping a Publick House for the Accommodation of Persons committing sodomitical Practices, which being a Crime of an extraordinary Nature, the Court have taken Time till Monday next, the last Day of Term, to consider of some exemplary Punishment proper for the Offence, and the Convicts, who are in the mean time remanded to Prison, are then to be brought down again to receive Sentence.


    3 December

    Monday being the last Day of the Term, York Horner and Robert Whale, two Persons lately convicted of keeping a disorderly House for the Entertainment of Sodomites, (as mentioned in our former,) were brought to the King's Bench Bar, Westminster, to receive Judgment, and each of them were sentenced to stand twice in the Pillory, viz. at Charing-Cross and the Royal-Exchange, to suffer six Months Imprisonment, and to find Security for their good Behaviour for seven Years.

     

    Exciting times lol

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      September 19, 2012 9:16 PM BST
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  • Old Bailey Proceedings - Trial Accounts
    London's Central Criminal Court
     


    20th April 1726
    Thomas Wright
    Sexual Offences - sodomy

    Thomas Wright , was indicted for committing Buggery with Thomas Newton . Jan 10 1724- 5.

    Thomas Newton thus depos'd.

    Last January 12 Month, the Prisoner had the Carnal Use of my Body at his own House, in Christophers Alley in Moor-fields : He was a Wooll-Comber by Trade, but he sold a Dram among such Company as came to his House.

    - He afterwards remov'd to Beech Lane, and there kept Rooms for the entertainment of Sodomites. He sold Ale, but he had it from other Ale-houses: He has often fetch'd me to oblige Company in that way, and especially to one Gregory Turner.

    William Davison and - Sellars thus depos'd.

    The discovering of the Molly Houses, was chiefly owing to a Quarrel betwixt Mark Partridge and - Harrington: For upon this Quarrel Partridge to be revenged on Herrington, had blab'd something of the Secret, and afterwards gave a large Information of a great many others.

    The Mollies had heard something of the first Discovery, but did not imagine how far he had proceeded, and what further Designs he had upon them.

    - By his means we were introduced to the Company, at the Prisoners Lodging's. There were 8 or 9 of them in a large Room, one was playing upon a Fiddle, and others were one while dancing in obscene Postures, and other while Singing baudy Songs, and talking leudly, and Acting a great many Indecencies.

    - But they look'd a skew upon Mark Partridge, and call'd him a treacherous, blowing-up Mollying Bitch, and threatned that they'd Massacre any body that betray'd them.

    The Prisoner was very fond of us, and kist us all at parting in a most indecent manner, Edward Sanders in behalf of the Prisoner depos'd, That he never heard any such report of the Prisoner before; That he was born and bred at Newbury, and was esteem'd an honest Man,

     

    [Verdict: Guilty - Punishments: Death]

     


    20th April 1726
    Gabriel Lawrence
    Sexual Offences - sodomy

     

    Gabriel Lawrence, was indicted for feloniously committing with Thomas Newton, aged 30 Years, the heinous and detestable Sin of Sodomy .

    Thomas Newton thus depos'd.

    At the End of last June, one Peter Bavidge (who is not yet taken) and - Eccleston (who dy'd last Week in Newgate) carry'd me to the House of Margaret Clap (who is now in the Compter) and there I first became acquainted with the Prisoner.

    Mrs. Clap's House was next to the Bunch of Grapes in Field-lane, Holbourn. It bore the publick Character of a Place of Entertainment for Sodomites , and for the better Conveniency of her Customers, she had provided Beds in every Room in her House.

    She usually had 30 or 40 of such Persons there every Night, but more especially on a Sunday.

    I was conducted up one pair of Stairs, and by the Perswasions of Bavidge (who was present all the Time) I suffer'd the Prisoner to commit the said Crime. He has attempted the same since that Time, but I never would permit him any more.

    When Mrs. Clap was taken up, in February last, I went to put in Bail for her; at which Time, Mr. Williams, and Mr. Willis told me, they believ'd I could give Information, which I promis'd to do, and I went next Day, and gave Information accordingly.

    - Samuel Stephens thus depos'd.

    Mrs. Clap's House was notorious for being a Molly-House.

    - In order to detect some that frequented it, I have been there several Times, and seen 20 or 30 of 'em together, making Love, as they call'd it, in a very indecent Manner. Then they used to go out by Pairs, into another Room, and at their return, they would tell what they had been doing together, which they call'd marrying.

    The Prisoner acknowledg'd, that he had been several Times at Clap's House, but never knew that it was a Rendesvouz for such Persons.

    - He call'd several to his Character.

    Henry Hoxan thus depos'd.

    I have kept the Prisoner Company, and served him with Milk these 18 Years, for he is a Milk Man, and I am a Cow-Keeper, I have been with him at the Oxfordshire Feast, and there we have both got drink, and come Home together in a Coach, and yet he never offer'd any such thing to me.

    Thomas Fuller thus depos'd.

    The Prisoner married my Daughter, 18 Years ago; She has been dead these 7 Years, and he has a Girl by her, that is 13 Years old.

    - Several others deposd, that he was a very sober Man, and that they had often been in his Company when he was drunk; but never found him inclinable to such Practices.

     

    [Verdict: Guilty - Punishments: Death]


    20th April 1726
    William Griffin
    Sexual Offences - sodomy

     

    William Griffin , was indicted for Committing Sodomy with Thomas Newton, May 10.

    Thomas Newton thus depos'd.

    The Prisoner and Thomas Phillips, (who is since absconded,) were Lodgers for near 2 Years at Clap's House.

    I went up stairs, while the Prisoner was a Bed, and there he committed the Act with me.

    Samuel Stevens depos'd, That he had seen the Prisoner, and his Gang at Clap's House.

     

    [Verdict: Guilty - Punishments: Death]

     

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at December 5, 2020 2:38 PM GMT
      September 19, 2012 9:47 PM BST
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  • We don't have it tough! Some people make it tough for themselves.
    Ok things in this world are not perfect for us "but" the only ones that can change that are the very ones that complain about things.

    Being trans or in my case transexual is not an afliction! It is a medical condition that can be and again in my case is being corrected.

    If anyone has read the above thread and is still siting there feeling sorry for themselves then get up off your arse and do something about it.

    Maybe you would have rather been born with no legs?? Maybe you would rather have been born in a country where your life expectancy is 13 years?? . If you have both legs and are older than 13 then count yourself lucky "don't moan about it".

    The trans world has moved forward and acceptance is becoming better everyday "but" the ones that are slowing that acceptance down are trans people.
    You think hiding behind a PC monitor is going to change things? Wrong its as bad as the Mafia in the sense that it is underground.

    There is a reason why we will always be 20-30 years behind the gay and lesbian community (I hate that word it is segregation) And that reason is because unless you make an effort and stop complaining and thinking the world owes you a bloody favour and get out in that big wide world and say "Hey i am me get over it" things will just stay the same in your life , niether will you help future generations , it is selfish.

    Life is what you make it! You are the one in control of it , you are the only one who can change it "and finaly" You are the only one who can change others attitudes.

    Be yourself! Be proud and then , and only then will your life get better.

    Many thanks for bringing the above to my attention Cristine.

    Julia.
      December 6, 2012 6:11 PM GMT
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  • I agree with Julia.
    A couple of decades ago gay people in this country went on marches shouting, "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!"
    And you know what? People got used to it. When I was a kid, being "gay", a term which hadn't even been invented then, was seen as bizarre, freakish behaviour. Nowadays pretty much everyone knows someone who is gay, and even in a conservative town like mine, there is no stigma, it's certainly nothing unusual.
    Maybe we should go around shouting something similar, maybe not, but sitting at home saying you can't come out because the world is against you is not going to do you, or them, any good at all.
    It changes nothing, it is basically your own excuse for doing nothing.
    We haven't had the need for Molly houses for a very long time. Things do change. I'm sure many of you will have heard the famous Gandhi quote:
    "Be the change you want to see in the world."
    It's not as hard as you might think.
    xx
      December 6, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
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  • Thank you Lucy.

    I live in a town with a population of close to 150.000 people. I have been here for just over a year.
    In that time I have seen maybe a good 50 or more different medical staff for various reasons.
    Everytime I see a different one I always ask "Am I the only Transexual you have met in your career? I ask that because they seem to be fasinated by me. Everytime the answer is yes you are. I cannot believe I am the only one , truth is I am not. I have met other trans people at meetings I have been invited to but their doctors are unaware they are trans because they are self medicating and living two lives.

    I have no time for people who complain about not being able to find work or walk out of theirs doors in daylight ect.

    I recently stated on a radio program that if anyone wants to stop me being myself they will have to kill me. I did make it clear that was not an invitation. I also upset a few people by saying why should we have a pride event? I do not have to go to a special event to show any pride. Ok it raises awareness but if the same event was held saying This event is for Gay lesbian bi trans "and" So called normal people The attendance would have been 70.000 not 4.000. People stayed away because the letters LGBT were used.

    I cannot change things much but at every oppotunity I get I will get up in front people and talk about what life is like for us. Wether that be the police or students or anyone who invites me to speak to them.

    Maybe we should all get together one day and ask a "so called normal" person to get up in front of us and tell us what their life is like? Virtualy the same I would say but without any prejudice.


    I very much doubt much will change in my life time , it is changing slowly but to slowly.

    We must be the last evolving species on this planet! The only difference is is who is stopping us evolving?

    Answer: The species.

    Take care and thanks again.

    Julia xx.
      December 7, 2012 6:08 AM GMT
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  • I just need to add a few points to the above. I could edit it but I will leave it as it is.

    Firstly as Lucy says it is highly unlikely there are people around who do not know a Gay person wether that be in the work place or social life or just in the same street as them.

    I believe that Cristine brought this to my and anyone elses attention because of something posted on the home page (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong Cristine).

    What was posted was basicly saying Trans people are having a tough time finding work and housing CRAP!!!! .
    I responded to that post then this post was brought to my attention.

    My response was any employer can't "not employ" you because you are trans It is ilegal.

    There are currently close to one million unemployed fit and healthy youths in this country "They are not all trans" and the reason they are unemployed is because one or two hundred are applying for each job. That also means they cannot get housing.

    Now for any thick people reading this I will explain my point.

    Your gender identity is not the reason you cannot find a job or housing! It is a national problem.

    I observe things in life wether that be on places like this or in the outside world.

    I am now going to tell you all some facts and you can do as I do to prove it "if" you can tare yourself away from the screen in front of you.

    Some Trans people feel insecure it is common.

    Why? Some trans people think if they go out everyone will stare at them "It is true" But if you go into town and sit on some street furniture for just half an hour and just watch other people. Everyone looks at other people! That is natural. Some people stare at other people! I say they have a boring life if thats all they have to do with it.

    Some Trans people assume others will laugh at them. Sorry to have to tell you this but if you hear someone laughing it doe's not mean you have to assume they are laughing at you "People do actualy laugh at other things".

    We are all born with the same abilities to use our brains (unless you have a brain disorder).

    I suggest the moaners start to use their brains and stop thinking the bloody world is again'st them "Its in your head".

    I have had no education since the age of 12 but it has not stopped me from useing my brain. Ok I am crap at spelling and grammer but at least I think in a straight line .

    In a recent artical about me it stated. Before I transitioned all my life existed of was work sleep eat! 18 Hours a day 7 days a week. It was not much of a life but one thing it did do was build my bank balance up. I had no time to spend my money.

    Now my life has changed and I can do as I wish. That wish is to have my own business , next year it will be reality.

    Ok we go through some **** and believe me I have had more than my fair share of it.

    But stop feeling so bloody sorry for yourselves and get up off your arses and bloody enjoy life. Stop thinking the world is again'st you because it is not "Its in your heads".

    I have gained the respect of so many people in such a short time being here in Ipswich.

    I did not do that by hiding away feeling sorry for myself. I made an effort to make new friends and meet different people.

    If I can do it then anyone can because I can tell you now for a fact there is nothing special about me.

    As I said I lost my education , that was due to me revealing my true gender as a child but my brain is always working and at 55 years old it is still learning.

    We all have a will inside of us. Use yours to find your confidence and the rest will just fall into place just like a jigsaw puzzle.

    Julia x.

      December 7, 2012 9:54 AM GMT
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  • I should rephrase one line in the post under Lucys.

    I have no time for "trans" people who complian about not being able to find work or walk out of theirs doors in daylight ect.
      December 8, 2012 11:01 AM GMT
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  • I think that is being a bit harsh, in some ways Julia.   As people get older, I think it would take a lot of courage to  ''come out'' their colleagues, associates probably brought up with the same mind set, built in social expectations, rather a bit of a suprise.Mr A.N Other suddenly becoming Mis A.N. Other.   A tragic example that of Lucy Meadows.    I really don't know.   I came out at 16,  Living in the same place since I was 14,   Very often wished I had'nt, or left it till I was older.   Also depends on having someone who is supportive and protective  to go home to.

     

      Some places in London and not so far from where I live, quite a nice secluded area,  Some knuckle dragging troglodyte moron, calls me a bwatty bwoy, tranny perv, whatever,  I am hardly going to retaliate, or make an official complaint, the fear of getting stabbed, beaten, whatever. repercussions, Yes there are laws,  but most of them apply retrospectively after you have been stabbed or beaten up.   I am lucky, in that I have never had to actualy go out and look for a job, or compete for one.    I wonder sometimes tho, now I have embarked on a new career, in a rather staid and somewhat closed enviroment, how will my past affect my advancement and acceptance.    I don't think we should blanket judge everyone, for their fears and trepedation

     

    In the main, the thread was just for interest.   there were more prosecutions for homosexuality after it was made legal, many of them affecting transgendered people before the GRA came into force.   Where by Transexuals were still legally male.
    Because even gay sex was not legally tolerated in hotels and shared accommodation.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at October 23, 2020 7:07 PM BST
      April 10, 2013 9:12 PM BST
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  • Cristine! I agree it is harsh or sounds it.
    You know a lot about me and I know some of your past too . It is not easy "But" my point I was attempting to make is "You cannot blame everything on your gender identity" .
    I sit in the same room sometimes with others and the constant moaning depresses me. I am sure I get invited there for pure entertainment value sometimes.

    I think you know me well enough to know that I do not lack compassion! **** it hurts me just knowing what you have been through and still go through.
    Anyone who knows me personally in real life will tell you I will help and support anyone "but" they have to be willing to help themselves too.
    I have devoted my time my own money over the past 5 years helping others and nether think of myself. I always put others before myself even if it means answering the phone at 3am just because someone needs to talk.

    I am harsh or sound it and I am honest , if I make a mistake I will say sorry and believe me I do make mistakes because I am human.

    I can count on one hand the people I cannot and never will get on with but I would still help them if they asked for help.

    I understand why I am not liked on the internet but in the outside world my life is different. Having a face to face talk with a person is a lot easier for me writing this because its not like having a 2 way conversation.
    I am not heartless! And for what my life is worth I would gladly give it up to save another. It is what makes me who I am and I will not and cannot ever change it is to late to even try.

    XXX
      April 10, 2013 9:53 PM BST
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  • Cristine! I just want to add something to this because I will be gone in a couple of days.

    I believe I have been given a gift! The reason I say I will be gone is because that gift just does not work on this website. So what is my gift? Communication. I get misunderstood here but when I interact with others in real life that gift comes into action. I have made it very clear to most people in this town that I was born a male and some are unaware of that still. An example of that unawareness was at the Star of Suffolk Awards . There was a strict dress code and I was talked into buying an expensive dress (well a dress I had to have an expensive one) . I did not want all eyes to be on me but from the moment I walked in they were. Even if I got up to go to the loo I was being watched.
    At an interval I was talking to a woman I have never met and a 21 year old friend of mine came over and said I was needed , the woman then said your mother looks beautiful in that dress "Yes she thought I was her Mother" In a strange way it felt nice but I did correct her and also told her I was born a male (she was going to find out later anyway).
    At the end of the evening a very respected journalist from the BBC said to me 'Come here you and give me a hug and a kiss, He didn't say it to anyone else just me and I got talked about for weeks after that.

    Ok I am uneducated or fecking useless at some things but I am proud of what I have been able to do , and that is educate others about gender identity and I don't have to I want to "To help others not myself".

    I make people laugh and when some hear of my past they cry , I touch people in ways I could never have dreamt of and its a good feeling . You are aware that my time is ticking away and I am ok with that because my life has not been in vain.
    I saw my doctor today and told her I am going away on Saturday and won't be back for just over a week. She said I better give you a check then! My response was I would rather have cash please, she pissed herself laughing and asked what does it take to knock you down? I responded 'A Bus! but even then the bus would come off worse.

    Before I leave here I am going to show you all something "It will shock you" I do not keep images of myself , and the only ones I have on any of my PCs are the one displayed now and one full length in the same dress "But" I found one passport photo of what I was 8 years ago.

    Tomorrow if I have time I will upload it along with the raw image that is on my profile. As I said , however bad I look now at 55 years old it will shock anyone.

    Stay in touch please when I leave.

    xxx
      April 11, 2013 12:04 AM BST
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  • Cristine.

     

    You put a lot of work into this . If anything I have posted here has offended you I am truly sorry.

     

    We learn a lot from the past but I have to focus on now and the future . My future is not much but others is important to me.

     

    Julia xx

      April 12, 2013 11:07 PM BST
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  • Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      December 5, 2020 1:07 PM GMT
    1