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Bravery/Courage or No Other Way

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  • Jane Fae's excellent article in the Daily Mail 'Femail' section (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2321638/Prejudice-Abuse-And-surgery-needs-nerves-steel-A-brave-moving-account--The-cruel-reality-feeling-Nature-trapped-wrong-sex.html) gives a moving account of what it is like for some transgender people - the hate, loathing, prejudice, loss of status, loss of home and sometimes family - but we all have one thing in common, we all transition despite the odds, so is it bravery and courage which allows us to make this remarkable journey or is it something which we just have to do.  Is a caterpillar brave and courageous in becoming a butterfly - no, it is something that is inescapeable in its lifecycle.

    Whenever I have come out to people about my past, the invariable comment is how brave or courageous I have been to transition but for me, personally, the bravery was trying to live those previous years as a male, knowing how I felt about myself.  Transitioning was just a release from all that pressure to conform to a role that was totally false to me.

    So, what are your thoughts, is it bravery or just there was no other way??

      May 9, 2013 12:52 PM BST
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  • Hi Carol.

    I don't think it is bravery or courage it is a need for most. I would say you do have to be brave in a way to stand up for yourself as a woman when others think you are not or think you are doing it for fun . Who in their right mind would put themselves through all of it for fun? I am sane and I know you are . To do this for fun anyone would have to be totally mad.

     

    I lost everything the day I put what few male related items I had in the bin and watched them being tipped into the back of the rubbish collection. From that moment I walked out of my door proud but alone.

     

    Now I have everything and my family and old friends are just where they belong in the past. My new life brought me pain and every emotion possible but I made it , I done it now with more friends than I could ever wish for.

     

    You should be proud of what you have achieved.

     

    I am really busy and cannot read the article but will later .

     

    Julia x

      May 9, 2013 1:24 PM BST
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  • I used to tire of people telling me how brave I was, I'm not sure that the word brave was appropriate.

     

    I took the easiest path when I started my transition, brave would tend to describe the more difficult or treacherous path.

     

    I think the choice to start transition shows backbone but bravery?

     

    I think bravery might more appropriately apply to someone who commits to a life in the wrong gender for the sake of others.

      May 9, 2013 1:36 PM BST
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  • I wonder if that (committing to a life in the wrong gender) is fear or bravery though Layla.  Could be fear of eternal damnation because of religous upbringing or simply fear of revealing their true nature to others.

    Edited to add:-
    If the person has discussed their feelings with other people involved and then still decides to remain as they were born, then yes, that would be a brave and courageous thing to do

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 9, 2013 2:24 PM BST
      May 9, 2013 1:46 PM BST
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  • Firstly, I have to say it was a well-written and thoughtful article, and I really warmed to her matter-of-fact style. I guess, like many things, there are elements of all your question Carol in most journies undertaken by trans people.  Thinking about Layla's comment, I don't see myself as being "brave" by living in the wrong gender for so long, it was more akin to a feeling of "just get on with it and stop complaining" that I would say to myself (this was when i actually knew I was trans. Before that, it was a constant feeling that the sums didn't quite add up!)

     

    Jane hinted at the bravery element in the article when she referred to the somewhat cruel nature (even if well-intentioned) of the process undergone by trans people in the UK and this is the part I am facing now- that "put on a skirt and make up and get out there" test. I wonder if there is really no other way? After all, once it has been established that you are not contemplating transition for reasons of insanity, why is there still such a potentially long "bloke in a dress" period? No wonder those with resources of their own go private.

     

    Sure, the NHS really wants this to be for the committed only. I understand that, but my above point refers. I wonder what the stats are for those who either commit suicide during RLE, because of abuse etc or give up, go back to living in the wrong gender then commit suicide?

     

    Before anyone tells me how wonderful the NHS is really, I have said a number of times that my experience so far has been positive, but it does seem to be like trying to ride the Grand National course on a Shetland pony! (don't know where that metaphor came from!)- and I haven't even reached Bechers Brook yet (but I have completely confused anyone who isn't British and reading this).

     

    Most people, I am sure, will say there is simply no other way. I described my future to the psychiatrist as one of terror either way- but the terror of becoming too old to transition being by far the greater.

    This post was edited by Emma Gee at May 9, 2013 2:16 PM BST
      May 9, 2013 2:15 PM BST
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  • Just have to say that I loved your metaphor Emma.

    Personally I think that taking cross-sex hormone therapy before transition should be allowed as this would make transition far easier for people (they did this back in my day I might add).  Besides the feminizing effects, hormone therapy also brings a much more stable frame of mind - and helps with bodily hair, head hair (but sadly not facial hair although they can make facial hair elimination easier than if T was still surging through the body).

    By making people do it without is simply inviting people to buy these products on the internet - and cross hormone therapy is, in my opinion, something that should only be done under the guidance of a medical practitioner.

      May 9, 2013 2:35 PM BST
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  • Ouch! Carol! Even after the doctor realized that he had taken the I crazy approach and added "T" to my already FSH and LH shot was stupid at best, The other doctor still was forced to stop treating me because of what they call standards of care. What happened that friday May 5th 2001 was I got my hormone helper shot, mixed with a small dose of added "T". By sunday morning at 01:00am I was in the emergency room having a full blown heart attack. My heart enzymes were off the scale. My heart was literally tearing itself apart. So, I know nightnares all to well, and this was in the US.

     

     So after the doctor refused any more hormone treatments, I had to go it alone. Luckly in the past 6 years I found a doctor that guides me in what to do. She had made a trip just to see me in April, and spent 3 weeks here doing blood tests and getting me back right, so doing it on your own is not the way, but, at times, what other choice do we have. She also did a study as I am what they call an outlier and studied cases like mine don't readily exist beacuse by the time they realize what treatment is needed, they have committed suicide.

     

     I understand that I will be questioned at length about this, as I was born dual/mixed gendered and altered by an opinionated male doctor. I only say this as he took pictures of me before I was "fixed". The Doctors that looked at those pictures back in 2001 all said what he did was a mistake. The damage done emotionally and physically for 39 years could never be repaid. I still consider myself a form of transgenderism. I do take a special HRT regiment that may be slightly different that a regular Male-to-Female transition, as my body accepts the estrogen without question and anti-adrogens are not need at the usual doses. My autobiography though incomplete will be reposted to one of my web sites soon. It maybe good reading for some here, maybe not. Either way, it also documents the hell I went through with church and spiritualism.

     

    Enough of the past, it just causes tears I don't need to have again, the future looks so much brighter! Thanks for taking the time to read this, I hope it hope it helps some one in need......

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 9, 2013 5:02 PM BST
      May 9, 2013 4:54 PM BST
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  • Brave?  Hmmm...not so sure as it seems so necessary for one's wellness.  You do what you must do in order to survive, make it in this world!  I can replace the word "brave" with many other choices words hurled at me (us) along the way though like "insane", "crazy", "sick", "immoral", and on and on.  But looking back at then and now, those words do not hurt, frighten, nor do anything toward my reslove to live my life the way it ought to be.  Period...so I would use the word "strong" in lieu of brave.  You have to be strong mentally to transition.  It is not the same as brave...

    Billie, your story is just so much "wow" as in holy crap crazy!  Gawd, hang in there...you got this far!  The future looks bright...gotta wear shades!  Mine is like Cinderella compared to you!

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 9, 2013 5:53 PM BST
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  • Thanks Traci! Funny you say shades. I wear them all the time outside! When I get done loosing the rest of the weight, I get some outside shots of me! Thanks all here for being understanding and being a friend! And listen to my ramble at times.....

      May 9, 2013 5:59 PM BST
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  • Billie, there are so many loving people in this site that are willing to listen, commiserate, and share.  We're all linked by a common thread, that we all align ourselves somewhere on the "gender f*cked* scale.  So in that sense, we are like a family!

    Best wishes always!

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 9, 2013 6:07 PM BST
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  • OK, gender f'ed...... I could take that places probably not in tune with what can be said here! Family? Yes, that is what I need, that is why I searched the web looking for the right place to chat about everything and then, sometimes nothing. My doctor said I needed to re-engage life and people. So here I am in hopes that I not only found family, but also a home. (Where is my bedroom? The Kitchen? WOW! I need the bathroom too! I just it all, don't I?)

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 9, 2013 6:41 PM BST
      May 9, 2013 6:20 PM BST
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  • Drop by the chat room later today...actually close to 5 or 6EST...many of the UK girls are on then and you can meet some!  Warning you, they are nuttier than me!

    See you later in chat?

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 9, 2013 6:38 PM BST
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  • SURE! I'd love to meet and friend more family! The nuttier, the better!

      May 9, 2013 6:40 PM BST
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  • Careful what you ask for Billie!  LOL

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 9, 2013 6:42 PM BST
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  • Awww, come on! Isn't this thread about being BRAVE? Courage? (I see dead people!!!!!)

      May 9, 2013 6:45 PM BST
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  • Run for it!  The Zombies are upon us....

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 9, 2013 7:04 PM BST
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  • At times I feel they know what to do better than the live ones!

      May 9, 2013 7:19 PM BST
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  • Well I have just had a chance to read the article and thank you for that Carol.

     

    Are we the most complicated people on the planet? If I was asked that question my response would be "There is nothing complicated about me' But in reality I do believe we are. All of our lives are complicated in different ways and even those so called "Normal" people have complicated lives too , but us? To most of the misunderstanding population we are classed as , strange , abnormal , weird I could go on with a very long list.

     

    As for bravery and courage well again I suppose we all have different ways of discribing what I call struggles. Putting the insults aside I have taken on my journey from male to female. I have been called  Amazing far to many times , There is nothing amazing about me , people want to award me for being me! No not having it , I tell them straight I do not need an award for being me award the ones that helped me become me. I started alone but after a few lets say misunderstandings I then got to meet amazing people.

     

    Jane Fae's story is not uncommon it is heart warming (take away the pain) Should not have said that you can't but it is heart warming.

     

    Some asked I noticed about suicide statistics! Yes another trans person commited suicide in the UK! It is about one a day "One is that all" Oh thats ok then theres what close to 70 million people here in the uk what is one less? Well that one less is another one of us gone and why? That word again "Ignorance" . I hate suicide I have been very close to it and it is dark place . I survived but I am a surviver , even with all of my stengths and others like me it just takes that one last push.

     

    We fight we struggle and we go through things others can only imagine so sod it We are all amazing just keep your award.

     

    Julia .

      May 9, 2013 7:37 PM BST
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  • I Understand all to well. It is a shame we can't reach those in time to at least try to give them a helping hand. My first girlfriend had her struggles too. She committed suicide at age 18. I just got up the courage to write her Eulogy back in January, some 30 plus years later. It is no joke, seeing some one laying in a dried pool of their own blood will tear you to pieces. Add to that the love you have for them....... It is just not right...

      May 9, 2013 7:47 PM BST
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  • 71
    An excellent article and some really positive comments from readers underneath it. This is great. It's in The Mail and will reach a huge audience. Thanks for posting the link Carol... I would never have seen it otherwise!
    I hope it educates many many people.
      May 9, 2013 8:54 PM BST
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  • I have removed this post and video link as I have no wish to put fear into anyone starting transition. It was about one bad thing that happened to me and does not mean it will happen to you .

    Julia x

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 12, 2013 3:38 PM BST
      May 9, 2013 10:53 PM BST
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  • The US?

      May 9, 2013 11:10 PM BST
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  • We're out of bullets here in the US Julia...our Homeland Security bought over a billion of them recently to use them on....us!  So you're safe!  (smile)  xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 9, 2013 11:13 PM BST
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  • Carol, this article almost has too many issues to count which makes it very difficult to reply with a single comprehensive comment. In one sense, it is a pitiful and negative appraisal of transsexuals who have transitioned in the past. On another level, it is about the fortitude and strong character required by transsexuals who fully transition. But this issue of a requisite character to transition raises the sociopolitical question of why transsexuals have to face any difficulties at all other than the pain and inconvenience of different surgeries. Intrinsic to the difficulties created by these social problems is the very vexing imposition of the RLE. And finally, Jane Fae mentions the psychological antagonism of anguish and release as a person comes to a realisation about their gender identity.

    I am not sure which issue to tackle first because whether someone is brave or not is not the only issue. Before someone can seek the courage to transition they need to come to terms with the disjunction between the reality of their own life and the external, and arbitrary life that has been created for them by others.

    Regards

    Chalice

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 11, 2013 10:34 AM BST
      May 10, 2013 12:41 PM BST
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  • I actually thought it was a well written article, though I wouldn't agree with all the points made. But the article did tend to suggest that you can't make sweeping statements for the whole TG world; gender issues manifest themsleves in many different ways.
    Chalice, you have a real problem with the whole RLE thing. In a way so did I before I started on it, it's hard not to be a little nervous about it. I feel it was a leap of faith, not brave, but perhaps just a teeny bit of courage doesn't go amiss. When I changed my name and everything that went with it and actually got out there and did it, you know it wasn't too bad at all.
    It is after all a means to an end, and at the end of the day you don't have to do if you don't want to.
    I'm not going to try and tell anyone how they should transition, but I would suggest that they take control, do it how they want, and basically just get on with it if they really want to live and be accepted as female.
    Also when reading articles like these, I feel compelled to tell others that not everyone suffers "psychological anguish" when transitioning, indeed in my case transitioning in no uncertain terms put an end to all that. RLE, everything that comes with it and after it, is not hell for all of us, not humiliating or distressing, and we don't necessarily suffer abuse... ever!
    Sure, sure, I'm lucky, must be blessed or something eh? Or maybe I just got out there, bit the bullet and did it, and found the experience to be the start of the rest of my real life. If you intend to live as a woman you're going to have to start one day.
    Your circumstances may not allow that, or the voice in your head may not allow it, mine did.
    It's there if you want it.
    xx
      May 10, 2013 5:49 PM BST
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