HI Rachel,

Actually, my S.O. (a ggirl) is a big football fan. She actually wanted us to get a satellite dish so we could watch games out of our region. So ggirls really are diverse in their interests as well!! BTW: we did get the dish.

Hugz,
MichelleLynn

So here I sit, flicking through TrannyWeb, catching up on gossip, inquiring, inquisitive and nosey. I'm reading about the girls, I'm thinking like a girl, I'm doing girlish things. But I'm listening to the football on the radio at the same time!

Your gender runs deep, but devotions nurtured during your (male) youth run deeper still, and feel a bit at odds sometimes.

So, I wonder, do other girls have stubborn male fascinations that are sustained even when their female character has become fully established?

Not that a woman can't listen to the football on the radio of course...

You are what you are - nothing more, nothing less

I know loads of girls into cars and football, and I know just as many guys who like to stay at home with mummy. What you do is not related to your gender.

So if it feels good, do it; sod the guilt.

K

Sorry girls. Naff thread.
Thought it was amusing this afternoon..
On reflection, perhaps not.
Rachel

There's no such thing as stubborn male fascinations, only stubborn social cliches. I know nothing about cars and couldn't change a tyre in heels or otherwise. Then again, I can't knit or sew either. It is troubling that the freedom we seek isn't merely physical, we know that. Something we experience everyday of our lives and the most potent weapon in the armoury of those who would oppose and threaten us.

That is a loaded question Rachel. I have little interest in most sports now, I don't mind having a game on in the background so i can check on it now and then but to sit there and watch the whole thing, noway. I've always said I know a little about a lot of things, if it can be done by normal people, i can usually learn how to do it. The real key to that is I'm not afraid of trying. It amazes me all the people who say "I can't do that" to the easiest things. Too lazy to try or something.

Not sure if this is what you are asking, but after being on hormones for 3 yrs now I would say I have not forgotten how to do anything that I did in the past. I have always helped with cooking and cleaning and love working in the garden.

Love,
Marsha

Hi Eileen

Hmmn?! I admit the need to look up anima / animus prior to responding..

Why did I think it was naff?

Well, occasionally when I flick through the forums and read the threads, I occasionally think 'Why ask that, what does she mean, etc etc?' But I do keep reading and generally find the content valuable, informative and entertaining. I'm also conscious that I can't be critical of the content, unless I also contribute.

So, when visiting TWeb during the weekend - communicating and engaging as Rachel, I suddenly reflected upon the football commentary on in the background. I thought about why I had switched it on, and why I was again visiting TWeb? The combination made me smile.

(I guess you support a particular football team because of the way you are nurtured? Maybe I'm visiting TWeb because of nature, but perhaps due to nurture also? I don't know..)

But anyway, I chanced on the moment, thought it was amusing, so posted the thread quickly using fairly loose terminology. Here was my downfall! The eagle-eyed, well-read readers quickly pounced and exposed my naivety.

I'm not a psychologist, but I am trying to learn more about where I've come from and where I'm heading. You are probably correct defining the love of football as a male trait, not as a sub-conscious male fascination. I also thought that 'The sub-conscious, stubborn male' was a provocational title - a bit tabloid, I accept - and that it might attract attention.

So I read a few replies, decided I'd scored a home goal and offered an apology. Which of course generated further correspondence, and more thought, comments, and the-such-like.

Could I finish by suggesting that inquisitive, thoughtful, engaging gossip is a female trait - just to even it up?

Rachel

Errrrrr......do I detect the fragrant smell of decaying cliches being warmed up here?Emancipation and
equality(yes,yes,I know about the wages problem) are hopefully tipping the concepts of separate male and female interests onto the refuse tip of history.The more successful national football(soccer) team in Germany at the moment is.......right,the women.A straw-poll by Repartee magazine(UK) revealed a disproportionately high percentage of Bikers among Trannies(you're in good company,Nikki).Every day we see women doing jobs that,only a few years ago,were strictly men only-bus drivers,train drivers,truckers,soldiers,pilots etc etc.The next time you visit a steam railway ,don't be surprised if the loco crew are women and the boys are running the buffet car.And,while we're on this track,hands up those of you with train sets in the attic or the cellar......come on,now,I can see a few red faces and hesitant hands at the back!Yes,I've got model railway items,in boxes,in my basement,I'm still interested in railways and this even turned out to be useful at work.I read recently of a model railway exhibition where the best layout was built and operated by..........a group of 16-year old schoolgirls!
The point is,all these things are part of us,be it sport,stamp collecting,needle work or driving the Paris-Dakar Rally.They make us who we are,and denying or feeling ashamed of them because of some outdated social convention will ultimately impoverish us as people psychically.If we're standing up for our gender orientation why can't we stand up for our 'genetically incorrect' interests at the same time?(OK,I realise that those of us from extreme Conservative/religious environments have got enough problems on our plates as it is).
Rachel-if you want to do the ironing with a football commentary as background accompaniment,fine,there's nothing 'wrong' with that at all.
Your SO is better at DIY than you are?Great-more power to her elbow!She's being herself,you're being yourself,and, in the end that's all that matters!

God,what a rant!I'll go and cut my lefthand fingernails now and play some guitar.
so long,
Lynn Harvey

What it finally comes down to is that I prefer to be with people who accept and are happy with their interests,irrespective of their own gender and whether their interests are 'gender correct' or not.They are more 'rounded' (I believe the current jargon term is 'authentic' ) as people,or so it seems to me,compared to someone who takes up,say,embroidery,although they have neither the talent nor an interest in it,just because it's something women are supposed to do.And then ,of course,there are those whose interests are determined by the 'in' and 'out' lists in lifestyle magazines.................

Wasn't Judith Polgar a chess grand master(or should it be mistress)?

".......Sisters are doing it for themselves............"

Happy Easter everyone,
Lynn Harvey

You're going to have to define "male fascinations" much better than that. My soon-to-be-ex-wife knows more about cars than I do. My late sister screamed at American football games louder than men. Josie Brissette can hammer a nail better than I can, and doesn't have to go to the emergency room because she severed an artery (I never actually did that - it's just a statement).

What is a male fascination? I could change a flat tire in high heels as well as in gym shoes. Well, maybe. I would rather someone change the tire for me.

Mere

Well, I like my bike and would never be without one, the same goes goes for my guitar, both of which could be seen as verging on maleness but that's rubbish. Girls like bikes too and are also able to play guitars just as well as any man, (the only downside being that we have to keep our nails short)!!

On the other hand, I hate football, rugby etc etc and my mechanics skills run as deep as being able to call for the breakdown service.

Nikki

Don't be sorry I know what you ment. Thier just knit-picking.
There are things about me I call manly that don't go away no matter what. As well as femm things I can't hide no matter what I do, they slip out.

Hey!

Not a 'naff' thread at all. Its good to chat about anything

Marsha - ''It amazes me all the people who say "I can't do that" to the easiest things. Too lazy to try or something.''

Huh! [ok, I confess to a small bit of laziness....].

One thing I've never been able to do is DIY. I see myself as possessing zero practical skills. Its not that I don't want to, its simply that I can't. I acknowledge my limitations.

Many years ago I decided to give myself a test. I was fed up with not being able to do things that needed doing. I wanted a shelf in the bathroom, so I decided to put a shelf up following the instructions to the letter and using brand new tools bought specifically for the job. I knew success must be mine!

The shelf came with a paper template. I actually used it. I used a spirit level. The right screws and those little plastic thingys of the right size in correctly drilled holes. I had a witness - knowledgeable in these matters - observe as I worked away.

He was more surprised then I was when the damned shelf ended up one inch higher at one end then the other. I abandoned all hope of doing these things!

On the other hand, my sister says she first realised I was a girl when I'd happily pull the car over to ask for directions...

Much love

Rae xx

Don't be silly Rachel, it is a good thread subject and I think you have received some good responses too.

It seems as though many of have always had certain female and male sub-concious traits or as Porscha quite rightly says, female/male social cliches.

I have always been very girly in some things, quite the opposite in others. However, I have noticed that as I got older my female side took over more and more. I still do a lot of sports that I did when I was in denial but they are individual genderless sports anyway. My daughter on the other hand plays football and has picked up a number of trophies including player of the year for her first two years. I don't think that makes her any less of a girl, she just has an interest, (or obsession it sees sometimes, lol), in football.

Nikki

That was a clever little twist Rachel, but gossip? Us girls? Surely not!

Nikki

Rachel, don't put yourself down for this thread. I have been doing some thinking about what was instilled in me while growing up, as in "boys do this, girls do that." I never did the "boys" things very well, if at all (hence one of the reasons for my "psycho ninja" title).

Gossipy girls? US? Why did you hear what I did about Nikki Holm? Girls.......let me tell you......

And that Maryanne.......oh, dear.........

How about Anna-Marie and Queen Charlotte? I could tell you some stories!!!!!!

Did you hear that story that Kendra and Meredith got each other pregnant? Kendra apparently had twins, and Mere had a daughter.

Wait, that one's about me......FORGET IT!!!!

I tend to agree with Lynn. My interests are things I'm interested in as a person (male or female) and are not stereotypes of boys' or girls' things. They're just part of me. For example: chess (played overwhelmingly by men but some women are very good; surely a gender-neutral game); poetry (no sexual divide there); rugby union (OK, OK...); flowers (definitely female first); shoes (comment unnecessary); walking in the mountains (also non-sexist); engaging with people at a deep, emotional level (easier for women); etc etc.

One of best female friends is an avid Spurs fan who almost never misses a match. Does that make her less of a woman?