Forums » Frock Magazine

List of newest posts

    • November 22, 2017 1:18 PM GMT
    • Frock Magazine is on ice for a while but we do hope to resurrect it at some stage in the future.  There may even be a surprise Christmas/New Year issue.  We'll have to wait and see on that.

      However, we do still have 42 back issues available in the Frock archive at

      Hope that helps.


      Katie    :)


    • March 17, 2017 7:45 PM GMT
    • Hi All,
      Can anyone tell me if Frock will still be available thru PocketMags?  When I last went there to renew my subscription I was unable -- they mentioned that they will not be having subscriptions thru them and that I need to check with the powers that be (hence here?)
      Anyhow,  I love to be able to download it to my android and then read offline at my convenience. 
      Thanks all,

    • February 11, 2017 2:36 PM GMT
    • *giggles*


    • February 9, 2017 8:41 PM GMT
    • Well it got a bit heated, but I seem to have cleared up a few misconceptions and myth's. Perhaps that's why so many former members in this thread, Nobody likes a know it all :)

    • March 22, 2015 10:13 PM GMT
    • I dismissed Hugh Eastons article mainly because he accused his Mother of attempting to abort him with no proof. He was in fact accusing his Mother of attempted murder. The other reasons were his lack of knowledge or research. Many years ago the London Gender Clinic told me that 3 to 4 out of every hundred people were Transgender in some way. That figure is growing every year though and DES is not causing it..

      My personal opinion as to why the figure is growing is the internet. It is not to do with drugs it is due to awareness and more people feeling they can talk about it.


      Before the age of the internet all we had were books. It was an under talked about subject but now it is very talked about. More people are coming out and it is not being caused by a drug. DES may have caused a rise but how does that explain the rise now?.


      People need to stop looking for blame. Look for reasons for something that has been around since humans could think for themselves. Genetics are a fact of life and we as humans are made up of genes as are animals. I respect valid research but can there ever be a cure?. I very much doubt it because it is growing at such a rapid rate or should I say the awareness is?.


      Take care .

    • February 11, 2015 8:55 PM GMT
    • I neglected to acknowledge Mandy's contrbution, someone else who needed to discover and learn about her own circumstances.


      renatal exposure to diethylstilbestrol(DES) in males and gender-related disorders:results from a 5-year study Scott Kerlin. Proc. International Behavioral Development Symposium July 2005

      More than 150 network members (out of 500) with “confirmed” or “strongly suspected” prenatal DES exposure identified as either “transsexual, pre- or post-operative,” (90 members), “transgender” (48 members), “gender dysphoric” (17 members), or “intersex” (3 members).
      In this study, more than 150 individuals with confirmed or suspected prenatal DES exposure reported moderate to severe feelings of gender dysphoria across the lifespan. For most, these feelings had apparently been present since early childhood. The prevalence of a significant number of self-identified male-to-female transsexuals and transgendered individuals as well as some individuals who identify as intersex, androgynous, gay or bisexual males has inspired fresh investigation of historic theories about a possible biological/endocrine basis for psychosexual development in humans, including sexual orientation, core gender identity, and sexual identity (Benjamin, 1973; Cohen-Kettenis and Gooren, 1999; Diamond, 1965, 1996; Michel et al, 2001; Swaab, 2004).


      when I said at the begining, that maybe in the future genetic engineering might be used to modify mutations, its a logical conclusion a pre-emptive attack.  I never said there was a cure.

      I did say on several occasions that the causes and contributing factors are many, not ruling out external causes by the administering of drugs, the effects of working with chemicals, contaminations of substances in the food chain. it could be that at some future time parents could be screened amd genetics modified, this is not a cure, but a prevention.   As science advances, who knows.   Some childen with varing condiitons like this are prescribed testesterone and steroids.   Its my considered opinion this will not cure the actual gender identity problem.   But to say its spiritual is nonsensical, as if it was, a leap of faith, some kind of mystic interference.                                       

    • October 27, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
    • Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
      Here I am again, lol. I was born with Reifensteins syndrome, a form of AIS. Actually if you read my threads on the Synopsis of the Etiology of Gender and heteronormativity and a couple of the feature articles, Gender is in the main determined by Genes, perhaps in some cases genes that have mutated due to external influences or inherited as in AIS and Klinefelters. that influence the androgen receptors efficiency or the production of testesterone and there are counter conditions that affect natal females.
      Here I am again, lol. Crissie you crack me up the way you started this post and I miss ya xxxxx
      Julia xxxXxxx

    • August 18, 2014 9:54 AM BST
    • To me the problem I have with Hugh Eastons article is he is just like some looking for blame. Now when I read posts like Crissie's above I can see she is searching for answers not looking to blame someone or a drug for genetics. I am no expert but I can see the difference.

      Where the article is flawed is blaming a drug! Yes a drug can cause genes to mutate but , and this is where it goes wrong, the condition was here before the drug. The condition has been here as far back as humans were able to think for themselves.

      So lets say one thousand years ago! The condition was here but there were no phamaceutical company's , so no man made drugs "No one to blame" it was that bloody tree over there! Or was it that fruit or those nuts? No it is genes.


      However much I look at this making assumptions that a mother took an over dose to abort an unborn child should never be allowed to be printed in any form. The Mother cannot defend herself and is unfair. So Hugh Easton writes an article based purely on his own opinions and on assumptions.


      I do read through what Crissie posts and I admit I have trouble understanding some of it. One thing she has never done to my knowledge is blamed anyone or looked for someone or thing to blame. Now that to me is the big difference here.

      Look for answers and search for reasons but never ever blame someone for a genetic fault unless it can be proved 100%. I can read any response to this and Crissie's research will over ride anything else here.


      Julia x

    • August 17, 2014 11:59 PM BST
    •      SW Ecker. Abstract presented at the American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting; May 18, 2009; SF

      Gender Identity is that innate sense of who you are in this world with reference to your sexuality and behavior, not necessarily corresponding to your genitalia and reproductive organs. Transgenders are atypical and “think” as the opposite gender. Certain areas of the brain have been shown to be sexually dimorphic. They are different in structure and numbers of neurons in males versus females. Protein Receptors for the sex hormones in different areas of the brain (limbic and anterior hypothalamic) must be present in sufficient numbers to receive those powerful hormones. There are androgen receptors (AR), Estrogen Receptors (ER), and Progesterone receptors (PRs). ARs or ERs are predominant at different times in different parts of the human brain.. Hormone receptor genes have been identified in humans, which are responsible for sexually dimorphic brain differentiation in the hypothalamusThe groundwork in brain gender identity is gene-directed and takes place by forming male and female hormone receptors in the brain before the gonads and hormones can influence them. Multiple genes acting in concert determine our sexual identity. The human brain continues to make neurons and synaptic neuronal connections throughout life. This contributes to Gender Role Behaviors making individuals in the continuum of gender identity. Gender behaviors must be differentiated from gender identity (Hines). Gender Identity cannot be predicted from anatomy (Reiner). Brain gender identity is determined very early in fetal development, but gender expression, expressed as behaviors requires hormonal, environmental, social and cultural interactions, which evolve with time. One cannot deny the profound effects of Testosterone, Estradiol and other steroids on genital differentiation in-utero or their effects on behavior from birth or the physical and mental cross gender changes caused by exogenous hormones, but gender identity is determined before and persists in spite of these effects.

      Cristine Shye

      The Androgen Receptor (AR)

      The AR gene, located on the X-chromosome at location Xq11-12, is one of the most mutated genes in the human genome.  So much so that there is a  At the writing of this post, there are almost 400 known mutations of the AR gene.  That’s alot!

      Because the AR gene is on the X-chromosome, individuals with XY chromosomes (usually being natal males) carry only one copy of the gene, that which came from their mother.  If that copy of the gene happens to be mutated, then a phenotype (a physical manifestation of the mutation) may be more readily noticable.

      In XX individuals (usually natal females), one mutated copy of the gene inherited from one parent can be masked by a wild-type (i.e. normal) copy of the gene inherited from the other parent.  In that way, XX individuals can unknowingly be carriers of a mutated AR gene that could show up with a phenotype in their XY offspring.


    • August 17, 2014 9:34 PM BST
    • I cannot understand why this article was given the time of day , I hope Katie did not throw away good money on it because it is not worth 00.1p.


      And where is Mr Assumption now? And I should count myself lucky? Because Mr Assumption says: Julia is one of the lucky ones whos family stood by her!!!!!! What a feckin joke , the bastards nearly pushed me to suicide . If I were on a cliff top they would have pushed me themselves.


      One thing I never do is make out I know everything and that I have all the answers. I can only answer what I know and I still say this article is flawed and based on assumptions on Hugh Eastons part . It is worthless and that is my opinion.


      Julia Ford


      And in the rest of this AKA . Former Member.

    • November 13, 2013 4:30 PM GMT
    • Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), also referred to as androgen resistance syndrome, is a set of disorders of sex development caused by mutations of the gene encoding the androgen receptor.     AIS is genetically passed down through generations.   So its a gene disorder that prevents either the production of T or the failure of the receptors recognising T.    not the other way around



      The set of resulting disorders varies according to the structure and sensitivity of the abnormal receptor.   Most forms of AIS involve a variable degree of undervirilization and/or infertility in XY persons of any gender. A person with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) has a female external appearance despite a 46XY karyotype  (Which is a gene)  

      A male-to-female transsexualism gene was discovered in Oct 2008 and discussed by Emma Young in commentary in New Scientist. 
      A full article was published in 2009 regarding the nature of androgen receptor polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism.
      Hare, L., Bernard, P., Sanchez, F.J., Baird, P.N., Vilain, E., Kennedy, T. and Harley, V.R. (2009) Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism.  Biological Psychiatry,


      I was watching this with some interest, but now your comments on AIS, your getting out of your depth


    • November 13, 2013 4:09 PM GMT
    • Lisa Capri said:

      There is an element of truth in your research Hugh and you maybe on the right track with some respects speaking from a scientific view.


      Genetics and sex hormones especially before the pre-programed stage are complimentary to an extent.


      Gender is determined not only by hormonal changes which are also influenced in turn by temperature changes within the womb but the sensitivity of the fetus receptors at that time. A mother's stress level also plays another factor in the developmental stages of the fetus.


      Your suggestion of exogenous interference to the endocrine of the fetus is true to a degree just as the mother like all of us are subjected to chemicals such as phytoestrogens, preservatives and so on. These too play an important factor in the disruption of biological cell production and can disrupt cell division in humans and animals alike causing many types of health issues, therefore it maybe feasible to a degree to place emphasis on such with your theory.


      Having said that; Until it is scientifically proven without doubt 'in all quarters' it remains a theory. I agree to some extent as speaking scientifically as there has been without doubt an explosion of Transgenderism over the last 30 years.


      That being said; CAH is not the same as Transsexualism (which by the way is spelt with SS and not one S) Julia lol, therefore, putting science to one side, what some people refer to as the 'Soul' which is wrong as the Soul is the body, but the 'Spirit' which is the ghost is the life force of the Soul. A dead body for example brought back to life as in a 'Frankenstein creation' would from a scientific perspective be no more than a cabbage therefore, the Spirit 'the Ghost' is the person within and is the life-force within that Soul and therefore the 'Soul life force' of that person. So I have to say that, although you have a theory which is not new by the way, but please do pursue your goal by all means, I would say Transsexualism is Spiritual and not so much interference of nature.


      I believe whole heartedly Transgenderism and Transsexualism is happening for a reason and for whatever reason it is for the better of mankind as a whole. I believe the genders are closing together. I say genders rather than 'gender gap' because there are many variants of gender and always have been except now it is something we all have to accept as it is a point of fact.



      Hi Lisa and sorry for not replying to you earlier.


      I'm not sure where you got the bit about "temperature changes in the womb" affecting sex from, AFAIK the temperature the foetus is subjected to is normally a constant 37 C throughout the pregnancy. Any significant deviation from that would only happen if the mother developed a fever or became hypothermic, either of which would probably be bad for the foetus, but not in the sense of affecting its sexual development. It's a different story in cold blooded animals. Many of them don't have a sex determining chromosome, and the sex of their offspring is instead determined by the temperature the eggs are incubated at. Maybe that's what you were thinking of - it doesn't apply to humans or warm blooded animals though!


      There are indeed a wide variety of estrogen-mimicking chemicals present in the environment and potentially getting into our food supply. However, generally these substances aren't present at high enough levels to shut down testosterone production in an adult man (if they were, you can bet something would be done about it in double quick time!). With DES and very likely with hydroxyprogesterone caproate too, if you gave the same dose that is being used for miscarriage treatment to an adult man, it would completely shut down his testosterone production. Indeed, DES was for many years used for precisely this purpose in adult men with prostate cancer, a dose of 3mg per day being sufficient to completely suppress testosterone production. The starting dose of DES as a miscarriage treatment was 5mg per day, with the dose being progressively increased as the pregnancy wore on so that near the end of the pregnancy it was often 125mg per day or more - over 40 times higher than what was used for prostate cancer treatment. That's what made DES such a good example to look at how these drugs affect male development; the doses involved were so high that it's pretty much inevitable that it was completely suppressing testosterone production in those exposed to it during the later stages of the pregnancy!


      It seems counterintuitive, but it's hormones and not genes that determine which sex you develop as, and in humans, your sex appears to be entirely determined by whether there's testosterone present or not during the time sexual development is taking place. There's a medical condition called Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome which basically proves that to be the case. I understand the situation is a little more complicated in rodents, where estrogen receptors also play a role, but in humans it seems to be entirely down to the presence or absence of testosterone.


      I get the impression that a big part of the reason why the effects of DES on gender identity have remained a secret for so long, is that a lot of trans people refuse to accept that a chemical might be responsible for their condition and get really angry at anyone who tries to say otherwise. As I've been trying to explain to people, all the DES did was cause your body to stop following the instructions for male development and start following those for female development instead, during the later stages of the pregnancy. Because of the way development occurs in the unborn child, the end result is that you get a body that predominantly developed as male and a brain that predominantly developed as female. Not surprisingly, people in that situation often find that they identify a lot more closely with the female gender than the male one despite having a male body. It doesn't make you any less of a person than anyone else, it just means that you have the psychology of a woman rather than a man (which I think is something most trans women knew from an early age anyway).

    • November 6, 2013 11:48 AM GMT
    • I hope you all find the answers you are seeking. All I am seeking is my research and moving ahead in my life. I hope you all do to.


      My husband decided to come over to the UK for a while to treat the children to some sight seeing over here and that is why I have not responded the last week. My work will be done over here in the UK soon and then it will be time to head back home.


      I hope you all have a lovely day.


      Lisa x

    • November 5, 2013 3:34 PM GMT
    • If its safe to come in now, I would like to say that I think what’s coming up here for me is that whilst it may be true that Stilbestrol causes Gender variance, and there is a huge amount of well documented evidence to indicate that it does, it doesn’t follow that its the only source of gender variance. Perhaps its a clue to the cause, where a possibly increased level of oestrogen could cause a conflict between physical and emotional development of gender? I don’t know exactly but it may be surprising to know that even though Stilbestrol has been banned for use as a treatment associated with miscarriages, it is still used as a growth hormone in animals that are destined to enter the food chain. Banned in Europe perhaps, but not in America, so there is still a possibility that its in the food chain. If you doubt that then cast your mind back to earlier this year, when it was discovered that large amounts of horse meat was being used in processed foods, and most of that was unfit for human consumption because of the horse tranquiliser Bute.   

      For the record, I was exposed to Stilbestrol when my mum had an implant to prevent another miscarriage and I am the only one of 6 children to be Trans in my family. Whether or not this has been passed on to my children isn’t clear yet, but its a possibility. Also for the record, I don’t use it as an excuse, nor do I blame my condition on it, I just think its hugely interesting and I wouldn’t want to change that even if I could.

    • November 2, 2013 12:54 AM GMT
    • Former Member said:

      Before I go I will just add that I still find it wrong to assume that a mother tried to abort their unborn child , and then for the son to put it in an article to be published anywhere .


      The main reason in all of this recent explosion of transgender openess is the internet. There is nothing in the water or the food , it has been there all of the time its just we can see it more now.


      I am nearly done here .


      You all take care and goodbye .


      Julia x



      Well Julia, there is a difficult moral dilemma here. I'm fairly sure there are quite a few people about who do know there was a problem with DES, but they've all assumed that the problems DES caused were due to it being an estrogen, and now that it and other estrogens have been withdrawn from the market, there is no longer a problem. If I'm right about what happened to me, then it shows that both assumptions are completely wrong. Although they did contain a small amount of ethinylestradiol (an estrogen), the main hormonal component of those first generation birth control pills my parents were using for contraception is norethisterone acetate, a progestin. Nonetheless, I seem to have experienced many of the same effects DES sons have (born with a genital abnormality, feminine features and lifelong problems with hormone regulation, gener variance and many of the same psychological effects). The main difference is that psychologically, a lot less of me seems to be female than is the case for most gender variant DES sons, which is exactly what you'd expect to happen (due to my much shorter period of hormone exposure). This is not a small point considering that progestins are still in use as a treatment to prevent miscarriages.


      If I'm right about what happened to me, then it's very likely that some of the medical treatment currently being offered to pregnant women is causing many of the same effects that DES did with the DES sons - including transsexuality and gender variance.


      I'd like to think my motivations in writing the article were entirely good and based purely on drawing public attention to a colossal medical mistake that is potentally impacting the lives and health of millions of people. Being honest about it though, I'd had a falling out with my family, and at the time I wrote it back in August was feeling very hurt and angry. I've since had a reconciliation with them, and would I write the same things today? Probably not. Julia seems to be one of the lucky ones whose family have stood by her. She should count herself lucky, since many of us aren't so fortunate!

    • October 30, 2013 6:53 PM GMT
    • Before I go I will just add that I still find it wrong to assume that a mother tried to abort their unborn child , and then for the son to put it in an article to be published anywhere .


      The main reason in all of this recent explosion of transgender openess is the internet. There is nothing in the water or the food , it has been there all of the time its just we can see it more now.


      I am nearly done here .


      You all take care and goodbye .


      Julia x



    • October 30, 2013 6:03 PM GMT
    • This time everyone is right to a certain extent, lol,   Its definately not some 20th century social explosion, the Hirja of India, have been revered MtoF priestesses for 1000's of years,    The reason for Gender Identity disorders,  is as diverse as humanity itself, with modern science, more and more clinical reasons are coming to light as a result of research, like the basic discovery and recognition of DNA.   The advent of CAT scans etc.     People that worked in the chemical industry, its been proved that some of those people were directly affected by the materials they handled and subsequently their off spring were directly affected.    What is important to remember, just because someone does not have an obvious physical clinical sympton,  does not mean they don't qualify to be treated and respected as the gender they see themselves as.


      History an Extract

      • Posted by Cristine, Shye (GS Admin)
      • May 29, 2011 11:12 AM BST

    • October 30, 2013 5:39 PM GMT
    • Am I missing something here? I am supposed to be the thick one.

      So we have Hugh Eastons article , then we have me the thick one saying it is flawed then Lisa turns up and joins in and starts getting a bit touchy and Cristine who puts some sense into it.


      So lets have a short summing up then. Hughs article! I said it was flawed and still say it is , he is just assuming things , no disrespect intended but they are just assumptions . He assumes his mother had taken an over dose of the pill to abort him , I am having trouble with that kind of assumption put into any article not just his. Hugh is searching for a reason he is the way he is , sorry but you cannot just assume your mother took an over dose .

      Hugh then goes on to compare himself with his brother! I can tell you now that my very hetrosexual deceased brother was a lot more female looking than I was , he was skinny and I was chubby , he looked more feminine than I did and he went on to get married and Father children . You cannot judge a book by its cover , I was told that my back is to long in proportion to my body many years ago after I visited my doctor with back pain , my legs are long but then again I am tall in female terms.

      I am fairly sure I am not the only one like this , just the same as Hugh is not the only one like him , I was not playing with my micropenis though like Hugh was , the bloody thing was in my way.


      I stick by everything I have said in this thread.  I am now going to use two words I dislikeYell Transsexualism and Transgenderism! Has been around for thousands of years "Fact"  who knows maybe even cave men thought they were cave women but just could not go to Boots the chemist to get some make up or go to the local Debenhams to find a nice dress to wear.

       I am trying to keep this short so I will stop here , I could go on and on but me being the thick one here I will leave space for the educated ones .

      I am a Transexual , I am a genetic fault , I just like others have been through all of the crap and the tests and for what? For some expert to tell me the bloody obvious , I am female yet born in a male body .

      You know what? My life has been crap but I would not swap it because has been one hell of a journey . Would I want to be anyone in the so called normal group? No its to boring , plus you poor souls would never known I existedLaughing Bet that bit made you smile.


      Julia   (the thick one in this discussion) .

    • October 30, 2013 11:34 AM GMT
    • Here I am again, lol. I was born with Reifensteins syndrome, a form of AIS. Actually if you read my threads on the Synopsis of the Etiology of Gender and heteronormativity and a couple of the feature articles, Gender is in the main determined by Genes, perhaps in some cases genes that have mutated due to external influences or inherited as in AIS and Klinefelters. that influence the androgen receptors efficiency or the production of testesterone and there are counter conditions that affect natal females.

    • October 30, 2013 10:40 AM GMT
    • I wrote this in a hurry this morning as I needed to be somewhere - I am now going to edit some personal content and a few other pieces.


      Thank you Hugh for your explanation.


      What I can't get my head around is why people always look for something to blame! I used the word dissect because I feel like we are being dissected like we are some strange beings , we are not , we are in actual fact very human and for all of what we have to go through in our lives one of the most caring group of people on this planet , this website is an example of care , Katie cares and although she does not like my openess at times she is well aware that I care . I care about this website and I care about other people.


      RE: Cristines work . I can understand Cristines reasons for her need to know why she was born with her condition and the causes of it . Living with conditions like hers and my own and others too is not easy , it is a killer by suicide . I can never say that I have read all of Cristines work because that would be a lie but I have read a lot of it over the years . If she put it in a pile it would look far more bigger than the Bible , but just a more interesting read. She as far as I am aware is not looking for blame but looking for the cause , and she has done a very good job of it , I am sure it has helped many understand and will continue to do so.


      I did find your article interesting but it is my opinion that it is flawed .  I do know Cristine is right , she would never state something that was not fact when in serious mode . So below using my uneducated brain and the few minutes it takes to make it up as I go along I am going to write an article.


      Why are hetrosexual people (or so called normal people) normal and I am not?


      I am the Author of this .

      After much thought (about 30 seconds) I have come to the conclusion that hetrosexual people (the so called normal ones) are like they are because they drink Tea and Coffee , I reached this conclusion because 99.9% of them drink Tea or Coffee and some of them drink both . I therefore blame Tea and Coffee for making them Hetrosexual (normal).


      This article is very flawed because I drink Tea! Oh no my Mother and Father drank Tea and Coffee , it is their fault then that this is flawed? Now after 56 years I know who to blame for my very hard but interesting life.

      So I blame my Mother and Father for having sex and Tea and Coffee and my Father for not using a condom for me being Transexual  , I will bung in some Cornflakes for good measure you never know it maybe them too.


      To be honest I am not looking to blame anyone or anything including drugs , I am a genetic fault , it happens in humans animals and plants and even microscopic organisms. Now I am thinking are these other life forms trying to find blame? Of course not they just do what I and others do and get on with it , live then die.


      The above has taken me about 2 minutes to think about and type , although it is just a bit of fun to blame Tea and Coffee it will get the blame one day . Yes drugs do cause problems in unborn children and they most likely always will but if you really want another answer I will be pleased to post it before I go . It is not a fact but it is something I have thought about a lot over the past years and it makes sense , it is not related to this but is related to hormone changes and how I can , using my brain work out something that a lot of trans people believe but is utter rubbish  .


      I thank you again for your time and explanation .


      PS: I did Google you and I am not that fecked off with you as I could find no sign of you stacking shelves in Tesco , the first thing that came up when I put your name in Google was Hugh Easton on Ebay , I then tried again adding DES and found one thing and that was about your article.


      Take care , Julia



    • October 30, 2013 12:37 AM GMT
    • julia ford said:

      Sorry Hugh but I have read your article and it is flawed in many ways , interesting but flawed.

      You cannot blame artificial hormones for being Gender variant or being transexual or anything in your article to be honest.

      Modern diagnosis of the above began back in the 1800s way before artificial hormones were created.

      In actual fact you can go back thousands of years in history and find accounts of all of the above .

      Being gender variant or Transexual is nothing new, It has not just been invented! Thousands of years ago a fraction of men grew breasts and had female looks.


      Looking at your images of you as a pre pubic male! Yeah what is your point? You look like most pre pubic males , ok you have long hair but so did most young boys in the 1970s , Donny Osmond fans or wannabee's mainly. You mention your build and your brothers too! Again what is your point? We come in all shapes and sizes and we can look like either parent or neither in some cases.


      It is all in the Genes , there maybe a  tiny few affected by modern medicines but it really is genetic. I hope you have read Cristines link! It makes more sense than anything I have read.

      If you wish to respond to this as I hope you do please do so within 48 hours because I will be gone from here .


      Julia .

      PS: I am no expert but I have read history books. And I have added an image of Donny Osmond! Transexual? Gender Variant? No just a pre pubic pretty boy.


      Firstly, I wasn't pre pubic when those pictures were taken, I was 12 years old and had started developing my pubic hair about a year previously. I developed a high sex drive quite early on, and by the time those pictures were taken I was already spending a lot of time fantasising about sex (and, um, playing with myself too by that stage!).


      What I was trying to show is that I've developed a body structure far more like that of the female members of my family than the male ones, and that this is something that must have begun when I was very young, long before any confounding factors such as substance abuse were present.


      One sexually dimorphic characteristic in humans is trunk length. If you look at a typical heterosexual couple, the man and the women usually have legs that are a fairly similar length. The reason the man is taller is that his trunk is a foot or so longer than the woman's. I ended up being a similar height to my 2 brothers, but my legs are considerably longer and my trunk quite a bit shorter than is the case for either of them. My bone structure is different from either of theirs too. I'm much more lightly built, and a lot less heavily muscled (particularly in my upper body). This type of body structure is known medically as a "eunuchoid habitus", and is something that's typically associated with intersex conditions such as Klinefelter's syndrome or Kallman's syndrome (except I don't have either of those conditions).


      It's true, there have always been intersex conditions and gender variant people throughout history, but by the same token, no doubt there's been the occasional baby born with missing limbs throughout history too. Does that mean thalidomide is harmless? That's probably not the best example to use, but hopefully you get my point!


      It might be counterintuitive, but our sex isn't actually determined by or genes, it depends on whether or not we have testosterone (and its derivative DHT) present and able to do its job during the time we're undergoing foetal development. There's a condition called Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome that basically proves this to be the case, as I think Cristine was trying to say in her article.


      If you expose a male foetus to testosterone-blocking drugs such as DES, then it's only commonsense that you run the risk of creating a baby who developed as male for some parts of the pregnancy and female for other parts. It just so happens that, due to the fact that most medical treatment with hormones tends to take place after organ development has already completed, "brain sex" tends to be far more affected than the baby's physical appearance, with consequences (such as gender variance and hormonal problems) that don't show themselves until long after the baby has been born. That long time lag has, I think, been one of the main things obscuring the link between pregnancy hormones and gender variance in adulthood. There's also the fact that most medical research into sexually dimorphic brain development takes place using rats and, due to a quirk of nature, estrogens such as DES have a masculinising effect on rat brains. I think there's been a widespread (and incorrect) assumption that the same must apply in humans.


      Basically the impression I've got is that there's a fair number of people who do know that prenatal DES has had psychological effects on many of those exposed later in life, but there's total confusion about what actually happened. Everyone seems to have assumed that, whatever the problem was, it's something that's limited to estrogens such as DES, and, since these have since been withdrawn from use during pregnancy, there's no longer a problem. However, if I'm right about the effects on DES sons being largely due to testosterone blocking, then it's highly likely that some of the hormones still in current use are producing similar effects (and that's the reason why we're seeing such high rates of gender variance among younger people).


      I'm not very good at explaining things, but hopefully that makes sense!

    • October 29, 2013 11:34 PM GMT
    • Lisa .

      As you seem to respond this thread when I am asleep I just wish to explain something to you . I need to end my part in this thread as it is holding me here , when I say holding I mean I only came back to this website to sort a few things out and it was my intention to get it over with within 48 hours . I have been a member of this site on and off for about 7 years now and this is the first time I have been a basic member , I expect nothing for free in this life .


      Maybe it would have been best for me to just stay out of this but it is to late now I am part of it. I was hoping for a response from Hugh , the Author who did say any questions don't be afraid to ask , well maybe Hugh is to afraid to answer now? Or maybe he is off dissecting and pulling apart some other people somewhere who knows?. All I know is I have no wish to be here , you may have guessed the reason why! Yes I say what I feel or what is on my mind , if that is what you were thinking and yes some people don't like it "But" I do spark debate and I happen to think that is a good thing , after all if we can't talk and discuss things then what is the point in a forum? I suppose we could do Role play? (Not a good idea) Ok being serious here.

      In the post above I said that you should read what both you and Cristine have written then go take a look in the mirror if you want to see hostility! I stick by that because you have attacked a very good friend of mine whom I have the greatest respect for , you seem to like big words? Well respect is only 7 letters long but it means a lot more than most big words.

      My lack of education is maybe why I still need to know answers even at my age , I don't think anyone can see into my profile (or they should not be able to) but I am 56 years old in just under hours time and I am still learning , I have Cristine to thank for a lot of what I have learned over the years and that is why I get defensive if I see disrespect towards her , I do defend myself too , and that is one of the reasons I came back here , you see some people think it is clever to wait until I delete my account then attack me , and no doubt it will happen again.


      It is not really a good idea to join a website and jump straight into hot water , try putting you toe in first , if as you say you have no time then find the time before you judge people , I am not judging you but I will put you right when you are wrong , and you feel free to do the same to me , plenty have done on here before , if you can find the time that is.


      I do not want this topic to end because Hugh Easton has started something here , I have no clue what his qualifications are or why he decided to write his article , I just want to know why people like him do it! You see Cristine has a reason , you call it pedantic , I call it a desire/need to learn , and then teach by sharing her experiences.


      I will Google Hugh Easton when I have finished this , and if he is a shelf stacker in Tesco then I will be really fecked off.


      I have not come back here to argue with you or anyone but I do think you owe Cristine an apology then maybe we can all just move on and debate this in a more reasonable fashion , and if Hugh decides to come out of the woodwork I can get out of here .


      Julia .

    • October 29, 2013 9:55 AM GMT
    • Lisa Capri said:
      Julia, you don't have to justify yourself but thank you all the same that was really sweet of you. I understand where you are coming from regards to how you feel about Hugh Easton's interpretation.
      Cristine, it appears it is you who is somewhat pedantic. You have evidently completely misunderstood what I wrote. I was clearly 'defending' Transgender and Transsexual people.
      If you imply it is not spiritual, a jury would interpret from your evidence then it is man-made? A disruption 'interference' within the brain pattern that has given rise to a 'false' gender? So remove the cause - cure the problem? Well that is utter nonsense and if you believe that I feel sorry for you.
      I joined here and within a very short space of time you have come across as a very angry almost aggressive person towards me. I have joined in the past women's websites which have nothing to do with Transgender but rather mothers who talk about women's issues, pregnancies, childbirth and raising children also with special needs as I too am a mother with two daughters of my own and I have never come across what I perceive an almost hostile attitude whereby you come over very much on the defensive side.
      Yes, there is room for debate but perhaps with less hostility would suffice as I simply don't have time for it and at this present moment in my life don't need it.
      Oh dear LisaFrown No smiley today .
      You are very much mistaken! You have just insulted a very good friend of mine .
      So it is sweet of me justifing myself to you? No more being sweet then because if you insult any friend of mine you get the sour side of me.
      You and anyone else on this website are entitled to an opinion . Now opinions and facts are two different things . Cristines study's are made up of facts not opinions but she is entitled to an opinion too . I even found your comment of being "Spiritual" Very strange .
      Hostile? You call Cristine hostile? Look back at what you have written and what Cristine has written , then go look in the mirror because you will see the hostile one .
      Julia .


    • October 29, 2013 1:26 AM GMT

      Julia, you don't have to justify yourself but thank you all the same that was really sweet of you. I understand where you are coming from regards to how you feel about Hugh Easton's interpretation.
      Cristine, I thank you for your summery.
      When I write I do not write in 'attempting' to say, I write facts but it was misconstrued so I endeavoured to re-phrase things to be understood more clearly here be it a slight difference in cultural phraseology and vocabulary perhaps although written medical evidence even from the UK to the US or visa versa has it's validity approved within the Court of Law and interpretations are the same regardless of jurisdiction. I provide admissible, tangible scientific evidence alongside with forensics.
      Cristine, it appears it is you who is somewhat pedantic. You have evidently completely misunderstood what I wrote. I was clearly 'defending' Transgender and Transsexual people.
      If you imply it is not spiritual, a jury would interpret from your evidence then it is man-made? A disruption 'interference' within the brain pattern that has given rise to a 'false' gender? So remove the cause - cure the problem? Well that is utter nonsense and if you believe that I feel sorry for you.
      I joined here and within a very short space of time you have come across as a very angry almost aggressive person towards me. I have joined in the past women's websites which have nothing to do with Transgender but rather mothers who talk about women's issues, pregnancies, childbirth and raising children also with special needs as I too am a mother with two daughters of my own and I have never come across what I perceive an almost hostile attitude whereby you come over very much on the defensive side.
      Yes, there is room for debate but perhaps with less hostility would suffice as I simply don't have time for it and at this present moment in my life don't need it.
      I deal with Attorneys/Attorney Generals/Sheriff's Department's/Professors of Endocrinology/Scientists none of whom are this way. 
      It is none other than nitpicking which means; 'fussy or pedantic fault-finding.' 
      As for advice? I joined here with intentions of doing some research on surgeons.
      I have to make my calls back home now -5 hours GMT to get to speak to my children and my husband therefore, I have to be available both on UK and US central time which can be quite exhausting.
      Lisa x

    • October 28, 2013 5:16 PM GMT
    • Gender Variant People

      Many anomalies such as AIS  (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) can arise causing inconsistent development between the various elements by which we know ourselves to be either a man or a women. Among the larger group embracing all these varieties, there is a small subgroup of individuals who experience gender varience The personal experience of this state is sometimes known as gender dysphoria (dysphoria means ‘unhappiness’). The impact of genetic and/or hormonal factors on their fetal development appears to cause parts of the brain to develop in a way which is inconsistent with their genitalia, gonads and, usually, with their chromosomes. This may give rise to another, rather different, example of XY women, that is, individuals whose visible physical sex appears to be that of a man, but whose brain has some female characteristics and whose gender identification is, therefore, that of a woman. Or, conversely, gender variance may occur the other way round. An individual having XX chromosomes and the visible physical sex of a female, may have some male brain characteristics and therefore, identify as a man. So the issue of one's gender identification, whether as a man or as a woman, or even neither (which occurs only rarely), is rooted in the brain, and is regarded by the individuals concerned, and is demonstratedby research, to be largely determined pre-birth and more or less stable thereafter.




      Thus the experience of extreme gender variance is increasingly understood in scientific and medical disciplines as having a biological origin. The current medical viewpoint, based on the most up-to-date scientific research, is that this condition, which in its extreme manifestation is known as transexualism is strongly associated with unusual neurodevelopment of the brain at the fetal stage. Small areas of the brain are known to be distinctly different between males and females in the population generally. In those experiencing severe gender variance, some of these areas have been shown to develop in opposition to other sex characteristics and are, therefore, incongruent with the visible sex appearance.

    • October 28, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    • Hi Lisa.

      I  was not attacking you I was correcting you , the way I spell things is the way I learned to spell and I did it very much alone , as I stated when I discovered the word that was how it was spelt in the dictionary . I will be the first to admit I am useless at spelling and grammer. I put a smile at the point where I said you spell colour wrongSmile <- look there is another one , I don't use smileys to attack people.

      I can assure you Crissie would not attack you . I have never in my whole life known any person with as much patience as she has .

      I was hoping that the author of the article would respond to my response , maybe he has been warnedSmile. I do get a bit sick of people in this world pulling us apart like we are in some kind of experiment.

      Crissie has spent years studying why she was born the way she was "and others were" then smart arses come along and think they know it all , They do not , So then I get thinking why are they doing it? I still don't know the answer , maybe they are just bored or something who knows? One thing I do know is that the article is flawed , it is to easy to blame drugs or assume drugs were the cause. As I also stated trans people have been around for thousands of years we are not a new breed , maybe Authors should take history lessons before they pick on us? or they could just take a look at Cristines work and just give up! It does not get any better , I have learned more from her than any book or article I have ever read.


      I always end my posts with "Take care" That is unless anyone has really fecked me off , look back as I ended my response to you with Take care . So we have started a debate and that is what these forums are all about .


      As I am not hanging around keep it up .


      Again take care .


      Julia .

    • October 28, 2013 3:11 PM GMT
    • Hiya Lisa.


      Quote Lisa ''I don't quite understand how anyone can misinterpret what I said and try attacking me. I am completely on your side 100%.''


      Cristine-: Because I have a difference of opinion, or did not understand  what you were attempting to say, does not mean I am attacking you personally or denying you the right to an opinion.      I picked up on two of what I thought were salient points, that appeared somewhat contradictory.


      It's also recognised that many of the physical results of some of these conditions does not automatically mean that a person suffers any form of gender identity disorder.


      If you do need any help, information.  let me know.    But please let us not be to pedantic when it comes to spelling and grammar it tends to alienate people and deters people from posting.



    • October 28, 2013 1:37 PM GMT

      Dear friend/s,


      Maybe there is a difference between US/UK English.


      Perhaps if I try to translate what I said as; Transgender/Transsexual individuals 'have no choice in the matter' as it is not a question of choosing to be the person you are as you are the person you are period.


      I don't quite understand how anyone can misinterpret what I said and try attacking me. I am completely on your side 100%.


      A lot of parents for example as you well know try convincing themselves their child is merely going through a phase. Rather they want to believe this to be so than accepting they have a child who was 'born' transgender.


      It boils down to 'outdated' attitudes of wanting to believe everything is black or white extending back to 'traditions' of what was perceived as normal.


      What I indicated; Transgender as a broader term has always been there, but history throughout in male dominated societies has prohibited anything against what was perceived as un-masculine throughout. Only within the domain of certain cultures were transgender people accepted. I do not wish to diverse into the history as I do not have time for this.


      I was born with CAH, so as you are fully aware of who you are of course, I too have lived with my condition since day one. So there is no need for insults as far as 'doing my homework.'


      If anyone here wishes to misconstrued anything I have written that is your prerogative of course which is a great shame.


      The only way forward with anything regardless of topic is to have an understanding of one another, anything less will diverse into endless and pointless debates which go no-where.


      We are all in this together and there is no escape from that and the only way is to move 'forward' rather than going in circles.


      If there are certain individuals with whom find my data disagreeable then please feel free to 'quote' in part/s and give me the opportunity to explain to you rather than attacking me. I have feelings too and am not used to being verbally attacked.


      If I am held in question of what I have written please be accurate and to the point in question that which you did not understand.


      Julia Ford; comparing US to UK pronoun in a derogatory fashion appears one of almost contempt towards Americans as a whole? Likewise, you simply cannot categorize all Americans just as one cannot categorize people born with either CAH or being Transgender/Transsexual or for being a particular race, color or whatever. So less of the racist attitude please.


      My dear Cristine Shye, you have gotton the wrong end of the stick, seriously you have. What I implied was; science can play God as much as it wants but can and never will be God. Science can be there to help and is helping with modern technology. But the fact remains one who is born with transgender/ism which is a medical term only and not a label to discriminate by any means, is born with this condition and 'do not' have a choice in the matter as it is a very real human condition.


      We all have choices in everything we do in life but, being born a transgender individual is definitely not a choice and as you know full well is very real just as I do.


      Now, if you find that offensive then perhaps I am wasting my time here and should go back home to the US.


      I actually quite like it over here, especially the people and culture.


      I have never intergrated with either Transsexual or Transgender people before as with CAH I merely plodded along in life like any other person and never called into question my womanhood as there has been no need.


      I came here for a specific reason to seek help myself with something as I had a devastating experience just last year which coupled with recent bereavments and so I have confiided here on this site with a lovely lady with whom I have sought advice.


      Try getting to know a person first before pouncing on them. We all have a story to tell.


      I originate from Tx by the way and am also a true Cowgirl/gal at heart and a real Southerner too and love my horses and my Country music and a real friendly natured person and always had that big beaming smile on my face, but not of late sadly.


      I hope you have a truly wonderful day, apart from the high winds, just hope they blow over soon.


      I have a schedule to get to.




      Lisa x



    • December 3, 2015 11:54 AM GMT
    • I can't tell you how much the article helped me. I've been so confused and upset for so long without knowing where to turn. I live on a small island and there is no specialist gender support, or local LBGT social meetings (with the exception a walking and youth group).

      My GP referred me to a psychiatrist but there is a years waiting list. Since reading this article I have joined your website, and ordered to book recommended on Amazon. I really can't thank the author enough. I'm only very early into my journey but I'm no longer racking my own mind and creating my own problems for the first time in about 18 months.



    • May 29, 2015 8:29 PM BST
    • Late breaking news: the show was a five part documentary that ran its course last month. However, it IS available on YouTube.



    • May 29, 2015 5:08 PM BST
    • So I read, in this month's Frock, about this new TV show on Discovery Life Channel (US only) called New Girls on the BLock where the entire cast is TG!  EXCELLENT!  How disappointed was I when I could not find the show on the schedule.  According to the Discovery Life Channel website, it is, in fact, not on the schedule.



    • May 6, 2015 9:41 AM BST
    • Thankfully, our society is changing positively and it is much more easier times for younger generations than it was in the past. Hopefully, it will keep improing. 

    • April 21, 2014 9:26 AM BST
    • Hi Richard,


      Yes, people should be who they want to but it hasn't always been easy. Today in the UK and Europe at least, it is far easier to transition without any difficulty as there is a lot more understanding, acceptance and legal protection than there was twenty years ago when a lot of us 'older' women would like to have transitioned. Knowing your rights and the routes open to you is a huge step and the internet has helped to open that up.


      Now if I could have done all of this before puberty....................

    • April 21, 2014 5:50 AM BST
    • Hi my name is Richard. I have always said now matter what you are you should be what you feel like do not let people tell you what to be just be your self and if you feel like a woman go for it or a crossdresser go for it. If you are a woman and feel like a man you go for it. We only live 1s so just do it and fk others who make fun of you because you do not need people like that you have friend who take you for ho you are. I do to all of you out there chin up and go for it xxxx

    • May 6, 2015 9:39 AM BST
    • I found out out that deep breathing and yoga exercises are very effective in reducing and getting rid of depression. If you're suffering from depression, anxiety, stress,  you must try these exercises. 

    • July 9, 2014 6:47 PM BST
    • Thanks for your input ladies. This is a good thread, let's keep it going for anyone who may want to post here : )

    • June 24, 2014 4:23 PM BST
    • Tricky one, ladies.  Medically, "simple" depression is usually classified as endogenous, or exogenous.  The first suggests that the person's depression comes from something within, let's say, for example, gender dysphoria.  The other suggests that the depression is the result of some external factor such as poverty, unemployment, or (if I may go here - in our situation) real or perceived rejection by society, feelings of being ridiculed and misunderstood.


      This whole ball of wax really leads to the conclusion that anyone on the transgender spectrum is being hit twice (a double whammy, as some would say.)  This is one of the root causes of the higher than average incidence of suicidal ideation (and action) and psychological disturbance in the TG community.


      Medication can be a great help.  All antidepressants are NOT equal, and each individual reacts differently to each different medication, so therefore, it can take quite a while to find the right one for you.


      However, medication is not the only answer - it may be great at dealing with symptoms, but it does NOT deal with root causes.


      A combination of medication, together with good therapy is the best way forward. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy can help change the perceptions that lead us down some blind alleys.  It's not about understanding or analizing where we are.  It is practical, goal-oriented and designed to help us MOVE forward from where we are.  If you do suffer from depression, get the right meds, but more important - consider CBT.


    • June 13, 2014 6:18 PM BST
    • I understand full well where you speak from Madeleine - beyond highs and lows it becomes is one willing to ask and answer the questions that are inside. One thing I was always willing to do was ask and seek the answers to any and all questions external to me - but there were those nagging questions inside - many of which I knew the answers to - who am I and how do I really see myself, for example - that I carefully constructed walls to. I too, when that day came and the bubble burst as I refer to it often - allowed myself to finally say aloud - this is how I see myself, this is who I am, ( and most importantly ) - it's okay and I'm okay. It was at that moment, for the first time in all my life I finally felt balanced - I made it a point all my life to assume that being off center, off-balanced in terms of my feelings and center of self was okay and the right way to be. As well - I experienced a release through the whole of my being like I have never felt ever in all my life - metaphorically it was like a large cement weight lifted off of me as best as I can describe. I felt whole finally. With that balance, not only can I find the solutions but I see myself at the center of my being as the TG, the girl, I am. So, in that, I relate very well to your concluding line of embracing my inner female self, and I'm slowly starting to be happier and more capable. - Pleasant journey soul sister : )

    • June 13, 2014 4:05 PM BST
    • I can relate to what you are saying Briana, about the 'self-correcting happy gene' and the knowledge and self acceptance of knowing your core is strong and good. Don't get me wrong, it's a great thing, but the one bad thing about it for me at least has been that the self correcting process sometimes keeps the lows from getting low enough to start doing something about it. It keeps the lows from getting too low but also keeps the highs from getting high enough. I'm left emotionally numb and it's a challenge to maintain motivation to make things better.

      Since embracing my inner female self, I'm slowly starting to be happier and more capable.

    • June 13, 2014 3:06 PM BST
    • I occassionally feel blue but very rarely. I noted in a response and it seems to be the case - I may be one of those people with a so-called 'happy' gene. It is sort of self-correcting. I never define myself as any of the obstacles I encounter and I know my core is solid and good - I merely seek solutions and define myself as that. The universe, even myself at times, is the question, hence I need to find the solutions. 
      This sort of philosophy helped me generate a list of observations I have posted on this site in a blog - sort of rules for life things. I have a handful of friends who wanted copies of this after perusing it. I have always been a person people call just to talk to or help in some small manner and as they note - 'you are always happy'. 

    • June 13, 2014 2:26 PM BST
    • N/A or N/I

    • June 13, 2014 1:25 PM BST
    • I have long suffered from depression. I can trace it back to high school at least. It has changed over the years, but has never felt related to my transgender situation. In retrospect, I am beginning to wonder if it might have always been related in some way, even if indirectly, and certainly subconsciously.

    • June 13, 2014 1:13 PM BST
    • In the April/May 2014 issue of Frock Magazine ( and again in the June/July issue, our resident Transgender Psychologist, Amanda Bruce ADHP(NC), Dip. EH (NC), EHP, UHCP Reg, looked at depression, the kind of treatments that are available and how you can help someone who is suffering or who may be having suicidal thoughts.


      But how widespread is depression in the trans community?  Moreso than in the wider population?  Have you ever suffered from depression and what did you do about it?  Or have you helped someone who was depressed.  If so, how did you help?

    • November 23, 2013 10:45 AM GMT
    • This is a placeholder for comments on the forthcoming article, 'The Origins Of Drag'.  All will be revealed when the next issue is published... soon!

      Following on from the article, 'The Origins Of Drag' in the December 2013 issue of Frock Magazine, here's your chance to tell us what you think.

    • November 22, 2013 11:36 AM GMT
    • This is a placeholder for a thread about Amanda Bruce's next MindFrock article in the December 2013 issue of Frock Magazine.  If you'd like to comment on it, please do so here...

    • November 10, 2013 2:40 PM GMT
    • For me personally my wish would be for my operation to happen earlier in the year than later. It’s not impatience so much as wanting to move forward in many ways, without constantly wondering how prospects and opportunities will fit around it. A more general wish would have to be that tolerance, understanding and awareness of the Trans community, continue to improve and that this will encourage more Trans People to have the courage to live their life more openly.



    • November 5, 2013 1:23 PM GMT
    • Thanks ladies.  Anyone else got a hope or wish for 2014?  Post them here and be in the next issue of Frock Magazine!


      Thanks, Katie   x


    • November 4, 2013 8:05 PM GMT
    • I wish that everyone could be at peace, not only with others, but with themselves; I hope that all reserve judgement and to remember "he who cast the first stone"; and I pray that you all have a healthy and "Happy New Year." 

    • November 4, 2013 7:57 PM GMT
    • Hello Katie!


      My New Year Wish for Frock Magazine - it would be nice to read more about Dressing Services and where they available, also more information about Beauty Salons for TG Girls.

      Thank you.


    • November 4, 2013 3:13 PM GMT
    • For the next issue of Frock, we're looking at doing a piece on your hopes and wishes for 2014.


      If you'd like yours to be included, please reply to this post and tell us in one or two sentences about your hopes and wishes for the coming year.

      Thanks, Katie   x