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The government proposes-: the killing/murder of a policeman/woman during the course of their duties, will carry an automatic term of imprisonment for life, (meaning till they the perpretrator dies) no parole or remission.
Whilst I agree, they do a dangerous job and i am not deminishing that, they signed up knowing the risks and get paid for it. if we are going down this road, should the sexual abuse and murder of inoccent children not carry the same penalty.???? The they are sick and can be cured, or the i'm sorry lot, don't cut it with me, Very often released, on a so called sexual offenders tracking register, they go on to abuse and violate children again. Don't mention bringing back the death penalty tho??
Any murder or deliberate taking of anothers life should carry the same Sentence. No Child or woman signed up to be murdered as in a job.
The 5 prostitutes killed here in Ipswich not long ago did not die because of their job it was because of a sick minded killer , he will not serve life.
The two Children Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman sexually abused and killed in Soham by Ian Huntley not to far from me did not die because of a job.
If anyone murders another with the only reason being to satisfy themselves or out of pure hate or whatever should be treated the same "Life in prison" And life means life .
Julia x
No tele's, no perks. I am an advocate for human rights, but do these people forgo their rights once convicted, to being treated as humans?
No perks Crissie just an empty cell with a bucket in the corner. From the moment they are convicted every right is taken away not even a vistor. The relatives of murdered people can only visit a grave and the victims have no vistors because they are in that grave.
I respect the police and all they do but as I have said on live radio they are just human beings just like the rest of us. Our armed forces sign up to do a job knowing they may be killed and as a very close friend of mine was killed by an IED I hope his killers were shot in retaliation.
Julia x.
I saw this mentioned on the news earlier today and I can't help but think that even though killing a police officer is wrong, is this not some how suggesting that a police officers life is more valuable than another person's life! As far as I am concerned, if you take a life, then it should carry with it the maximum penalty of life imprisonment.....regardless of who it is that has been killed.
As you mention Cristine, when someone takes on the job of a Police Officer, they also take on the responsibilities and the risks that the job carries.... the same way someone in the Military does when they join the armed forces or a Fire Man/Woman does when the choose a career that carries an element of danger.
I think that it is a dangerous move to sinlgle out killing a Police officer as being a crime worthy of a life time sentance when other people have seen their loved ones lives taken by the actions of a killer. The Police already have a lot of public relations problems in many parts of the country and lack a lot of respect to start with, therefore a move like this could cause them more problems and not only that, but it is also one step closer to making the U.K a Police State!
As someone who has had a family member murdered, I know how distressing it is to lose someone in this way. I personally find it insulting though that my Cousin's life could be deemed less worthy of a life sentance than someone who has chosen a career that carries the potential risk of harm or death. I agree the Police do a difficult job, but that is exaclty what it is....a job! Its a job with risks and if they feel those risks are too high, then they should not be working as a Police Officer. The same way a Fire Man / Woman should not be fighting fires if they thought the job was beyond them to do.
I also know someone who has comitted a murder and I was interviewed by the Police to give a character reference for this person. The details of the murder are quite horrific and I will not put them on here, but it was a crime that made the national news and one that shocked a great many people. The sentance she got was a minimum of 20 years altough many people have said with the severity of what she did it should have been life imprisonment. As I said, I will not mention the details of what she did, but needless to say that it would be highly unlikely any Police Officer killed in the line of duty would die in this particular way and therefore what makes the difference in the death of a Police Officer and a Civilian any more deserving of a harsher sentance?
What I know is that it is not simply the killing of another human being, which in itself is unacceptable, but the fact that the person was wearing the uniform. So the crime becomes the murder of a uniformed officer. There has to be discretionary law. For example, in this country assauting a woman is an indictable offense. In other words, the case is heard by a jury. The same with assaulting a police officer.
I support the government proposal. I couldn't possibly imagine any situation in which I would have to kill a police officer but could easily imagine a few occassions where I would not want a police officer killed. If I was ever in the later predictament, surely it would be expedient to know they had extra protections.
Was this a homework question Crissie? lol
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
The government proposes-: the killing/murder of a policeman/woman during the course of their duties, will carry an automatic term of imprisonment for life, (meaning till they the perpretrator dies) no parole or remission.
Whilst I agree, they do a dangerous job and i am not deminishing that, they signed up knowing the risks and get paid for it. if we are going down this road, should the sexual abuse and murder of inoccent children not carry the same penalty.???? The they are sick and can be cured, or the i'm sorry lot, don't cut it with me, Very often released, on a so called sexual offenders tracking register, they go on to abuse and violate children again. Don't mention bringing back the death penalty tho??
~*!*~
Nicola thank you. Personaly I think its a PR exercise by a Government that has alienated its own police force with cutbacks.
Maggie something I never even considered. but your quite right. Should the abuse of uniform/power be treated the same. I watched an old documentary a few years ago, about Derick Bentley, think it was, he was hanged, even tho he was already under arrest and in handcuffs when a policeman was shot and killed by someone else.
I'm not sure I follow the opinions being presented here. Are people saying that cop killers should get a low penalty the same as any murderer, or that all murderers should get a the same high penalty as cop killers? There were two young women police officers murderered recently in the UK. Were they just another two murders?
What I am suggesting is, I think I made it quite clear in my opening post. Is anyones life worth more than any other. The death of a police officer in the execution of his duty, protecting society is wrong but the ammount of young vunerable children who are sexually abused and murdered for sexual gratification per year is far more than police officers killed on duty. The murder of children is basically so the perpretrator can attempt to cover his tracks,
not be discovered in almost every case pre planned, Also enabling him her to go on and comit further offences of the same nature. The case of Hyndley and Brady, they were given life and then life meant life, Now the do gooders think some of these people can be cured and should be entitled to be released back into society given a new start with a new identity. As in the Bulger case, where one went on to collect kiddie porn after his release on licence. Society should be protected erring on the side of caution favouring victims, their families and other innocent children, not in favour of a convicted sexual predatitor so called human rights.
We have just seen one man sentanced to 38 years, killing hiding a young girls body in the attic, taking obscene photographs of her dead body. The judge said he WILL do the 38 years before he is released, so what will he do after being penned up for 18 years, put in an appeal to the ECofHR claiming HIS human rights have been ignored under the sentancing guidlines, he will win and for everyday he spends in jail after that he will be compensated for. Some aspects of human Rights law inflicted upon us by Europe are wrong, misguided and inept.
My attitude is, life is life. It`s irrellivent whose life is taken. They all have equal importance. I know the murder of a child is the most heartbreaking & immotive of subjects. I`m certainly not trying to minumise them. My response is purely on the subject of taking life. The amounts of deaths in police custody, in Brtiain alone is astronomical, & when you consider not one conviction has come of it. Is a poor comment on the British justice system. Also in a personal reply to you Chalice. (As tragic as it was for these policewomens families) The murderers deserve no stronger penalty, than the muderer of a home owner being burgled. A woman raped & murdered, & child murdered, A gay, a black, a white, a transgender. They have all had their lives taken from them, & deserve the same importance & respect, as a murdered police person.
Life is precious, & to take it from someone no matter who. Is talking all they were, or will ever be, & the possible benifits they could`ve given the world...
Love Daisy
No one's life is more than anyone else’s. i think the murder of anyone no matter who the victim is should carry the same penalties. The problem is that majority of society doesn’t seem to feel the same way. Someone earlier gave the example of the prostitutes. The murder won't get the same penalties if he had killed say an important political figure. Society creates a hierarchy weather people want to believe it or not. Those of the majority with money and prestige have the most power. Killing them or killing someone that is lower class are seen as two different types of murder. No one’s life should be seen as, more than important than others, but due to our inequalities in society and our social hierarchy’s in place in society this will probably always be a problem.
Yes more and more, Gracie Tele tonight depicting police driving around estates with machine guns pointing out the windows. Policemen with machine guns, and pistols and rocket baton launchers. patroling the estates in some areas.
I know we?er moving off topic slightly, but this goes back to the 80s & Thatchers reign of terror. The SPG were patrolling parts of London with armed police then, & many were subjected to stop & search, with often brutal treatment. It was touched on earlier, that as many as 400 people have died in police custody in the last 10yrs. i believe that is probably a conservative estimate. (no pun intended) Certain parts of south London, were practically a police state. Where often you were stopped whilst driving home, for no other reason, than it was aproaching or past midnight. So this is nothing new. The right wing Tories will tell you they need to give the police more power. Alas there isn`t anyone to police the police. They are often lacking in education, & inclined to abuse their power as it is. Unfortunately! The fact that there isn`t any evidence of police prosicution for the amazing amount of "accidental" deaths whilst in police custody. Surely shows already there is pro bias towards the police. Maybe it`s time to put a stop to death in police custody in the UK. This can be done by prosicuting the officers in the station at the time of death. As it is widely known the British police are a homophobic, rasist, masogonistic, boys club. Who close ranks, as they know if no one speaks, no one can be blamed. So blame all of them all, & prosicute the lot under conspirisy to murder. They use that often enough, when it suits them. TOO MUCH?
You are bang on Cristine, the police arent far away from striking and demonstrating themselves! It really is quite a joke on the demos I go to. Theyre gonna have to arrest and kettle themselves soon! I'll help out with the citizens arrests if I get the call.
I think all cases of "First degree murder" should get life imprisonment For those that kill a police officer during the line of duty...I think there should be no parole...ever!!
When someone kills a police officer, they are not only killing a human being... but they are also attacking the rule of law as well so the sentances should at least be served "consecutively" instead of "concurrently"
The question of whether the life of a police officer is more valuable than the life of a child should not ever be a question so the dilemma must lie elsewhere. While this question makes it easy to hold to the old chestnut that all people are created equal I think what needs to be considered is whether all murders are equal. It is extremely difficult to think of anything more horrendous than the killing of a police officer or the sexual abuse of children but there still needs to be an acknowledgment of the difference between the two categories of innocent murder and deliberate murder. The killing of a police officer could hardly ever be accidental. On the other hand, the life of a child can be taken without deliberate intent. The jurisprudent plea of 'Not guilty by reason of insanity' testifies to the fact that murders can be commited 'innocently' So the question of whether a police officer's life is more valuable than another person's life is an equivocation.
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
What I am suggesting is, I think I made it quite clear in my opening post. Is anyones life worth more than any other. The death of a police officer in the execution of his duty, protecting society is wrong but the amount of young vunerable children who are sexually abused and murdered for sexual gratification per year is far more than police officers killed on duty.
<3
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Police Carrying fire arms is not really the point here . It is about murder. This country is going down the tiolet and although I live in a diverse town with all races things are now out of control. I am not racist but this is causing a huge problem here. We have over One million youth unemployed and they are not only bored but to survive they resort to crime.
The jobs taken away by to many foriegners entering this country is taking away the future of our own.
I was in Merseyside not long ago and although I love the place things are in certian parts just so wrong . Good decent people who have worked all of their lives cannot get planning permission for a small thing like a conservatory! Yet stuck in the middle of their estates they have a great big golden onion where it should not be , it belongs in Bagdad or somewhere not Merseyside. I saw one estate that is guarded at every entrance saying no British! Er hold on this is Britian , the postman has to be muslim and even the police have to be it is like another country.
So as this has been taken off topic I will again point out that I have a lot of respect for my local police force but still say any murder should carry a life sentence and life meaning life , police or civilian , just any human life and no privileges for the killers they lost that right the day they killed another.
Julia.
Deminished responsobility?? should we not then ensure that people like this are locked up forever. It's a cop out. the last couple of examples of child murder, the kids were murdered because the pervert peodophile did'nt want to be held responsible for what he had done, Silence the only witness to his abominal crime. Sorry I ran off the road at 70mph and killed your kid I was so drunk???
I note on several occasions that when soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, its been put down to murder. Yet Afghanistan has been invaded. war was declared. yes when innocent civilians are killed its called collateral damage. I still maintain the extra sentancing proposed for the murder of a policeman on duty is political, A force thats been alienated by the government, its appeasment to say the least.
Some things can never be appeased but whether we turn them into positives or negatives should be taken with caution. I worked in Psychiatry before Teaching, part of my search for answers I suppose, and the criminally insane can be 'locked up for ever'. However, there was a book based on a true story about a person who committed a murder and was found to be insane. Then, while in the asylum, he used to write and over the years his writing became so rational that they had to concede he was sane so he was released. He literally wrote himself to sanity.
I get your point, and why you make it. And yet, we do live in a compassionate world and often forget to extend that compassion to all or sometimes use it selectively.
People can be reformed, so to condemn them would be, in a way, a false negative. Change occurs, and we must be the apotheosis of change, so to exclude others would simply deny our own reality.
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
Deminished responsobility?? should we not then ensure that people like this are locked up forever. It's a cop out. the last couple of examples of child murder, the kids were murdered because the pervert peodophile did'nt want to be held responsible for what he had done, Silence the only witness to his abominal crime. Sorry I ran off the road at 70mph and killed your kid I was so drunk???
I note on several occasions that when soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan, its been put down to murder. Yet Afghanistan has been invaded. war was declared. Yes when innocent civilians are killed its called collateral damage. I still maintain the extra sentancing proposed for the murder of a policeman on duty is political, A force thats been alienated by the government, its appeasment to say the least.
<3
~*!*~
I know what I wrote so does everyone else who read the thread, whats the point of keep copying stuff and reposting it people can reach a logical conclusion to whats been replied to what. . So many reformed paedophiles, have been released and gone on to reoffend. I think we have to keep this in perspective. I was not infering a cops life was more valuable than anyone else, I was stating a childs life is just as important and child murder by perverts is one of the most henious of crimes. Paedophilia is rampant.
Oh well I am going to break a promise to keep out of the forums because this subject needs to be talked about. I do not make a habit of breaking promises.
Cristine asked for Sensible and considered responses. I may be guilty of taking this a little off topic but my response's have been linked in some way or form.
There is only one way to reform a paedophile and that is castration! I have no wish to compare a paedophile to being Transgender or gay as there is no comparison but can you reform a transgender person or turn a gay person straight? No you cannot it is in the Genes .
So castrate them all is the only cure and any female paedophile gets what ever is needed to take away any sexual desires they have for the rest of their lives.
My opinions on Murderers are as stated above.
I passed through Soham the week after they found Jessica Chapmans and Holly Wells bodies and and it was a sea of flowers. I have never in my 55 of life years seen such a sad place yet so bright with colour , shops were closed and nearly every person I passed were holding a bunch of flowers , and more to the point tears running down their faces.
That small village was invaded by the press and TV crews from all over the world all because of one very sick man who right now is living a life of luxury , it is called at Her Majesty's Pleasure! Well there should be no pleasure for Ian Huntley or anyone like him , Castrate the sick minded killer and just leave him in a bare cell to rot in his own ######.
Julia .
So I have broken my promise so I apologise for that , but I could never harm another human being.
We all wish we had a magic wand that would stop what is going on...but sadly, we don't.
I must agree with Cristine ane Julia that stronger measures must be taken!
As for the punishment, I believe that parole is not a good thing because the incidence of repeat offenders indicates that it is not in the overall best interest of the public. The experiment has failed!
I have two examples,
1) If a police officer is killed in the line of duty, there should be two separate sentences. One for the murder of a human being. and another for the attack on authority of the State. Both sentences should be fully served out and NOT served concurrently...and no parole!
2) If a pedophile rapes, then kills a child then there should be two separate sentences as well. One for the murder of a human being and a second for raping a child. Again, both sentences should be fully served out and NOT served concurrently...and no parole!
As for the old cost argument about keeping people in jail for long periods. What is the cost to the public for repeat offenders? Staggering! The legal and court costs for repeat offenders are staggering! And what of the human costs to the victims and their families? Staggering! What about the social costs in having a fearful public? Staggering!
