Hi everyone, hope you are all ok. I have posted in the introductions section as i have only been on here for 2 weeks, but my question is, i would like to start taking some form of hormones, i know that self medicating is dangerous and has alot of risks, but i feel i must begin to explore my feminine desires, and i have a massive desire to have breasts and be more feminine. So if i choose to do this is there any form of hormone that is less risky to use, maybe a patch or gel. And also where can i buy it from in the UK and what type of doseges should i be taking. I understand that this is alot of questions but i feel desperate. I know going to my GP will take ages before they consider giving me any hormone treatments and ive plucked up the courage to start this now, i dont know how long i can wait to become Roxanne. Thank you for any advice you have. xxx

Roxanne, Lucy covered hormones well and her suggestion to seek professional help is really the most important point. The point I would like to add is hormones will not make you more feminine, in that respect you are what you are. As for breast growth, you are talking years for any significant growth if you get any at all. If you want breasts now, buy some good quality breastforms. You will need them anyways because breast growth from hormones is like watching a turtle race. Meanwhile you may as well seek professional aid with your healthcare system.
Best wishes,
Marsha

I would say that Marsha Ann is not quite right because hormones are more then just breasts and they DO make a lot of changes to you and how fast or good they work depends on your amount of alpha and beta oestrogen receptors found in your body. Why should it take years to grow breasts? That’s not true though. Breasts starts to grow fairly fast in most cases but they will maybe take 5 years to be fully developed but you can reach a A-CUP WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR ON HORMONES!!

Let me put it this way; You can have a car with no engine and you fill up the tank with fuel but at the end of the day the tank will be empty because all of the fuel went out trough the tube but the car did not move a millimetre. Now oestrogen receptors is what’s needed to make oestrogen work and as more oestrogen receptors you have, as more effect oestrogen will do to your body. Oestrogen is carried with the blood and oestrogen receptors will catch the hormone like if it was the fish in the river and you were the fisherman.

Having said that, breasts are always an issue and some girls does not grow breasts at all. I know a TS that has been on hormones for years with zero outcome but are still taking them and are still hoping. Me on my side have very good developments because I react on oestrogen as I expected and I believe it’s simply because I’ve got the oestrogen receptors that are needed.

Now, I find it strange that Lucy takes such a “high” does of oestrogen when she is post-op but I guess she knows what she does but I would say that if you’re post-op and haven’t had the developments you expected, 1 or 10mg of oestrogen would not make a big difference because what you are then missing is alpha and beta oestrogen receptors.

I believe self-medicating is not more dangerous than drinking beer on a pub even though I don’t drink, but you MUST know what you are doing and you MUST take all blood tests at least every 3-4 months to start with and then every 6 months for then to have them done once a year. If you understand your blood work, you know more about yourself then any GP or what ever can tell you.

So starting with oestrogen on your own for a month to see how you react on it is in fact good because one month would not harm you at all. Oestrogen will make things happen but it takes long time and as longer you take them as more changes you will notice if you think back in time because you don’t notice them as they are happening.

Beside the breast developments and fat re-distribution I can tell what oestrogen did to me;

Before I did not like water… now I drink a lot of water
Before I did not eat fish or seafood… now I love seafood
Before I did not eat vegetables… now I love vegetables
Before I did not eat much fruits… now I eat a lot of fruits
Before I did not notice colours… now I love colours in a very special way
Before I did not I did not smell things in the same way I smell things today
Before I did not notice how people are dressing but now I see very well whom I think are dressing right and whom are not…
Before I was not interested in female clothing magazines etc. but now I can dig into them again and again.
Before I did not like cooking… now I love cooking

I could tell you hundreds of things that has changed and it has not change because me are me but I believe it has changed due to oestrogen and the way it has made me feel different then before… So go for it, why waste time to find out if you can do it today but remember you MUST know what you are doing before you passes 3 months on oestrogen and be careful because oestrogen is addicting and hard to stop because you will miss it and you will need it… My love is oestrogen and Progestosterone but NATURAL Progestosterone not the chemical junk.

xxx Natalie

Natalie, first off we do not advocate self medication at Trannyweb. We are not doctors, we do not know the readers health history. Are you advocating killing diabetics by telling them taking hormones is OK? Did you know that? What about those with liver issues? You advocate lab tests but fail to tell the reader which ones and how to read the results. By the way, who is paying for all this stuff? The very simple point I was trying to make was hormones will not change you from an ordinary guy to a feminine woman. Likes and dislikes change for everyone and breast development may or may not occur. Finally you mention progesterone, progesterone is one of the most argued about medications whether it is even necessary for a MTF. I am not trying to argue with you, just pointing out each of us is different.
Hugs,
Marsha

Sure Marsha I did not want to make an argument or any harm to or with anyone, just pointed out some facts which is facts seen by my knowledge on the subject and I simply only wanted to share it with others as that’s what forums are for? (I hope)

I know people having diabetes and still using female hormones under doctors’ supervision so also this is not clear as black and white and it also depends what kind of diabetes they have.

Anyhow I said that people MUST know what they are doing “… you MUST know what you are doing and you MUST take all blood tests…” and by that you must also know what blood tests to take but again you don’t take your own blood tests but as in my case, I do it at the hospital so they know what tests are needed so why make a point of it?

There is several ways to know how to read your blood tests and it’s not a magic at all and I’m sure, you that has been on hormones for years now knows how to read them but maybe did not know before you started taking such blood tests, right? It’s all logic in this and we can leave the “magic” outside? You are right that we are not doctors but I will also say that doctors are also not transsexuals.

Another thing is that most transsexuals in the world are in fact self medicating and you can’t turn a blind eye to it because that is a facts. People in the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Americas and some Pacific’s islands has no requirements that you need prescription to buy hormones and that’s why you can also buy online as at least one of them are shipping from Vanuatu Island.

Having said that, for sure the best is to see your doctor or GP about it but in many cases TS know more about their own condition then what the GP knows and often when people see their doctor or GP they might prescribe hormones that are not good for you at all so it’s also a fact that the doctors advice can be “dangerous” to your health as it is also the case for menopausal females on HRT. Lucy did mention a clear scale of what hormones are safe and which one is not. She’s not a doctor but she have done her homework on the subject so she knows and she share her knowledge with others which is very much appreciated.

Progestosterone is debated, that is true but you can ask girls like Lucy that takes Utrogestan if she’s happy about it? Because the best part with Progestosterone is its ability to burn fat to energy. In addition there is several other things Progestosterone is good for so the debate if “TS need it” or not does not hold because it’s not all about breasts but general health.

xxx Natalie

Natalie I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but the problem I have seen is gals want to take the medication first, then ask questions. I believe they would be far better off first understanding the medicines and effects, maybe more so the side effects, before starting meds. I self-med for about two years between doctors so please understand I really do know where you are coming from. I am a firm believer in researching and understanding what you are doing to your body, whether you have a doctor or not. On the other hand there are individuals like a friend of mine that don't want to know anything about it and leave it up to their doctors.
Hugs,
Marsha

That is interesting because I did read a news article once about general medication given by doctors and its proven that many elderly doctors prescribes wrong medications because they prescribed the same thing for decades and lost contact with new developments within medicine.

This was not about hormones but I think doctors prescribing Premarin and synthetic Progestosterone falls into this category?

I never really trusted my doctor because he don’t really know much about TS but I get what I ask for so that’s OK and I have no problems what so ever with the way I run my life. I’m very happy as I am and I’m very grateful to the hormones I take because I know what they do and have done to me, which a non-transsexual doctor only can imagine. You know what I’m talking about as I guess we both lives a happy life and congratulations to your name change which I think is a fascinating thing. I did not change my name because most people call me Natalie anyway so I don’t see a big urge to change it. I had my FFS made in Thailand and that made so no people believe I was born male anyway.

I’m not sure if this thread was any help with regards to self-medicating but I think a good rule would be not to mention how many mg’s of hormones people take because what fits one does not fit another and I feel what Lucy takes as post-op is a bit too much as many pre-op stays on 2-4 mg depending on their testosterone and androgen levels. For instance my testosterone level which was measured last week was only 0.40 ng/ml while normal for pre-menopausal woman is 0.09 to 1.09 or post-menopausal is 0.12 to 1.30. For males pre-andropausal the values are 1.88 to 8.77 or post-andropausal 1.56 to 5.63. This shows my testosterone level can might as well be low as Lucy which is post-op but I’m not and I also take less hormones then what Lucy does – just to compare.

If people that are pre-op think they would need far more hormones then post-op they must think again, because that might not be the case as it's not a fact at all as it all depends on your testosterone/androgens and alpha and beta oestrogen receptors and nothing else (I think) and it’s only your blood tests that can tell you what’s might be right for you. Maybe others know more about this so let's see if we get more replies on the subject?

xxx Natalie

With all due respect, about self-medicating help...

Self-hormoning is tantamount to suicide. The only sensible option is to find treatment through your doctor to a specialist. If you feel your doctor in inexperienced or out of touch then the correct course of action would be to get a different doctor.

The thing about doctors, they spent many years studying to get medical qualifications. If, at the start, they don’t know what you need, they have the best experience and knowledge pool to find out the correct information. I doubt a doctor would spout out half the rubbish you hear on the Internet and forums.

It’s just too much of a risk to take the advice of a random person on a forum. And taking advice from other transsexuals is even worse because people tend to think that a transsexual’s opinion on hormones is the Holy Grail when in fact everyone is different and have different treatment regimes and any advice may be completely inappropriate.

You only have one body, if you mess it up you cant get another.

Thanks for listening to my opinion
Penny
x

There will always be the self-med and anti self-med believers. Everyone tends to want to focus on what the different medicines can positively do for you, but often ignore the potential side effects because they were never a problem for them.

Here are some side effects of estrogen:   
CNS
Convulsions. Dizziness. Headache. Migraine. Mental depression. Spasms of limb and facial muscles.
Eyes
Intolerance to contact lenses. Steepening of corneal curvature.
Gastrointestinal
Abdominal cramps. Bloating. Cholestatic jaundice. Nausea. Vomiting.
Skin
Blotchy skin pigmentation. Localized skin irritation. Loss of scalp hair. Increase of body hair. Red skin patches from capillary congestion.
Other
Blood clotting disorders. Elevated blood pressure. Fluid retention. Glucose intolerance. Increased serum calcium level. Increased sensitivity to light. Liver tumors.

And some side effects of Spironolacton:   
CNS
Confusion. Dizziness. Drowsiness. Headache. Lethargy. Loss of precise motor control.
Gastrointestinal
Cramping. Diarrhea. Dry mouth. Gastric ulceration and other stomach inflammation. Vomiting.
Skin
Acne. Itchy, fluid-filled patches of skin. Increase of body and facial hair. Red skin patches from capillary congestion.
Other
Deepening of the voice. Drug fever. Pottasium retention. Severe decrease of blood granulocytes. Sodium loss.


The problem with side effects is that they don't effect everyone, so generalizing that these medications are used by many self-medicating individuals without problems is irrelevant. The fact is some do have problems and that is why these side effects are listed. Therefore, it is not right here for anyone to play chicken with someone elses life.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hmmmmm...Marsha....is this like where we can choose three items from column A and three from column B all for the same low, low price?

I know I've learned enough in here in the past two months to know that I will not go that route....good thing I found this site....and people like you for advice and wisdom.

Traci

Katie has made it clear that TW is not in the doctor business for legal reasons and we all need to respect that. If individuals want to get together privately and discuss medications and dosages that is fine. However, as one of the mods for the hormone forum, if I come across postings suggesting dosages for hormones, I will edit or delete the post. Discussing meds and the positive along with the negative side effects is one thing, but playing doctor to the masses that come to TW is wrong. Hormones can do amazing things, but they can also destroy families and lives.
Hugs,
Marsha

crissie, i hope the results show something that can be easily remedied. all the best, love penny x

Rae, there are umpteen gazillion sites on the internet from medical sites to quackery sites that have suggested medications and dosages. Yes there are many informed and trustworthy individuals here at TW who have lots of knowledge on the subject of hormones, but with that said, there are many here that have no business recommending any medication to anyone. How do you suggest we qualify the good and bad here?

I work with chemicals everyday and have learned the reasoning of proper dosing. The problem is so often the end user is the abuser. If one scoop, one pill, one whatever is good for you, two must be better and in reality it is just the opposite. Just as Karen pointed out a couple of posts earlier, you have gals injecting silicone into their breast and saying they only live once. With that mentality, do you want those gals here suggesting that to any of your friends?

Here is one more example. As part of my HRT regimen I take a low dose of a cancer drug. When that drug first came out to the market the standard dose was high. Problem was the drug was killing off just about as many as the cancer was. Eventually the standard dose was lowered to 1/3rd of the original and as for HRT, typically only 1/4 of the new lower standard is taken. I would never recommend this medication without a doctor's involvement. Hormones when properly used can be safe. But simply put, they can just as easily destroy lives.

It never ceases to amaze me how many gals in their 40's THINK they lost all years so now they have to make up ground in a hurry. Those are the gals who are going to seek the highest dose they can afford or find and when results don't happen as fast as they HOPED, they will abuse those doses once again in HOPES changes will happen faster. First off they did not lose any of those years, they just didn't live them as maybe they wished they had, but I bet you they had plenty of good and bad days just like everyone else. Next is if they want to live a long and healthy life as desired, they need to take their time and do it right.

Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha now you will have to swallow your own words and edit Lucy’s post as you say “However, as one of the mods for the hormone forum, if I come across postings suggesting dosages for hormones, I will edit or delete the post.” So there you are!!!

In my opinion mentioning doses and what people use is not a bad thing because I was always looking for such information to educate myself some years ago so I’m with Rae on this. If someone would ask me today why I use whatever I use of hormones I could not tell because it’s a combinations of factors happening over time. My GP is good and does not really care what I take as long as my blood tests are OK and because of this we both know its safe for me and its not much of a worry at all. You all know seeing your GP or doctor on hormone issues never takes long. You say “hi” and he/she checks your blood pressure, pulse etc. and ask if you feel OK and that’s it unless you are having your blood tested on the lab then they just take one or two blood samples and off you go. So what’s so special about this?? I would say nothing and it has not changed much since I first went to tell my GP about my issues. All is just routines and you people that go trough this knows that and I can’t say I learned anything from my GP but for sure my GP learned a lot from me. Did you learn anything from your GP?

So forum mod or not, why make such a fuzz about self-medicating? We are not kids and you are not our parents as we all got our own brains to think with, or not? Don’t forget that most GG’s in the world are taking hormones most of their life. First as birth control and then as HRT. Does it make them cleverer then M2F TS? Because for sure for them it’s just normal and far more easy to obtain even more dangerous hormones than what we take even though they use less then what we do but still…

I’m not saying people should do self-medication but if they do don’t scare them to death but respect their choice and you should know that the best gift you can give a friend in knowledge (and not scare them with death).

Natalie the simple point I was making is TW is not a medical information site, there are plenty of other sites out there that make that information available. If you read through my posts here at TW you will see I am one of the biggest promoters of educating yourself on what you are doing. I even said I self medicated for a period of time. You said "We are not kids....", how do you know? Once again, simply put, TW is not in the Doctor business. TW also is not purely a transsexual site, it is amazing how many CD's ask about hormones so they can grow boobs. Hormones are not candy and for someone to carelessly give out dosing information without knowing the intent or health condition of the recipient is wrong. Feel free to help those people in private or by referring them to trustworthy site such as http://www.vch.ca

Let me put it this way. Let's say my husband died of a blood clot and I found out he was taking hormones which he learned about here at TW. And say it was you he was going back and forth with about dose. I would first sue TW (Katie) and next I would go to the end of the earth tracking you down and making sure you paid the price as well. You can continue to believe you are not hurting anyone, but the fact is you don't really know whether you are or not.

As far as scaring people, I disagree. I believe hormones are safe when all things considered; health, dosage, and scheduled monitoring are all incorporated. It is people who carelessly talk about this stuff as if it was candy that scares me.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hi All,
At least we can all agree that each girl here is unique. Not all of us are size 4 , nor are all of us tolerant, to the same level, of various hormones.
What might be safe for you Natalie or you Marsha, could be very wrong for another girl. Let's also not accidentally put Katie (and TW) into a position
of implied legal liability. Lets not forget the "adults" who sued McDonalds (and won a settlement) because they spilled their HOT COFFEE on themselves.

If you are going to post any "dosage info" please protect TW by at least put a REALLY BIG DISCLAIMER on it.

Hugz,
MichelleLynn

YES there we are!!! I’m SO happy because I did not mentioning a single word about what kind of hormones or how much I take so I’m “clean” because I would not tell even if you asked because I believe everyone should find out but them self no matter if they are using GP, self-medicating or what ever. My point is just self-medicating in it self does not kill you and we should not scare people with death. We must remember that taking hormones can make people feel really satisfied with their life and make them happy… well at least I’m very happy and I guess most girls on hormones are?

What I simply pointed out here is that Lucy (the other mod of this forum) says so clearly “I am prescribed 2 x 2mg tablets plus 3mg gel per day. But one should start with just one tablet, OR 0.75mg of gel per day, for several months.” So why don’t you remove this Marsha when you so clearly said you would? I find it strange that you say one thing but your actions does not do what you were saying? Are you playing though? (just joking a bit here) Don’t take me wrong. I don’t mind if it stays in Lucy’s posting but it might make people wonder if you really mean what you said in your pervious postings?

OK I know… I said enough here so I will zip my lips… but you know we girls tends to chat more then we should... Thank you

xxx Natalie

Whilst I never have, or ever will advocate self medding or even discussing dosages and types, Concurring completely with Penny, I do always find Lucy is very erudite regarding this subject, always approaching it with a great deal of thought in a well balanced inteliigent manner, Not sure about giving information on dosages etc, If somone is determined to self administer, they can do no better than Lucy for information rather than listen to some of the drivel and rubbish spouted by others, After all she has been there done it and got the T shirt. I would like to point out tho, there are lots of medical conditions that are not imediately obvious perhaps to the individual, So medical supervision, regular health checks are in my personal opinion a requirement. Apart from my own condition there other similar medical conditions which would influence the taking of hormones and anti androgens, if people could just go to their doctors and know what questions to ask and basically be taken seriously that would be a huge step forward, Doctors do have diverse acces to information relating to other health problems and information that we as individuals do not have and most can make an inteligent and proper summation based on advice from specialists and their overall knowledge. Anyone thinking of transitioning, should make themselves aware of all aspects of conditions relating to GID, AIS, Reifensteins and all the other associated conditions, Its your life, your body, if your determined and dedicated and realy need it, then you will take time out to learn as much as you can. The more you know the easier you will find it to be taken seriously.


Do things in haste, repent at leisure is the key thing here. Speed can kill.

Cristine

I am presently waiting the reults of blood test and physical examination and from what i have told the doctor, a possible diagnosis for CFS Cronic fatigue syndrome, also known as ME Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, as yet not knowing the results
or if it has any bearing on hormone treatments I have been taking. Good job, the doctor is aware of my prescriptive treatments along with the regular check ups and evaluations as to my ongoing health. See what the results are and keep you updated,

Cristine

I was watching a show about 3 different TS's. One girl was hard for money to continue her treatment. So she resorted to backroom help. Getting silicon injections to have larger breasts from someone she didn't realy know. In fact she had to get on a list & wait for her turn. While being interviewed her responce to all the health risk were that no one lives forever.

Mmm. I read the HC threads avidly but rarely comment. That, I'm afraid, is because I struggle with a level of medical illiteracy that would shame my more savvy sisters. But I'm working on it. And it's increasingly important that I do so.

And the point I want to raise is that, as I sift through the mass of information about the plethora of hormones et al, I find it very useful indeed to read about the dosages people are on / started with etc. How else would I have a clue?

I appreciate - and wholeheartedly support - that TW is not a medical site nor should be seen as such. But it is an invaluable educational research resource for all of us.

I am very fortunate that my GP happens to have gender identity as a specialism that she is very interested in. Obviously, I find her incredibly supportive. But she does'nt know everything. Whilst I trust her, I would want to satisfy myself that the level of hormones she prescribes falls within a rough average of expectancy. Without knowing what others started with I would have no recourse other than to take what is given. I prefer an informed choice.

Hope that makes sense!

Much love

Rae xx

[NB: I appreciate that, in the UK, it appears that - for example - the powers that be at Charing Cross determine the level of prescription. (Am I right???) But as they are so incredibly slow to dole out a meeting, my GP and I are looking to press ahead regardless].