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Divorcing and the 'unreasonable' transexual

  • Quote

    ''Understandably, my wife believes that it is unreasonable for her to continue to live with me as a woman and now wants a divorce. She does not want to wait two years. Under current divorce laws, the only option she has is to divorce me is on the grounds of ‘unreasonable behaviour’; given that it would be ‘unreasonable’ for the courts to expect her to live with me in a lesbian relationship now that I have revealed to her that I have always considered myself to have been female''.

    Your admission is where the problem lays,   Matters of first impression was your only hope.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at April 26, 2020 6:54 PM BST
      June 1, 2018 9:35 PM BST
  • I was going to throw my sixpence worth into the fray but I've decided not to comment on this thread at all because I don't feel qualified to do so.  I did A Level Law back in the 1970s and I remember Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co and Donoghue v Stevenson but that's about all.

    I think we're very lucky to have Crissie here because she really does know her stuff.

    And whatever happened to Julia Ford?  Is anyone still in touch with her?


    Katie   :)

    <p>Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next without any loss of enthusiasm!</p>
      June 1, 2018 1:44 PM BST
  • Former member, Julia Ford, outspoken, no tact, but someone I loved dearly and knew very well,  a heart of gold,  Perhaps would have been the best Prime Minister this country ever had, for her basic honesty and ''Tell it like it is attitude''   but in defence of the originator of this thread, life is so much more complcated, people like us do try to conform and live up to what is expected of us, ''Social norms'' not understanding that change is inevitable, the unhapiness of trying to live a life that we did'nt subconciously want or need.


    Some  had a sod them attitude, this is what I am, accept it, some like myself starting out very young, confused, frightened, did come out, not with attitude, if my young life was miserable, I was in a It cannot get any worse situation, I realy believe that  people trying to live up to expections and a heteronormativity  way of life do not do it with intent to cause hurt and misery, or are even being nieve, their honest intention at the time, is just that and should not be deemed callous or deceptive with intent.


    Everyones situation, condition, is different, we must not jump to quickly to judge others, with a you must do it this way attitude.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 20, 2017 5:13 PM BST
  • I need to say a few things about this thread. It was not my intention to bring it to a halt , even though in my opinion the original poster had no intention of becoming a part of this website. From begining to end it is easy to see this is just about themself.


    Crissie (Cristine Shye) Has put so much work into this with very little thanks (I thank her). Her work is about the law side and my posts have been about the human side. Crissie is very human and has human emotions just as we all do but she has been 100% professional. As for me? I do not and have no need to be professional. I have concerns for the hurt caused by these situations , hurt that could have been avoided with some honesty from the start.


    I knew from a very young age that my life was not just like anyone elses , I knew I was different and also found out that telling lies gets you no where in life. Yes me being honest about who I was got me into a lot of trouble when I was young but I could not hide what was on the inside , and I knew it was going to find a way out. I never married or fathered any children for that very reason. Yes I tried to have relationships but they all failed because I knew , or should I say felt it was wrong.


    In my 20's I met a woman and something between us just clicked , that had not happened before. She was different than the others , she was I suppose what is known as a Tom Boy.

    After we had been seeing each other for about a week I started to have feelings for her and I knew she had for me too. I had to make a decision and that was to tell her about me. I had to make that decision knowing I would most likely lose her. When I told her her first words were "I knew there was something different about you".


    That week turned into 23 years , 23 Years of love and trust. Just over 12 years ago she died suddenly but she remains in my heart and I think of her everyday , I often have very real dreams about her.

    I have no clue what would have happened if I had not told her but I told her because I knew I could not hide who I was and had no wish to. That is the human side. I did not want a relationship based on lies and deception and our 23 years were about being honest and that is what held us together.


    She bought me a recording and the lyrics turned out to be true apart from the fact that she died. Please listen and you will understand

    This is the one I bought for her


    Before anyone gets any ideas about deleting this post please read it again. If I am going to be picked on for being honest just remember my 23 years of honesty worked unlike what this thread is all about.


    Take care xx

      May 1, 2016 6:08 PM BST
  • I gave this thread 5 stars but it deserves a lot more for the amount of work Crissie has put into it. Yes Crissie had a few Thank you's but in my opinion it is easy to type empty words. In my post which was deleted I stated that. I also used the words selfish and taking the piss , why? Because that is what I see. I am not going to lie for anyone and say anything different.


    Again I thank you Crissie for all of your work , and you know I mean it x.

      March 17, 2016 12:00 AM GMT
  • Yes it was deleted and I expected it to be. I am pleased you appreciate my honesty because that is what it was. I would not call honesty offensive though.


    Take a look at this  and the look on Agnetha Faltskog's face. Look at her eyes it is not acting. The song was written about her divorce and her life was wrecked just as many other females are by dishonesty.


    I forgot to add. If you watch the video and pay attention to Agnetha's face you will see her eye make up change. Although she has admitted this is her favourite song Abba recorded it was very hard for her to record the video , she was filming with her ex husband and still going through the pain of their break up. I stated she was not acting , she is not an actor and eyes tell a story on their own. She had her eye make up re done several times to create this short video and that was due to tears.

    This post was edited by Former Member at April 14, 2016 9:57 PM BST
      March 16, 2016 11:18 PM GMT
  • Julia,
    I've received an email which I think has already been deleted by the moderator for this forum. You are out of order. Unbeknownst to you my decreed absolute is due to be decide upon tommorrow. I have only posted onto this forum what I am comfortable with and no more. I appreciate your honesty, but please respect my openness. This is my life! I am truly grateful for any positive feedback, but you are just being offensive. This post was edited by Alexandra Stone at March 16, 2016 11:04 PM GMT
      March 16, 2016 11:03 PM GMT
  • I think I need to add to this just in case anyone thinks there is any condradiction in what I have posted which I stand by.

    (1) Being transexual is not unreasonable behaviour. It is bloody hard work to gain acceptance in society and I consider myself lucky I have gained acceptance into that society but I had to work at it.

    I have never married or fathered any children but I did lose my family and when I realised I was fighting a losing battle I walked away and that was not easy.


    (2) This is where it gets complicated. When a transexual enters a marriage I am fairly sure most do know what they are doing. I am also fairly sure they know that entering a marriage will not change or give a miracle cure to being who they are.


    (3) After the marriage if the transexual decides to tell their wife and any children that they intend to transition and the family cannot accept it and the marriage breaks down then the transexual should walk away. Walking away from the marriage in a friendly way where possible is obviously ideal but it will not always work that way.

    It is perfectly understandable that the wife can or will feel deceived. It is my opinion that any divorce court should treat both parties with respect. Respect is different from blame but someone has to be the blame/cause. As the wife has done nothing wrong apart expecting her husband to be a man then the cause for the marriage breakdown is the transexuals. Is that unreasonble behaviour by the transexual?. Depending on personal circumstances of the couple that is for the court to decide. If the transexual has acted in ways causing distress or mental harm to the wife after breaking the news then that is unreasonble behaviour.

    Without all of the facts of what went on no one else but the court can decide who is at fault. Both parties will get their say but at the end of the day I think we all know who's side the court will take , because the wife has done nothing wrong. I have never been in a divorve court but I would say that with the evidence provided a fair judgement will be made in the end.

    Take care.

    This post was edited by Former Member at February 15, 2016 5:36 PM GMT
      February 15, 2016 5:34 PM GMT
  • I agree 100% Crissie that transexualism is not unreasonable behaviour , if it were then my whole life has been unreasonable. I also agree that compassion plays a huge part in cases like this one. You know me better than anyone on this website and you also know how much respect I have for you and all that you do and stand for. Your work amazes me and your desire to fullfill your career in law , you know that too.


    A while back I posted what I witnessed at a meeting I was asked to attend. I did not want to go but I did and I am pleased I did because what I witnessed was an unreasonable transexual. I am not comparing this to what I witnessed but I will never forget that night. In short a transexual turns up with their wife and daughter and everything was fine until the transexual starts mouthing off telling their wife and daughter this is me and if you do not like it then pack your bags and go , that was unreasonable behaviour. I spent most of that evening comforting a 16 year old girl and her mother , they were both being mentally tormented not only daily at home but that night also in front of others.

    As the transexual was only thinking of them self I had to do what I could to help the mother and daughter. Knowing they had a 20 mile journey home I made sure they were okay . I had spent over an hour comforting them outside away from everyone else. The transexual was not one bit concerned about the wife and daughter so I told the wife to take the car and both of you leave now. I told them to go home and lock the doors and put your husbands bags on the step and if you get any problems call me or the Police if you need to , so they left.

    I went back in to the so called meeting and  no one even asked if they were okay , it was like they did not exist. When it was time for everyone to go then and only then did the husband ask where is my wife and daughter?. I broke the news that they had left for home over an hour ago and your statement that if you do not like move out it has now been reversed.

    That is only a tiny part of what happened that night but I had to show compassion where it was needed at the time.

    Surely every case is different and if you had witnessed what I did you would say you witnessed unreasonable behaviour , I know you would have because I know you to well as you do me.

    What we need is more understanding and I know from people I have met not everyone is like the person I just mentioned which was cruel heartless and very unreasonable. Transexuals have a hard time I know that because I am one but it does not give any one of them the right to give their family's a hard time. If the marriage has broken down beyond repair then the cause should walk away and the divorce courts should treat them with the same respect as any other person.

    Take care , Julia x


    This post was edited by Former Member at February 13, 2016 7:31 PM GMT
      February 13, 2016 7:30 PM GMT
  • From a legal standpoint, it's my considered opinion that Transexualism is not unreasonable behaviour.   A bit of compassion and understanding for both sides is warranted, moral issues apart, supressing feelings, the desire to conform, is a more complicated issue, and is quite understandable, it was not done for devious reasons.    A scenarion of someone addicted to, perhaps prescribed drugs, pain killers, hoping believing eventually the need will pass, but eventually having to admit they have a problem, the spouse decides this is unreasonable behaviour, goes for a divorce, an anology that is simplistic to say the least, but the emphasis should be on the intention,  dysphoria a mental confusion condition, not fully understood or realised at the time, I think it's sad and we see cases like this all the time, I don't think either party is being unreasonable.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      February 13, 2016 3:41 PM GMT
  • Hi Alexandra.

    The laws concerning your case and others in your situation are complicated and Crissie has made a very good job in explaining them as she always does , it makes my head hurt sometimes just figuring it all out. You are not alone in your situation as you must know , so many transgendered individuals do just as you done. I have asked personally to others faces why did you do it? You must have known it would all end in tears and lives would be ruined , most cannot come up with a reasonable answer. If you ask any adult transexual when did you realise you were assigned the wrong gender at birth the average answer is about 5 or 6 or 7 years old. I know from my own life experience how hard it is to deal with , I would say puberty was one of the hardest parts as hormones are playing silly games in the body. You just as others must have looked in the mirror at a young age confused with that reflection looking back at you. I know how that felt and I rebelled as I could not conform to what society was saying I should be. My rebelling caused me more problems than I could ever imagine and taught me a lot but this is not about me.

    It may sound like it but I am not judging you , you would not want me as a judge in your divorce case yet I understand the pain we all go through. The problem I have is when that pain is put onto innocent people. You mentioned your honesty and I do not doubt your honesty but it came to late.

    The lesson here is be honest from the start. Your story here will help others as when it is read it may just stop them making the same mistake not only you but others make too.

    The only way I can compare the legal system to anything else is by saying to you would you go to the Gender Clinic and lie to them would you?. I would say you would not because you need their help but if the legal system asked you did you know you were transexual the day you married what would your answer be? It would be wrong to lie to the court. I know that you must have known you had a gender identity issue and so do you as it is not like an illness you catch overnight , you are born with it.

    I did not ask about your depression and you beating yourself up about this as somewhere in this thread you mentioned a trip to Sparkle and your posts seem very well balanced , a severely depressed person would not make much sense but your posts are clear and precise. I am no specialist but whatever it is you are taking for your depression seems to be working which is good.

    You did say you have sympathy for your wife but no amount of sympathy can turn back time , as you know the damage to her is done.

    Yes I do have concerns for young transgender people and older ones too and I do all I can when I can to help others understand that being transgendered is as normal as being born black to a black person. Yes the suicide rates are a huge concern to me but things are getting better albeit far to slowly.We are lucky enough to have been born in what I consider to be the safest and most caring country for transgender people in the world. We were unlucky being in the wrong queue when bodies were being handed out but we have to live with it and it is hard work at certian times in our lives. I will not pretent I know the answers to the divorce laws , that is Crissie's department but I do know right from wrong.

    I wish you all the best and when this is all over I hope your wife and you can move on. You could also consider asking your local education department if you could give some awareness talks or something like that so that others can learn direct from you. When you get through this you can find that helping others is very rewarding because you have been there and know what it is like. If you do or just one person reads this and they learnt that being honest with any potential wife or partner from the start is the only way to stop this happening then some good has come from this.

    If any person who was diagnosed with cancer or any other serious illness and went on to marry someone without telling them that would be wrong , saying it is to hard to talk about as most transexuals do does not make it right. I look at things from all sides not just one and the legal system has to do the same. To some it seems unfair and in some cases it is but we have the best here in the UK , and that is just my opinion.

    Take care .

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 30, 2018 8:02 PM BST
      February 13, 2016 9:35 AM GMT
  • Thanks for your post Julia, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to publish your thoughts on this matter; especially when it it something like this that is close to my heart.

    Since comming out, I have heard similar comments from my close friends and colleagues. I do genuinely recognise the hurt and grief that I have caused to my family and closest friends by my honesty. But when was being honest ever legally considered to be 'unreasonable behaviour' ?

    I intentionally posted my query on the transgender law section of this bulletin board.

    I remain acutely aware of the hurt and distress I have caused to those closest to me, by admitting that my feelings were becoming unmanageble and that I had to take steps to resolve the issues I felt with my gender identity. In my opinion, the whole thing is 'unreasonable'. My ex-wife is entitled to feel angry, hurt and decieved, as you say. I just don't think admitting to being transgender should be considered by the legal system 'unreasonable behaviour' in and of itself.

    The problem I felt was with how the law treated me, and which is why I posted my particular thread on the legal section of this board. I don't think that it is acceptable for the legal system to state that my behaviour was 'unreasonable' simply by informing my (then) wife that I felt more female than male, and that I wanted to talk to a doctor about my issues.

    At the point when I told my wife that I believed that I was transgender, I had lived in role as a man and performed my role as husband, father and family man as best that I could. But it just wasn't me. When I told my wife that I could no longer behave in that way, my whole life fell apart. My 'behaviour' had not changed. I had not suddenly taken to wearing dresses or suchlike. I just admitted to my life-partner that I felt different to how I had been gendered. Once said, it's hard to take something like this back; and it's probably why I left it so long to tell people how I truly felt.

    I understand why my wife felt like she did. She didn't sign up to being married to a 'queer'. And I knew when I told her how I felt that I could lose everything; which is exactly what happended.

    I did not stop her from leaving. I recognise that our relationship fell apart. I just believe that there should be a kinder way of legally separating in this sort of case. Why does the legal system have to apportion blame, when all this appears to achieve is to classify me admitting to being transgender as being 'abnormal', and legally recognise that someone like me does not deserve to be married and/or entitled to a family life?

    My wife did not want an annulment, which if following the cliche that 'I always knew that I was female' she was entitled to ask for. Instead she wanted to blame me for telling her that I felt more female than male. I have already spend over two years grieving from the breakdown of my marriage. I don't intend to continue beating myelf up about this.

    I am alone, and have been since I came out (my CBT for anxiety and depression is really helping - thank you for asking). I have been ostrasised from the ones I love the most for being queer.

    As far as your comments regarding youg transgender people, their suicide rates are still a massive concern to me. I doubt this will change, given the 'gayboy' comments still prevalent in school playgrounds today. 

      February 13, 2016 12:20 AM GMT
  • The unreasonable transexual?. This is my opinion on this topic. Crissie and myself have spoken about this thread and Crissie knows my opinion.

    So the poster of this thread thinks their behaviour is not unreasonable?. Well you married a women and you must have known before you took your wedding vows that you had a gender identity problem. You hid that and deceived your wife to be at the time and allowed her to say "I take this man to be my husband" . You then went on to father a child still knowing who you were (unless the child came first).

    Your wife and son have left the marital home , you have not said why. So it could have been because they were ashamed of you or your behaviour and you could have made their lives unbearable , I am guessing here because this is all about you isn't it?.

    I have to base this on others I have known who feel hard done by for their own mistakes. Crissie knows I will take the side of the wife and family because it is deception , you knew what you were doing.

    Some say they try just get on with a normal life in the hope it will just go away , so they get married have children and then realise it will not go away "Foresight is a wonderful thing" it is just a shame some do not use it.

    Sorry but your behaviour is unreasonable. Your main concern in what you have posted here is yourself! In other words it is pure selfishness on your part. Reading this from the outside as I have been you have not really said much about how your wife feels , I mean you drop a bomb shell on her like this and just expect her to except it?. Oh dear it has all gone wrong , you just wanted her to turn into a lesbian just to suit you. Sounds harsh I know but it is what you were expecting was'nt it?.

    So it has all gone pear shapped and for whatever reason your wife and son have moved out and there you are in the marital home thinking it is not your fault and your wife is unreasonable.

    Down to earth time "Your behaviour is unreasonable". If you cannot see that then the divorce court will.

    There is one good thing that comes out of these stories and that is the younger generation can learn from your mistakes. They can learn that it is far better to sort out a gender identity problem before saying "I do" and then having children and messing others lives up. Very few of these stories have happy endings but a tiny minority can and do accept it but there is no written law to say they have to.

    Now you just accept that you made a mistake and that others can learn from your mistake.

    Again sorry for my opinion as it may sound harsh but you wife is human and she has feelings too and it is not all about you.

    Take care and good luck.

    Spell errors corrected at 8.42am GMT

    This post was edited by Former Member at February 12, 2016 8:42 AM GMT
      February 11, 2016 7:04 PM GMT


    Gender Variant People

    Posted by Cristine, Shye April 10, 2011 12:41 AM BST 11 comments 1,077 views

    Many anomalies such as AIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) can arise causing inconsistent development between the various elements by which we know ourselves to be either a man or a women. Among the larger group embracing all these varieties, there is a small subgroup of individuals who experience gender varience The personal experience of this state is sometimes known as gender dysphoria (dysphoria means ‘unhappiness’). The impact of genetic and/or hormonal factors on their fetal development appears to cause parts of the brain to develop in a way which is inconsistent with their genitalia, gonads and, usually, with their chromosomes. This may give rise to another, rather different, example of XY women, that is, individuals whose visible physical sex appears to be that of a man, but whose brain has some female characteristics and whose gender identification is, therefore, that of a woman. Or, conversely, gender variance may occur the other way round. An individual having XX chromosomes and the visible physical sex of a female, may have some male brain characteristics and therefore, identify as a man. So the issue of one's gender identification, whether as a man or as a woman, or even neither (or both which occurs only rarely), is rooted in the brain, and is regarded by the individuals concerned, and is demonstrated by research, to be largely determined pre-birth and more or less stable thereafter.




    Thus the experience of extreme gender variance is increasingly understood in scientific and medical disciplines as having a biological origin. The current medical viewpoint, based on the most up-to-date scientific research, is that this condition, which in its extreme manifestation is known as transexualism is strongly associated with unusual neurodevelopment of the brain at the fetal stage. Small areas of the brain are known to be distinctly different between males and females in the population generally. In those experiencing severe gender variance, some of these areas have been shown to develop in opposition to other sex characteristics and are, therefore, incongruent with the visible sex appearance.


    Gender Variant Children


    Very rarely, children may express this incongruence between gender identity and the genital sex, but their discomfort is not always easy to identify. Symptoms of unease with the assigned gender role and the visible sex appearance are often only apparent to the individuals concerned and may not be understood even by them. If these children are unable to articulate their unease, their discomfort may grow through adolescence and into adulthood, as their families and society, in ignorance of their underlying gender identity, relentlessly reinforce gender roles in accordance with their physical appearance alone. However, some children are able to express a strong cross-sex identification, and sometimes insist on living in the opposite role. In particular, the increasing disgust with the development of secondary sex characteristics experienced by young people during puberty may be taken as a strong indication that the condition will persist into adulthood as transsexualism. Therefore, in carefully screened individuals, hormone blocking treatment may be given, before pubertal changes become apparent, so that these young people have more time to decide in which gender role they can achieve lasting personal comfort. There is no evidence that raising children in contradiction to their visible sex characteristics causes gender variance, nor can the condition be overridden by raising children in strict accordance with a gender role that is consistent with their visible sex.

    Those who are not treated in adolescence may continue to struggle to conform; they may embark on relationships, marriages and parenthood in an attempt to lead ‘normal’ lives by suppressing their core gender identity. Ultimately, however, they may be unable to continue with the charade of presenting themselves as something they know they are not. The artificiality of their situation drives individuals to seek treatment to minimise the mismatch between the brain and the bodily appearance. They experience an overwhelming need to be complete, whole people and to live in accordance with their internal reality. Until this is achieved, the personal discomfort is such that it leads to great unhappiness and sometimes to suicidal feelings.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      February 4, 2016 7:25 PM GMT
  • My solicitor recieved a certificate from the Courts notifying me that the pronouncement of the Decree Nici will happen on February 3rd (day before my birthday - strange kinda B'day present)....

      January 25, 2016 12:07 AM GMT
  • It's been a while, but my divorce does seems to be progressing, albeit slowly. The courts are apparently a bit backlogged following Christmas, but I should hear something soon.

    My wife has agreed to divorce on the basis of cross-petitions; i.e. that we both submit our petitions to the court at the same time, me arguing that my wife is acting unreasonably, and my wife arguing that I am acting unreasonalbly. It feels a bit Bizarre, but at least I get my say, and the upside is that as a joint petitioner, I am entitled to apply for a decree absoulte after the statutory 6weeks and a day following the issue of the decree nici - as opposed to the three months I would have to wait as the 'respondent'.

    Even more Bizarrely, my wife has apparently been advised by her solicitor that she should not proceed to a decree absolute until the finances have been sorted out. After all this effort on my wife's part, this feels somewhat peculiar, so once the decree nici has been issued I am considering applying for the absoulte myself - if not simply to obtain an element of closure asap.

    Apparently after recearching cross-petitions on the internet I discovered that Peter Andre and Katie Price also elected to divorce by cross petition! I'm expecting a phone call from Heat Magazine forthwith!


      January 20, 2016 1:28 AM GMT
  • Jessica Nova I just read the "Divorcing and the 'unreasonable' transsexual" thread. Wow it got me thinking. What a good thread! I have never been married but did lose a long term relationship of many years when I came out. It saddens me that trans people who are trying to deal with serious dysphoria and help themselves so often wind up being discriminated against in the process to do so. Surely now with certain protection laws in the books a good lawyer should be able to have a fighting chance to not penalize trans people during divorce procedures

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      January 18, 2016 9:28 PM GMT
  • An update some comments even.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      January 11, 2016 12:42 PM GMT
  • Dysphoria from the Greek a mental  attitude of not being satisfied; discontentment, confusion

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      December 1, 2015 8:09 PM GMT
  • Interestingly, in the US, according to the Diagnosis and Statistics Manual IV (DSM 5) transgenderism is no longer considered a disorder.  What used to be referred to as Gender Identity Disorder is now Gender Disporia.

      December 1, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
  • So as far as the medical-legal situation in the UK is concerned, a person who
    fits the diagnostic criteria F64.0 for transsexualism is suffering from a mental
    disorder, which might be caused by genetic abnormalities or an inherited condition. and not a mental illness. Interestingly, the treatment regime is also well defined. In the do***ent

    “Guidelines For Health Organisations Commissioning Treatment Services For
    Individuals Experiencing Gender Dysphoria And Transsexualism” it is stated:
    “All commissioning bodies and health care practitioners, whether in private practice or
    the NHS, should also be aware that unnecessary, non-clinical delay in administering
    hormones or moving to the surgical stage of treatment could result in legal challenges.”


    Transsexualism – the current UK medical and legal standpoint

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      November 30, 2015 9:54 PM GMT
  • Not forgetting if you have an unsympathetic staid Judge, he might still rule against you, it is what the petitioner considers unreasonable behaviour that is the accepted criteria, its my experience that judges tend to dislike people who represent themselves and a lot of them have a total dislike for McKenzie friends, law on the cheap, an anology would be foriegn plumbers coming over to the UK and doing work on the cheap, doing so called UK experienced plunbers out of work and a living.   The legal system in this country is very self centred and closed rank.   I will put together some basis of proof for submission and references to substantiate and aid your claim for first impression.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      November 1, 2015 3:51 PM GMT
  • Many thanks. I intend to use the next few weeks preparing my 'introduction to the bench' on this basis, which I will post up for comments.

      October 31, 2015 2:30 PM GMT
  • I have appeared as a Mckenzie friend in Southwark Crown court and a couple of magistrates courts, A Mckenzie friend cannot speak directly to a bench or address or argue a case with the opposing side directly, only advising the person, who then has to argue the case themselves.   In the case in southwark Crown court, the person I was advising used my arguments and reasoning to further their defence, but the judge ruled against us saying my arguments were ill advised and a barrister should have been appointed to make representation, and more or less said to my friend that you get what you pay for.   At the appeal the new judge ruled the previous judge was wrong in his summation of the facts and the opposing law firm was censured for their presentation and notifications to the respondant with misleading information about attending what was then a scheduled hearing, my arguments were adopted by the barrister at the subsequent appeal and a precedent was set, and I did receive some credit for my reasoning.   But I was noted and warned about the loyalty and one master clause in my contract by the head of chambers where I am currently employed as a research assistant, so regretably I could not advise you in court.

    ''Submitting a cross petition (on the grounds that that my wife is now behaving unreasonably in asking the courts to end a marraige before she is legally entitled to do so in law)''

    In law your wife is entitled to petition for divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour, nothing in that contravenes existing divorce law. or affects her entitlement to do so, coming out as transgender is a cited example of unreasonable behaviour.  (existing divorce laws grounds for) and in my opinion your response in citing her unreasonable behavour is a misnomer from the start, based on established facts and past case law.  It is my considered opinion that your counter petition must be based on matters of first impression using the rule of inference. using an introduction to the bench using that format.



    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at October 31, 2015 4:08 PM GMT
      October 31, 2015 2:14 PM GMT
  • Thanks Christine and Lucy. This is helping me to understand and clarify my position.

    My solicitor took the view that by submitting only an answer to my wife's original position (see above) that it would risk the matter being settled by the magistrates court without a hearing. Given that we both are arguing that the marriage is over irreconcilably, my solicitor was of the opinion that a ruling would probably be made that our marraige was indeed over and that I was entirely to blame, without fully considering the matter of whether seeking treatment for transexualism demonstrates 'unreasonable behaviour'.

    Submitting a cross petition (on the grounds that that my wife is now behaving unreasonably in asking the courts to end a marraige before she is legally entitled to do so in law) has at least permitted me to have the case heard in front of a judge, so in this respect I feel that I have achieved something, and that I will be able to have my say.

    I am hopeful that I will be allowed to make the above arguments in court, i.e. 'to make a case that  being transgendered is an anomily under the divorce act regarding the 5 outcomes,and the entered examples that coming out as transgender is quoted and used as unreasonable behaviour , refering to the GRA in its original form 2005 and as ammended in 2010 and the subsequent revision to the marriage act, that being transgendered, a recognised medical condition and therefor should not be used as an example of unreasonable behaviour' ..... thank you so much for this. It's really useful.

    Also, I been reading the Law Society guidelines on self-representation at court and they mention the use of McKenzie friends in court. Christine, is this something you would be interested in helping me with? I am presently waiting for the time and date of my hearing at Northampton Family Court. I would love a bit of support...and to be honest I'm a bit nervous about going alone, so please let me know if you are interested :)

      October 31, 2015 1:30 PM GMT