gay males?

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  • Hi Cristine & Nikki,

    Yes, the word "challenge" was mine, not Cristine's. My reading an attitude into someone else's words.

    I read the thread Nikki referred to while it was going on and have reread it since. It's not the good folks who posted there that I was trying to prod , but the guys who show up in "who's online" but never post and who check out your profile. I'm alawys flattered that someone took the time to look at my profile and there's anything wrong with staying in the background, but it would be nice to get some of their input.

    Best,
    Melody
    <p><span style="color: #800080;">Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola</span> - Ray Davies, The Kinks</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">(S)he's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction</span> - Kris Kristofferson</p>
      October 25, 2009 4:20 PM GMT
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  • He Hee, Melody,

    The ones that pm you in the chat room, without even say a Hi. to anybody and ask. what are you wearing? and are you a BIG girl? lol



    Cristine
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 25, 2009 4:26 PM GMT
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  • No Cristine, the NSL guys!!!! lol Or is it NAL, whatever, lol. I've always wondered if those guys would have a clue what to do if they ever actually met up with a TG gal of any kind.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
      October 25, 2009 7:05 PM GMT
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  • Hi Marsha,

    Okay, for those , like me, who are terminally uncool what do NSL and NAL mean?

    My only, obviously wrong, past references are Network Service Layer and New American Library...

    Best,
    Melody
    <p><span style="color: #800080;">Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola</span> - Ray Davies, The Kinks</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">(S)he's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction</span> - Kris Kristofferson</p>
      October 25, 2009 7:25 PM GMT
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  • Marsha....

    Age. Sex & location ASL

    Age?, your old enoiugh to be my Father. Sex? no thanks, I would rather stick pins in my eyes and sit on a burning candle. Location? sitting here at my desk having my time wasted answering stupid questions, what you wearing, erm Jumper, Jeans and trainers, Oh so your not a real tranny then? Er are you a big girl?. Hm no, I no longer have a willy, Oh! what a pity and you looked so hot.

    Have they never heard the word wooing lol.

    Hugs cristine
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 25, 2009 7:26 PM GMT
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  • Quite honestly Melody, anyone who just lurks in the background isn't worth knowing. How difficult is it to say 'hi' after all. If all they want to do is look at pictures there are other sites that can cater for them much better.

    If they can't deal with it in the virtual world, they'd run a mile in the real world, they just couldn't handle a Tgirl, Not worth bothering about.

    However, there are some nice guys that get in the chatroom who actually enjoy a conversation and are fun to talk to, so it's not all bad. You'll know them when you come across them.

    Nikki
    Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.
      October 25, 2009 7:39 PM GMT
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  • This is in response to Jamie's original question has a "girl had thought that they were gay male at one point in their life".

    I never have thought I was gay. I have never been attracted to the male form. My friends have usually been female and I much prefer their company to the company of the guys. I have seriously wondered what girls see in most guys. (well other than that!)

    That being said, when my gender has slid up the scale towards the feminine end I have thought about the experience of being filled. How it would feel to take someone inside me, but I'd always shudder because that meant a guy had to be on the other end.

    So no, I've never felt gay. Unless lesbian counts.

    Jerry
    Jeri Elaine “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” - Irina Dunn, 1970 Indecision is the key to flexibility. - unknown
      October 25, 2009 8:29 PM GMT
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  • Now that we have established in the main, It would seem that girls with GID 'should' fancy. be attacted to men, A hetrosexual relationship per se. those that chose a lesbian type relationships, (those remaining in previous formed relation ships, exempt, for reasons previously stated). The others, are you honestly sticking with genetic females because of subconcience conditioning, of what is regarded by society as the norm? still thinking from a preconcieved male aspect? That a sexual relationship with a male is abhorent and repulsive? Is it just a preference to stick with what you know? or is it you assimulate and emphasise more with genetic females. I can certainly understand both points of view, especially if at some time you had been physically abused by a man or just don't like brusque, sweaty muscle bound bodies. Or is it you hated your own male self so much, it just put you off men in general, perhaps it brings back uncomfortable memories.

    Cristine xxXxx
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 26, 2009 6:16 PM GMT
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  • Hi Cristine,

    I certainly don't have any real answers but I have thought about this for a very long time and I do have opinions.

    I does seem that a disproportionate percentage of TGirls list themselves as "straight" or Lesbian, even exempting those who are in existing relationships.

    My guess is for most it is a combination of a couple of the factors you mention.

    Wanting to be "normal" is probably a major driver even if being transgendered pretty much puts you outside that word, at least as far as most of the world is concerned.
    A preconceived male perspective - all your life all authority figures have been saying "take off that dress and go outside and play sports with the rest of the boys."
    A sexual relationship with a another male is abhorrent and repulsive. I'd probably use less radical terms, say, off-putting and discomforting - of course that might depend on the nature of that relationship.
    Sticking with what you know is always the safer, if unadventurous, choice.
    Empathy and assimilation with GGs sounds good, but for the most part they going to be interested in males, themselves.

    If I were magically transformed into young, healthy and attractive female (like THATs going to happen) I'd probably do what they do, look for boyfriend.
    In my real life, since I'm not contemplating any transitions (hormones, RLE, SRS) any time soon due to age, finances and health, I'll go on as I am now, androgynously asexual for the most part.

    Best,
    Melody






    <p><span style="color: #800080;">Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola</span> - Ray Davies, The Kinks</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">(S)he's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction</span> - Kris Kristofferson</p>
      October 26, 2009 8:04 PM GMT
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  • I have followed this post with some interest, as it touches on so much of what we have to deal in our daily and emotional lives. I had one experience with a man (a boy actually--we were both still in school) and recall it with some fondness, but never have sought other encounters with men. Yet when I imagine that same magical transformation that Melody mentions, I envision myself as a heterosexual woman. When I write or fantasize about being a woman, when I imagine sex, I imagine heterosexual sex with a man.

    You all are doing a way better job of exploring this than I could, just thought I'd add one more girl's perspective on it all.
      October 26, 2009 8:40 PM GMT
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  • Perhaps I'm not making myself very clear, , now I am not saying anything is normal abnormal right or wrong. but what does confuse me is the people that profess to be Gender Identity dysphoric, Male to Female, but always feel they have to quantify this by adding ''I'm straight, don't go with men, I'm not Gay I'm definately hetrosexual'???????


    you present and think like a woman, = woman.........woman attracted to men = Hetrosexual ergo.... normal,,... not societies perception in that you were born a male and should still be attracted to women

    you present and think like a woman, = woman....... woman attracted to women = Lesbian,.. society knowing you were born a male would and normally percieves this as realy weird, but accept it more than the case above.

    Cristine xXxx
    '
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 26, 2009 9:22 PM GMT
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  • 734
    Cristine,

    No worries, I'm with you 100%. I don't view myself as anything else but 'straight', my preference is men and always has been.

    I think, tbh, it is far simpler for young people to more accurately identify themselves as transexual than when I was in my teens and early adulthood. And, although it may not seem so, there is far more understanding and tolerance today. Great strides have certainly been made.

    To answer the opening post, yes, (partly for the reasons above) I spent considerable time assuming I must be gay for the simple reason I was drawn to men and not women. But at the same time there was nothing remotely gay about me and the entire scenario never really meshed with my reality of me. It took a long time to realise I was fancying men as a woman would and not necessarily as a gay man would. I feel there are subtle differences.
    Strangely, whilst this period caused considerable confusion to me, ultimately it helped in the easy acceptance I found in family and friends. Although they accepted my assumption at the time that I must be gay, when I more fully understood Gender identity and explained how I was and the route I wished to take, it was like a light going on for them. Ah, they each said, now I understand why you prefer men.

    xx
    www.raekelcou.com
      October 26, 2009 11:31 PM GMT
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  • Labels, labels, labels...

    what's wrong with actually liking a person for just that, that you like that person? Male, female, somewhere in between...what or why should anybody care and frankly, there is not enough love going around, so regardless of what society labels somebody, can't it be OK just to accept the fact that two people care enough for each other to fall in love without wondering if one is gay or lesbian or weird or a freak or whatever? Love is love...doesn't come in shapes, sizes, or neat little packages...I say, don't fight it, accept it, and enjoy it! It IS a gift!

    Traci
    <p>Traci</p>
      October 27, 2009 12:25 AM GMT
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  • Labels. why are so many people paranoid abput identity. This was started as ( have you ever felt gay) thread, People use labels to describe themselves all the time, We are not attaching a great deal of importance to the labels, they are being used in the definative sense. like one would use happy, sad, Just because you can drive a car that doesn't mean you can fly a plane, thats why drivers are called drivers, pilots are called pilots, Different but definately need to know your pilot is not just a driver when you board that plane.
    How di you describe yourself , Most of you refer to know a TS or have a TG, gay or lesbian freind .
    You don't say I have a mate, she calls herself miss wears frocks and has a willy?????????????????? or used to have a willy. same with I have a freind who was born a girl, she does'nt sleep with men, prefering to sleep with other women. Jam is jam, not peanut butter or marmalade. Jam comes in all sizes and flavours,

    I have just tried to be logical, reassuring people that all things considered the feelings of being gay are normal in the circumstances they describe.
    (but they not realy gay)


    Thats why I refer to myself as a trany its all encompassing. level playing field everyone equall people in their own rights

    Cristine, I'm back to the WTF do I know stage.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 27, 2009 11:04 AM GMT
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  • 2625
    When all is said & done I've come to beleave that gender & sexual orientation have nothing in common.
    I injoy having sex with a person I like regardless of the parts they have. When I first joined TW I was hit on a couple of times by TA's & was put off by it as I have no intrest in talking dirty here. I kept coming back wanting to learn about the woman in me.
    So I have & allways will hit the block to any PM's that talk sex.
    So the only normal thing about sex is liking it.
    <p>Karen Brad</p>
      October 27, 2009 12:23 PM GMT
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  • Karen, how wise, I always advocate its the who, not the what a person is.
    Oooooops in my last post I mentioned I view myself overall as a tranny, I do so with some affection, having a common bond with the comunity as a whole, all encompassing Hard to explain but, if some twit reffered to me outside the comunity as a Tranny I would put it down to their ignorance and be mildy miffed, bit like Gays that refer to their comunity as ''the Gay community''. I use the word Tranny loosely, knowing the hassles we have had in the past in the forums and nothing should be read into it.

    Cristine xxXxx
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 27, 2009 1:04 PM GMT
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  • Cristine. Have you transitioned into a handbag? Can we call you a bag lady from now? Rachel
    a girl at heart and a proper person too
      October 27, 2009 1:42 PM GMT
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  • Why do we really care anyway? This is the 21st century and certainly in the Western world we should be in a place where we can enjoy whatever relationships we choose to have, regardless of gender or sexuality and just ENJOY it! Maybe I'm oversimplifying it. I don't go for over analysis, if it feels good, why bother?

    The other can of worms this opens is for those who experimented at some time in their life. Does one experience that was never repeated make a person gay? Personally I don't think so. To use Crissie's analogy, getting your hands on the controls of an aircraft for a trial flight does not make you a pilot, and you may never get your hands on the controls again.

    I never thought I was gay, I still don't but I'm sure others would see me differently. To try and explain that one...........as a male I was only interested in women, purely heterosexual relationship there. However as a woman, men spark an interest in me, again, that's hetrerosexual, but as I'm caught between two worlds................

    A girl could go crazy trying to figure this out, since I already am crazy I don't bother.

    Nikki
    Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.
      October 27, 2009 2:16 PM GMT
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  • Rachel, lol, nice one, should transfer this now to the fun section

    Yes, could class me as a bag lady, if you bought that bag for real it would cost over two thousand pounds, Prada fairy bag comes with its own authetification documents, that is in fact a very good copy, the only difference being that the art work on that bag is fixed, does'nt run when it gets wet in the rain, the other only noticable difference is the zips inside. So yes I was ripped off, but still reackon I got a very good deal. for £180.. So at least I'm seen as an expensive bag lady, lol with good taste.



    Cristine.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 27, 2009 2:16 PM GMT
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  • Moderator
    2573
    Oh, Cristine, one of The Three Stooges used to go "woo, woo, woo", don't you remember? LOL.

    *****
    Do what feels right. Forgive yourself if you make a mistake. You are a gendernaut. You go where no man has gone before....well ok, some have, obviously.

    I have finally figured out my fist sexual experience, which was with a male friend. We were pre-teen. He suggested we try sex but one of us had to play the girl part. I was quick to volunteer. I spent a lot of time over the years trying to figure out what that experience meant about me. The last piece just fell into place. I was so eager to dress and play the girl part that I essentially ignored the fact that he was a male to enjoy being a girl. It had nothing to do with "gay", at least for me (I am fairly certain he was gay), it had everything to do with being transgendered at a time when the term did not even exist. I am grateful to him now for his suggestion, because it was my one, clear, TG memory of my early years when I really had no clue about sex. My response was hard-wired into me. It let me know these feelings go back to my childhood. I suspect that those of us who are not really attracted to males but have fantasies of sex with males are merely using it as a "carrier" for exploring our female-self. Besides, sex is not love, but mediocre sex is still good. We can not expect to understand transgendered sex when they have yet to figure heterosexual sex out.

    Just enjoy and accept yourself. It is like tasting food. If you never tried new foods you would miss out on a lot of taste experiences and enjoyment. I know lesbians who will have intercourse with men but their Love is with women. They like sex. Bisexual may not be bi-attracted. Years ago, I stopped the academic study of music when I realized that their logical and mathematical interpretations were interfering with my emotional response to music. This sounds like it may be the same thing.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      October 27, 2009 2:31 PM GMT
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  • Wendy xXx

    Is woo, woo woo, the definative interpretation of 'Eureka' Longmans perhaps, The stooges? what were the stooges Garry Glitters backing band?

    Anyway think people have finally got the point I was trying to make, and not recieved any hate mail, or death threats,yet, lol

    nice answers tho.

    Cristine xXx
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      November 15, 2009 12:54 PM GMT
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  • Hi Cristine,

    While this thread was dormant for a few weeks I've been thinking a lot about your statements and my answers to you. I think I hinted at what I meant, but really didn't spell it out the way I was trying to.

    You said, "you present and think like a woman, = woman.........woman attracted to men = Hetrosexual ergo.... normal,,... not societies perception in that you were born a male and should still be attracted to women."

    Sounds good, but it doesn't reflect my feelings or attitude. I've felt feminine since before (I'm guessing) most of the TW members were born. I dress to express that femininity. I truly feel I was born in the wrong gender.

    But, I live my life in a male body (as much as I wish I was female) and if I were to have sex with another male it would be homosexual, not heterosexual. The mind doesn't, at least for me, override the physical reality. If some guy, even if I were to find him attractive, was humping me from behind, I wouldn't feel the least bit feminine. (This is my personal view, I have nothing against gays or anyone else.) Maybe it's just my personal GID.

    I do find females attractive and have had relationships with them, but I've always wanted to be them, not screw them.

    For me, this is largely hypothetical, at least for the last couple of decades, since I live my life as androgynously asexual for the most part.

    Best,
    Melody

    <p><span style="color: #800080;">Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola</span> - Ray Davies, The Kinks</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">(S)he's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction</span> - Kris Kristofferson</p>
      November 16, 2009 12:26 AM GMT
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  • Hiya Melody.

    I was trying to put forward a logical answer ro the question ''does this make me gay'' I did at the start say somwhere that the human mind is very diverse, How you or anyone feels within yourself is a personal thing. My perception of what should be seen as normal, (I do so hate that word normal) is not written in stone for eveyone, On reflection, I neglected to say that it does'nt even have to appertain to a sexual act. It of course can just be the attraction the feelings. You can still be in love with somone and be asexual, Lots of people are just not interested in the act of sexual gratification. The act of sex initself is not
    dependant on love, it goes the otherway as well. Nice if you have both, but its not paramount in all cases to living a happy contented life. If you were to look at it from the other point, Anal sex is predominately described as a homosexual act.. But if you have a gender identity disorder and play the role of the female, convinced you are one and wanting to be seen and accepted as one, but at that time only able to have penatrive sex in that way, does that make you homosexul? , gay, personally I don't thinks so, if you do, its because your socially conditioned to think so, Perhaps your subconcous feelings about this outweigh your feelings about being a woman. (I said PERHAPS, not that it does in all cases)

    I'm not totaly deluded into thinking that all the sex I had with men, that all of them realy thought I was a woman, most probably using me to allay and suppress their own feelings of guilt and denial in being gay. But it boosted my female ego and confidence at the time.

    I was just trying to anylise my own thoughts on the subject, never understanding why some would insist they were Gender dysphoric yet always having to back this up by saying they were not gay, but straight and hetrosexual preffering natal born females. Which to me was a conflict of definition.

    My own relationship, seems weird to most people, When we became an item, we were both pre-op, since then I have had surgery. At this moment in time my partner is quite content to remain as she is, If eventually she decides to have surgery
    then we will still be together, I cannot even decipher what I am lol, A lesbian.? Or because of the way we have sex at the moment, Hetro Only to obviously become a lesbian if she does have surgery.

    But in the main, as all the married TS's who remain in a loving relationship will probably tell you, The love bit is the paramount factor, so it is not what your partner is or what you are.

    Happiness and love can just be a cuddle, The what the person is does'nt realy matter its the cuddle that makes you feel good.

    But I digress, Gender dysphoria does not for gay make, if you happen to fancy men.

    Cristine xxXxx

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      November 16, 2009 8:08 AM GMT
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  • Hi,
    This is quite an interesting thread that keeps popping up.

    In response to Melody's and Crissie's recent posts, I thought I would cherp in with my "Penny's" worth lol.

    I struggled with the confusion created by having a natal male body and and internal feminine gender. I came to realise that this is what Gender Indentity Dsyphoria describes. I came to realise that the labels we give ourselves and eachother doesnt really matter, we should all strive to be just happy with who we are. After all, theres nothing wrong with being gay or a trans person or a transvestite. We have the freedom to present ourselves however we like and we also have the freedom to change that too. For me, once I realised that it didnt matter what labels i should have, I just got on with enjoying my freedom in being me.

    I just want to be treated with respect. I protested when someone refered to me as a gay male and that was seen as prejudice towards gays. All I can say to that is the same person made 2 mistakes, refering to me as male and thinking I am prejudice towards gays. I also realised that this person might make all sorts of assuptions and judgements about any and everyone.

    I believe that all these difficulties are culturally based. After all, for a Sudanese Azande to become a warrior in their own right they had to live as a woman with a warrior and perform all the female duties like cooking, cleaning including all the activities in the bedroom. I dont think their culture ever had problems with gays or trans people. It was perceived as "normal".

    Hope I didnt digress too much lol.
    Love
    Penny
    Just an ordinary girl finding her way in this strange life. - What will it take to get everyone to realise that everyone else is also a human being that deserves just as much respect? - How does someone tell their doctor they have hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia? - When I was a student I specialised in Alcopology. It always starts with Alco and always ends with pology. - Waiter! There's a hare in my rabbit pie!
      November 16, 2009 3:11 PM GMT
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  • 1195
    Penny - maybe you digressed - so?
    I liked what you had to say - or rather "Well said, dear."
    I know we get slapped for digressing but it does reflect our thought process - we see a progression and we add to the train of thought. That's human nature - at least for those who use their brains.

    As the old saying goes "Stay loose!"
    hugs
    Gracie
    <p>If it isn't fun - don't do it.</p>
      November 16, 2009 3:41 PM GMT
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