That silent prejudice . . .

    • 448 posts
    November 25, 2006 9:09 PM GMT
    Just the other day I encountered at work the ignorance that still exists in mainstream society, and the bigotry it engenders, concerning transgender issues. The views expressed were cliched in the extrewme, but they were still out there, and they were still expressed. There's more details on my blog if anyone cares to read it. But it is a good example of why, as a community we cannot afford to be complacent.
    • 448 posts
    November 26, 2006 5:49 PM GMT
    I think what really hurts is my own passivity. The nature of the intercourse and comments passed were so absurd as to be bordering on the bizaare. So ridiculous are these people they are not worthy of my attention was my response at the time. Arrogance perhaps on my part. But that kind of knee-jerk prejudice should be confronted. I let myself down and by doing so the tg community also. I certainly don't consider myself a representative of the community - I don't cut an heroic figure - but I am appreciative of it, and I guess a part of it. A lesson learned for next time. It's just that the next time someone who is aware of your situation is kind, and generous, and helpful - you can't help but think?
    • 448 posts
    November 27, 2006 9:22 PM GMT
    Hi Maryanne, I'm exhausted after that, sounds like the weekend from Hell, rescued by a little retail therapy - it never fails. Nice to see he took your honesty so well. I think he needs to relax more. I know a way . . . maybe not. Didn't realise I might be that scary, will fix everyone with an icy stare from now on. It is amazing, though not perhaps surprising, that even now people can be so overtly bigoted and blind to other people, regardless of race, religion and sexuality etc as human beings. I wonder did he ever make such homophobic remarks to someone he knew to be gay, or would that be bad for business. Paris is a nice city too. I once went to Paris with Paris. Keep things simple that's what I say. Take care, Love Porscha xxx
    • 448 posts
    November 29, 2006 10:49 PM GMT
    You are so right, Rachael. You should always be yourself. I could never be anyone else, and would never want to be. Don't be bullied, don't be afraid; be brave, strong, good, and true. A loving heart always wins through in the end. But we should always be aware that there are people out there who would hurt us if they could, and prevent us from expressing ourselves as the human beings we are. We ignore them at our peril because views, however low level, exist that can be exploited. And we all know how public opinion can be manipulated. Love Porscha x
    • 448 posts
    November 30, 2006 10:45 PM GMT
    I don't know Wendy, it is very difficult. I was horribly bullied as a child and always promised myself I would not let it happen too me as an adult; and even now I cannot bare seeing people ridiculed and abiused. I'm not tough but I hate being a coward, moral or otherwise. But you are right in what you say. I do speak my mind often to my detriment, but strangely only to people I respect or have a genuine affection for. Just think if I had come out to these people. I don't doubt they would have been polite and understanding whenever they were in my company. I did come out in a previous office and rather than being the liberating experience I imagined it would be it became a millstone around my neck for I ceased to be an individual and instead became a something. As someone casually remarked today, ' he's probably the only gay in the office.' The only gay in the office? As previously expressed, is it out of fear, frustration or merely an expression of the herd mentality, that supposedly rational people can be so blindly and aggressively judgemental. I will try not to denigrate myself in the future. I know there are others out there who would gladly do that for me.
    • 448 posts
    December 1, 2006 12:24 AM GMT
    You have to stand up for yourself, it's true. I'm not sure I could kick ass though, my past record in this area is not very impressive. But I don't run away. I do speak my mind though not always with tact and decorum. But I think that's a defence mechanism. If a friend doesn't take offence at what you say then they are a friend worth having and one who might actually feel genuine affection for you. You know Rachael, the best defence we can ever have is to always be ourselves, to always stick together, and to always take care of one another. Love, Porscha.
    • 1083 posts
    December 2, 2006 12:33 AM GMT
    ***WARNING!!! MINA’S RANTING AGAIN!!!***

    Luvs--

    I have held off on this topic, and I may come to regret what I write—for some reason, I seem to be on the rag today. Then again, I may not.

    In one respect, Frances is right. All y’all get a backbone! Geeeez! We all look silly without one…like rubber chickens. Kind of floppy, and not able to stand very well. It’s tough…wait, that’s a figurative backbone?

    Yeah...better order up one of those, too.

    Okay, kids. Pay attention…class is now in session. Today’s lesson: Hatred and Bigotry.

    Hate is out there. It exists, and while we need to work to correct that, the first thing we need to agree on is us. Who are we, really?

    See, part of the issue is other people’s fear of the unknown, fear of that which is different. If y'all haven't noticed...we are different! That fear can only be changed and erased by educating people, if need be one at a time. Another part of the issue is all the petty bickering, squabbling and internal politicking that we in the TG community have amongst ourselves…never mind with the L/Bi/G crowd! If we can’t agree and come together in like mind amongst ourselves, why do we dare to think others will treat us any differently?

    With that thought in mind, and in that light…

    Wendy—Good enough. Keep it up, dear. We are not all “soldiers”, and thus have to do what we can when and where we can. We cannot do it all at once. So why knock yourself out trying?

    Rachael—join the club. I still have physical scars from where I got the crap beat out of me by classmates. I have chosen to live in the now, as I am, rather than going back and using that period of my life as an excuse. I have also forgiven many of them…it’s a good (and needful) place to start.

    High marks for you, though, for speaking your mind. Keep it up, girlfriend!


    Porscha—re-read what I said to Rachael. Now…I dislike being a coward as well. But there are times when a prudent retreat (whatever that may look like at that time) may be the more intelligent course of action. If that means I “wimp out”, but live to write another article, I’ll take my chances. We all have to remember that we are all too human and frail. I’d rather be a live coward than a dead martyr—I can do more good in the long term by living my life smartly than possibly die from making a bad choice. Like trying to convince a person showing real hatred (as opposed to simply an ignorant person) toward me the error of their ways.

    However…**tone softens here** That you came out in an office and discovered it wasn’t liberating is very telling about comfort levels and prejudice…coming out isn’t always all we hope it will be, nor does it always work out like we hope it will. I hope others of us learn from that experience…myself included. Something about a time and place…bless you for making the attempt, hon!


    Maryanne—You have the right idea, sugah. Blessings to you! I wish I could be like you at times, except for that whole Goth thing. (It’s just not me, dear.)

    To us all—idiots are everywhere. (Especially when I’m driving—they’re all in front of or behind me, depending on their speed and how late I am.) Hatred and bigotry, sadly, is also everywhere…we need to stand up for ourselves and our civil rights, but at the same time, let’s not be stupid about it! There are times and places when it is necessary…and times when the prudent thing is to keep your lipsticked lips together. That’s not weakness from where I sit…it’s intelligent!

    It comes back to what I’ve said for years…THINK!!! USE the grey matter between the ol’ frontal lobes.


    We all need to lighten up as well. We all have our dark, pensive, brooding side. Geez…what we all need is a party or something, to shake it all off.

    This is the second rant I’ve had today…must be hormonal. I’ll get off my soapbox now, and go put on my flameproof bra and panties. I’ve a hunch I’m gonna need them.

    Luv ‘n hugs anyway,

    Mina Sakura
    • 1083 posts
    December 2, 2006 7:02 AM GMT
    Wendy, hon--

    A million T-Girl March? In heels? Get real!
    Today a person who is Gay or Lesbian can risk what they could not twenty years ago... Most people are ok with us, or at least can deal with it. It's the ones who can't that we have to deal with.

    So true. I cannot argue with that, nor do I wish to.

    However...I'm not so sure people can deal with us. They can't seem to deal with a TS character on a soap opera...we have to get folks past that.

    There are those of us not ready to make a commitment shouldn't. I think that has been established here and there; I know it is part of what drives Sakuramina.com. It has to--not everyone is ready to just "step off the ledge." And they shouldn't. That's why I write some of the stuff I do...coming out isn't for everyone. Heck, honey, this lifestyle is not for everyone! That's why I write the way I do on my site. I don't want to discourage anyone...but I also want them to know it's not all diaphonous ball gowns, pearls and makeup, either.

    It would be nice if it were safe to come out and live our lives as the women we are. We both know it isn't. That has nothing to do with fear--and everything to do with ignorant, bigoted people. Of which there are many.

    **sighs**

    You and I--and many, many others--have a lot of work to do, don't we?

    Luv 'n hugs,

    Mina
  • December 2, 2006 2:41 PM GMT
    This is an extremely interesting topic and very good points have been made but how many of us are also guilty of prejudice against others like us only to hide our true self from those who do not know the truth of who you really are. I am very guilty of it. I cannot count the times that I have done this so not to be suspected of being tg or gay ( truth is, I am bisexual although I claim lesbian ). Way back to new years eve 1985 my sister and I made a run to the store for some things for a party her and her husband were having. We were in the checkout line when she nudged me and pointed out a ts. She said "Look at that f--king freak". We made some jokes back and forth about her. (She actually looked really great and was dressed very nice, nothing flamboyant but, it was somewhat obvious that she was a ts and in transition). When we returned to my sisters house we made more jokes and said some awful things about the poor girl being a queer and I felt so extremely awful for doing this but somehow felt that I had to so as not to be a suspect. Two nights before this I was at Magnolias, a tranny bar in St.Louis, dressed and on the arm of another tg. I felt so bad for what I said and knew that I was being the worst hypocrit of them all. These days when someone starts on about another for who they are I ask why is it such a concern of theirs. Most people who know me, knows that I have AIDS. I tell people who wish to belittle others that I have met a large number of gay men and women becuase of AIDS and that they are no differant than anyone else. In fact you would never know they were gay if they walked past you or standing in a line with you. I ask why would a persons sexuality be of any concern. A few have asked me if I was gay. I tell them, no, I am a lesbian. I have always claimed this even before HIV and say it as if it is a joke. Everyone takes it that way. They have no idea how close to the truth it really is. But, I still feel hypocritical for not being able to be fully truthful. I have such a long ways to go to coming out and believe that I am not the only one who hides within the prejudice of our own kind.
    • 448 posts
    December 2, 2006 8:56 PM GMT
    Thankyou, Rachel. Thats what it's all about.
  • December 3, 2006 4:22 AM GMT
    You're so welcomed, Porscha. For myself this has always been the hell of living a double life. Hiding within prejudice. Feeling that I had to say what the others were saying. You know, being one of the boys. I am deeply ashamed of what I became because of my fear of being found out. I have known others who have done the same. Part of my reason seems to be geographical. When I was seeing the therapist before she retired we talked about this and why it was easier for me to be mostly out when I lived far away from family and people that I grew up around. It all centers around not wanting to disappoint the people who are closes to me such as parents, brothers and my sister. Also, it centers on upbringing. Males are to be men and females, women. Men are to be with women, not other men. Growing up I never felt this way but, I was groomed to "think" this. I knew from early on that I was different. I have always dressed (up to the point when my mother wouldn't tolerate it) and saw myself as a girl. When other boys were noticing girls, I was noticing boys. My first kiss was with my friend who also dressed at around age 10 when I lived in California. We had our first sexual experiance with each other and at that point the double life started. Being a tg/gay teen in the 70's when we moved to St. Louis was just asking for an ass kicking. The only way around that was to become one of the jerks and live the double life. I made fun of other kids who may or may not had been gay all the while myself and another boy were having a relationship up untill we graduated high school. During the same time I also had a steady girlfriend. I really felt like the worst person in the world. But, no one suspected me and I felt safe. But, I also felt ashamed of myself. I joined the Navy thinking I could change. No more dressing and no more men. Right out of bootcamp I got stationed up in San Fransisco for NBC warfare school for 3 months and soon found my self seeking out the ts and gay community. It wasn't hard to find the right place. All the while I still continued to hide behind the prejudice when on base. Talking down on people like myself. The same when I went back to San Diego and got stationed on a ship. I moved off when I met Eric (funny, my first kiss was with my friend who was also named Eric whom I called Erica when we dressed). I rented an apartment but lived with him as his girlfriend Rachel, the real me. I felt safe as we lived in a mostly gay area, Hillcrest. I did fear being caught and thrown out of the navy for being gay. Oddly, that may had been just what I needed to end the hypocracy that I was living. Not a day went by on ship that someone didn't say something about gays or trannys and I was one of them saying awful things not only about others but quite literally about myself. This continued when I left San Diego and moved to back to St. Louis up untill I tested positive for HIV in 95. I no longer say awfull things about others and do not feel the need to hide behind the prejudice. I do feel the need to come out fully but still have alot of fear in doing so. At the age of 46 I should have no problem with it but it comes back around to the geographical thing of being near family and friends who have no idea. Maybe my fears are just silly and I will be accepted, maybe not. At least I have become a better person by refusing to be apart of the prejudice and being able to defend others like myself when someone starts to belittle them. I only wish that I could find the strength to step completely out of the closet. I have, however, did shave my legs, chest and underarms all summer and no one said a word. I hope to hear how others have dealt with prejudice.
    LuvHugKis...Rachel
    • 1083 posts
    December 3, 2006 4:57 AM GMT
    Wendy--

    Seeing yourself as you are is the first step in healing and growth. Seeing myself as Mina--really seeing myself as Mina--was the most important step I've ever, ever taken.

    It was also the hardest, and came quite some time into my adult life, much less my life after discovering my problems were from my (unknown/undignosed) transsexuality.

    Let the healing being, dear. If you ever want to talk...I'm here for you.

    Luv 'n hugs,
    Mina
    • 2068 posts
    November 25, 2006 9:38 PM GMT
    Porscha...i've read what you wrote in your blog, I gotta say these peeps are complete & Utter Jerks who should realise that we're living in the 21st century & NOT the dark ages. To me it seems that they are scared of something that they have no knowledge of or no control over. Thats why we, as a TG community can't afford to sit back, resting on out laurels.We have to get out there & educate people & tel them we ain't weirdo's,freaks or whatever.....cos even WE have feelings & these comments can & DO hurt!

    LOL xxxxxxxx
    Anna-Marie
    • 1652 posts
    November 28, 2006 1:21 AM GMT
    Brilliant Maryanne, I’m proud of you.
    “Here’s my card, now shut the f*** up…”
    xx
    • 2573 posts
    November 30, 2006 1:37 AM GMT
    Porscha,
    This is the kind of decision they make games theory for. If they were going to burn her at the stake, then risking your job (or at least your relationship with your coworkers) would have been justifiable. To stop ignorant comments....that's asking a lot when you know you would not have changed these people a bit. The mob would have just turned on you and the t girl was going to leave anyway...you were going to stay. If you must speak out, save it for where it will do some real good. You don't need to out yourself to defend a sister. I prefer a simple "When are you all going to get your torches and pitchforks and march on the castle?" or "This is the 21st century you know, not the 16th century." type of response. It's ok to be afraid. You didn't speak out against the girl, and some would have to cover their secret. You should take pride in that, not denigrate yourself for being human.
    • 2573 posts
    December 1, 2006 2:28 AM GMT
    Well, earlier in the year I was at a party with a lot of old friends, and one told me that someone we used to hang out with was a MtF TS and "out". There was some snickering and I got angry....I realized later because of all my TG friends, not my self, and spoke out loudly and firmly that the person was BORN that way and was just as female in her brain as the ggs at the party. The snickering stopped, there were murmurs of assent and one father mildly chastised his daughter for laughing. It was successful but nobody asked for elaboration. I didn't even think about it, so I can't take credit for my outburst. I guess I live most of my "life" with all of you and you matter to me. I was pretty stunned at what I had done. I knew that there was at least one GLBT person at the party, however, and that may have been part of what triggered me. I tend to Robin Hood when the "poor" are oppressed, lol. I am glad now that I did it.
    • 2573 posts
    December 2, 2006 6:08 AM GMT
    FIRST:

    I want to say that this discussion reflects the kind of discussion that is appropriate for TW. There is disagreement but none of the hostile, insulting, personal attacks that we have seen in the past have occured. It's the kind of posts that are good for all of us and the site as a part of the TG/TS community. Good job.

    FRANCIS
    I KNOW I drive you mad and you deal with it much better than you used to. Good for you. I'm not sure where the "...you creep back into your shell." comes from because I'm not aware of having taken a step backwards since I first came out in my off-line life on January 1st of this year. However, I should make it clear that my military training was in the Special Forces-style where patience, use of force multipliers and picking your time and place to have the most effect on the opposition are key factors in any long-term campaign. I've done this in combat and I do it in the rest of my life. I promise you, if I should save the Queen's life and be offered a knighthood I will come out completely at that time for it would be a significant "victory". Until then I choose my fights carefully. I spent the last ten years in pain and near-poverty because I did the "right" thing and protected TWO patients from injury at work. I paid a high price for that. Right now, being "out" to all those around me would delay my final, long-awaited rise back up out of that situation. I would risk losing my lodgings before I can afford to move in somewhere else. I won't live in the street in poverty to make a courageous stand (or foolish, see GEORGE ARMSTRONG CUSTER under "idiots of military history"). It's my war and I will choose when to attack. Risking being where I can't ever get back to full-time work would be a foolish course of action. The time is soon but I'll attack from the top of the hill, not the bottom, thank you very much. I can do a lot more good this way. This is the fastest path to my own practice as a gender therapist where I can help the most people. I'd like to be able to pay for a full membership at TW again. That could happen this month. I'd like a running car again. That could happen this month or next. I'd like to live where I can live my life the way I want to. That could happen in a few months. It won't happen if I make foolish choices. I'm sure if you had all the facts, you would see the wisdom of making this decision with my head and not my heart. Creep back into my shell? It isn't happening. I'm relaxed about who I am, I'm just not foolish. If confronted I would admit it. Imagined prejudice? That was a party of my friends that I was at when they laughed about an old friend/acquaintance who was TS. I imagined nothing. Their prejudice was real and I was the ONLY person who spoke out to protest that behavior. In the distant past, my own ignorance has led me to be not so different from the people at that party...probably not at all different. I was taught by people like them to be that way. Ignorance is a dangerous pet to have around. The danger is that the ignorant believe they are right. No offense taken, Francis, by the way, your heart is in the right place, hon. My style is just more creep and strike and less Schwerpunkt. When I do come out, my acquaintances will consider me the most dangerous "tranny" they know, lol. I don't anticipate being attacked physically. I also don't plan to walk down the street with a sign that says "Ich bin ein Transsexual". Unless I'm in a TG parade.


    Minako,

    As usual, you had a lot of thoughtful things to say. (like your recent article, on being discovered online, on your website) We all know that every TG person in America (or the UK) showing up en femme in front of the White House (or Buckingham Palace) next Sunday would change the world. We also know it's NOT going to happen that way. The Million T-Girl march is a long way off. It was less than three years ago I lived in terror of my nature being discovered. I can't help but empathize with those not ready to make that kind of commitment without thought of the cost to their lives. I grew up in a world where Southerners hung "niggers" just for being Black in the wrong place at the wrong time....where signs all over the South read "White only". Prejudice and violence are real. So is acceptance and understanding. But acceptance doesn't put you in the hospital. or cost you your job, home, friends or family. It's not the 1000 people at the front door who want to sell you a magazine, get you to vote for Smith or want you to Witness Jehovah that my ggf answers the door with a magnum in the back of her belt for....it's the three who tried to break in and rob/rape/kill her that she has it for. And, indeed, they did rethink their position quite dramatically and quickly. I think good judgement is important in the decisions we make that can have vast effects on our lives. But there is hope. Today a person who is Gay or Lesbian can risk what they could not twenty years ago... Most people are ok with us, or at least can deal with it. It's the ones who can't that we have to deal with. I want to live the way I want to. I don't want to have to shoot anyone else to do so. We have enough sisters who are living, and dead, proof that I might have to.

    Just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you.
    • 2573 posts
    December 2, 2006 9:06 AM GMT
    Minako,

    The hard part was convincing myself to see who I was. The rest is, relatively easy. I plan to go back to see my old therapist. I know he will want to deal with my gender identity. It will be a little difficult to convince him that that WAS my problem and why we had such problems getting my life together. Now it's not my problem and I have other things, unrelated to gender, that I need to address.

    Dealing with the rest of the world will be unpleasant in some cases and frustrating in others but I don't know if it will be difficult. As Lawrence said "Aqaba is over there. It's only a matter of going."
    • 2017 posts
    May 15, 2007 2:45 PM BST
    I think you should go for it MA. If only to see his face and how he is going to deal with it. Who knows, you might even educate him a little. Take your own car though, just in case you need to leave, you don't need another weekend like the last one.

    Nikki
    • 2573 posts
    May 15, 2007 10:16 PM BST
    So, m/a, you ARE into self abuse? Sure help out such a grateful guy, why not?