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DH is going through gender confusion

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    Hi Miranda, just to say I'm so glad that your husband has joined also :) Also just to say, I and I imagine the vast majority of our members don't struggle to find a reason to "sign in" as there is just soo much here. I sign in for different reasons most days, sometimes just to see who's posting what, sometimes to post a new topic myself that's been on my mind, sometimes to pm a girlfriend about something personal that I may only want her to see or just to catch up for a girly chat! Other times just to escape from the "real world" because here I know I won't, for the most part be judged or vilified for who I am. Any advice given or comments made to posts I have started or participated in is always honest, from the heart, and with my best interests in mind.....it may not always be correct but that's why they are opinions, but for sure they are always sent from the heart! I sometimes think the "S" in G.S. could stand for Sanctuary! But then again, maybe not as it does conjure up a picture of a lot of TV/TS people wandering around a fenced in field somewhere in the beautiful countryside! So you see Miranda, there are many, many reasons to be an active member along with your husband! Of course NONE of this would be possible without the huge amount of hours and effort our wonderful G.S. Admin team put in to keep our site fluid and active! So we look forward to seeing how you get on in the situation you currently both find yourselves in, and I'm sure you will find our site and members a great comfort, bye for now xoxoxo This post was edited by Linda T at August 13, 2014 6:35 PM BST
      August 13, 2014 1:43 PM BST
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  • I cannot quote or give advice from my personal experiences, never been in Elizabeth's situation.    I can only speak from what I have learned over the years, from others.   The fixation with having breasts and keeping ones appendage,   Now this I can relate to, my GF is a pre-op and had breast implants, perhaps one day she will get around to going the whole way, but she does not want to be a man sometimes and a woman at others.   but she does take the dominant role during our sexual encounters.   just goes to show how diverse and different each of us are.

     

    What does worry me in your circumstances is the effect of on off gender changes upon the children.   daddy's a mommy in the morning and daddy in the afternoon,   Taking this to an extreme, Elizabeth takes the kids to school and later picks them up as a man.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 13, 2014 2:49 PM BST
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  • Good morning everyone. It is hard to choose one indefinitely. inside I am a woman but I have work in construction and I have to think about my lively hood and being able to support my family. and to Julia I am not gay I love my wife very very much
      August 13, 2014 3:28 PM BST
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  • I don't see 'Gay' coming into it, if perchance you are a woman, if you fancied men, logically that would make you a hetero female. my GF presents as a female, logically that makes me a lesbian, but I enjoy what I get. being in love is the deciding factor, thats my opinion.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 13, 2014 4:05 PM BST
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  • Lol someone asked my wife to ask me if I am gay. And me being a man right now I am not gay and yes I 100% agree with you if or when I transition I will logicly be gay because I will always be with my wife
      August 13, 2014 4:11 PM BST
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  • Hi Anthony.

    Yes someone did ask your wife if you are gay , it was me. Reason? If you do see a gender psychologist that question may be asked . Crissie has virtually given the answer . The definition of a gay person is: Sexually attracted to someone of the same sex/gender. Whether or not you have transitioned does not really come into it. If you feel inside that you are a woman then the answer would be yes lesbian. Complicated isn't it? I was in a relationship with another woman for 23 years and always considered it to be a gay relationship even though at the time I was living most of my life as a male. I have always known I was not a male but just like you had for others sakes had to pretend , my partner was aware from the start of my gender.

    That is the only reason I brought the word Gay into this. So back to topic.

     

    You do have two beautiful children! My fisrt part in this topic I ended with "And never forgeting your two children" . I am very sure both of you love each other very much and you would die to protect your children. There is no need to die for them (I hope) but this will affect them at some point.

    You and Miranda have a lot to think about , your love for each other will see you through this. At some point you mentioned coming out if I recall (you did I just looked back) You asked for some insight? You need foresight too. Coming out is a big thing to some , you will not have to convince yourself who you are it will be everyone you come into contact with. When I came out I did not have to convince anyone I was me it came natural .

     

    I do truly wish you all the best and that includes your loving family too. You have an amazing wife just as I did before my partner passed away. Sometimes in life you have to make sacrifices , I have made many. Love is beautiful thing , cherish it , cherish Miranda and your children. Keep working together on this and one day it will hopefully all fall into place and have the one thing I wish for you all "A happy ending".

     

    Take care , Julia .

      August 13, 2014 4:56 PM BST
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  • Thank you Julia that was beautiful. And up lifting.
      August 13, 2014 5:10 PM BST
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  • There is no need to thank me Anthony , it is not that beautiful. It came from a woman. Yes I was born in a male body but I have pieces of paper to prove I am female. That is the crazy part in all of this , a genetic female does not have to prove who she is. I have genetic female friends who envy me , they envy my figure and my hair ect. At times I have to correct them , it is me that envy's them. They have the body I was denied at birth , but I made it.

     

    At the start of this I stated Miranda gave me a reason to log in here! I do hover my cursor over the delete my account fairly often , if I make it untill January it will be a miracle , it will be a whole year. I have been a member on and off here for 8 maybe 9 years.

    It is topics like this that make things worth while here , yes I have my friends here and their contact details but it is not the same as being here.

    Being able to help others in any way however small is important to me , it is part of my life. I could tell you something about yesterday that I done and made someone very happy but it would be way off topic here , she thinks it made her feel good but my final words to her gave me a wonderful feeling inside.

    If I ever do vanish from here Crissie will always be here for you both and many others will be too , you have witnessed that.

     

    Take care , Julia

      August 13, 2014 6:21 PM BST
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  • Thank you all so much! This has really been so amazing and I appreciate every bit of advice and support. And I plan to stick around for a long time ;) you are all wonderful. I'm trying to let Elizabeth ask what she needs and try to back off for her.

    But I do have a question for those who have transistioned....when it comes to employment, how has the change affected that? She is worried she will not be able to find a job that will 1. Hire her and 2. Pay enough to support us where we are right now.

    She currently works for an apartment complex but the owners are heavily religious Mormons, so she is afraid coming out will put her job in jeopardy and doesn't know how this will work for any future construction/maintenance jobs.
      August 13, 2014 6:33 PM BST
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  • It is very different in the USA, here in the UK we have laws against unfair dismisal if one transitions whilst in employment and anti discrimination laws when applying for employment. as far as I know in the USA there are a lot of members of the Gender society who as a result of transitioning are now unemployed.

     

    I have always been self employed here, so its not realy affected me.   It is relatively easy here to change ones name, and legaly change their gender on, documents, including passports, bank details and registations for health servces, taxation etc. 

     

    As far as I understand, in the USA in most states it is not unlawful to discriminate against transgendered people.   safety is another issue, in some areas of the UK we have the element that would quite happily give trans people a good hiding, we call them tranny bashers, I understand its the same in America where they call them rednecks.   So many things to take into consideration,

     

    If your husband is transgendered, there is no cure for that, other than to make the change.   (I say husband, because at the moment that is what he/she is)

    some people I know have resisted changing for years, eventually resenting their personal comitments, making for a gloomy relationship, not so much blaming the partner, just getting angry and frustrated with what life has dealt them.   Denied their real needs and asperations, through their own self sacrifice.

     

     

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 13, 2014 6:55 PM BST
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  • I know in the state we live in there are anti discrimination laws for housing, employment, etc for transgendered. But what sucks is that employees still can discriminate but say it's because "someone else was more qualified" or "you're over qualified" just finding a different way to say no.
      August 13, 2014 7:02 PM BST
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  • I believe gender is fluid. I hope you both can find what you are looking for and can support and love each other through this. We  are all here to support each of you.

      August 13, 2014 8:03 PM BST
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  • I consider myself furtunate Miranda. I have been offered 2 jobs here in the UK because of my outgoing personallity. One was with the third biggest retailer in the UK and the other was with another large UK retailer selling mainly beauty products and cosmetics.

    I am starting my own business very soon . Could your now husband not consider self employment? . That could be done at the time of coming out , that way clients/customers would only know the female. Just a thought.

     

    Take care , Julia x .

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at September 4, 2014 7:42 PM BST
      August 13, 2014 8:31 PM BST
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  • Miranda this is for your husband. I cannot find my own recording of it because I have not got the time to find which hard drive it is on . This is someone else's upload of the same song I was going to upload.

     

    Take care , Julia x

    This post was edited by Former Member at September 4, 2014 7:43 PM BST
      August 13, 2014 9:26 PM BST
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  • I have another question if that ok. I'm reading stories people have written as wives who have stayed in this situation. If Elizabeth becomes Elizabeth legally, will we have to divorce? And then in CA would it be a gay marriage to be remarried?
      August 14, 2014 5:04 AM BST
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  • Perhaps someone in the USA could answer this, in the UK, one can remain married, BUT they do not get legal recognition of their new gender, its rather confusng because you can still have your passport and other documents in a female gender identity, but if you make aplication to the Gender recognition Panel to have the gender changed on your birth certificate, they issue a temporay certificate of recognition, but one has to divorce to obtain the full permananant certificate and get a new birth certificate.   This then changes other entitlements, to a state pension early entitlement as opposed to a males entitlement.

     

    Not sure if they issue new birth certificates in the USA, or if its only applicable to certain states.   I don't know what the federal policy is.

     

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 14, 2014 10:58 AM BST
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  • California
    Transgender
    Law 101
    A Reference Guide for California
    Lawyers and Advocates
    © June 2004, April 2006
    Transgender Law Center
    ADVOCATING FOR TRANSEXUALS

     

    California Transgender Law 101
    I. Identity Documents
    A. State of the law
    • Driver’s License – name may be changed without a court order. Gender marker may be
    changed without applicant having undergone any form of hormone or surgical treatment.
    Medical service provider must sign DMV form 328. People under the age of 18 will need
    parental support to apply unless person is an emancipated minor. (Attachment A – DL 328)
    • Social Security Number – name and gender marker may be changed with appropriate
    supporting documentation. In the past, this documentation did not require a court ordered
    name change. As of late 2005, it seems the policy has changed. Change must be done at
    social security office. (Attachment B – info from SSA website about change of name and
    gender)
    • Common Law Name Change – while this method of changing a person’s name is falling
    quickly into disfavor due to concerns about identity fraud, it theoretically remains a
    recognized method of a legal name change. (Attachment C – Opinion of Attorney General
    on Common Law Name Changes, June 9, 2000)
    • Court Ordered Name Change -- allowed under California law (California Code of Civil
    Procedure sec. 1275 et seq.). No court can ask if the petitioner has undergone any medical
    procedure prior to requesting a change of name as no such requirement exists under
    California law. People under the age of 18 will need parental support to apply unless person
    is an emancipated minor. Links to California court forms NC-100, NC-110, NC-120, NC-130
    (additional forms necessary if a minor) are available at www.transgenderlawcenter.org.
    (Attachment D – model P&As in response to request for proof of medical procedure)
    • “Legalizing” Gender – California allows anyone born in California to change the gender
    marker on a California birth certificate with an appropriate court order (California Health and
    Safety Code sec 103425 et seq). While the statute explicitly applies to people born in
    California, equitable jurisdiction has been found to give courts authority to grant change of
    gender for people born outside of California. Some restrictions apply. (Attachment E –
    model P&As for equitable jurisdiction claims)
    • Birth Certificate – name and gender marker may be changed pursuant to a court order. Old
    birth certificate is sealed and new one is issued (California Health and Safety Code sec
    103425 et seq). (Attachment F – CA Dept of Vital Records Publication on Birth
    Certificate Change)
    • Passport – name may be changed either with a court order or proof that the person has been
    using the name for the past five years (this last route to a name change seems to be a
    consistent practice, but no written policy seems to confirm it). Passport office has policy requiring “completed sex reassignment surgery” for issuance of a 10 year passport. No clear
    guidance on what this phrase means. (Attachment G – Passport Bulletin 92-22 only known
    written policy providing guidance to Passport Agents)
    • Selective Service – transgender men seeking government support for programs like
    educational loans will need to get a waiver of selective service filing requirement. This can
    be done through submitting a Request for Status Information Letter available at
    www.sss.gov/PDFs/SILForm.pdf.. (Attachment H – Request for Status Information
    Letter)
    • Immigration Service Records and Documents -- green card, visa, employment authorization,
    and/or naturalization certificate. All of these records can be changed. However, some
    confusion exists around what supporting documentation a person would need to do so. (See
    attachment N for more information.)
    • Non-government records (bank, credit cards, etc.) – each company will have its own policy.
    Many institutions are interpreting the Patriot Act to require them to only change the name on
    an account if the account holder produces a court ordered name change.

     

    an extract if you message me your email adress I will send you the full PDF file (162 pages)

     

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncdsv.org%2Fimages%2Fca_trans_law_101.pdf&ei=Q-vsU8HAFcuy7AbnxIHYAw&usg=AFQjCNF-6vMtrB4_4qPQiD9AkehEZ-yTTw&bvm=bv.72938740,d.ZGU

     

    OR:-   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects_of_transsexualism_in_the_United_States

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at August 14, 2014 10:57 PM BST
      August 14, 2014 5:49 PM BST
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  • Hi Miranda and Elizabeth-

     

    I am also not qualified to advise you and Elizabeth, but I have some very long term experiences in these matters that I will share with you to think about.  This is a critical juncture in your relationship and things need to be carefully thought through. 

     

    I have been dressing for more than 40 years, and my wife and I have been happily married for 54 years. We have an exceptionally loving, caring and communicative relationship. She has known about my feminine side for 25 years, and does not wish to participate in any aspect of my dressing up or feminine side. She agrees to a space in our house where I can do this and she is aware of the times I go to Tiffany Club meetings or to dances that they sponsor. We talk about everything a lot, especially when she discovered my female activities. This was a slow process, naturally, with some bumps, but cool heads, unheated debate, analysis and resolution has led to a life which for both of us is exceptionally enriched and fulfilling.  She still loves me and I love her.  

     

    There were compromises along this path. My choice would be to be a full time lady, but this would pain my wife. She had rather I be the dashing young man that she originally met. In other areas, there have been other well thought out compromises, but the just described was the most important.  Some other compromises to consider, especially for Elizabeth.  First both of you should realize that people are a rainbow of gradations with respect to their sexual orientation, and this is the way it should be in a free society.  I am on the end of the spectrum where I decided long ago that I did not want to have sex realighnment surgery or to grow large breasts. To me this was just too final, my choice. This compromise was made not only due to the finality aspect, but I also wanted to be able to go to the beach with my family in a totally happy circumstance as well as do other things in manly attire.  I have a healthy sexual urge for men, but I decided after much thought and analysis that a real man could make life very complicating.  So I use other means.  

     

    I have seen so many MTF people on this site and other places, and one thing is clear to me; such people seem to me to always move forward to various degrees of conversion to being female. The rainbow is always there. Bless it. I have also observed a rainbow of acceptances from wifes from the termination of relationships to full and joyful participation in the various sexual facets. Another thing that I have observed on the part of MTF people is that they have this urgency to fullfil their womanhood as fast as possible.  I have found that the happiest conclusions come from lots of thought and analysis, making compromises and proceeding in an enlightened way.

     

    I will, actually, give one piece of advice. If I were Miranda, I would seek professional help to determine where on the sexuallity spectrum you fit. To Elizabeth, please go slowly with everything and think about what you are going to do about your precious wife, children, job, and negotiating in public so that you are happy.

     

    Miranda, you are a marvel to me.

    Hugs to you both, and with my best thoughts.

    Jacqueline

      August 14, 2014 6:34 PM BST
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  • Thank you Jacqueline, we are taking this whole prosses slow and we both are going to therapy and talking and thinking about our future by reading ca labor laws and we are pretty secured by the state of California when it comes to situations like this. But we are be very patient with everything.
      August 14, 2014 7:09 PM BST
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  • Thank you very much :) we are trying to find a therapist now. Hopefully dh can be seen by next week. I truly appreciate all the advice and support! I can't even begin to express it.
      August 14, 2014 10:34 PM BST
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  • Huh, I kept refreshing all day but just saw your comment honey. That's weird...maybe because I refreshed on page 1 and then my comment moved me to page 2.
      August 14, 2014 11:09 PM BST
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  • It has gone quiet!!!!!!!! Is that a good sign Miranda? I hope you are both keeping well and things are going ok for you both and your children. The no news is good news is not always true but I sincerely hope it is all good.

     

    You all take care , Julia xx

      August 16, 2014 10:31 AM BST
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  • Hope you are both doing well. x hugs

      August 16, 2014 4:10 PM BST
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  • Sorry everyone. Its been a crazy busy week for the both of us. And I have an appointment with a gender theopist on Thursday we came out to her parent and some of our closest friends and everyone so far is being really understanding and supportive
      August 17, 2014 9:32 AM BST
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  • To the both of you.

    Thank you for letting us know and there is no need to be sorry. When Miranda came here with her first post you have noticed that there have been some members here who care.

    My first thought when it went quiet was Crissie's post about the laws is either consuming your time or it threw you both into a state of shock. Crissie will give you the answers on many things but law is her thing , if she does not know the answer she will find it. I know because I have read her posts and links it is scary , it is also the reallity. I think Crissie would agree if I say take it slowly , it is a lot to take in and think about where the law is concerned .

     

    So take your time and please never forget that Mirnada entered our lives followed by the rest of your family , all we done is our best . Just a small update and nothing has to be to personal just to let us know you are ok every now and then will be just fine.

    I am pleased you have both had the courage to tell some family and  close friends and hope you keep on getting the support from them.

     

    Take care and thank you for your response from your far away friends here at GS . Julia xx

      August 17, 2014 11:55 AM BST
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