Hi my name is simon, Im a Klinefelter patient i had been treated for testoserone imbalance since i was 16, im now 35. 5 days ago i started on progynova 2mg and i guess im wanting to ask other people out there how fast the changes are likely to happen. I have been told not to expect much, however i have seen on some posts that results can be quick?? thanks

Hi Simon

What results are you hoping for?

Taking an estrogen will knock out the production of testosterone that has ultimately come from the Y chromosome.

With a non-functioning Y chromosome you effectively become an XX persona. In other words, female. 

The results of estrogen administration varies between individuals but is well documented.    

Chalice Brendale said:

Hi Simon

 

What results are you hoping for?

Taking an estrogen will knock out the production of testosterone that has ultimately come from the Y chromosome.

With a non-functioning Y chromosome you effectively become an XX persona. In other words, female. 

 

The results of estrogen administration varies between individuals but is well documented.    

 

Hi Chalice,

 

thanks for the reply.

 

Ive been seeing the pshyc for 3 years now and mostly i was happy staying as simon, but over time i realised that there was more to this GID issue than i though. I love being a man but i prefer Female.

 

Klinefelter sydrome had me on testosterone at 16 years of age and i feel as though that was the wrong way to go. However it took me 10 years to figure it out.

 

I am very much looking forward to the female form and i cant tell you how good i feel after just 4 days on progynova. however i feel as though this could be the placebo effect. I have noticed less anxiety and i am very much calmer.

 

So to answer your question: the main thing for me is helping my mind join my perspective. i am not against breasts infact i love them and have my own breast forms and a  full swagger of clothes. I am married and she knows. at this point its going ok.,...

 

I guess my bigger questions are, is anyone else out there with klinefelter that was on "T" and has come off and started low dose "E"?

 

when this happened how quickly did the "E" start affecting things? breasts (keep in mind my family are all big breasts)

 

the softening of the skin, but more over the mind changes.

 

 

thanks

Hiya Simon.

I was born with Riefensteins Syndrome a form of AIS.    I started to develop breasts naturally at 14,

Klinefelter's syndrome, 47, XXY, or XXY syndrome is a condition in which human males have an extra X chromosome. While females have an XX chromosomal makeup, and males an XY, affected individuals have at least two X chromosomes and at least one Y chromosome. Because of the extra chromosome, individuals with the condition are usually referred to as "XXY Males", or "47, XXY Males".
In humans, Klinefelter's syndrome is the most common sex chromosome disorder and the second most common condition caused by the presence of extra chromosomes.

So ''effectively'' you do not become XX by going on an oestrogenic regime, you are allready XXY, by the very nature of the clinical definition of Kleinfelters. so in fact, the T bossters were prescribed because the extra x in your cromosone make up was effectively cancelling out the T produced by the Y

My own condition meant I did not have to take on testesterone blockers, they were already blocked.

At the moment you are probably in the process of the placebo effect.   Probably very similar to your own circumstances but I was never on Testesterone bossters. as soon as you abandoned the Testerone boosters, natural oestrogen produced will start to work, plus what you have been prescribed, but in your case it depends on what effect the years of being on T boosters has done to you. that will affect how quickly and to what extent the new regime will work and how effectively and how quickly.  

Hi Christine,

Thanks for your reply also, i found that very informative so thanks.

It had crossed my mind that the remainder of the testosterone in my system would have to go before i saw any actual changes. I guess i wont know how long till it happens. What happens after the placebo effect wears off?

im only on 2mg per day but from what ive read less is sometimes more?

In the recent past i was a drinker as i was trying to forget the things i wasnt facing. Since being on "E" i have slowed in my drinking intake and my need for it has dropped.... can this happen or am i changing my life therefore changing my habits??

I'm still intersted to know what imediate changes i can be expecting such as 1 week - 3 weeks.... i notice that everyone is different but they all talk about the 6-12 months stuff and not so much about the now.

Thanks Again.

Simon

Firstly changing your life,  exactly what it means your habits change, to suit and complement the new life. interests might not change, do not give up interests you had before to coincide with the new way you present or live your life. to facilitate societys perception of normal.   ie. do not take up knitting and dressmaking, giving up building engines if that your interest, interests may change in some ways and is only to be expected, you will take more interest in the attire and dressing that suits you, your personality.   Does'nt mean you will automatically love cooking.    Initialy you will/might notice mood changes. become more emotional,     The variations are so different from one person to the next, some wait 12 months - 18 months - 2 years to notice any significant physical changes.   As I said, it depends on the ''male'' making effectiveness of the previous male enhancing regime you were on. muscle tissue, etc.   Its not so much getting rid of the testerone in your system, its shifting the physical effects that the testesterone did to your body.     With Reifensteins Syndrome, the tendancy is to prescribe Testesterone and Steriods, masectomy if needed.   Not ideal if a person also has a gender identity disorder, that coincides with the physical and clinical aspects of their condition.  

Its not a case of less is more, or more is more, gain wise, more is a waste and dangerous.   depending on your health, etc.

Regarding my own condition, many GP's even specialists in the field of transexualism had never heard of it,   Whereas klienfelters is quite well known.    I spent years researching my own condition, needing to know why and how, even writing a rather juveniele thesis on it when I was 16.    The diversity of transexualism as a sub group is as diverse as humanity itself. it takes all sorts and everyone is different.

I saw QI last night a rather interesting fact came to light, if you shuffle a pack of cards, the chances of ending up with cards coming out in the same order as the first shuffle were 52x52x51x50........all the way down tox1 to the power of 52. trillions of billions. 3080 of figures.  like life, lol

Simon! I have read about this subject/condition and Cristine has more knowledge about it than anyone else here I am aware of , she has studied it. There is a lot of difference between reading and studying , or anyone else just using a search engine.

She has put it here better than anyone else ever could.

You have stated one thing that I am unsure about and I would not ask you in a public forum why you stated it but I will via email so mail me if you wish to know what that is , I am no expert it is just something I noticed.

Take care , Julia

thanks christine,

so where is this thing you wrote when you were 16? id love to read it.

It is trully amazing how levelled out ive become.

Before this week i had terrible sleep nightmares episodes during the night and just general dismay. however i wasnt depressed acording to the proffessionals. Im now sleeping through 4 out of 5 nights, im more focussed at work, i am tired but i think thats normal.

I do feel a sense that i want to look nicer. wierd.

im still getting random erections although im not feeling like the testosterone is pumping through my veins anymore.

I get a butterfly effect in my tummy when i think of the changes that are happeing i suppose thats me looking forward to them.

i wonder wether my body is producing any T and how much given that the testies are so small and the pituitary gland is somewhat not connected. Will E totally turn off the T being produced or does it join with it to create my bodily systems?

when the hormone is swallowed is it like iboprufen in that it is used for 4 hours then it goes away or is it a 24 hour thing???

i appreciate your replys on this.

P.S i lived in london for 2 years and it still remains one of my most favorite places in the world.

thanks very much.

Simon 

I am somewhat concerned, that, your, doctors, specialist and Endocrinologist, have not explained in full your condition, the consquences of following each change you have made to your hormone regime and basically your own lack of knowlege, out of self interest I would have thought a bit of research would not have come amiss.

All these drugs, hormones etc, are not designer drugs, to turn men into women, they were essentially designed and produced to aid women,  each change, the consequences and dangers, advantages hould have been explained to you.

http://gendersociety.com/articles/261/trans-and-sexuality

http://gendersociety.com/articles/231/gender-variant-people

http://gendersociety.com/articles/176/the-science-behind-reifenstein-s

http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7790/synopsis-of-the-etiology-of-gend

http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7805/heteronormativity

I still cannot get over the comment by Chalice,  '
''With a non-functioning Y chromosome you effectively become an XX persona. In other words, female.''

If you study in deapth the condition. the Y cromosone is the deciding factor, highlighting the ''intersexed condition'' a term loosely used to describe a variety of disorders of this type.   The 'Y' cromosone is not defunct, the problem is the extra 'X' cromosone

Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:

I am somewhat concerned, that, your, doctors, specialist and Endocrinologist, have not explained in full your condition, the consquences of following each change you have made to your hormone regime and basically your own lack of knowlege, out of self interest I would have thought a bit of research would not have come amiss.

Christine, they have explained to me my condition. i have known about this condition for 20 years. its only recently that i have admitted to the reality of my stiuation and started on a regime that suits my ultimate goal.

 

My lack of knowlege is based on the limited number of Klinefelter patients that are GID in some way.

 

My enrocinologist is renowned in this field as is my Pshyc.

 

I chalenge you to find another klinefelter patient that feels GID that wants to live a reasonably normal life presenting as a man but thinking as a woman who loves to dress as a woman and feels totaly natural as this who also on the flip side lives a very manly life....

 

 

my self intrest is what brought me to you. i have been researching this for 3 years. i have got myself to this point on research and soul searching.

 

What i dont know are simply the questions ive asked. such as imediate changes. And i think im well within my right to ask for such answers by fellow people facing the same challenges...

 

 

what i  really wanted to hear was peoples accounts for real life experience. These things my doctors can only speculate about as there is the doctor patient confidentiality.

 

 

I appreciate your opinion on this but you hardly know me?? how can you pass judgement on me based on 3 posts....?

 

 

I am not judging you, perhaps I misunderstood,   To be quite honest,  your right I don't know you, by the same token you don't know me either. we do get all sorts here, the genuine put up with my pedantics and lack of tact, lol. sorry.  but one thing I am is compasionate and concerned.    Anybody who asks questions, I automatically think of my own precursory expeditions, and am still mindful of just how many practitioners, medical and members of the psychiatric proffession are not familiar with many of the conditions that we present.

Simon the last person to judge you on this website would be Cristine! Take a good look at what you have written! It is somewhat confusing to most people if not all . I was going to respond in a similar way but I would have put it different than Cristine , as Cristine has more knowledge on the subject I guessed you would get the kind of response you did. I think an apology is in order for your last response.

If your enrocinologist and psyhc are so renowned is this field then go ask them , or ask the other party in this thread and they will google anything for you. I am ignoring your email you figure it out.

If yourself and your experts don't have your answers then I suggest you do not ask strangers to figure your life out for you , at least until you can learn to respect a very good and logical response , meaning Cristine's , she done the best anyone could with the information you provided.

Julia.

Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:

I am not judging you, perhaps I misunderstood,   To be quite honest, I don't know you either, we do get all sorts here, the genuine put up with my pedantics and lack of tact, lol. sorry.  but one thing I am is compasionate and concerned.    Anybody who asks questions, I automatically think of my own precursory expeditions, and am still mindful of just how many practitioners, medical and members of the psychiatric proffession are not familiar with many of the conditions that we present.

I'm sorry christine i guess i didnt see where you were coming from, im very genuine in this journey. Myabe some more information would help.

Ive known like most Transgendered people at around the age of 12 i knew something was amiss. I was forced into having testosterone as my mother and my Endro at the time figured that it was the best solution for me. I started dressing around 15 and as i got older the dressing became more prevalent. at the age of 28 i nearly told my family but talked myself out of it. i lived in london and this is when i built up the courage to feel comfortable in my skin. when returning from overseas i was convinced i was different. i lived on and off as a woman at home privately. i married at the age of 32 and 1 year later i came out to my wife. within that year i was seeing a gender pshyc monthly. i felt as though as i was getting older i was wasting time. It was recetly that i said i have to try something to make myself feel better about who i trully was. So i started E and i have never felt better.

as i said in my previous post there are very limited cases like me. So yes the endrocinologist can inform me of changes and has done so for all the risks and small things to expect. The psyc i see monthly and he also monitors my changes and informs me of things to expect.

The thing i find extremely usefull is the forums of the world as these are people living day to day with similar issues. The Klinefelter Syndrome is difficult to find info about Most people have the HRT however they dont have Klinefelter... Im yet to find somone who has the same situation as me.

I question the production of T in my body and i wonder if i dont produce enough will the E have more effect quicker....? this maybe a doctor question.

Julia - i appreciate your input and im sorry if i offended you. My situation is rare and im looking for help understanding my daily changes i have asked my doctors and they have been very general given that everyone is different. I will next appointment ask all these questions and more. But i still love speaking to people like yourself with real life experience. Am i wrong to ask this??  

again im sorry and appreciate your input on my tricky situation.

simon

Simon! You only offended me by your response to the help Cristine offered you. Your condition is complicated to say the least. Just please accept that Cristine was helping you not judging you , or if you have done then that is fine.

I am not aware of any other member of this website who has Klinefelter , but I do know the one person who knows more about it than any other here. As I said she done her very best with the information you provided.

Apology accepted on the understanding that , you understand you asked for help , so please accept the best you could have gotten (that does not mean my input) My concern was you being fed false information , or in simple terms from someone with no knowledge on the subject.

Julia.

Simon.

As with Reifensteins Syndrome, Klinefelters and other ''Intersex'' abnormalities, this does NOT neccesary mean a person has to have a gender Identity disorder.   BUT some of these ''abnormalities, do have a direct impact, GID can be induced during conception, pregnancy, due to other mutant genes being present during embyo developement.

I posted some links for you to read up on   Probably one of the most informative is the etiology of Gender in the general forums.

As to your T levels these will be monitored, during your course of treatment., and the initial dosage should have been based on your need. taking into account your T levels and general health.   Your 'Y' cromosone will most likely be generating and trigering a normal amount of 'T' your extra 'X' will be counteracting that, and thats why you were originally placed on 'T' boosters.

Hope this is'nt the end of this thread, please keep us updated and let me know if you found the links I posted helpful.