Bruce Jenner

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  • Any comments on Bruce Jenner's interview with Diane Sawyer? I haven't formed an opinion yet.
      April 25, 2015 2:26 PM BST
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  • Bruce did a wonderful job telling about his/her life. I am still confused about Bruce's comment to Dianne that "he" still prefers male pronouns, until her next coming out. It was told in a very human and compassionate way. You could not help but feel her inner struggle throughout his life.

    We all know how that feels to some degree, and for me, it really hit two chords. I recall the time of my life before I came out as gay, and the inner struggle and turmoil I felt. The 24/7 question to myself..."If they only knew..." After I came out, it was the most liberating feeling, my friends and family, luckily for me, remained my friends and family. (although I didn't come out to my parents until just recently - we live in different parts of the country, so it was easy to keep in from them).

    I don't know where I am going with dressing. I know I have been doing it since I was little. Like Bruce, always marking and arranging the hangers or drawers of my sister or mother just so I could replace what I was wearing perfectly. There are other similarities that I wont go into. I thought it funny that he described herself a tom-boy. I have done that many times to describe myself. I was and remain athletic, I won't go into details, but it was my day job for 5 years in the 80s. I don't see myself a boy who is girlie, rather a girl who is tom-boyish. I suppose that is why, I have been comfortable and don't hate my male self.

    My boyfriend watched the special with me. He gave me a huge hug after and asked me if I was okay. I was crying at that point. I was and am still very emotional right now. I was up most of the night tossing and turning. I mean, I knew what the show was going to be about, I didn't realize how close to home it was going to hit me. There are so many things I want to do now. It's okay. I tell myself in due time, slow down, think, ask.
    I know now I have to come out to more friends. I really need to talk about this with my sister. I trust her judgment and respect her advise.
    Thanks for letting me bare a bit more of myself. Here is where I feel safe...I am sure I will have much more. But I am tired and my head is saying I need a coffee, not a good combination.
    hugs all around
    Chrissi

    that is what i posted on another board
      April 25, 2015 3:02 PM BST
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  • I haven't had time to watch the full interview, but I have read a couple of articles in the UK and USA press about it.

    What opinion is there to have? No doubt he will receive both support and crticism, sadly, in the latter case from the TG community itself. Whatever you think about him or the family which he married into, or the way that he's going about it, he's gone through the same things as any other TS. I know how that feels, many of us of course do. I admire him and support his decision in whatever humble way I can, not having met him or ever likely to. He's transsexual and finally found the courage to say so, good, there are lots of us about, some out some not. The public need to see more of us coming out which I believe will eventually cause this condition to become more normalised by society.

    Any high profile case like this is good for that cause. I feel slightly sorry for him being a celebrity and being probed, stalked, photographed and examined by the press at this sensitive time in his life, but that's also why I admire him, or perhaps moreso appreciate his realisation that this is something he simply must do, whatever the press and public think. It's his life, no-one else's. Then again, he may be able to use the press to his advantage, perhaps to ours too, that's his choice.

    Like many other TS's I'm sure, I'm also slightly curious about him wanting to be referred to as male during transition, this would set off alarm bells for any UK gender clinic! But it's his choice, perhaps showing some sort of sensitivity, respect, or just damage limitation where his family is concerned. It's only a matter of time before he's saying, "Ok Lucy et al, you should call me she now".

    xx

      April 26, 2015 1:58 PM BST
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  • I have watched some of the interview on youtube. Not seeing the whole thing it is a bit strange that he wants to called him yet he says he is female. Lucy is right that it would set alarm bells ringing at the gender clinics here in the UK. I think untill he gets his head around himself or herself , him or her would not be prescribed hormones here.

     

    He/she also said he was not gay! Well I was in a relationship for 23 years with another woman and when I was asked the same question at The London Gender Clinic I had to say , after being in that relationship with another woman the answer would have to be yes. If he says he is a she and is attracted to females then he has to get real and admit he/she is a lesbian. I do not even know what to call him! He says he is a she yet wants to be called him and heUndecided.

     

    We are all very different and that is what makes the world go round but if anyone ever referred to me as he or him I would take that as an insult.

    Anyway it is his life and if he says he is a woman who wants to be called him then that is up to him. It just confuses people who do not understand or do not want to understand. He has confused me but I only know bits and pieces. He maybe taking things to slow or to fast but he needs to make his mind up because there are good examples and bad examples. If some good comes out of this then no one should complain. If it all backfires and bad comes out of it then it sets others back with the media , because the media can be very cruel and will be given the ammunition.

     

    Take care x

      April 26, 2015 5:44 PM BST
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  • I watched the interview with some trepidation. I feared that they would sensationalize the topic but for the most part I think it was handled tastefully. I especially liked all the background information that was provided. I was bothered by the continual references to when they will meet “her” (no name) when she is sitting right there! I hope that this program will help educate and promote understanding with the general public. Personally, I am a little concerned that this may “out” me a little sooner than I planned but it may be for the best.

     

    Hugs to all,

      April 26, 2015 6:24 PM BST
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  • Ditto on the lesbian statement    if he states he was a female and de sired female that would be so. technicaly 

    the other thing i thought it could be as a alternating Gender Incongruentcy...old school slang (BIGENDER)

      April 26, 2015 6:26 PM BST
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  • Anyone who has seen the whole interview did he say if and when he is going to transition? And by transition I mean live life full time female. Also did he say he will still be a he?. As he seems to be a high profile person in the USA he needs to be very carefull. The way he terms himself in gender could have a bad effect on others and he should think of that. This is all about him but we all know how it can affect others lives so he should think of them too. I am not talking about his family I mean other "uncunfused" transgenders , more so the younger ones who have a bad enough time of it now.

     

    Gwen you are younger than me and each day that goes by should be cherished. If that interview has made you think that you will come out sooner then that can only be a good thing , unless you know better. I hope it all goes well for you when you do come out. That big wide world is not that bad a place and you will feel better for it I hope.

     

    Michelle. Bi-Gender had crossed my mind to but he does still need to get his life sorted out and make up is mind if he is not. He needs to be diagnosed by some professional people who know what they are doing. The medics to the stars or famous over there seem to give the patient what they want and not what they need.

     

    It is highly unlikely a professional medical practitioner here in the UK would prescribe female hormones to Bruce Jenner. Over here the gender clinics need to be very sure before they start any life changing HRT. I am no expert but Bruce Jenner seems a bit confused. That is only my opinion based on what I have seen and listened to.

     

    You all take care xx

     

    Edit: Spell errors corrected.

    This post was edited by Former Member at April 26, 2015 10:22 PM BST
      April 26, 2015 9:50 PM BST
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  • I am a CD.  I have no interest in SRS, whatsoever.  I watched Bruce when the special came on and again tonight.  My extraction is that Bruce is unique, as each of us are.  He has his own point on the spectrum of gender identity and sexuality and has finally gotten free of the idea that he needs to worry about whether he fits my idea, or your idea, about what he must be.  And, he is continually evolving. So rather than identifying an end point, he, in a very sophisticated way, really only committed to a next step.  He is not in the politics of it, but knows he is too big a figure to make these changes without comment.

     

    I wonder why anyone finds it strange that he still prefers to be refered to as male.  It was clear, that he has a definate point established in his mind when he will change his preferred sexual identity.

     

    He is not going to allow the hostility that some people have about the Christian faith to sway him from his faith.  But, he is walking in this direction and has faith to believe, it is his path.  To be honest, I don't agree in that I don't think SRS is his path.  I really think it is his challenge, his thorn.  But, there is something else I will say that most CDs, if they could freely speak here, would say.  Your gender is above your shoulders, not below your belly button.  By the way, if you are a Christian and you don't know the thorn issue, you should study Paul and the thorns.    If you are not a Christian and you don't know about Paul and the thorns, then you will really have a hard time understanding why Bruce Jenner can be both a confident Christian and someone going through transition. 

     

    I will give advice:  If you are not a Christian and not considering becoming a Christian, then don't try to figure it out.  You won't be able to get it.  If you are a Christian then remember, there is no sin but that which is common, I say again, common, to man.  And, there is none ...  you know the rest.  And just a third reminder, filthy rags. The Christians will know these references without having to Google it.  Not that they might not Google it to confirm what they already know.  

     

    If you are not sure about Christianity, I mean, if you have ever considered becoming a person of faith, then I am going to tell you something that, politically, most religious organizations are not in a position to say.  You are welcome, just as you are.  Perhaps not welcome to the people of a particular organization, but you are welcome to God. However, it is unlikely you will have a faith experience if you don't seek one.  Actually, you will never have a faith experience with God if you don't seek one.

     

    But, everybody has faith.  If you don't think you have faith, please write me and tell me you have no faith in anything.  Then, I will write back (don't put any faith in that, I probably won't write back)  and ask, how do you drive?  Do you stop at every intersection and make certain that the people driving cars in crossing traffic are obeying the red light?  Why do you have a bank account?  How is it you believe that there are other people actually creating this stuff?  Are you certain what happens to the sun at night?  Why are you confident that your computer won't electrocute you? amd many other such questions until you get the point that, like I said, every one has faith.  The only question is faith in what?

     

    I know the aetheists will get all freakish about this.  For the most part, they deny that there even was a Jesus Christ.  I just ask them what year it is and move on.  Without God, there is no moral authority whatsoever.  And, anyone who tells you both, that there is no God and that there is morality, has appointed themselves moral ruler of your life.  Depose them. The truth of the matter is that a true atheist has faith to believe that they know enough about the whole universe and every facet of existence to know that there is nothing beyond what they know.  Ron Regan knows enough to his existence, your existence and the whole of everything that exists to tell you, there is no God. 

     

    Did you know that Darwin was a Christian researcher?   Did you know that the big bang theory was based upon a Biblical understanding of creation?  By a Christian minister?  Did you know that the Bible says that it must be consistent with science? (Romans 1:20)  What the hell does this have to do with transgender and crossdressing?  Just because we are this way, have these desires and wonder why, that does not mean God does not know who and what we are.  If I were giving a sermon, I would argue that not only does God know who and what you are, he made you that way for a purpose and that purpose is acceptable to him, even if it is not acceptable to the church, the people you think are the church.

     

    Bruce knows this.

     

    I will take your slings and arrows now.

     

    Enjoy,

    Wenjoy.

     

    Who made up these fashion rules, anyhow?

    -- Enjoy, Wenjoy. Who made up these fashion rules, anyhow?
      April 27, 2015 3:02 AM BST
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  • Wanda when God and religion is brought into forum threads about transgenders they normally end up being locked. Is that a Gods intention? . I have faith in humanity but no faith in any God or religion. Religion has no faith in humanity as it is hell bent on destroying humanity.

    The way religious organisations look at life is you do it our way or just piss off. I keep hearing of some churches that accept transgenders but even that is a load of crap. Failing churches will accept anyone if it means staying afloat and that makes them hypocrites. All religions are hypocrites and are run by hypocrites.

     

    There is no place in religion for transgenders or gay people as in an organisation. They are organisations that are run by a load of gays yet tell everyone that being gay is wrong , the same goes if anyone is transgender "Hypocrasy" at it's best. I have faith in many things but that has nothing to do with any God. In the eyes of any book about God I am a sinner. I am a sinner because I am a genetic mistake.

    Recently Leelah Alcorn ended her life at just 17 years old because of those good old christians. The church tried to turn her into a hypocrite and so did her parents , end result? Another young life lost. That is how religion see's us , to conform to their ignorant values you have to live a lie.

     

    I was born a Catholic and I was taught it is wrong to lie. I will not lie and I will never lie to suit some pathetic church who cannot accept me for who I am. Me having to go to a Catholic school as a child I was forced to read or listen to adults telling me what is right and what is wrong. They were in actual fact teaching me what was wrong and it was them not myself. At 12 years old I was raped by a Catholic teacher and after he had finished he told "Me" to go and prey for all of my sins. Again hypocrasy at it's best as all I had done was revealed my true gender and for that I was raped by a grown man whom I was supposed to be in the care of.

     

    Take a look around the world right now. No religion can let the other live in peace , millions of humans dieing over what is written in a load of outdated books that serve only one purpose and that is to incite hate. No religion is better than the other and they create new rules to suit them. Rivers of blood are still running in the so called holy land , the middle east is a complete mess as it always has been. All of that is driven by all religions hate towards each other.

     

    Whoops! I have just told the truth about religion , I await my fate for being honest. I will be carefull on my way to work as I maybe humanely stoned to death as I need to pass a few churches. I laugh at the notices asking for cash to fix the church roof when those churches have more money and assets than Bill Gates .

    This post was edited by Former Member at April 27, 2015 10:19 AM BST
      April 27, 2015 8:13 AM BST
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  • Well I made it to work with no rocks hitting me in the head. Can I just ask why Wanda you brought religion into this?. Did Bruce Jenner say something in that interview about religion?. Most people who know me Know my feelings towards the subject and use it as bait or to bait me. I hope that is not the intention here because I know this thread will be locked and I do not want it to be.

     

    Some food for thought as to why the church needs you and your money in the link below. And it is not just Catholics they are all the same. Above in my previous post I mis spelled prey , it should have been pray but I did not edit it as I was that mans prey.

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/13/sex-abuse-settlement-cardinal-roger-mahony/1984217/

    This post was edited by Former Member at April 27, 2015 11:12 AM BST
      April 27, 2015 11:10 AM BST
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  • So now we have established the facts , and they are facts. Religion is the cause of the deaths of innocent people accross the world in their millions. Religion is the cause of suffering to innocent children from sexual abuse by the ones who run these organisations. Religion is basically a load of different organised groups who harm and take away the meaning of the word humanity to their victims.

     

    Non religious fact. Nepal is the centre of a natural disaster right now and what you can see is humanity. Humans helping other humans who need help. No religion is involved in that , they are helping each other not killing each other in the name of some God. Those are the facts and always will be untill religion eventually destroys this planet we share.

     

    So unless Bruce Jenner has not been crucified or stoned to death and is still alive can this now go back on topic?.  Olivia you started this thread stating you have not formed an opinion yet. Is that still the case as you have seen the interview?. I have made my opinions clear on one subject which I still have had no answer to as to what religion has to do with Bruce Jenner. I have tried to form an opinion on the clips I have seen and I do not know if those clips are cherry picked.

     

    Over to you. Take care x

    This post was edited by Former Member at April 28, 2015 9:17 AM BST
      April 28, 2015 9:15 AM BST
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  • Well Julia

     

    I usually take a live and let live attitutde; as long as nobody is getting hurt.  That said, one can't help wondering how much this two hour interview was publicity related.  I have no doubt of his transgender feelings - and it would not be any of my business had "he" not put it out there. We all may be hurt by negative publicity;  being taken as a joke.  Time will tell.   My DW is convince that it's all a publicity stunt. Then again, she defines closed minded (poor me!).  I can't imagine taking estrogen for five years as a publicity stunt.

     

    He is in the public eye so he may just be trying to get in front of this and deal with it on "his" terms.  I'm not so arrogant that I could do such a thing.  The way WABC promoted this event, one can't help wondering how much is sincere and how much is media circus.

     

    As to the religious aspect, not being Christian, I can't really relate.  I can say that some seem to wear their religion on their sleave as if there wer ein it for the fortune and glory, while others keep to themselves their beliefs.  I have more respet for the latter as I feel thsat one's religious beliefs or non-beliefs are their business alone.  So much of the foregoing religious debate is lost on me.  I do wonder what my Rabbi would think of all this.

     

    Executive Summary: the jury is still out as to the purpose of Jenner's mia culpa.  I am skeptical of his true intentions.

      April 28, 2015 4:24 PM BST
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  • "Mea culpa", Latin, meaning (in today's vernacular) "My bad".

    What exactly do you mean by Jenner's mea culpa, Olivia?

    xx

      April 28, 2015 4:38 PM BST
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  • A thousand pardons for the incorrect phrase.  I was referring to his public "self-outing."

      April 28, 2015 10:28 PM BST
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  • Sorry Olivia, I thought you were suggesting he'd done something wrong.

    I don't know what the Latin for "self-outing" is...

    xx

      April 28, 2015 10:32 PM BST
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  • Why is there no option to delete this post?

    This post was edited by Former Member at March 30, 2016 2:25 AM BST
      April 29, 2015 4:46 PM BST
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  • I don't think Jenner is doing anything wrong.  It's the public spotlight that concerns me.

     

    Also,  it must be nice to have unlimited funds to pursue one's journey.  Most of us aren't that lucky.

      April 29, 2015 7:57 PM BST
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  • Why is there no option to delete this post?

    This post was edited by Former Member at March 30, 2016 2:20 AM BST
      April 29, 2015 8:36 PM BST
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  • It's been said that there's no such thing as bad publicity.  We shall see.

      April 30, 2015 4:31 AM BST
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  • Bruce should be provided with all the support from the community he needs at this time. He did the right thing to come out and express his feelings. 

      May 6, 2015 10:01 AM BST
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  • I put off watching it until just yesterday. There has been so much about the transgender community lately. There was the Janet Mock interview, The TED interview with the model, I forgot her name, the interview on Oprah, I think it was with the doctor who had her sperm frozen before her SRS and later impregnated her wife, so Oprah interviewed and used the shock and awe to say the the other Mom was the Dad. Then Bruce Jenner, Jeffrey Tombor wining Best Actor for playing Maura in Transparent on Amazon Prime. I saw that one before Jenner and was balling half the time. Good thing I only watch these things when my wife is away. Okay, all that being said here is my impression, take it for what it's worth.

     

    Bruce is a public figure and always has been since the Olympics. Papparazi have been chasing him around for a while. Sometimes it is better to just face things head on. I can't be certain, but I believe that there is going to be a real life drama series on his transition. I though I heard something about that. So this issue will get even more explosure, lol, I was almost going to correct that but seems fitting, explosure rather than exposure. Anyway, all that can mean is that he will get even more money. I will give him that he has had the same struggles as any transgendered person about coming out. I think it is slightly different when you have his money and you don't have to worry about being financially ruined just to be you. Trust me, I have been there and part of the reason my coming out failed in the late 90s. I had two kids to support and extremely high child support, so I couldn't be trying to find a job and transition at the same time. It was good to see that most of the kids were accepting. My kids were too. They were young at the time. As Jenner noted, kids are resilient and adapt well. It is the adults that have issues. 

    There were a lot of good points brought out. I thought that bringing out that sexuailty is something totally different than gender. It is very confusing to a lot of people, but then again, saying you are not gay when you plan on being a woman and dating women makes that even more confusing. Though, he was saying he was still a he because he hadn't begun the full transition process yet. It seemed like a dance and he was trying to handle things tactfully without causing other issues. One point I did like was when he pointed out that after all is said and done, he was still going to be the same person only the outward veneer and name would change. Oh and when he was finally she full time, he would be happy. 

    Okay, how does this impact me? Well, frankly, my depression has deepened. I have more thoughts of death. I feel trapped. One of the questions that came up was about feeling guilty about what he did to his wives. The lies. Well, in that I have to say, that before we got married, I mentioned to my wife-to-be that I had issues during my last marriage and that at one point I was on my way to becoming a woman. She told me she understood, and that was the end of it. My ex wanted to use that as a point to drive a wedge between us, but she was shocked when I gave her my wife's phone number to call her and talk to her. She was floored that I told her. Yeah, not details, but she knew that I had begun HRT and quit after a week. So I was honest with my current wife from the start, but I thought I had buried Emma and could continue to live as a man. Now I see all these transgendered people, some very successful people like Janet Mock and that model. It is like everywhere I turn I am seeing someone else come out or some TV show or something. Emma could not be buried long. Yet, my Mother's words come back to me from my wedding day, "Don't you hurt her"

    My wife is a wonderul lady and has taken great care of me. We have bought a beautiful property with eight acres and plan on building an alpaca farm. She noted that I haven't been smiling and was troubled. I told her that I was struggling with old issues and was not sleeping well. She wanted to know. I found my old journals on an old PC and put them together for her. These journals had only been seen by my psychologist. It was the raw stuff from my first coming out. She read the first and bookmarked her place and tossed it on the fridge like a dime store novel she planned on getting back to. It had taken all I had in me to be able to trust her with that and her response was, that was intense. I didn't know that she had just tossed it on the fridge until she was looking for a new one and I had to measure the opening. I saw it up there and my heart sunk. Worse, if my daughter had come over for lunch as she had planned, she might have seen it. She knew my psychs name and it was right there on the title page. What if she picked that up and read it. What if she got to the part where I gave up who I was in order to provide for them? What kind of mind f---- would that be on her that I stopped being Emma for the sake of her and her brother? 
    Well, I don't want to keep going on. Trust it to say that I don't trust anyone. I have no one to turn to because the one friend I used to be able to confide in and who was helping me to transition now lives in Minnesota. I think back in reading the journals to my friend's vision of the two of us getting a little cottage somewhere and being two old ladies in the garden. It was a nice dream. My life ended when Emma became Ed again, and I just exist. Having all these people come out and be successful and accepted is not helping me. It is good for the community though.  

      May 14, 2015 1:26 PM BST
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  • Wow, I was really surprised when I logged in and looked in the forum and saw there were so many replies to my message.

     

    I haven't read all of the comments, but I will.  Then I will respond. (Remember, I said I wouldn't respond in my original post and wish to reiterate, I feel no obligation to carry through with a response.)  I did kind of glance through them though and one of the things that I can say is that, from what I saw, everyone is passionate about what they believe, but everyone was kind, even if they vigourously disagreed with me.  That's very good because I have been in other forums where people were downright evil, something way beyond mean, toward each other. 

     

    One other thing is that there is this fear that Christians will never accept us trans... people, as if being accepted by Christians was the determining factor as to whether you were acceptable to God.  That is not how it works.  God does not determine whether you are accepted on the basis of what people think.  To say that another way, God determines what he will think about you independent of what people think.  Rahab was a whore.  David was a murderer and at least an adulterer, if not a rapist.  Saul, who wrote more than 1/3 of the New Testament, was a murderer and persecuter of Christians.  And, I could go on about how the people of God were not perfect people, but they are perfected through Christ.  That's true for everyone who is Christian, including Bruce and me.

     

    In the grand scheme of things, what we wear is on the small side of the scale.  People freak out about the sin that is not their problem.  So, if they don't struggle with an issue, it becomes easy to show their righteousness by being vocal about how wrong that conduct is.  God said this: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."  You all know that the Bible tells us: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"  In other words, Jesus tells us to look at ourselves, rather than to look at others.  To say that more clearly, correct yourselves before you try to correct others.  "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind."

     

    Now, I am going to get out on the fringe.  Christians are taught this, but for the most part have a hard time following it or putting it into practice in how they treat people. Something that is sin for me, may not be sin for you.  There are a few different reasons why this may be the case.  Primarily, it has to do with your purpose.

     

    I will take your slings and arrows, but most of you have been so gracious as to not cast any.  Thank you.

     

    Enjoy,

     

    Wenjoy.

     

    Who made up these fashion rules, anyhow?

    -- Enjoy, Wenjoy. Who made up these fashion rules, anyhow?
      May 25, 2015 2:51 AM BST
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