I was chatting with a friend this morning and the topic "going stealth" came up. My friend has been fulltime for nearly 3 years now and seeing some of the issues she has faced has helped me immensely. She has always been confident in her belief what she is doing is right. All and all she passes fine yet a certain issue remains. She believed most people would accept her, not only for what she was doing, going through transition, but the people in her life would accept her as female. I have watched her battle with this for quite some time now and it has been very tough at times to see her get so down over the little things like someone using male pronouns. Today she said the people who know of her past will never see her as a female and the only way for that to happen would be to move on where nobody knows her.

Personally that has always been my belief, that those who know our past will not likely ever see us as a female. They may love us, like us, fully accept us, whatever, but still we will never be a true female to them. My friend now has come to accept that and I think maybe because of it she is actually happier. Not that she doesn't want to be considered female by all, but now she doesn't have to beat herself up when someone uses a male term towards her.

My life is where I am, so going stealth for me is pretty much out of the question. I am ok with being TS. I am curious what others think on this issue. I have heard over the years some get upset that someone apparently has left the TG community. Maybe that is good for them and we don't always see that.

Hugs,
Marsha

I have someone I would like to call a friend in my life, someone that literally saved my marriage for me and helped my wife understand what being transsexual was all about. This friend has a very well known profile and depending which circle you associate with there is a love or hate relationship of this person. Those who hate her hate her because she is not an activist in the transsexual community. There was a time she made news possibly around the world and many saw her as a symbol to line up behind so they could march forward. But she didn't want that, she wanted to quietly live her life with her family. I don't feel gals like that should be talked about in a bad way, yet that is what happened to her. So in reality she had to go stealth not to get away from those who knew her as a man, but instead she went stealth to distance herself from the TG community that was trying to tell her how to live her life. I think there are a lot of ways going stealth can be looked at, this is just another one to consider.
Hugs,
Marsha

Even though I think I pass at all times, I don't think this stealth idea is a good thing unless you have plans to move to another place anyway. I think most families are moving to a new city or new country once or twice in their life and when they do, they don’t know anybody so I think if you choose to move you can but that should not be based on the sole idea of going stealth.

I have moved several times so I could call it going stealth but I don’t because I always visit and get visits from old friends.

It does happen my mum says “he” to me when we are shopping and I just think it’s funny and it’s her that are getting shy when she realised that she said “he” instead of “she”. Some times she also calls me with my male name when we are out together and then I just tell her to use Natalie next time. She then says she just forgot.

xxx Natalie

I kind of disagree with gals needing to be able to pass 100% of the time to go stealth. I think you can get away with keeping people guessing. I also believe going stealth doesn't necessarily mean nobody has to know your situation, but rather only those you want to know. The response here has really made me optimistic because so many have talked about friends and family. I believe for us to eventually be fully accepted into the mainstream it will take support from friends and family standing by us and telling others what kind of people we really are. In reality, we are few in number but with continued support of friends and family we are many.

I think everyone touched on the friends but I really liked the way Lucy covered that point. Like her I could never leave the people in my life. I have not been full time for very long so it is still a learning experience for everyone in my life. I must say my good friend John has been stellar in referring to me as she and her.

Hugs,
Marsha

I liked the "guess" part Marsha because that's how it is; people are guessing and I often think "what did he/she think" when they look. An observation is that there is mostly guys and elderly woman that looks at me. Guys so often look me strait into my eyes but females if they look they scan my body from top to toe. I think those that are guessing look first at my face, then at my breasts and I still think it leave them with guessing.

The only once know is those I speak with but it does not make them less friendly at all.

xxx Natalie

Wow Wendy, that was a really interesting point about going through the fear of discovery again. That hadn't really crossed my mind but OMG, I am so thankful that is far behind me. And you are right, I can see exactly that if living stealth, the fear someone will figure you out and point you out to the world. Truly a scary thought.
Hugs,
Marsha

I think we are working on different definitions of stealth which is fine Lucy. I consider stealth to be living in a community different than the one you transitioned in, where you don't make it known to anyone about your circumstances other than maybe your closest friends. But you are right that public records could be easily traced back to your prior life. Really with either definition, yours or mine, it sounds like nobody who has responded to this thread considers going stealth a needed option. I think possibly another factor in determining whether or not you might want to go stealth would be the size of community you transition in. In a small town where everyone seems to know everyone else's business, a gal may not feel it is possible to start a new life. Whereas in a large city a new life could possibly be started with just a job change.

When I started this thread it was more about curiosity whether or not others saw the need to live a stealth life for any reason. I think we all are aware of others who have attempted to go stealth, whether they succeed or not is not always known. Another downside to going stealth are those news stories we have all read where a gal is murdered after it is discovered she is TS. I think one of those stories is on the TW news feed right now.

I have now lived fulltime, 24/7, for 9 months and as I have become more comfortable, more confident in my new life, I find I have less of a desire to go stealth. I like who I am and I am not afraid to say I'm transsexual. If someone doesn't like it, screw em, lol.

Hugs,
Marsha

Karen, what an excellent analogy. Call it stealth or whatever you want, but maybe it is really about going somewhere that you won't constantly be reminded about your past.

That might also cover Rose's point about being outed as fearful but rather an annoyance. I think if you made it to the point of living FT being outed would not be a big deal. However, if you are one of those gals that really gets upset over being reminded of your past, and I believe there are plenty of those gals, a change of scenery so to speak could be a good move.

Lucy talked more about the fact we all have a history and I couldn't agree more with her. For me I don't feel I need to hide from my past, it was part of my life filled with plenty of good times as well as bad times. But once again you hear gals in there 40's, 50's, and 60's talking about how they lost all those years and need to transition right now. Sure we have all experienced it is something we have to do, but can you really say you lost all those years? I wonder if maybe the gals who view it that way are more likely to try and go stealth. And once again as Karen so nicely put it, being somewhere that they will not be reminded of their past.

Hugs,
Marsha

Nikki I find people don't even need to have known you as male for 10+ years... I have difficulty with people who knew me as male for a week... or even just met me maybe once... thats all it takes... to have them screwing up pronouns.

At my old workplace there were people calling me my birthname whom.... I had never been introduced to.... people I never met at all... even after I came out and asked everyone not to use my birthname... new people i never met would cropp up using that name on me... apparently having been instructed by one of my coworkers to do so... maybe to start trouble? I don't know.

But yeah... I still have to hear people give me crap like "I'M" being unreasonable that... after 2 or 3 years of being Julie... they still havent been able to get past the few weeks they knew me by my birthname. And theyll be like "but i knew you as a guy for sooo long" and Im like... uhhhh no you didn't.... ive been out for 3 years and you've just chosen to ignore it this whole time lol... so i dunno... its whatever... people dont care.... doesnt matter how long they knew you... all they need to know is that you have or had a penis and you are a man to them.. and thats it. lol Cause people are jackasses

Julie, that brings up another point that concerns everyone and that is whether the name or pronoun used is accidental or intentional. I think most of the people we know that accept us you would call accidental should they use the wrong name. However when someone makes the deliberate point to call you by your birth name or pronoun you have to ask what was the motive behind that. I don't see any easy answer beyond it will take time. How much time depends on us in my opinion. As tough as it may be we have to endure some abuse and demonstrate that we are good people and not the stereotypes these people were raised on.
Hugs,
Marsha

Stealth can also be that people just don't recognise you as it happened to me. I went to a company I used to know and went into the office where they used to pay me. I knew a woman there for years and when I asked her if she knew whom I was, she replied "I never met you in my life" so I had to explain for the whom Natalie was in the past and she was just amazed by the transformation from male to female.

So that is also in my opinion some sort of "stealth mode" which is that people just don't recognise you from your past.

xxx Natalie

Stealth is a very nerve wracking way to live. One has to be "on" at all times and be very careful not to slip up and tell someone a story from their past which might cause suspicion. But the biggest threat is the dreaded credit check! Whenever you go to purchase a car, home, etc your past credit history will come up! Records are everywhere!!!
It's waaaay more peaceful to be out. Yes, people will see you as not quite female but they will know that you are a whole lot more female than male. It's just part of the deal. I'm sorry but that's the way it is.

Great topic Marsha...

I'm probably "more or less" stealthy, now.

In my hometown where I worked up until three years ago, the staff of about 80 people in various departments, were right there beside me when I transitioned four years ago. Nothing stealthy about that. And I'm sure that a number of them mentioned it to associates in other cities, but these people would likely never meet me; so that wasn't a big deal. (a large national company, about 40,000 employees) There were a number of people in my own department from other cities that knew about my transition. Many of them were coming and going to my location for training, so word of "the tranny" got around to most of the 500 or so people in my department.

Three years ago, I took a job transfer half way across the country, from the Midwest to San Francisco Bay. Within California, everyone in my department knows about my past. And probably most of the company employees in the Bay Area know something about my past. But beyond that, I don't think that there are too many that have figured it out; only those I've chosen to inform. So, in that regard, I'm mostly stealth.

One of the reasons I specifically transferred to SF Bay, was for the more liberalized attitude of the general population. Most people around here wouldn't care if I chose to wear a tutu with my steel-toe boots anyway! I have to wear the boots, but the tutu is optional. LOL!

Regarding the concept of effectively "turning my back on the TS/TG community" by limiting my involvement in community events, or being an activist; by living in stealth.... I basically just want to be me. I don't want to "put myself out there". That's just not me, not who I am. I don't deny the facts to anyone when politely questioned. I know I don't pass 100%, I just do the best I can with what I have.

I don't mean this in a mean spirited way to anyone, but I'm starting to think the need to go stealth is really something in ones head. Maybe it is a continuation of the fear of rejection that I think most of us can identify with. I know for me now that I am out to about 200 customers, I now look forward to talking about my situation with anyone who inquires. Beyond that I am like San Francisco Nicole and would consider myself "mostly stealth." As for being an activist like Nicole G, I am more of an activist inside the TG community wanting to promote a more professional image.

There have also been a lot of great points about whether or not fully going stealth is even possible. Or that going stealth may set you up for a future fall. I guess what it comes down to is finally reaching the point where we feel we can be happy. Obviously some need more than others to make them happy and there is nothing wrong with that. I guess sometimes I just worry about some gals that let a lot of this bother them to the point of depression. I'm not sure what the answer is for them other than for them to see that lots of us are able to just do fine in the world even with everyone knowing our circumstances.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread, lots of great insight.

Hugs,
Marsha

heres my 10p worth...

For me, going stealth would be dishonest and maybe imply I was ashamed of who I was? I believe anyone going stealth, unless at a young age like 20, would actually be detracting from the wealth of their life? Everyone knows me as Penny and everyone makes effort to refer to me as feminine, of course there are many slip ups but it is always followed by an apology and a correction. I often say I dont mind because I know it wasnt meant in malice.

The times when I go to the shops or Library and am refered to as "mate","mr" or "him" it must be hard to tell that I am a woman with the stubble thing going on. I found solace with the idea that after the mones have taken affect and my stubble has been magic wonded away with the starwars laser satelite thingy that I will be more passable and might start to receive feminine referals instead.

Someone said to me, "Why do I do it to myself? Why dont I move somewhere where no one knows me?" - I supose you have to weigh up your life. This is where my daughter lives, I have loads of friends and I know the city very well, why on earth should I move? all for a few small minded idiots? no, I think I will stick around and make their lives a misery! haha

and one example, my neighbour must have recently figured out I am a trans woman because I have been receiving wolf whistles in a derogatory maner when I traverse to and from my abode. I have since reported this hate crime and I have been told that if it happens again that they will take action against this antisocial behaviour. I have to say, I was quite astounded by the proactive stance that was taken. Instead of feeling dirty and degraded by this sexual harisment I now feel conviction and proud to be who I am.

I supose, where it is a matter of quality of life with the affects of gender dsyphoria that one has to choose whether they can tolerate the odd incorrect referal of gender or uproot ones entire life and move to another city. My friends have been great but I can imagine how awful it must be if the majority of friends refered to me incorrectly. I wouldnt consider them as friends to keep.

Going stealth scares me, what if you got married and then got found out? I prefer to be able to sleep at night.

Love Penny x
ps, my internet got disconnected and they cant reconnect it until 4th Aug so I am having to access at our library so I wont be around much until then. make the most of it! lol

Hi Marsha,
I've thought often of this over the years. My turn to begin transition is very near now and I've wondered how I would handle this issue. My first thoughts were to move elsewhere. Time to time I still consider it and perhaps I will. Very likely it won't even be necessary. Most people I know are gone from where I live, other than my wife's friends and acquaintances. I've spent a considerable amount of time away from home, especially during the last six years. As such, there aren't enough friends left here for me to concern myself with during the transition.
I can understand how others would feel about leaving and starting over somewhere else. Fifteen or so years ago I would have seriously considered the same. We would all like to be viewed and addressed as females. When you're surrounded by friends and acquaintances, that could be difficult and there will be the tendency for some to address you as "he", "him", "Mr.", etc., especially in mixed company. Relocating to a new city for a fresh start may be easier. Of course, as Lucy indicated, someone will discover the "old" you just by running a credit check for an apartment, home, new car, or even to open a new banking account. Some of that stealth will be lost. Perhaps not enough though to make a significant difference.

There have been so many great posts here and in other forum threads recently that have really got me thinking. I'm starting to think the biggest reason why anyone would consider going stealth and moving is because while transitioning they were negatively accepted by family, friends and or coworkers.

I think the key here is not the people who don't accept you, but instead the key is the transition itself. What I mean about transition itself is the period where physical changes are actually happening and wardrobe changes occur. I think most have heard the saying "Too much change at once is bad for anyone." Don't forget your change is also causing change to others and they have to also adjust their lives. So everyday something new happens, facial hair removal, maybe facial surgery, just outward appearance, others have to adjust.

This has always been my argument about the Harry Benjamin SOC or now WPATH SOC. The SOC guidelines require we start living fulltime within 90 days of starting HRT. That means we have to "be in your face" with transition right in front of everyone in our lives. I believe this simple requirement has caused considerable harm to those transitioning over the years, causing loss of families, friends and employment. And so what if there are laws protecting your job, do you seriously want to work somewhere that nobody likes you?

I consider myself fortunate, very fortunate. I have my family, friends and the customers for my business intact. I did things differently than many. I literally transitioned right in front of everyone without them knowing for several years. People don't pick up on gradual changes nearly as fast as if you tell them things are changing. So when it came time for me to go fulltime I had people saying to me we always thought you were more feminine or even figuring me out before I could say anything. They have only had to deal with one change. Instead of being reminded constantly you were once a male and now changing to a female, they already see the female and have to work at remembering the male. Maybe that seems a stretch, but that is what worked for me.

Watch how girls here talk about how others have accepted them, often by all their friends that they hangout with. Something that often comes up is others have told them they always thought they were feminine so it all makes sense. I think that is what it is all about, making sense. If you lived or tried to live a macho guy life, I believe you are going to have a more difficult time with others accepting you. That just is too much for most people to comprehend. So by softening your behavior, others have one less adjustment and have time to accept you.

Transitioning is not all about starting HRT to grow boobs. HRT will not make you a woman. HRT is only one of the aids to bring your outer body inline with your inner side. Spend time letting others see your feminine side, without that nobody will see you as a woman no matter where you live. Transition is about others seeing your inner side and treating you accordingly. Transition is not all about changing your body. And if others see your inner side and treat you accordingly, do you really think going stealth has to be considered? I don't.

Hugs and best wishes to everyone,
Marsha

Okay listen… I’m not trans and am not qualified to speak from any kind of personal experience. But, I have a number of trans friends, have seen a couple of trans ladies as GFs at one point (one of whom I still bear strong feelings for although I’ve been with a GG for around a year). …let’s just say that even as an outsider I do ‘get it’ or at least I like to believe that I do. That said, please take the followinbg for what it's worth.

Coming from a spiritual perspective rather than a trans-specific one…

There is something very profound and important—something spiritual--about heimat (MoHG “homeland”) that cannot be replaced in any other way. The smell of one’s hometown, the familiar faces, the activities that went on there and perhaps still do…

To move to another place where one is known by no one, the traditions are different, the laws are different… I’ve lived in 4 different states and fully understand the whole cultural thing about starting over.

I’m not going to suggest that one cannot find satisfaction in a new place with their lives filled with new people. HOWEVER there is something very important that is lost by rejecting everything that one once was, everyone once knew, and every place one had previously experienced. Is it really fair to you to rob yourself of this?

The trans journey is often a tough one. It’s hard enough as it is without disposing of all that was once important to you. A trans-woman (or man) goes through so many things just to be honest with herself that the majority of people don’t have to undergo. Does it make sense to not share that honesty with the important people in one’s life? How honest is that?
Yes, there are those who will have a HUGE problem trying to figure out how trasgenderism fits into your life. On the other hand, how many people—some of whom will be the last you expect—will offer not only understanding but even support?

As has already been pointed out, most are not “passable” and perhaps “passing” isn’t even the real question. Acceptance, support and people who really love you for being you are the important ones to find. I firmly believe that one can find these things without having to make the sacrifices required of living stealth.

There’s an old saying: “Why throw out the baby with the bathwater”?

This is one of the most thoughtful and insightful threads I have read on any board about any subject. Congratulations to all who participated. I am so glad I got to read it.

I played football in high school [not much and not to good but I did it]. Was in the military. Became a powerlifter for about 20 years off and on. I tried to do the "male" thing for years and I died inside as a result. No need to elaborate as I am sure we have all gone through similar things. Anyone I told about me being transexual has left me. My family never speaks to me except my dad who has no clue what it is that I am and thinks TS are all homosexuals and of course his "son" can never be a homosexual.

I have no friends anymore except my wife. I have no family anymore either [5 brothers and 2 sisters].
For me stealth is just a given LOL. No one I use to know cares or gives a sheeeet.

Quite simply, I tried to transition in the early 80's and the doctors considered me a disease to be cured. I was beaten up and one day said the heck with it and stopped it all.

A few months ago I found out things had changed [via the internet]. Not much, but at least we are no longer a disease.

For me the idea of stealth is a given and I will definitely be doing such. My face will never been seen online or any place else in reference to me being TS.
As a matter of fact. I own 99% of all pictures ever taken of me and once I go full time I plan to destroy all references to me male past. I hate this body and have no desire to have anything to do with it any more then I absolutely have to.

As to whether one goes "stealth" or not I think is a highly personal and individual decision that only the person doing it can make.
I have memories of being outed [there was no internet or support groups etc as there are now to go to for information to how to "pass" etc]. And they are not pleasant at all.

So for me stealth is a given. As for anyone else, I feel it is a personal choice and I judge no one for the choice they make.
I hope this helps someone, not sure if it will or not though.


Stephenie

Stephenie, as you say, going stealth is a personal thing. Personally I can't imagine going on with life without the people I know. You are more fortunate now that there are support sites such as TW available for the support you will need. Transition on your own is lonely and I know that firsthand. The people at TW saved my life and bought me time for my family to better understand and eventually accept what was going on with me. Transition is something that takes years and that will need to be done in front of people who will know your past. To go stealth assumes you will go somewhere nobody knows you after you transition. I think it is way too early for you to make a decision to go stealth. Many of us are near 100% passable at first glance, however given more opportunity most of us can and will be read. Then what? Move again?

Best wishes,
Marsha

Marsha hi
I was mostly commenting on my family and what happened about 35 years ago and how they threw me away. My friends left me about 25 years ago when they found out I was serious about becoming a woman. Weird in that about the same time I stopped trying because of the doctors etc etc.

Now I am trying again and my wife is supportive. My family hasn't spoken to me in decades and the few friends I do have , well I have no idea what they will do. As for support now a days I think the internet is a fantastic place as is places like this as well. If I had had places like this decades ago I think I could have persevered. Who knows.

As for stealth. I have no intention of wearing a sandwich board saying "I am TS like it or lump it". I also see no reason whatsoever that anyone else needs to know either.
I have no intention of saying to someone I am TS. To me all it means is that I am a woman that had a horrible birth defect that has been corrected [or will be one day].

No one with a corrected birth defect goes around telling everyone they are a birth defect. They just get on with life. So for me stealth is mostly just getting on with life.


Not sure if it does but I hope that clears things up Marsha


Stephenie

Marsha, it's always a tricky one isn't it? I think the reality for me, if it were to happen, was that going stealth just wouldn't be a realistic option as my life is at the moment. I think it is difficult for those who may have known us for 10 - 20 years to see us as female, but I believe that's balanced by those that do. The issue of using the wrong pronoun is easily corrected and isn't something to get upset about, not in the long run, as it is never meant as an insult but is just a mistake. One that happens to GG's as well, (I've seen it more than once).

The other part of me is against stealth simply because I am proud of who i am, so why would I want to hide my past? It's a hell of a tough road to take as we know so why pretend it didnt' happen. Just my opinion of course and as I'm rather bolsy and not the type to shy away, I appreciate that it would not be the right choice for others.

I guess there's is that fact that sometimes the choice is made for you as well. If your current situation is not good, then a fresh start by going stealth may very well be the right choice. I don't think I would really know for sure until I was in that position.

Nikki

for me going stealth meant moving to a new town where I can shops and socialise without the crap of being seen as that p/q/f/bif etc...makes life so much better.
i found it really annoying that after two ful years of transition I was still seen as him etc.

The idea of leaving the place that I love and disowning all my friends, and possibly avoiding my family in public is slightly abhorrent to me.
I do not believe that our friends will never see us as female, but I suspect that depends on your friends. Of course, they will always remember us as male, is that such a bad thing? I think this is the real problem that some girls have with friends who know their past; they simply don’t want to be remembered as male.
My friends, without exception, never, ever use male pronouns, never ever treat me any differently to how they would any other female. Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe you need to have a quiet chat with your friends.
Being stealth means that no-one has any idea you are trans, so unless you are entirely certain you pas completely, all the time, in any situation, then there is nothing to think about. You will be no better off in a town where no-one knows you than one where everyone knows you. Perhaps worse off, friends and allies are no bad thing, for anyone.
I’d live stealth if I could, but I would never lose all my friends and give up everything I have here just to achieve it. The question is academic because I don’t pass all the time.
Do you?
xx

I think it's a very tiny percentage of girls who pass completly 100% and 100% of the time. It's very hard to get absolutely everything right, including the voice and the reality is, most of don't get there. It doesn't matter though, it's not about passing, it's about living your life as you see fit and with the minimum about of agravation, and that holds true whether you are TG or not.

Nikki

I'm unlikely to ever pass without notice. That does make me a bit sad and regretful of the era I grew up in, before it was possible to understand what I was and do something about it while it was still possible for me to pass. Of course I would like that. I've seen my genes feminized and I would have made a cute girl if action had been available in time. I'm still hunting for the Pink Button to push, like so many of us. Although I would far prefer to be a girl than a guy, It seems very likely (but not certain) that I am not quite TS, but two-spirit, and my only issue is whether to live openly so or hide it from most.. So for me, living as who I am would deny stealth as a lifestyle option. It will make it obvious that I am "specially gendered".

There are two things I have gained. Self-acceptance and friendship. It has been some time since I reached the point where I would give up TW and my friends and acquaintances here for those who know me only as "him". I would fear losing you all far more than losing my pre-TW friends, who I spend far, far less time with. It will be up to them to decide if they continue to value my friendship. I'm already where I would not deny being TG if asked. I once, long ago, decided I would rather die than be bullied any more. Now I would rather die than deny myself the rest of the life that I mostly missed out on. So I have to move Out. I started this new path during L.A. Pride. It was NOT a fun day. It was just a normal day, alone in a crowd. No, truthfully, it was a kind of crappy day. I ended up with a sore toe and a sunburn. What I wore made little difference after the first 15 minutes in public. In fact, I would have gotten more attention en homme than I did en femme. I was just Wendy, another person in the crowd., in the heat, in the transportation-challenged streets of Hollywood-West Hollywood. . This was kind of amazing. So stealth is out for some very practical and some very unalterable reasons. I'm an In-betweenie, perhaps a Tom-Boy.

However, there is one overwhelming reason that would prevent me from living my life Stealthy. I did that for many, many years. I never want to live with that fear of discovery again. The time since I decided if I got Outed by accident I'd just deal with it has been so much more peaceful for me. I could not imagine, transitioning, having a family and home and living in constant fear of being exposed. Never again! For those of you who wish it, I understand. I give hope that you are granted the life you pursue and never set off a buried landmine that will expose your history. I won't walk that minefield ever again. My addition of the third quote below is a reflection of that decision.

Game theory demonstrates that the same payoff can hold different values for different people. We must each write in the number that reflects the value of our choice-payoff combination to ourselves.

“it's not about passing…”
I’m assuming Nikki isn’t specifically referring to stealth here, because if stealth isn’t about passing then I am obviously misunderstanding the definition of stealth.
And here we are back to definitions again. It’s fine if you see stealth as being “this”, or “not quite that”, I wouldn’t argue with you. But my opinion…
I kind of think the definition of “stealth” is like that of “fulltime”, in as much as - it’s an all or nothing type of thing. You are either fulltime or not, if you are ever in drab, ever go into male mode at all, you aren’t fulltime; there is no such thing as “mostly fulltime”. Similarly with “stealth”: “I’m stealth apart from the people who know about me…” isn’t quite stealth to me, therefore it’s not at all. It doesn’t matter who knows or who cares, or even who is suspicious. As far as everyone is concerned – you were born female and no-one would have any reason to question that. These types are indeed a tiny percentage, and good for them.

“Do you think that blob on the radar is a stealth plane?"
“Could be, should we shoot it down just in case?”
A stealth plane wouldn’t even be on the radar.

Confide in just one person and you lose your stealth status.
Even total passability is no guarantee to maintaining stealth; your credit report, easily accessible to many people, will show all past names you have been known by, and of course the gender that goes with them. Inland Revenue will always know, NHS will always know, most of your future employers will find out. Some records are seemingly indestructible.
If stealth really mattered to me, I’d live with a dark cloud over me all the time.
I’d rather be Little Miss Sunshine.
xx

you pass so well the women are jealous of you (apart from the lesbians who desire you) and the men give you that stare cos they find you attractive and wish to let you know they see you as prey in the mating game.
Your Mums constant use of your former name shows she hopes that one day you will snap out of it...

I consider my self to have passed if I can walk past a group of people and get nothing but a cursory glance.

I don't think being outed is a fearful thing but more of an annoyance that the outer is so small minded. And with my work and lifestyle I don't slavishly follow the same route at the same time as thousands of others so I work on the theory that if I am outed it will either be an insignificant thing to ignore or if it is serious I can pull out my phone and call the police as here in the UK we have really good Hate Crime laws.

There was a girl here that posted a thread on this same topic a couple of years ago.
All she wanted to be was a woman. She was post op, young , & good looking. But she felt she would never realy be seen as a woman as long as people thought of her as that TS girl. So for her to fully complete her transformation she wanted to be where people didn't see the TS but the woman. She just wanted a clean start.
I moved for a very simular reason. I was a drug addict & everyone knew it. After I got clean I couldn't get rid of being thought of as an addict. So I moved to be able to start over.
The same with her.

I think it's more about who are you today. A woman or a post-op TS.

To date, I don't think any woman I have met has had an issue with TG, curiousity yes, that's understandable, but there is no malice involved. Men on the other hand just can't or won't understand it. I think it's as Chrisine says, they just can't get their heads round someone wanting to get rid of their penis. they have no idea of the concept at all so typically of them, what they don't understand, they attack.

Karen - good analogy. I can see why that would have been the right move for you.

Since I tend to move around with work anyway, being in one place isn't a particular issue so I would carry on as normal. I suppose to some degree that is stealthy since I'm not in the same town I was 10 years ago for example but I still go back there to see old friends so whatever works for you really.

Julie - I think the pronouns etc are deliberate, at least it sounds that way to me. You were once male therefore you are still thought of as that. It's totally wrong and shouldn't be allowed. I'm pretty sure in the UK you could be prosecuted for that, (emotional harrassment or something similar), I have seen very good Tgirls being refered to as 'you know it's a bloke though?' I mean, c'mon, does she look like a guy????

Men..........is it any wonder we don't want to be one anymore?

Nikki

Marsha, I think you are right about gradual changes going unnoticed or unremarked. Recently, one of my closest friends spent the day with me and suddenly exclaimed, "You are wearing earrrings!" I stopped, looked at him with a puzzled expression, and said "I've had earrings for years. You just noticed?" He had just noticed.

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If you move to maintain stealth you lose one important asset. Your community history. People will take 10-20 years to learn what you are like as a person. The years you lived before become non-existent. Do you really want to lose the assurance to everyone that you are an OK person. Even if you are not Outed in your Stealth life elsewhere, trust will have to be rebuilt over time. I spent 9 years in a new home as a child and was never accepted as a local. My grandparents had not lived there. Think about what you will give up. For me, this is easy. I grew up doing it over and over. It may be very difficult if you have not done it before.