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A Tipping point, help, where next?

  • Hi Nathalie

    You sound so much like I was when married slowly trying to get away with wearing more and more feminine clothes, my wife use to complain about the clothes I wore I use to always ask her if a item was ok or not and if she said no I would leave it but in the end I went to far and we were out and she said people keep looking at us and think we are a gay couple but that she was the butch one not me and this brought my crossdressing to a final demand that either stoped or she would leave me so as I loved her I stoped again but not long after that she told me she was leaving me for a friend of ours who left his wife as well, so as she asked me to divorce her I agreed as it was what she wanted in the end I downloaded all of the forms from the internet filled them in got her to sign them I put them into our local county court along with £60 in 6 weeks it came back granting the divorce Nicki after that I paid an extra £20 waited 2 months and received the decree absolute and that was the end of 24 years of marriage  it was most likely the most simple divorce on record after a year of working I thought I don't know why I was bothering I had a 4 bedroom house with just two of us living there as my son had stayed with me but was in the process of buying his own house so I decided so pack in work sell the house and go sailing around the Caribbean which I did for 10 years.

    sorry I wandered off subject for a while I wanted to say from all the people I have talked to all were ok with me and accepting that I was transgender but when asked if they would be ok if their husband came out as transgender and all of them said no it is ok for other people but not for them so I would advise that if you want to stay married then you will have to not go to far with the crossdressing but if the crossdressing changes to being transgender then you may have to accept that the marriage may be lost.

     

    Good luck to you finding which is better for you.

    Regards Poppy Ann 

      September 9, 2018 12:49 PM BST
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  • I was in an identical scenario, where my partner was accepting of me cross-dressing but not taking it further. The first thing I did was get her a counsellor to help her cope with what I was asking. 

    I found a really good article of someone else going through a similar phase as us (good news is we aren't alone), she explained something very fundamental about the honesty and authenticates of her actions, both past and future, helped me to articulate my own thoughts and frame the situation:

    https://www.facebook.com/Misty.Rei/photos?pnref=lhc 

    http://fatedendeavor.livejournal.com/

      January 8, 2018 8:16 AM GMT
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  • Hi,Nathalia. Hope we can all help. I'm lucky ,My wife is supportive of  me being cd/tg... It was difficult at first .She was frightened ,thinking I didn't love her any more. We have been able to work out limits that we can both live with. We've become involved with and made friends with other couples like ourselves. Parties, and outings as a group have helped. Part of our arrangement is to find things we can do together as a 'vanilla' couple. For us ,it works. YMMV! Hugs Jan.

    <p>Hugs,Jan</p>
      January 3, 2018 5:00 AM GMT
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    Hi Sweetie,

    I have never written here before so I am not even sure if this is going to come out right.  But here we go...

     

    I don't know remember you saying how long you have been married but I am pretty sure she will feel a sense of betrayal by you hiding things from her. Marriage is an intimate level of trust, a bond that shouldn't be broken.  When betrayal hurts the most is when it comes from those closest to you, those whom you trust because it is where you least expect it to come from.  It is ludicrous at best and even a moot point to ponder what you should have done, way back when.  On that point you are beating a dead horse.  What's done is done and cannot be changed.  If you are going to move ahead you can't look back, i.e., you can't steal 2nd if you're looking back at 1st.

     

    I think you need to be honest with her but you need to phrase your words carefully and truthfully.  There are several things to consider.  When dressed, do you look like a cross dresser i.e., nothing more than a guy living out his fantasies dressed in woman's clothes, or a drag queen, or something that just waltzed out of Ringling Brothers?  In other words, something she would be embarrassed or ashamed of to be seen with or would she be proud to be seen in public with you? Do you try your best to be the best looking woman you can be?  Look at pictures of great looking TSs and compare yourself, learn from them.  I say, if you want to win her over, set the bar high and go for it.

     

    However, looking great may go against what you are trying to accomplish, especially if she is self-conscious about herself, her looks, or her body and if you look better than her. Most women are insecure about something. I knew a woman who was very self-conscious because she was flat-chested and reacted very negatively because her cross dressing husband not only looked better than her but had larger boobs. How confident is your wife about herself, her looks and sexuality? Would she see it as a threat or is she confidant and strong enough in herself to have fun with it as I have know several women have done so? I had a friend whose wife told him, “I married a man, not a woman. I am not a lesbian.” Whether or not we merit that as a valid point is of no account. What matters is how she perceives it. That is her reality, what she has to live with.

     

    There are two dogs within you viciously fighting for dominance. Which one will win? The one you feed most. If your wife will not put up with a cross dressing man, you are going to have to make a choice and stick to it. This will be hard. In many ways divorce is worse than death if she is the love of your life. You need to decide what you love more, your wife/marriage or cross dressing.  If you decide to stay and work on the marriage you need to put all your energies into her and on that marriage relationship and don’t feed the other dog. Turning all your energies toward her may turn her on and she may give back more than cross-dressing every could, if she feels special and that she is first in your life, your true partner. If she really feels as you say she feels, I don’t think you can have your cake and eat it too. Cross dressing will not fulfill you anywhere near a true loving marriage relationship will. Both of you will have to give 100% towards each other.  You are each others half. You are truly partners, connected on so many levels.  Cross dressing doesn't even come close. Sure I could tell you it is going to be easy and tell you what you want to hear. But a friend will tell you when your zipper is down or you’ve run your nylons in back. Friends who tell you what you want to hear are a dime a dozen and not worth your friendship.

     

    This post was edited by j s at December 31, 2017 5:16 AM GMT
      December 27, 2017 2:06 AM GMT
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  • How do you begin revealing to your adult children? Now that a part of me is revealed (labelled “cross dressing”) I want to talk more about it. The fact that my wife brought it into the open recently with my (adult) daughters, has (surprisingly for me) been a big relief. They also want to be part of the discussion LOL, though they are concerned I am embarking on a voyage that will take me away from them. There is also a curious excitement within me to share everything about me and my feelings, but that would be far too much for anyone to digest. There is a lot for anyone to get their head around. They will be home for the holidays soon and they have said let's talk about it then. I had a plan to dress gender fluid / young. eg super tight jeans or even to continue my new "at home" outfits with black opaque tights. The idea is to show that it is not scary/ horrible / weird and to ask for this part of me to be accepted, but I'm rethinking as it might "shatter" the image of me that they have; I don't want to shatter, rather to reveal gently and slowly. Still, as a part of me is now revealed, and labelled cross dressing, I am sure it will become a topic of conversation. The question for me is what and how much to say. Can anyone make some recommendations on the next steps in coming days?

      December 18, 2017 4:56 PM GMT
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  • I go in waves; some days calm & confident, then angst-filled & depressed. Today I'm calm and confident and feeling good after reading all these messages. It made me think a lot. You helped me realize that there is possibly another way; my wife said “you cannot have your cake and eat it - why can't you be normal; I can't live with a TV; I want a man” and I thought it automatically meant I had to move out to be me - but you've given me hope that it could work (BIG "could") and the key is go slowly, accept some limitations. My eyes have also been opened to seeing it from her point of view -  I was so selfish and had periods of being obsessed and consumed by the thinking, the urge, OMG how strong that urge can be sometimes - resisting it has caused me so much angst & depression in the past; almost driven me to.... well let's not go there. I know it is a small step but just having my wife accept that I can walk about the house in tights / shorts has been really helpful. I am going to say a big thank you to her.

      December 18, 2017 4:36 PM GMT
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  • Hi Nathalia...

    Once I learned to accept myself as myself and truly learned to love myself just the way I was, confidence became easy...if you're unsure of yourself in public, perhaps spend time in a crowded mall or city avenue where you can observe others for long periods.  you'll discover many enlightening things such as most people are caught up in their own world and do not actually "see" what's around them.  you'll also notice how women move, how they comport themselves, their posture, their arm motions, the way they speak, etc.  Try to blend in rather than make a statement with your dress and actions.  Wear age appropriate clothing and just walk around acting like you belong on this planet as much as anybody else.  You see, people notice when others are uncomfortable and begin to look much closer at them.  That is when it is really difficult for us.  Avoid kids...they have special radar!  LOL  Just relax hun and go about your business...it really gets a lot easier...

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      December 18, 2017 2:17 PM GMT
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  • Traci, Cristine, thanks sooo much for all this useful info. I have to admit I am still digesting all the scientific writing. I totally get the heteronormativity and constructionist pieces. The etiology piece, even though a synopsis, had me confused but I will read again. There is so much more to me than I originally thought. I always thought I was different, and have always been compelled to be different, mostly in subtle ways, but I believe in myself - I have always derived confidence from this attitude, but it can take a knock when it confronts heteronormativity - I am my own special creation.

    Traci your story is wonderful. Thanks again for sharing it; I had found it some time ago and thought that would be an amazing place to arrive at, a compromise that allows me to be me, and for me to be with my wife as we do adore each other really.

    One of the biggest obstacles in my mindset is a huge fear of the public, and a lack of confidence in going out, probably because of my own nurturing, and the heteronormative conditioning that says this is wrong. I am conflicted in my own thinking. How do I work on overcoming this? do I just disregard everyone one around me and care less or not at all about their fixed binary views??

    Nathalia

      December 18, 2017 10:43 AM GMT
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  • Thnx Crissie!!!  You know how I feel about you girl! (smile)

    xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      December 14, 2017 5:17 AM GMT
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  • I know I have posted and shared my thoughts and experience on this very topic many, many times.  It's in the archives but perhaps not so readily apparent.  I will share it again, albeit a briefer synopsis.  To those who are confused or are seeking answers, just look up me and my posts...while there might be 500 or more, only some pertain to this.

    OK...I'm happily married almost 38 years but have had severe gender dysphoria since age of 3 or so...I have dressed all of my life and it is only in the past 10 years that I went "all in" and 8 years on HRT.  Like so many of you, I want to keep my marriage intact as my wife is my best friend among other things.  She is the thing I hold most dear in my life...

    Growing up, (I'm 67 now) I felt I was alone and saw no light at the end of the tunnel despite dreaming every night of waking up to find I had physically morphed to a female.  It was on and off regarding dressing and marriage put a temporary halt to this.  But I never felt different inside, just felt I'd make the best of it and do all I could to make myself in a male role.

    I kept this from my wife until 10 years ago and then dropped the bomb on her...lots of teary discussions but one thing remained constant and that was I made sure she knew I loved her and that I would never change.  Over time, despite my obvious physical morphing from the HRT, the far more feminine outward appearance (hair, smooth, soft, clear skin, nails, andro clothing), and all, she began to see that I would not "change" as me despite all of the changes.  This led to discussing what were considered "boundaries" that she could be OK with and what she couldn't tolerate.  What was most amazing about the hormones was not the physical morphing and breasts and butt and all, but rather the mental changes.  I had begun to lose the "need" to present or dress as female.  Heck, I was one and my mind was at peace!  I'd found my ultimate "happy place" inside and virtually all of my lifelong anger, aggression, anxiety, and angst over my gender issues just melted away.  and I've also learned that while one does "change" physically, you will still be "you" inside.  So if you carry life baggage (non-gender) into transition, that is not going to go away.  You're still going to be you!!!!  It was quite liberating to say the least!

    So by discussing what was "acceptable" or not, we came up with a series of "compromises".  You see, my wife loves me like I love her...neither wanted us to part, ever!!!  And the compromises were actually skewed in my favor meaning I could live as Traci everyday for as long as I needed, just not in front of her, the grown children, our neighbors, or social circle!!!  Geez, that was quite a wonderful thing as I'm retired and am free to pursue whatever I wish...each of us have mutual friends but we also have our own circle of friends totally apart from each other.  There was little or no chance of running into each other.  (We live in a metropolitan region of over 2 million)  My outside hobbies/interests keep me in the circle of music, art, and the likes...My wife gives me "space".  Therefore, I'm up each morning and out the door doing whatever any other woman might...I return whenever I'm done but generally spend about 4-8 hours out.  I also spend quality time with her daily because I love being with her...

    So to sum it up, yes, to rush into transition and drop the bomb on the world is a recipe for total disaster.  do allow others to transition SLOWLY with you.  Also, in order to keep what you have, do not make demands expecting the world to understand and agree with you.  It is not as easy as black and white.  Accept a lot of "grey" in your world until things become "normal".  Do discuss in bits and pieces, slow steps at a time in order to process everything, your thoughts and take on it all while being completely cognizant of the woman in front of you and her feelings.  If you wish hold on to her, do think about compromises and boundaries and "negotiate" gently.  I've found that for every step I give up, she's allowing me two steps forward.  In time I'm going to be exactly where I ought to be and until then, I'm very much in love and living a wonderful life!

    Hope this helps...

    Traci xoxo

     

    As a moderator I can add to or edit individual posts.    This posts is probably one of the best personal, profound, honest things I have ever read.   I think this is the first time I have added directly to a personal post.    I felt it deserved a special direct endorsement not some insignificant follow up.    I have know Traci from this site quite a few years, someone I respect and watched evolve into the wonderful person she has turned out to be.

    Cristine Shye.

    <p>Traci</p>
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at January 9, 2018 9:43 PM GMT
      December 13, 2017 10:39 PM GMT
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  • 44. In sum, gender identity, whether consistent or inconsistent with other sex characteristics, may be understood to be “much less a matter of choice and much more a matter of biology” (Coolidge et al., 2000). The scientific evidence supports the paradigm that transsexualism is strongly associated with the neurodevelopment of the brain (Zhou et al., 1995; Kruijver et al., 2000). It is clear that the condition cannot necessarily be overcome by “consistent psychological socialisation as male or female from very early childhood” and it is not responsive to psychological or psychiatric treatments alone (Green, 1999). It is understood that during the fetal period the brain is potentially subject to the organising properties of sex hormones (Kruijver et al., 2000; 2001; 2002; 2003). In the case of transsexualism, these effects appear to be atypical, resulting in sex-reversal in the structure of the BSTc, and possibly other, as yet unidentified, loci (Kruijver, 2004). The etiological pathways leading to this inconsistent development almost certainly vary from individual to individual, so no single route is likely to be identified. Different genetic, hormonal and environmental factors, acting separately or in combination with each other, are likely to be involved in influencing the development of the psychological identification as male or female. Psychosocial factors and cultural mores are likely to impact on outcomes (Connolly, 2003).
    Gender Differences in Human Brain: A Review Z.F Zaidi The Open Anatomy Journal, 2010, 2, 37-55
    CONCLUSION The male and the female brains show anatomical, functional and biochemical differences in all stages of life. These differences begin early during development due to a combination of genetic and hormonal events and continue throughout the lifespan of an individual
    Cristine Jennifer Shye** Beware the toes you tread on today, they might be attached to the arse your forced to kiss tomorow. Contenplating involvement with a man? Make sure you can cook realy well or face having sex on a regular basis. Men are like paving slabs, lay them properly, they will stay put and you can walk over them for ever.
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at December 13, 2017 7:47 PM GMT
      December 13, 2017 5:27 PM GMT
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  • Gender may well be the most basic element that makes up human personality. In fact, gender is so basic to our identity that most people mistakenly assume
    our sense of being male or female is defined with absolute certainty by our anatomical sex. Contrary to popular belief, one’s sense of gender and one’s anatomical sex are two distinct elements each developing at different times in different parts of the body.   More theories surround what causes Gender Identity Disorder and where it originates. These theories are sub-categories in two very popular sociological theory bases, Social Constructionism and Essentialism (Stein, 1999).

    What started out as a criticism of socially constructed roles developed into a theory of gender, which denied Essentialism Gender Identity Disorder 50 in every form, stating instead that society took the biological differences of procreation, and instilled in them an artificial behavioral difference. The theory denies that there is any natural basis for gender identity. Thus, it denies to transgender people any rational cause, while at the same time presenting no reason why not. To some authors this meant that transgender people were free to express themselves in any manner they chose since all gender expression is a valid as any other. Only societal convention stands in the way of such freedom. Such conventions can be modified by the society as is deemed desirable. To some, all such restrictions are to be avoided in a live and let live ethos. Other authors, Janice Ramond and Germain Greer, being notable examples, saw male-to-female transgender people as exploitive of women, supporting the artificial sexist forms that oppress women. It is interesting that in this regard they exhibit a hidden Essentialism, one that focuses on the genitalia as defining classes of human beings. They decried the restrictions on one class, while despising those of the other class when they break those very restrictions


    Still the existence of transgender people poses a challenge to the social constructionist theory. One must explain both why gender identity exists, how it is perpetuated, enforced, and why some rare individuals chose to express a gender identity at odds with socially prescribed gender expression norms.

     

    Cristine Jennifer Shye** Beware the toes you tread on today, they might be attached to the arse your forced to kiss tomorow. Contenplating involvement with a man? Make sure you can cook realy well or face having sex on a regular basis. Men are like paving slabs, lay them properly, they will stay put and you can walk over them for ever.
      December 13, 2017 5:16 PM GMT
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  • I have written articles and put together articles by reputable researchers. long read but to me worthwhile.

     

    https://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7790/synopsis-of-the-etiology-of-gender

     

    https://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7805/heteronormativity

     

    https://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/9870/cns-brain-male-feminisation

     

     

    Cristine Jennifer Shye** Beware the toes you tread on today, they might be attached to the arse your forced to kiss tomorow. Contenplating involvement with a man? Make sure you can cook realy well or face having sex on a regular basis. Men are like paving slabs, lay them properly, they will stay put and you can walk over them for ever.
      December 13, 2017 5:01 PM GMT
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  • Does anyone have links to any useful articles for my situation that I can share with my wife, coz she's looking and I am sure finding UNhelpful ones ??

    Thanks to all again. You're so supportive! yes I am complex, :-) and I understand transitioning has to feel absolutely right, so I'm not rushing anywhere at the moment,  I'm rather going with the flow. Actually I feel soooo much better for having had this forum conversation.

    Cristine, you're so right, and thanks for the song! I can relate to that.

     

    NatXXX 

      December 13, 2017 4:50 PM GMT
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  • A lost soul, nobody can tell you what you have to do, ''there are a few ''go for it'' types, the onus is upon the person, to think over how it will reflect on their own lives, calculating the losses and the gains.

     

    All therapists trained in Gender Disorder issues will state, for genuine GID there is no cure, in the old days, electrical aversion therapy was a failure.    Which might have worked for the fetish group who got sexual kicks from wearing feminine clothes.

     

    Nobody must tell anybody they have to go for it, but as a group we must support and offer advice and a what to do to make it easier once a person has chosen to transition,   It would destroy me personally if someone was to come back on here and blame me for pushing them into something that destroyed their family, careers, whatever,

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc6Ijrkm4Y0

    Cristine Jennifer Shye** Beware the toes you tread on today, they might be attached to the arse your forced to kiss tomorow. Contenplating involvement with a man? Make sure you can cook realy well or face having sex on a regular basis. Men are like paving slabs, lay them properly, they will stay put and you can walk over them for ever.
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at December 13, 2017 4:43 PM GMT
      December 13, 2017 4:04 PM GMT
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  • The hard part is losing the weight. If I could only stop drinking beer...lol.

      December 13, 2017 2:00 PM GMT
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  • Hi Nathalia.  Having read your posts since my last I have realised that your situation is far more complicated than my own. I guess that the biggest difference is that my wife has been with me throughout my journey form me first asking for nice lingerie as a birthday present back in my early 30's. I too am now drifting in to full time dressing and am going to see a doctor to discuss this part of my life and maybe get more of a handle on it next week. However I feel that I am nowhere near wanting to fully transition but this drift does worry me a little. I do however have one last piece of advice:

    It is a perplexing fact that a well turned out fit / slim cross dresser (even rather flat chested) will tend to fulfill our societies idea of a perfect female shape more than a borne  female with the curves / cuddly bits that come with family etc. Ironic considering that we generally want to be more curvy! The only times that my wife has been upset were when she felt that I was more feminine than she felt at that point. Often this coincided with periods etc and I have learned to be very careful not to push her in to a bad comparison corner. Even leaving off dressing in her company for extended periods while she lost the few pounds that were causing an issue. Oh and LOTS OF NONE PHYSICAL LOVE! Might be worth thinking about? Good luck, Robyn xxx

      December 13, 2017 1:47 PM GMT
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  • At least you were honest with her.

      December 12, 2017 1:50 PM GMT
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  • Christine has given you some blunt, down to earth, truth about what transition really means. I came out to my wife in 2006 that I was trans and had been on hormones for 1 1/2 years at that point. It did not go over well, but I fought hard to keep our marriage together. I told her I could stop hormones, that lasted one week. As she began to accept my circumstances I told her I could just go back and forth from dressing as a woman and living as a man. In 2008 I went full-time. When I went full-time and she was forced into a position of having to tell others, they told her to run. Likewise people in my life told me I should divorce and move on. Nonetheless I continued fighting to keep our marriage together. After going full-time I told her I could live without having my SRS. In 2010 I went to Thailand and had my surgery with one of the finest surgeons in the world. In 2011 I sat down and told her I wanted to experience men. Somehow we seemingly stayed together, but our relationship was no longer easy to define. We were not husband and wife. Sisters? She already had sisters. Friends, roommates, etc. We had become two different people. As I moved forward in my new life she tagged along, but the reality is she was lost back when it all began and became very depressed. Our divorce was final in 2016.

    I think that is the domino effect your wife worries about. It's real, it happens to a lot of us whether we want it to or not. I've been fortunate and enjoy a good life as a woman. I can only hope one day my now ex-wife will live a good life. 

      December 12, 2017 2:32 AM GMT
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  • Dear Nathalia

    To be honest I have no set plans at the moment and just go with the flow.  I was hoping to attend a LGBT night out but this looks to be out of the question at the moment, due to her fears of me being found out and the issues that could cause her and the Kids, and also the kids are ill with coughs and colds and they need sympathy and tissues. But there will be other chances and opportunities so I cant just be selfish as others have needs as well. 

    I found that pushing things was not good in a number of ways, I got angry and frustrated and that made me feel worse about myself.  Also I hated putting my wife under pressure and I found that I was becoming selfish and distant.  My wife is the same where she doesn't want to see me as Sara, though she has seen pictures of me and the occasional bumping in to me at home when she allows me time. 

    Having decided that I would stop pressuring her and being selfish, I went with the flow.  Then one day she was having a sort out of clothes for the charity box and I was helping her and some bits were too good to give away so she just passed them to me.  The make up thing happened as she was fed up of the mess I would make with the powders and so she gave me some ideas.  We then were shopping as man and wife and we were in a ladies shop with her trying on things,  I got bored and started looking through the dresses and then suddenly she was at my shoulder.  It was lovely when she turned round and said it was a lovely dress and though it wouldn't suit her I should get it.  Now I have some scarfs and live off hand me downs from both her and my daughter (which is sweet).

    Like any relationship it is compromise and listening to each other.  I always feel bad for her as she married a man in all senses and this is difficult to her though she does acknowledge the distress I can find myself in at times. 

    As I have said I am just going with the flow, I try to educate myself as much as I can to understand where in the rainbow I fit and am comfortable with.  I have found that there is a lot of pressure to just divorce go your own way and transition fully,  but its not for everyone and can be more damaging in the long run.  Though there is little scene here I talk to several transgenders on various sites and have been inspired by their journeys and humbled by their advice. 

    In our "day lives" we can be come jealous of others or down about our situation wanting to be, more successful, better jobs, more kids, more money, fancier clothes and have a sexier wife on our arms, the reality is this too can be only a fantasy due to our negative thoughts about ourselves.  The same is true of transitioning we can have all the pin ups and want to be them, the reality is that there is only so much a surgeon can do with what we have, you can't suddenly be your favorite female star.  We can also be left by transitioning to whatever stage,  further isolated by friends, families have trouble finding and keeping jobs.  As such you should listen to your psy, knowledgeable people and make sure within your own self you are ready and happy to make the next step.

    hopefully this helps you and others

    This post was edited by Sara Calypso at December 13, 2017 8:24 AM GMT
      December 11, 2017 12:36 PM GMT
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  • Hi Sara,

    Thanks for dipping into this one! Your wife sounds very progressive, by shopping with you for clothes etc her. My wife and I are very progressive thinkers, but what seems to block her is the simple reason that she is attracted to men and wants me to be a man /manly.  I told her the other day that because she is the very bestest friend I have, I wanted to be open with her as my friend. I think she appreciated that. I was perhaps misguided by wanting to have her (as my wife) see me at home in a dress /tights etc.  One of the issues is that if she cannot accept me for who/what I truly am, then I am compelled to hide it, be secretive, and that is not good for me; it reinforces a psychological fear that it is “unacceptable”, and makes me fearful of being “found out” and that feeds more anxiety. And so the spiral continues. I want to break that cycle. I have often thought of leaving but that is driven by a fear fright/flight reaction to difficult situations. I do so much want her to understand me and to accept all of me, so I can be myself. I understand her reaction about wanting to see me as a man (only) and I am sure we can work on some rules, but at the moment I see it a long way off that she will accept that I dress or go out en femme. You know that would relieve a huge anxiety for me: when I think about going out, the fear of being found out (by her) is powerful, and that feels like restraining me, so I get frustrated, and I hate it. Maybe it is best to go slowly; my psy says don’t go too far too fast. And my wife also says don’t push me. She has said the tights are ok, but I don’t (yet???) want to see you in makeup and a dress. LOL. What are your plans for next steps, and do tell me how you managed to reach an agreement about shopping for clothes and makeup?

    XXX Nathalia.

      December 11, 2017 10:14 AM GMT
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  • This is such a great thread and just reading it I felt a lump in my throat and my eyes filling up.

    I have the same issues about being myself or what I feel is my true self.  I too struggle with my wife and how she views me, she sent me to the Doctor a while ago in the hope that he would just say I was kinky or had a fetish and I would grow out of this fascination she was upset and confused when I came back with the news that the doctor believed me to be bi-gendered and that to help with my anxiety I should try to be more my true self. Over time she has allowed me to shop with her for clothes and cosmetics but does not want to see me as I feel I am and she does not want me to go out as I am and certainly not to town, which is very difficult. 

    Its been a slow process to get this far with many times feeling it was two steps forward three steps back.  Like you my wife is my soul mate and best friend and so I try to keep her feelings in view and abide by her wishes and just keep talking and reassuring her.

      December 10, 2017 6:50 PM GMT
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  • Christine,

    I can share with you my childhood story for your research / info, I prefer to do that separately 1 to 1.

    Yes your spot on: it is not just cross dressing or pervert; there is something else deeper in there. For the time being I am trying to calm things down with my wife, and have a conversation; though that is not easy as it easily goes off the rails; she says she has had “too much to put up” (though she knows only a tiny part of what I have been going through all these years). I have managed, but with plenty of ups and downs, and deep downs too. I do need to understand more from her side; as you say, she wants a man, not necessarily a butch macho type, but a protector, so she gets unsettled with long nails, shaved legs, but has put up with it. I think she also feels unloved, though we can have a great laugh together and think th same on many things. However, I am constantly distracted, and having moods and swinging wildy from being great husband, gardener, homey etc to being restless and “unstable”.

     

    The articles you sent are helpful.  The other major thing is that we have reached a major milestone as kids have left home to uni / work, and we are struggling with finding new things to do together as a couple, we’ve kind of lost our way: she is content to be at home, with her role as non-working (she resents that situation) being wife, mother, housekeeper, nice home and garden stuff, but I have a wild side that wants go to go out, like I said, to enjoy company lights music fun bars etc. When I feel down  I tend to swing to my alter ego and become obsessed with my fem side, maybe as a sort of escape from reality, for comfort -  I feel calmer there, but constantly feel watched, judged by others which is disconcerting, and that then  makes me a bit paranoid, and the cycle starts over again; it’s not helped by my rejection hang-up, I’ve always wanted from childhood to be loved, and didn’t feel it, and wanted therefore always to please people, everyone in fact, which I’ve learned ( late in life) to be never possible, so when I get a push back, a criticism, it wounds me. I’ve definitely got some complexities, and find it real hard to keep on a constant, a level keel, solid path. Sorry about the complexities. J I’m kinda pouring it out now… but without getting it properly ordered. Maybe you can make sense of it.

    XXX Nathalia

      December 8, 2017 1:06 PM GMT
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  • Been there, done that. I reached the point of no return so the decision to come out was easy. My life is number one, period. By coming out, your intentions are good, not bad. You need to live your life and want her to continue to be part of it, and vice versa. If you sit down with her, and calmly explain to her you love her and need to discuss something with her, the best you can hope for is total acceptance. The only thing you have to lose by hiding, is your sanity. The only thing you have to gain by coming out is your sanity.
      December 7, 2017 9:06 PM GMT
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  • I was'nt judging you, far from it,   I was pointing out you might have a more serious condition than being a cross dresser or some sort of sexual deviant, which is generally the conclusion wives arrive at.    

    After a very unhappy childhood,   I had to learn more, I had a need to know, one of the reasons I stay on as a member here, I have studied clinical and physcological reasons for gender dysphoria  had a couple of papers published, some people don't care, they just do it or don't do it,   Some of the posts in the link I gave above, were not empathetic, my honest opinion which I stated in the last post, people with the condition we have tend to suppress it, lead a ''normal'' life, I never believe there is a deliberate attempt to be devious.

     

    One couple I helped on here read some of my work, and eventually had their marriage converted to a same sex marriage when that option became available in 2010, if the spouse is willing to at least try and understand the complexities of the issues at hand, sometimes the marriage does not continue, another couple are now like sisters as opposed to being man and wife.   Transphobia does'nt just affect us, it affects wives and families as well, as in friends and family ''If that was my son I would throw him out ''how can you live with a weirdo like that''   ''if that was my husband I would leave him''  

    My father, caught me in bed wearing my sisters nightie, I was thrown against the wall kicked and punched, broken sternum, broken jaw and a broken wrist, I was a a pervert, a sissy boy, ''not in this family'',  I was 12 years old.  I later learned from my studies the condition I have was passed on to me by my mother, who also rejected me.

     

    Some people say they are pleased they are trans, No, they might be happy making the best of the cards they were dealt, but life would have been much simpler if they were dealt a matching pair. 

     

    https://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7805/heteronormativity

    Cristine Jennifer Shye** Beware the toes you tread on today, they might be attached to the arse your forced to kiss tomorow. Contenplating involvement with a man? Make sure you can cook realy well or face having sex on a regular basis. Men are like paving slabs, lay them properly, they will stay put and you can walk over them for ever.
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at December 8, 2017 2:40 PM GMT
      December 7, 2017 6:35 PM GMT
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