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why premarin and progynova not working on me

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  • i am male, 40 yr old, i am taking premarin 0.625 mg and progynova 2mg medicine, 2 times a days, i am taking this medicine from last 2 month, but till now i have not found any effect on me. no changes in my body shape, figure etc. although my stamina get reduces and my tool size get reduced but no other changes i have faces. 

    what should i do now,  as i want to get my figure like female, with heavy hips, heavy thighs and big boobs.

    do help me please

      May 1, 2014 3:31 PM BST
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  • Moderator
    3 1652 3‚ 0
    Two months is nowhere near long enough to decide your dosage is not working for you. You must be patient.
    More importantly, why are you taking 2 different forms of oestrogen?
    Premarin is horse oestrogen, and has several serious risks associated with it. I have no medical qualifications but I have researched this subject thoroughly. I'd advise you to stop taking this drug.
    Progynova is oestradiol valerate, very close to human oestrogen and is much safer. 2mg is not a high dose.
    I doubt the 2 different forms of oestrogen would counteract each other, but it is not wise to take both. Why not drop the risky one and double the dose of the safer one? But do get full blood tests as a precaution, to monitor any adverse effects on your liver etc.
    Full effects of hormones develop over many years. I'm nine and a half years on oestrogen and am still noticing very gradual changes. You might notice the most dramatic changes in the first 2 or 3 years, but probably not a great deal in the first 2 or 3 months.
    I don't wish to cause offence, but taking hormones without really knowing what you're doing is foolish, even under medical supervision. Do a bit more reading, ignore people who say they grew beautiful breasts after a few months, and once again - drop the Premarin.
    xx
      May 1, 2014 6:22 PM BST
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  • Please reconsider what you are taking. Find a doctor if you can - or even better a gender clinic as they will know a lot more. If you are unable to do so for any reason read up as much as possible. What you are taking is very unusual  Most people end up on a combination of anti-androgens and oestrogen and the exact combination depends on the doctor.

     

    There are some good resources online - try these ones for a start.

    http://www.edinburghtranswomen.org.uk/Guide_to_Hormones.pdf

    https://www.endocrine.org/~/media/endosociety/Files/Publications/Clinical%20Practice%20Guidelines/Endocrine-Treatment-of-Transsexual-Persons.pdf

     

     

     

      May 2, 2014 1:08 AM BST
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  • lucky dimond, thankx for your reply, so, if i stop taking premarin, then should i start taking 2 pills of progynova 2 times a day, as now i am taking 1 pills of it 2 times a day. any other medicine u want to mention that will work? 

      May 2, 2014 3:00 AM BST
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  • Hiys Anil

    I self medicate only take 2mg Estrofem but until I introduced a Tblocker not much development since taking it I chose Spirolactane introduced sowly I'm now off that as it reduced my TLevels and I started seeing results. I don't visit a gender clinic or my GP but that's my decision.

    Christy Bradford
      May 2, 2014 10:41 AM BST
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  • Moderator
    3 1652 3‚ 0
    Hi Anil,
    It's not my place to recommend your dosage, so these are just my opinions.
    2 tablets twice a day would equal 8mg, and that's more than the NHS here would be likely to prescribe.
    I would stick to 4mg per day for now, just the Progynova. Give it another 4 - 6 months. Take photos, keep notes, generally be aware of your body. If you really aren't seeing any changes after that then maybe go up to 6mg. Give it a couple of years before reconsidering again, these things don't happen quickly.
    Anyone taking hormones or anti-androgens should be getting regular blood tests, not to measure hormone levels, but to ensure they are not damaging your liver. 
    xx
      May 2, 2014 11:47 AM BST
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  • Anil - if you ARE self-medicating, stop it unless there is absolutely no other options.

     

    You are exposing yourself to severe risk of complications without the supervision of an endocrinologist.  Please have a look at:

    http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/resources/tmf_program/tmf_program_5.asp

     

    Lots of people do take that risk, and get away with it.  Quite a few do not get away with it, but in the end, it IS a personal choice.

     

    Best, Amanda.

     

    This post was edited by Amanda Bruce at May 6, 2014 5:07 PM BST
      May 6, 2014 5:06 PM BST
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  • For anyone reading this, please note that Premarin is a weaker, outdated method of using HRT...it also was used with lots of AA's.
    Now bear in mind, your cell receptors can only handle "x" amount of estrogen when the cells are unlocked by the hormones. If you body is utilizing a portion of the Premarin, you are in fact diluting the effects of the stronger, more effective bio-identical estrogen because it might be similar to adding water to vinegar when mixing a salad dressing. The cells will ignore that which it cannot use. Lucy is correct, 2 mgs. daily of the Progynova for a good six months and you no doubt will see whatever changes you're going to see...over time, they will become more enhanced...
    Blood work is an excellent idea...
    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      December 15, 2014 10:51 PM GMT
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  • opppsss...meant 2 mgs. twice a day as the dose...

    <p>Traci</p>
      December 15, 2014 10:52 PM GMT
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  • For goodness sake, if you are not an endocrinoligist, PLEASE stop advising people on what they whould or should not take.

     

    Or take the blame for when it al goes fatally wrong.

      December 16, 2014 6:36 PM GMT
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  • Great...so you'd prefer that those who are self medicating to continue to go down the wrong path? They are going to self med regardless, so why not at least offer something that is useful?
    If you are using hormones then you'll know what I mean...

    <p>Traci</p>
      December 16, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
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  •  

    taking oestradiol valerate, without any medication to block testostrone wont work on it's own to get the best results

    we are striving for , and taking large doses of oestradiol to overide this wont do anything other than get you admitted to ER with liver problems .

     

    also you need to have your Bloods checked on a regular basis , i appriciate in certian parts of the world this is a major problem , but has been said your playing with your own life here

      April 6, 2015 2:53 PM BST
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  • Sarah...you can take just the estrogen without blockers to get results.  Eventually the estrogen will drive down and eliminate for the most part the testosterone effect and eventually your body will produce only minimal amounts.  But it is also very possible that you might see faster results adding an "AA".  I'm am not a scientist, but if it were me, I would avoid using "spiro".  It's primary purpose is as a diuretic to reduce fluid build up in congestive heart failure.  It messes with your electrolytes and specifically potassium greatly.  There are too many bad things that can go wrong with it.  Sadly, it is prescribed by many and used by even more as an AA.  Think of this...if it were such a terrific AA, why aren't the hundreds of thousands male users with heart disease complaining about getting feminine traits????  There are much better alternatives!  It just goes to demonstate how little our doctors really understand or care about our community when they find the same garbage on the internet about what others use for an AA and then prescribe it!  Spiro is one such drug...premarin is another...ethinyl estradiol is the worst...and people still are written prescriptions for this crap!  Far too much "copying and pasting" by so called "experts" in our community...

    And yes, as Sarah mentioned, do not neglect medical care....what good is a female body if you're going to live your life in a casket?

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      April 7, 2015 1:55 AM BST
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  • Moderator
    3 1652 3‚ 0

    Interesting post Traci, and I agree with much of what you say. Fortunately in this country the more risky drugs that you mentioned are not regularly prescribed to TS's anymore. 17-Beta bio-identical oestrogen (such as Zumenon, Elleste, Oestrogel etc) have become the norm; this type of "human oestrogen" is much safer than Premarin and ethinylestradiol and no tests have ever demonstrated it to be associated with the risks we are used to hearing about such as blood clots and liver damage. Of course the packaging is still obliged to list the warnings and side-effects related to the earlier, riskier hormones, as they're all classed in the same group. But there is no doubt that bio-identical human hormones are safer than those that used to be prescribed here, and sadly, apparently still are in The States.

     

    A note about the need for anti-androgens:

    There is no science behind the commonly repeated mantra on TG sites that AA's are necessary for good feminisation, either to speed it up or to allow a lower dosage of oestrogen. Contrary to popular belief, testosterone does not "oppose" oestrogen, they have different receptors and testosterone does not stop oestrogen getting in and working its magic. The term "unopposed oestrogen" actually refers to the interaction between it and progesterone. Natal females taking HRT in the form of oestrogen alone have a risk of developing endometriosis (inflammation of the lining of the womb). To combat this they are often prescribed a combination treatment which includes progesterone, and this prevents the risk of endometriosis. This is where the term "unopposed oestrogen" comes from. That term has in no uncertain terms been hijacked by the TG community and used wrongly to refer to oestrogen taken without additional anti-androgens. Once again, testosterone does not oppose oestrogen...

    Quite the converse in fact: 17-Beta oestrogen, even taken in small doses, will inevitably reduce testosterone levels in the body. After a short time my blood tests showed testosterone to be below measurable levels; in other words virtually zero. Oestrogen could therefore be considered to be an anti-androgen in itself.

    I was over 40 when I started hormones, and your age may make a difference to your results. If you're 18 or thereabouts, your testosterone factory will be working overtime, so I can't promise that blood results will be the same as mine if you are at that stage of life. Your GP and/or gender clinic endocrinologist will determine the best course of action for your circumstances. Goserelin acetate (eg Zoladex) is now the "anti-androgen" of choice when needed, at least at Charing Cross, last I heard.

    So... if oestrogen doesn't drive down your testo levels sufficiently you will notice the effects of both hormones. For example your body will tend to remain muscley, but you will still get breast development, softer skin etc.

    As I've said, this is unlikely past a certain age; oestrogen will inhibit the levels and therefore effects of testo.

    It's also worth noting that the common advice we see on hormone forums everywhere - that AA's are necessary to allow a lower dosage of oestrogen, is misleading, without foundation and potentially dangerous:

    Anti-androgen drugs generally carry more risks than bio-identical oestrogen and, even if it were necessary, it would surely be safer to take a higher dose of oestrogen than to add dangerous AA's to one's hormone regimen.

    xx

      April 7, 2015 11:34 AM BST
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  • Excellent post Lucy...

    Sadly, too many girls are self medding and going with old protocols like premarin or ethinyl, etc.  Premarin required an AA because it was so weak.  There are many TG sites that are over 5 even 10 years old where girls are being advised to use premarin and ehtinyl plus an AA like spiro...they then order the meds via an overseas pharmacy.  And I've chatted with more than a few girls who have told me that their doctor has prescribed premarin and/or ethinyl in the past couple of years.  To me, that raises a red flag in that they are not being honest with me for no doctor would prescribe it if they had any understanding of our world today.  Or they are seeing a lazy or incompetent doctor.  Either way, it is dangerous and wrong.

    Yes, the bio-identical estrogen is immensely safer today...

    Thnx for your clarification!

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      April 7, 2015 6:34 PM BST
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