This will probably make some people angry which is not my intention, and remember this is merely one person's opinion.
I hate, no I really HATE, the phrase admirer. For one thing it's non-descriptive. Because what we really are, are potential friends, dates, lovers and spouses. We're just men secure enough enjoy the company of transgendered women. Men who don't care if the genitals you have were constructed by a surgeon or are identical to their own. We like and love you for who you are.
Now I'm sure every trans girl has a story about a man who treated them badly, or who was rude to them on this site. But don't judge all men by one or two bad experiences. Everyone has had relationship problems, whether they are gay, bi, straight or trans. But yo go on, and judge each man or woman as an individual.
Now remember before you all fire up your flame throwers in preparation for a bosco bonfire, this is just my opinion.

cant we burn bosco anyway? i got my flame thrower out especially! it wud be a shame to put it back without using it! hehe

I agree completely with Katie. It is nonsense to get all worked up over a label. I can't believe anyone honestly loses sleep over it. Besides, even Bosco was able to figure out which one he was, proves that they work, lol. Love, you Bosco, smile.

Love,
Marsha

If you're looking for a non-descript word to use instead of "Admirer", how about "Bosco"?
Femmy

How about...TF...aka Transgendered Friend....still gender neutral and it has a more positive ring to it.

NOTE: my little brain didn't think this up, a fantastic lady from the chat last night thought it up. i'm SORRY to say i can't remember which fantastic lady becaue i spoke to so many.

Katie,

I agree that any "new" term for admirers MUST my free from being mis-construed, or mis-interpreted.

So, taking the Transgender Friend, and turning around a bit, we endup with FTT ........................ Friend of the Transgendered.

I think that covers most if not all of the "problems.

Just a suggestion!

Hugs,
Angela. xx.

OK, at the risk of this comment ruffling some ones feathers, of which there is NO intent to do so,,,, here goes my 2 cents.

I don't like the "labels" that are out there, however it seems they are a way of life, good or bad.

Personaly, I do not "label" myself other than ~ 1. - Female 2. A Girl

Now I realize some may disagree with this, that is your choice.
How I refer to myself is mine.

It would seem to me that if you do not like one of the labels that are already in place here, simply choose - "none of the above" how simple is that?

If we really need to add more "labels" then why not just add - 1. Male 2. Female to the list we have already?

Bridgette

how about "Friend of Transgendered" to help defuse any confusion? I believe it wont matter how well the "labels" are engineered to defuse misunderstanding, they are always going to represent different meanings to different people. In my opinion a more comprehensive list will help people define themselves more clearly in the first instance.

And I am sure this will satisfy Bosco "Robert DeNiro" Anaconda.

A note on a different aspect regarding the forum, I notice names are given depending on how many posts one has made, a bit of fun, but they always feminine specific. I am sure genuine males dont mind so much but I am sure F2M men find this quite offensive.

bye for now
Penny xxx

Hello Bosco i guess Thrall would be out of the question or Worshiper lol.Heck go for Pimp Daddy !!!!!!

When this thread started I was laying on a couch in the A&E of the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford. I wasn't really doing much thinking other than trying to work out how ill I was likely to be. Sitting next to me was Bob, my darling fiance. So in "title" terms is Bob my Admirer or Partner? As a TV is Belinda (Bob's femme side) a TV or an admirer? Am I an Admirer as the TS fiancee of Bob? We can go on for hours asking these or similar types of questions.
I believe most of us don't like titles. However we often need to use them to identify where we fit into a group. On one site I'm a member of my title is Significant Other/Partner because I want to be known as a woman not a pre operative transsexual. To me it's better than being an Admirer.

So what am I trying to say? Well we may not like these titles but the term Admirer is fairly universal throughout the T-community. It's the same with those that say they are a TV not a Cross Dresser. One day we may agree to no titles but in the meantime they are there. Lets just use what we have.

Alina xx

How about transgender friendly or T/G friendly eliminates the ambiguity of transgendered freind gets rid of the word admirer (which has troll conotations) and states mater of factly that we are friendly towards transgenderd people

Uhm Nikki, are you on drugs or something. Agreeing with me? But you are right, or is it I am right, stop stealing my stuff, lol. Who seriously gives a rip what the label is. You have too much time on your hand if debating the value of a label is worth the effort. The only place it might seemingly matter is the chatroom and all I can say is:

YOU'RE ON STAGE NOW, EVERYONE IS LOOKING AT YOU, CONVINCE US YOU ARE A NICE PERSON AND WE WILL TREAT YOU LIKE A NICE PERSON.

Hugs,
Marsha

They were called TFs in my day, too.

But it didn't stand for Tranny-Friend. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

/K
x

ummmmm......Daddy?

Sorry, I honestly couldn't think of a real answer. To me they are just cool guys. Open minded guys.

Just, thanks for jumping into our dating pool, gents. Don't be afraid to get into the deep end.

Z

TF ?, !, We 'Ron Storme' & myself change that wording very many long years ago as it most certainly didn't mean Transgendered Friend ,. as it was then used to mean 'Tranny fcuk'er' !, so we started to change it,. though some remarked that the wording 'TA' could mean T Army ? , Yeah right,. but TA slowly came about at/ from our TV club AKA , ''The Ron Storme's Club Travestie Ecxtraordinaire'' , which I closed down some ten {10} years ago in Respect, .So from my point of view, for what it's worth, that's about how we started the wording of '' TA'' ,...

'' When my age isn't so much an issue as an aphrodisiac''

In the meanwhile,
Enjoy & Be Happy,
Take Care,
Peter Ron Storme. (;-},...

I've got the perfect name for them. How about "MEN?" Yeah, that has a nice ring to it.

Z

I have often wondered why some men prefer transgendered people - but then again, there are many different "stages" of being TG. Many girls here have no interest in having SRS - but still associate with being female.
It might be a good idea to have a questionnaire for all the people on this site as to why we are attracted to certain types of people, sexual preferences, and stage of transition that most fulfills our needs. As for myself, I like to flirt with transgendered people...but I want a lover that is "all man" - and one who considers me as "all woman."

------------------------------------------------------------

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

HOWS about giving a more ralistic handle like ah i know......
" Wont take no for an answer ill show you my wiener on msn pain in the buts" or isnt that strong enough

yours fridgidly sabini xoxo

Yes, its a shame isn’t it Crissie. I am very accepting of anyone who wants to be apart of the transgender community. However, it is very disrespectful of men who call themselves admirers when all they really want is gay sex. Its very disrespectful of them to treat us this way because its hard enough trying to cope with being transgendered and dealing with the nature of our bodies let alone people who only see us as blokes in frocks who add to our conflict and misery by asking about our privates.

If an admirer cant respect us from the start then they stand no chance. I am all up for experimenting and exploring all avenues to ensure the choices in life I make are the right ones. If I decide to engage intimacy with a man and my "male" genitalia become involved it will be gay sex.

I feel quite strongly about this because I am fed up with guys chatting me up saying they are not gay and all they want to do is suck my thing. The other line they come out with is that they are very respecting and understanding of girls like us because they are very discreet in respecting our privacy and can be in and out in five minutes! To which I respond, with sarcasm, well, how is it possible to take me out to a restaurant and cinema in five minutes?

I respect admiriers who earned it.

Ok, I seem to of ranted lol! Maybe I needed it

Love & Hugs
Penny
Xxxxx

I agree Wendy. Unfortunately, the term "Admirier", for me, has become a term I associate with negative and disrespectful behaviour towards me by people who refer to themselves as admirers. I doubt there is an easy solution to come up with a new label or concept, as there are plenty of people who call themselves non-gay admirers who just want to suck tranny willy and any new concept or method will soon be adopted by these blaggards. If these people can’t be honest with themselves how can they be honest with anyone else?

I treat everyone as an individual regardless of what “label” they may adopt or be judged by others with. I have lots of respect for some admirers.

Love
Penny
x

Ron Stormes was a legendary place. I cherish my memories of every visit... an honour to have you here

/K

Hi Bosco. I don’t see why that should make anyone angry. You seem like a nice, and together sort of person, that’s all that counts in my book. I’m sure there are plenty of men who would have a problem with someone’s genitals being constructed by a surgeon (though I haven’t got round to exploring that yet), so it’s refreshing to hear from someone who doesn’t have issues with it.
Actually I’ve never had problems with any of the men on this site, the ones who stick around are all intelligent, and lovely. I have though had some bizarre suggestions from transvestites here, saying what they’d like to do with me, I mean, really bizarre…
So I guess all you can do is to lead by example. All the TA’s who regularly post in the forums come across as decent people, so I hope anyone who has had bad experiences in the past will realise that not all TA’s are the same. As far as I’m concerned you are just guys with an open mind, and I admire you all in return.
Keep up the good work, geezer.
xx
Is that a mandolin by the way?
I was going to say, "or are you just pleased to see me"... but I thought better of it.

Bosco,

If you check, you will find that I thought your post was such a good idea that I separately started a parallel thread in this forum from your post in TRANNYWEB WISHLIST. ("A rose by any other name") Not all wishes can be dealt with this quickly but I felt this was one we could address right away.
There are other gentlemen and ladies who like and love transgendered women who feel the same way you do about the use of "TA". Ok, Bosco, what is your preference? There has been an indication that TA has become a dirty word with some girls and guys, though I am not among them. Let's hear what the other gentlemen and ladies who like and love transgendered women think would be an acceptable term because I am NOT going to keep saying "gentlemen and ladies who like and love transgendered women" in place of TA for the rest of my life, lol...... so find us a consensus of opinion folks. Believe me, I sincerely wish you all luck.

Why does it have to be a drop-down? Surely there is enough technology now to allow you to entern your preferred designation. (Limited number of characters, naturally)

Bosco, I am not a fan of the term 'admirer' since it seems to be used so negatively now. Personally I don't really refer to the guys here as anything but, well, 'guys' or 'men' actually since that is what you are.

Like Lucy, I have not had any problems with any of the men who use this site and have found them to be open minded and friendly for the most part. Those who are here for something purely sexual soon realise it's not a dating site and leave anyway. That's not to say that people don't meet up and get together, they do, but that isn't the main point of the site.

I think if more of you guys got involved here in the forums and the chatrooms, we could all get to know each other a little better and help prevent all the negative views about ment that do exist sometimes. I accept that sometimes these are justified through bad experience though, so let's try to change that.

Nikki

It's all very well for people to say that they hate labels but sometimes there is a real need for them. In this two-dimensional world that comes to you through your computer monitor, people need to know who they are talking to or reading about.

That's why when we introduce ourselves we say who we are, where we are from and what we do.

As the focus of this community is transgender, it is only right and polite that we should also tell people how we fit into the transgender world.

So, genetic men and women who have a liking for transgender people need to be called something.

I'm afraid the drop-down list is very necessary to force people to use the same term - the term that is closest to how they feel. A free for all would never work because we need one single term that everyone can understand.

Imagine, if everyone had their own word for carrots and some folk called them 'wibbles' and others called them 'sliggs' and others called them 'biffypops' and so on. You get the idea - it would be utter chaos. That's why we need to find a single term that most people will be happy with, that doesn't sound creepy (as perhaps admirer does) and then stick to it.

And if our new title doesn't quite ring true for you, then you can always add more detail in your description if you want. It's the same for transsexuals. Some want it to be known that they are pre or post op, others don't. We leave the decision of whether or not to display that information to the world, to each individual user.

However, I agree that the word "admirer" has become somewhat tarnished in recent years and may even sound a little pervy now.

So, let's start again. If not "admirer", then what would you prefer?

Remember that not all admirers are guys. Also, whatever term you suggest will need to be descriptive enough to let everyone know you mean admirer but without upsetting the bearer of the title.

Maybe it's time for us to make up an entirely new word that has never been used before. Let's see if we can get it into the Oxford English Dictionary. You can't use 'biffypops' though because that means carrots!

Hugs,

Katie x

"I'm afraid the drop-down list is very necessary to force people to use the same term - the term that is closest to how they feel. A free for all would never work because we need one single term that everyone can understand. "

Good point Katie. That's why you have a site and I don't LOL.

And no, I have no better ideas...yet!

XX

I actually don’t much care for the term “Tranny”, though I’d never complain about it or suggest for one moment that we remove its use from our site, and as a result have to call ourselves Wibbleweb or something. When I was at school, “Tranny” was used in a derogatory way, perhaps its use has been adopted by us in the same way that many homosexuals are now happy to call themselves “queer”.
Anyhow, this is irrelevant to the subject, and actually I don’t have a problem with using labels as such. I am transsexual, though (cliché approaching…) I don’t walk around with it stamped on my forehead (ironic though that so many TS’s like me say that and yet our foreheads ARE actually such male, I mean um, trans markers).
As much as I don’t like the term tranny I can see why someone would not like the term tranny admirer. Though I can’t really see why the “admirer” part bothers people I think “tranny friend” sounds fine, or “transgender friend” as was suggested is perhaps even better.
However the TA’s, sorry, TF’s feel about their own particular label I’d just like to say once again that that label doesn’t influence my opinion on them as people, nor does any label.
What matters is not what it says on the tin, but what’s inside .
xx
Nearly teattime, I'd best go and peel some sliggs.

‘Transgendered Friend’ is a good suggestion, except that it can be taken two ways...

Either in the way you mean it - a friend of the transgendered, or in another completely different way - a friend who is transgendered - a transgendered friend.

I think that whatever title we ultimately decide to use in place of the word "admirer", must not be ambiguous in any way.

It should either say exactly what it means, with no possibility of anyone misinterpreting it, or it should be a new word (or words) with no other meaning.

This is an important step. We're talking about changing the way that refer to a whole group of people in the TG world. If it's catchy it could be taken up by other sites and by the whole community.

We need to ensure that we get this right so please keep those ideas coming.

Hugs,

Katie x

Yes, "Freind of the Transgendered" is not ambiguous in any way. However, it doesn't really roll off the tongue.

Let's put it at the top of the list so far and see if anything else turns up that is a little more succinct.

I still like "wibbles" but unfortunately that means carrots!

Hugs,

Katie x

Sliggs, Katie - sliggs are carrots.
Who said labels aren't necessary?
I'm a person who likes to call a spade... a biffypop.
You invent the best words, Katie.
xx

BiffypopWeb might bring in more surfers, but I don't think It will increase membership in any deeply fulfilling way.

Come on Friends, let's here some more opinions from you. You have to live with the choice we come up with so if you want to avoid being called Biffypoppers, speak up. This may be the first site with social support for you. You could be making history here.

I don't like labels but we do need them, however they don't affect how I see a person. Call me old fashioned but I like to get to know the person and then form an opinion on them.

Anyway, here's a few tongue in cheek suggestions:

SPORT - SuPorter Of Regular and Transgendered girls
FROG – FRiend Of transgendered Girls
SOFTE – Supporter Of Females, Transgendered and Everyone in between

Or more seriously, how about Tranny Supporter? It sounds positive and you can always expand in your profile. It also doesn't assume you are here for one thing only. The downside is the initials are TS..........which will lead to confusion.............TSp maybe?

Sorry but that's the best I can do on a wet Monday afternoon.

Nikki

Not a bad suggestion.

Nikki

Nikki,
I'm afraid that Tranny Supporter sounds like some kind of athletic gaff. Sorry.

I must concur with Katie, whilst not using lables to lump everyone into a preconcieved idea of what a TA is, we do need lables,
Jam is Jam, Marmaldae is different, as is honey and syrup. Most of the TA's I think are happy being called TA's and in the main, I find them curteous and sensative, The odd few who are basically homosexuals in self denial and seeking sex with a tranny,
(oops that word again) to convince themselves they are not gay if they take up a social exchange of bodily fluids with one of us, never stick around long enough. When their motives are discovered. There are some realy lovely men on this site, And I admire the Admirers. Their support and genuine understanding is very much appreciated. God belss these Knights in shinning armour , May people like St, keith continue with their support.

In response to Nikki's post FROG sounds good, we could go round kissing all the men and see who turns out to be a genuine Prince charming, those that fail the test we could cut their legs off and export them to France, the legs I mean. But a witty and good respose by Nikki. Keep the humour coming Nikki it sort of gives that little somthing extra to the threads.

Josie Brissette calls herself a tranny supporter in her profile. When we're together, though, all labels are gone.

But, tranny friend sounds nice as well.

Marsha is always fond of saying 'to hell with labels, who cares about them? Get over it' ...........And she's right too! (Hope you don't me pinching that Marsha)!

They are just something to go by when we're here, the reality is, if the guy is a decent sort, I'll call him by his name. If he isn't, then I will use some other not so nice words that I can't even spell on here like #*ckin$ O£*&ck!!

Nikki

I must say it's a privilege to see you here as a member Peter. I used to frequent Stormes myself and met the great Ron many times.

In more recent times there has been much the same controversy surrounding the word "Tranny", which was perfectly okay when we started this site back in 1999. Times change though and now, as least in some parts of the world, Tranny is terrible insult. Pity.

Hugs, Katie x

Hi Zoe,

It has a nice simplicity, but it only applies to to a majority of TA's, not all. There are female admirers and even other TG's who would qualify as TA's.

It's complicated.

Best,
Melody

I kinda like the term admirer, for the genuine ones. The keefs and Matts to name but a couple. Everyone to their own what they fancy whatever. I have on several occasions tho had, pm's in the chat room which eventually ended up being asked how big was my willy, when I said I no longer have one, it was a case of Oh! what a pity and you looked so hot.

I still like Transgender Friendly as an all-inclusive term for non-TG persons who are......friendly.