And I have thought this through. She wants to transition and will do it eventually anyways. I would rather it be while our children are young and won't remember it any other way. They will have a better parents than the grumpy short tempered one they have now. She's still a great dad but her attitude is completely different since coming out than she was before and if she gets shoved back in the metaphorical closet she will probably be worse. And I know I have wanted to divorce Anthony for a few years now over the lies and secrecy of this and his general moodiness and attitude. So this is my last ditch effort to stay since all the reasons I want to leave surrounded this secret. To say I haven't thought this through or don't know what I am doing is an insult. And I am not going to stay here to be insulted and be called a liar.

Miranda, please read my post again....I said that I think that all this WAS TRUE!
I said that I DON'T doubt a word that you have said!
This post was edited by Linda T at September 8, 2014 10:49 PM BST

Oh crap! I meant Julia. I'm sorry Linda!

It's okay Miranda, just wanted you to know, but don't go!
Nobody doubts your honesty here, it's just that, by ANY standards, this is real quick!
I have sent you a couple of P.M.s xxx

Miranda, i am so sorry. I've read a lot of post on here. And have been cringing. It must feel like every one is ganging up on you. Some strong opinions on her, they have the most caring if intentions i can promise you. I can totally understand. It's been a very difficult time for you and only the two of you are there. We arnt. Please try not to take any of this as personal attacks on you. It is only from concern. No one wants any one to make a mistake. You must follow your own path. Please be careful tho. But above all. Follow you heart. Be guided by you own thoughts and feelings. Love to both of you. I wish you ever happiness, and good fortune. You are an amazing woman, i hope every thing works out to be beautiful. Xx

http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/therapy.htm

 

This makes a good read Miranda. If you think I have insulted you you are wrong. As for a liar? No I have not called you a liar.

My concerns and others here are about the speed this has happened , it does make unbelievable reading but on the "medical side" If you read through the link above you will see why this is unbelievable. A corparation like Kaiser should know better , however much "Anyone" wants or needs to transition there are far to many other things to take into account , speeding up the process will not help it "Could" end in disaster.

 

You do really both need to take care and caution .

 

Good luck , Julia .

Sorry for my spelling and grammar, long nails and touch screen, and trying to write quickly is not a great combo lol xc

Hi Stephie, I WAS wondering sweetheart lol
And us being so close to each other, I wondered where you got your spelling from!
But...long nails can excuse just EVERYTHING, lol! xxxx!
This post was edited by Linda T at September 8, 2014 11:13 PM BST

Anyone here can put the blame on me as much as they wish I really do not give a sh*t about blame. One thing I do care about is people. Some of us here have been through hell to get to where we are now. All we do is try to give others our experiences that we have gone through in the hope it can give some insight into what can go right or wrong. Having that insight can at times give others foresight. Forsight is one thing you do really need doing this. You cannot see into the future but you can avoid the pot holes.

 

Yes I care! So shoot me .

 

Julia .

BANG....BANG!

Sorry Julia, but I just couldn't resist that lol!
Nobody's accusing!
You wouldn't put the hours in that you do if you didn't care.
But you must agree that it's not Miranda or Elizabeth's fault that this has happened.
It's the clinics.....far too quick!
I do not, nor would I want such quick diagnosis when I go in January.
I KNOW that all will be well with me no matter how long it takes 'cos I know, and have ALWAYS known "who I am"
Please, please, please don't take offence that I shot you "online" as it were, it was meant to lighten the mood! Lol!
However, if you have sustained any life threatening injuries as a result of this my lawyers will be happy to come to a settlement with you!) xxx
This post was edited by Linda T at September 9, 2014 4:02 PM BST

OMG! Just thought....will I go down in G.S. folklore now??
It's like Dallas all over again!
Who shot J.F.?
Lol!
This post was edited by Linda T at September 9, 2014 12:01 AM BST

I'll explain why I'm ok with the rushingness of this all. Elizabeth plans to transition no matter what. She's made up her mind. And my children will be 1&2 this month, they are young enough to not remember their dad any other way. And I don't want them to remember this transition time either. I'm not exactly clapping rainbows, I have my upset moments and feel like Anthony is dying as well as the future I had imagined. I don't want my children to go through these feelings,bi don't want them to remember this time in our lives.

Just to say in all this Miranda, that I really feel for you! You are taking all the fire here, something that you really don't deserve....god, you must love her so!
You have my utmost admiration for what you're doing for her here, as well as bringing up the children which, I know ain't easy!
Stay focused, but also STAY HERE!
xxxx

The name change , birth certificate change , SSN change etc. All has to be done before your SRS, not before hormone treatment here in California

Miranda and Elizabeth, hello!
It can sometimes be a shock to us English people how different the system can be in the US, and of course it can vary from state to state so we hear of many different approaches to treatment. I met a few US girls while I was in Thailand having my SRS, as did some of my English friends who went to the same surgeon. Your quick diagnosis, prescription and therapist's outlining of future treatment don't really surprise me. I'm sorry if you feel you've had a bit of a bumpy ride at some point in this thread.
Only in America? Well yeah, kinda. But your case is not unique, not the first time someone has had a speedy diagnosis or got hormones within weeks. And in fact, not only in America.
With my Hormone Forum Moderator's hat on, I would say you have been given the safest type of estrogen that comes in tablet form. I notice they're 1mg tablets, how many have you been advised to take for the time being?
If it's just 1mg estradiol per day, then that's a very low dose, which is how you should start. This is not going to have sudden and drastic effects and will not cause impotence in a hurry, so to all our readers I feel sure there is no cause for alarm, or lawsuits, or anything. Though I'm not saying you won't notice any effects on this dose.
Actually I don't really have a problem with your therapist's approach. And if many of us transitioned girls were brutally honest, we probably wish we'd been able to do it that way too. But we pretty much have to jump through hoops here, and it's been that way, like, forever.
Well I shan't go on anymore...
Best of luck to you both, please stick around, not only may you find a great deal of help and advice here, you may well be an asset to this site.
xx

Yes, those she takes only 1x per day and then takes 2 of the blockers per day.

American Psychiatric Association .

Section: Diagnosis Gender Dysphoria updated April 2014.

The American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria if the criteria in the diagnostic and statistical Manual of Mental Disorders are met. The DSM-5 moved this diagnosis out of the sexual disorders and into a catogory of its own.

The DSM-5 states that at least two of the criteria for Gender Dysphoria must be experienced for at least "Six Months" duration in adolecents or adults for diagnosis. The diagnosis was renamed from "Gender Itentity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria" after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing. Subtyping by sexual orientation was deleted. The diagnosis for children was seperated from that for adults. The creation of a specific diagnosis for children reflects the supposedly lesser ability of children to have insight into what they are experiencing , or ability to express it in the event that they have insight.

The International Classification of deseases (ICD-10) List three diagnostic criteria for "Transsexualism" (F64.0) Uncertainty about gender identity which causes anxiety or stress is diagnosed as sexual maturation disorder , according to the ICD-10.

Now reading the above not all of this applies to adults but the part that is of interest is

"Must be experienced for at least six months" That means in adults. It also means a six month involvement by a medical professional from the way I read the "Whole" of the process (And I did)

This was taken from The American Psychiatric Association , it is only a section and the whole topic is covered there. I am no expert and never pretend to be but the one thing I did learn to do before I was kicked out of school at 12 years old was learn to read. I learnt what was fact or fiction too.

I would like to think that the author of the above knows what they are talking about for this to be published by The American Psychiatric Association. I understand you have different laws and regulations in different states but , I will never understand why it is called The United States! You very clearly are not united as every state has a different law or rule. This came from a search for California but that does not mean it applies there "But it should".

Lucy has stated above that she actually has no problem with your therapists approach! Myself and most would dismiss that attitude . To me it is a selfish thing to state not knowing you or your full medical history.

Take care.

Found your quote above Julia, here on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
 
The diagnosis criteria for gender dysphoria include things like "Long-standing and strong identification with another gender... Long-standing disquiet about the sex assigned or a sense of incongruity in the gender-assigned role of that sex... Significant clinical discomfort or impairment at work, social situations, or other important life areas..."
If at least 2 of these criteria have been experienced for 6 months a diagnosis can be made. Elizabeth describes lifelong feelings similar to the above, so more than 6 months; the criteria have been met. Same with me, I have a letter following my first appointment at Charing Cross Gender Clinic which states I have GID. A diagnosis was made after one meeting. No lawsuits were filed...
If you follow the Wikipedia link above you will find a link to the WPATH standards of care. It states:
"The standards of care are flexible clinical guidelines. The SOC are intended to be flexible in order to meet the diverse health care needs of transexual, transgender and gender non-conforming people...
As in all previous versions of the SOC, the criteria put forth in this document for hormone therapy and surgical treatments for gender dysphoria are clinical guidelines; individual health care professionals and programs may modify them."
The WPATH itself says that their guidelines may be modified.
Treatment, and indeed interpretation of these guidelines is not the same the world over. It doesn't mean our health system's cookie-cutter approach in the UK is the only correct one. Harry Benjamin did not write a TG bible.
This is why I don't have a problem, in principal, to one therapist's approach to one individual patient.
I don't know the circumstances or what was said in the consultation any more than you do, Julia; I have no idea why you should say I'm selfish. It's just an opinion, and a fairly generous one at that.
xx

 

 

I do not think anybody was alluding that the couple concerned were not genuine.   it was the rushed  way their case was handled by proffesionals,  I am a sceptic about so called proffesionals, from personal experience, and a quick buck springs to mind.

People come to this site for lots of different reasons, some leave not finding what they are looking for, others looking for answers and information, some  get answers they do not want to hear. other hear only what suites their own agenda.   We give personal opinions or what we know based on fact, but I do not think anyone can fault us on the fact we get concerned and care

That never once said anything about 6 months with a Dr. The article you just posted proved you incorrect all it says for adults is to fell gender discomfort for at least 6 months. Not with a Dr.

That's right Anthony, that is what I am saying. You just have to have felt disomfort for at least 6 months, not to have been under the care of a doctor for 6 months.
As I said, I was diagnosed after my first appointment just the same as you were.
xx

I have watched this topic with interest and made a comment or two. I haven't seen any posts made by anyone with bad intentions, but admit I haven't read every post. With enough patience and communication, I think we can all understand that only the best of intentions are here, even if they are hard to see sometimes.

Please understand that I'm not saying this to discredit anyone, but another factor that makes this seem difficult to comprehend is the notion of how 'lawsuit happy' the American society is...one would think that a therapist would be rather hesitant to proceed with a diagnosis so quickly for fear of being sued if nothing else.

Despite this and to be clear, I don't doubt that Miranda and Anthony/Elizabeth are genuine.

I hope very sincerely that you don't leave and are still able to find the site friendly, supportive, and caring. I also agree that you are both assets to the site and may become much more so in time.

Shall I tell you my opinion if anyone here has not yet got it?.

Before I do it is my opinion that your comment was selfish Lucy! Agian it is my opinion.

 

So you think it is fine for a gender therapist to , without witnessing a persons behaviour to diagnose Gender Dysphoria in one appointment? Six months is a guide line. If every medical practitioner took the easy way out and just said "Yes you have Gender Dysphoria" after one appointment then there would be a lot of screwed up people in this world! Sh*t theres enough now.

The TG Bible as you call it is a guide line. If any person can walk in on a first appointment and say I am trans and they just take their word for it that is a recipe for disaster . There has to be some kind of guide line to work to and without one everyone will be taking out lawsuits everywhere. You have to admit if  child says they can't go to school because their tummy hurts there would not be many children in school if their word was taken. Same goes for adults wanting a day or two of work.

In cases like this going on here it was that one appointment that got some of us here concerned. A comment was made yesterday in jest about a drive through sex change and a big Mac to go was the next thing that popped up on my screen or something to that effect.

It is not okay for people with the power to do so mess up another persons life. There has been no talk here of any previous conversation involving gender issues , one appointment and diagnosis made. Without making this any longer than I need to , it is medical malpractice if it ends in disaster.

 

Play your cards right Miranda you could be the next Erin Brockovich.

 

Julia.

This post was edited by Former Member at September 9, 2014 6:29 PM BST

I'm still not sure why we are called the United States either lol we have some states with laws that go against federal laws. A minor example is marihuana. It's illegal federally but legal in 2 states. How does that work? I'm not a fan of the US and we want to leave but we can't.

Anywho! Got off topic there. I do understand skepticism. I was a part of a parenting forum, specifically on the Debate Team board, so it was literally arguing all day and "witch hunting" trolls. But I left it a few weeks ago because of everything going on and to focus on it which is why I was so quick to throw up my hands and leave here. I don't want to debate

Would the fact that this lieor secret, prior to being revealed, has caused numerous serious issues in our marriage and life be considered significant impairment in life situations?

Who is Erin Brokovich?

Miranda.

With all due respect the answer has to be NO. A hundred things or reasons could have been given or used not just Gender Dysphoria.

 

Julia .

 

I am adding this: Transgender? A word , a word that covers many types of people. TS/CD/TV Ect. The medical practitioner has to be sure which one they are. Beleive me there are many people who do not even know themselves.

Who is Erin Brockovich? Type into youtube for the trailer .

This post was edited by Former Member at September 9, 2014 6:28 PM BST

Dare I answer this?

 

You probably had suspicions, but its a fact  women marry men for a variety of reasons, protection, support  both finacially and as a role model, father figure for their children, a sense of humour, honesty, integrity. kindness and understanding, a lover in a male role.    Lies and deceit are all part of the problem of a gender disorder, the fear of letting down the partner, parent, family. alienating them and friends. fear of rejection.    You have to ask yourself if you knew on the first date, would you have gone on with a relationship with someone that was going to end up as a woman,   I don't think so.   Not unless you had lesbian tendancies.   Saying that, personally I think its who you fall in love with. Love conquers all? not in most cases in my personal experience.    Ask yourself what will happen if you eventually find you miss the physical part of love making. feeling secure in the arms of a strong MAN.

 

What will happen as things progress if he starts to change his sexual orientation and leans towards a relationship with a man? its possible and natural for a transexual to want to be desired as a woman.   All these things should have been gone into with the therapist especially when married with children.    Thats why I think things are being rushed, its fantastic and admirable that you are staying with your partner, but these are things that might crop up, you will have thoughts and desires of your own.

This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at September 9, 2014 8:22 PM BST

But see ALL our issues stemmed from GID. So obviously so that I knew this was the secret before she even told me.

Those are issues I worry about and am honestly not sure how I'm going to handle them as they come up. I can only imagine but that's not real life until I'm actually in it. If she were to cheat on me or her sexual orientation changed, I would leave. Just like if this does become too hard for me and is worse for the children if we are together rather than apart, I will leave. But if she's going to transition no matter what the best I can do is hold on tight and try to make it so at least I can know I tried

"So you think it is fine for a gender therapist to, without witnessing a persons behaviour to diagnose Gender Dysphoria in one appointment?"

Some of you are talking as if this is something ourageous. Malpractice?! This part of this person's story is entirely normal!
In case you missed it Julia et al, I was diagnosed with GID *after my first appointment* at Charing Cross, one of the largest gender clinics in the world. I have a letter, sent to my doctor, to prove it. It is not unusal. Other girls have been for their first appointment at this and other clinics in the UK and have on occasions reported back here on the front page saying the same thing. They say with glee that their GID has been confirmed by a professional and we all congratulate them. It is indeed a weight off one's mind to get that diagnosis.
It is commonplace, even in the UK, for a gender specialist to diagnose GID after one meeting. The diagnosis is based on the psychiatrist's assessment of the answers to their questions about the patient's history. HISTORY. Going back 6 months or more.
My TS friend Gillian is sat next to me and says the same thing about Sandyford clinic in Glasgow; she was also told she has GID at her first meeting.
It is normal. Even in the UK, even on the NHS.
Now either stop freaking out about it or file a lawsuit for malpractice against the NHS.
xx
This post was edited by Lucy Diamond at September 9, 2014 8:26 PM BST

I think there's a difference between diagnosing gender identity disorder or dysphoria and prescribing or recommending hormone therapy or other treatments with permanent effects.

That said, I can still believe it could happen, especially with a low dose HRT treatment to start.

I know my therapist wouldn't recommend anything so quickly for me or anyone else, but I'll also quite readily admit that I'm no expert.
This post was edited by M G at September 9, 2014 8:51 PM BST

The thing is girls, either you KNOW who you are before you go to your first appointment (like Lucy, and I know I will be the same) OR, you go because you are confused and need the appointments to help "work out who you are" which is much more difficult, and would require longer!
Me....I don't have any issues with who I am...I am relaxed, not troubled and fully accepting of this!

Lucy I know you are perfect but I am not. As this has been made about you I may as well join in. The day I told my doctor about me was the last day I lived my life pretending to be male . I was refered to a local NHS therapist (as all should be) . I visited that therapist for as far as I can recall 6 times , it may have been 8 , one hour each time. I still have a copy of the letter he sent to my GP. 

It says , I am discharging Julia from my care and refering her to The London Gender Clinic. She is comfortable and confident and convincing in her gender role and I have no need to see her again.

He told me he knew from my first appointment on my last visit . But , was he going to take the risk? No he done it how it should be done. Yes I was diagnosed too on my first appointment in London but , I did not just walk in and get a diagnosis , I had been living my life as female for about 7 to 9 months before that happened seeing my doctor weekly and the therapist every 3 weeks , never as a male .

 

Now this is going to sound like the start of a Tommy Cooper joke.

 

A man walks into the therapists , the therapist says take a seat how can I help you? . Well its like this I think I maybe or am a woman , Oh thats okay I will diagnose you as being Gender dysphoric. Next patient Miss Smith this ones done .

If you think thats the way it should be then it is not , and you should know better than to keep banging on about it being Okay because it is not.

Up untill last year I had been working along side organisations who asked me to help them. I met some of the most screwed up individuals I have come accross. Most did not know if they were fecking Rosie or Jim , one time they would turn up attempting to look like a woman and the next as a man , it done my head in. Trying to get it through their heads that wearing a dress does not make you a woman was worse than hard work , it was hard work.

 

I asked Crissie today and I hope she does not mind me saying this , would this website be better off without me? Her reply was Noooooooooo.  Why did I ask her? Because I am wondering why I am here. With so many know it alls around who needs me?. Yes I admit I can be a pain in the arse at times but , this is all about care and beleive it or not I do care but this place can get by fine without my upfront honesty.

I have a few things to sort out about the security in the elite members forums and then I think I am done here.

 

Whether I hang around here or not I am not responding to you again. If you read through this thread you will see I am not alone in my concerns. I was actually the first one to point out concerns of the speed the diagnosis came. This is not about You and it is not about myself , it is others lives and other members are going to get confused over this. Future members will too , stop making it sound like a walk in the park just because it was for you.

 

To you I am saying goodbye.

 

Take care , Julia .

Lucy has never claimed to be perfect Julia. You are both respected members here and both have a wealth of experience and knowledge to share. You can have differing opinions and both still be right too. There's no need for you or anyone else to leave.

Linda T said:
The thing is girls, either you KNOW who you are before you go to your first appointment (like Lucy, and I know I will be the same) OR, you go because you are confused and need the appointments to help "work out who you are" which is much more difficult, and would require longer! Me....I don't have any issues with who I am...I am relaxed, not troubled and fully accepting of this!

Sure, knowing clearly who you are could certainly speed things up. Further, I think a professional therapist could make a diagnosis quite quickly even if you didn't know yourself. There's still a big difference however, between making such a diagnosis and being ready to recommend HRT as the best treatment without taking more time and being more careful. It doesn't seem very professional. It doesn't mean it didn't happen in this case, it would just be surprising to many of us, that's all. I think it's time to put our opinions on the diagnosis and recommended treatment aside. I think it's time to put disagreements between members aside. It's time to just focus on supporting Miranda and Elizabeth as things are.
This post was edited by M G at September 10, 2014 6:16 PM BST

Fantastic post Madeleine.
You summed it up perfectly! xxx
However I think it's time also to say that just because some here differ in opinions the "I'm never speaking to you again" view is banal AND unjustified.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "let's all just live in a world with pretty flowers and endless supplies of Clarins" (though it would be nice lol!)
It's just that if we have a difference of opinion, it's NOT a reason to "make it personal" after all, if we were in a room debating this we wouldn't do that.
It would be an adult discussion, with ALL views taken into account and discussed....wouldn't it?
On a lighter note...I'm going to change my profile picture again now...the t-shirts due for washing! xx
This post was edited by Linda T at September 10, 2014 6:16 PM BST

Linda T said:
It's just that if we have a difference of opinion, it's NOT a reason to "make it personal" after all, if we were in a room debating this we wouldn't do that. It would be an adult discussion, with ALL views taken into account and discussed....wouldn't it?

Nope, it wouldn't. We'd settle things with a pillow fight! : )

OK so for a new topic, I am finding it very hard to quit smoking. Any advice if any of you are or have gone through this

This is going to be my last post on this topic and maybe on this website. Firstly giving up smoking. I presume you have been advised to quit because of the hormones but , that may not be the reason. If it is then you have to ask yourself which is more important? I was a smoker previous to taking my hormones and the choice was easy.

On a lighter note just do not put the thing in your mouth , try the bin. Some people ask me how to lose weight! I say the same do not put the food in your mouth. You have the ability to control your arm that moves things towards your mouth.

When people are under stress that can be hard to do so you have to find a way to take your mind away from the stress. I can go without food for days but that maybe down to being starved as a child by my Mother. Due to recent health issues I now have had to learn to eat again.

 

I am going to take this moment to say my part in this thread has been about care , I do not use the word selfish lightly, I am shocked to see that someone in this has finally thanked another member , a thank you costs nothing. There are some "SELFLESS" people on this website , Crissie is just one of those as it is very rarely about her , it is about others and this website.

 

Good luck with the giving up smoking , giving things up is hard as I am finding out right now with this website but , as I said to you which is more important? Now I have to decide what is important .

 

Take care , Julia.

This post was edited by Former Member at September 10, 2014 9:46 PM BST

Sometimes it's not as easy as deciding what's more important when it comes to quitting smoking. I'm very glad quitting was easy for you but not everyone has the same level of smoking nor does everyone body handle quitting the same. The only thing in life that I wanted to be was a wife and mom. And after 3 consecutive miscarriages I thought I wouldn't be a mother. Then I became pregnant with Charlotte. And I couldn't quit smoking. Not didn't quit. Couldn't. I cut down from 1 1/2 packs/day to 6/day but couldn't get any lower. I have an addictive personality. It ouch something, I'm addicted. And that's why I do not drink or do anything else. I'm not justifying not quitting, I hated myself every time I smoked, but even with the self loathing and fear and love for my child I still couldn't quit. It's not always as easy as "which do you want more"

I won't judge you here, as it wouldn't help and I'm in no position to do so. I can't understand how anyone would ever start smoking in the first place with all we know and have known about it for years now, but that's another matter. You are correct that things aren't always so simple, so black & white.
I will say that the stress (mental and physical) associated with quitting might have more negative effects on an unborn child than the actual smoking itself. Self loathing is never a good thing either. I hope your child is healthy and wish you all the best to quit.

I was very fortunate that both my children are perfectly healthy. It's amazing though how many drs even today have different opinions on pregnant smoking. I've heard personally from doctors:

The stress of quitting is worse than the actual smoking itself, just cut back as much as possible

If you drink 8oz of water for every cigarette it basically cancels thhe effects out (heard that on my 3rd pregnancy)

All studies are for a pack or more per day. Very few for half a pack but if you can stay under ten/day there are almost no chance of any effects to fetus

And then you need to quit now for your baby

It's crazy just how many different ideas drs have on things. I've learned that as well with oediatricians. From parenting forums and friends peds who say things that are polar opposite from what I have heard.

Oh both of our children are very very healthy . but it is hard I went from a pack and a half a day to 6 a day but i still have my hard days

"The stress of quitting is worse than the actual smoking itself, just cut back as much as possible" ...yep, that's kinda what I was getting at, I've heard that before too.

Glad to hear your children are healthy and I assume no developmental challenges either.

I'm sure you both also do all you can to limit their exposure to second hand smoke.

This just in...studies say that studies are accurate and useful only 'x' percent of the time...this study says that study wasn't right...we hear this all the time but some things I think we can pretty much accept.

Again, good luck and best wishes to you and your children.

I swear 6 is the magic number. It leaves a cigarette for all the times I crave it most. But anyways, yeah we wear smoking jackets outside, wash our hands, and have never smoked around the kids. It's not something I'm happy about (smoking) but idk if I'll ever be able to quit. I get in a panic if I run out at all. Maybe with some Xanax ;P

About smoking...

 

When dinosuars roamed the earth and I was younger, smoking was considered the "norm" (whatever that is) at that time. During WWII and Korea GIs would receive cigarettes as part of their C rations (food packets in the field). I remember hearing commercials on the radio and later on TV (yes, I am THAT old) where physicians would recommend a certain brand of cigarette as being better! I wanted to be cool when I was in my teens so i started. Wise choice? Not by a long shot but the research that shows the harm of cigarette smoking was not available in 1966. Smoking was much more "in your face" back then. Everywhere you looked cigarettes were being advertised. Print, Radio, Billboards, everyhwere. It wasn't until the late 1970s or early 1980s that they banned cigarette advertising in most forms of the media of the day. So I smoked for 20 years. Nicotine is a very tough habit to kick. The only thing i can compare it to would be heroin or cocaine, it is that addictive. I just quit cold turkey one day and i still don't know how i managed it. I DO know that my wife said i was a real as*hole to be around for several weeks. I can say that there are physical as well as psychological withdrawal effects with quitting.  I've known people that have been trying for years to quit and for many varied reasons can't. Notice how i didn't put won't here. Please do not read into any of this rambling that i am being judgemental of anyone in any way. The way that smokers quit is as diverse as the people themselves. Some people swear by Chantix or Wellbutrin as a supplement to quitting. Other smokers swear by the nicotine gum or the patch systems, etc. Lately, a lot of people have used the E cigarettes as a way of quitting. I only know what worked for me and that in retrospect was a terrible thing to inflict on the people in my life at that point. I wish I had know another way of doing back then but i didn't. Nicotine patches hadn't been invented yet neither had the gum. I DO know one thing for certain though. Even after almost 30 years of not smoking, every now and then I'll pass a smoker and it smells wonderful. I also know that if i had one cigarette I'd be back to smoking routinely in a matter of weeks. But that's just me. Addictive personality? Probably. I'll let you know what my psychiatrist says next month. Miranda and Anthony (Elizabeth) I wish you success in your quest. If anyone is really bored you can probably find a lot of those old cigarette commercials on your tube or the like.

I wish i could quit food the way i quit smoking that would be a true cause for celebration.

 

As always, I wish you both the best. Hold on to one another and let us know how we can help.

 

xoxo

 

marissa

This post was edited by Marissa Mallo, News Hound at September 11, 2014 1:04 AM BST

Can I ask a completely off topic question just because there's so many from UK here? Elizabeth and I live Doctor Who, we have a lot of TARDIS stuff in our home, and I'm a huge fan of Sherlock. I've seen every episode about 7 times. ANYWAYS is it the biggest thing in the world over there for tv, more so Doctor Who since it's been around longer, but us Americans all think the UK practically breathes in Doctor Who and everyone watches it. Is it really as big over there as we think or just a tv show that blew up in America?

In this day and age it's practically human nature to go off topic, I'm a habitual offender... But you know you could always start a new thread, Miranda. Anyway...
I love Dr Who, was brought up on it as a kid; the orginal series started the year I was born. As you may know, the show was cancelled many years ago, and brought back to life more recently with a quite different format. The earlier shows were, shall we say, somewhat lower budget, but kind of cute. More children-oriented perhaps.
So everybody in the UK knows, one way or another, about Dr Who. Not everybody watches it, but it now has a much bigger audienece than it ever did, now on prime time TV as opposed to its orginal Saturday "teatime" slot.
And I love it. The writing these days is wonderful; the script never being its strong point in the past.
So yeah, it draws some of the biggest ratings on UK TV at the moment and retains its cult status, but the whole country doesn't watch it, even though they should.
xx

It's always interesting to me to learn what stereotypes are of us and the truth with the ones we have of other places. Like that America is sue happy. I didn't know that was just a thought about Americans, I just thought that was a problem with humanity in general.

continuing with the dr who thing, has any one heard orbitals re-mix of the dr who theme? its exactly the same, but way way more awsum, in a way that only orbital can do,x