Reply to Rose from Excluded from family

Rose said “Natalie, you're right about the sneezing and coughing it does sound so male but as I heven't been outed for it perhaps its just a bit of neuroticism on our behalf...

now we need a new thread: how to feminise coughs and sneezes...”

Rose you are (always) so right.

neuroticism: a mental or personality disturbance not attributable to any known neurological or organic dysfunction

When I need to sneeze or cough when I go shopping in huge department stores I really gets paranoid and sort of scared and I often hurry up to find a quiet corner where there is nobody for then to move quickly away like "it was not me" sort of and I do feel really bad about it. Like this weekend I went to Montbéliard shopping complex and because I suffer from allergy my nose got suddenly bad and even blowing my nose sounds so male and I felt so hopeless, nose dripping and people everywhere. I know the answer is to not do shopping on Saturdays when it's full of people but then again I also know I should be able to do the same things I did as male and my transitioning should not effect the way I live.

I do hope I can overcome this one day because it's really effecting me but what can I do? My problem is just that a "nice" girl should not sound like a male but still my voice is also a problem even though I often talk about it but then people says "it does not sound too bad" but then I know it's bad because "not too bad" is still too bad.

xxx Natalie

Partner Rose you made me smile with the last comment because I'm sure some newcomers thinks it's all "dances on roses" haha.

One thing I know for sure is that look at the way males are eating... they are shuffling the food down and while I was male I did not take a notice of it but NOW?? It reminds me of people in a hurry even though they've got plenty of time. So the way you eat your food is also important and I know it must be lady like. I know I eat "lady like" and when I eat with males I so often think of the way they eat and from time to time I also see females eating as males.

Now if I learned how to eat "lady like" why can't I learn to sneeze or cough "lady like"? I think because my lung capacity is just to "huge" and I must learn not to give it full power. Did you know that when you sneeze the speed is about 150 km/hour (and I think I did read that for females it's "only" 80 km/hour) and it travels only 2-3 meters? It's also impossible to sneeze with your eyes open and when you sneeze your hart stops.

Ohhh it's lunch so I must go eat!!!

xxx Natalie

Men generally just let loose with a big cough or sneeze when it happens. Trying to suppress it just seems to make it worse, usually. What I do when I feel a cough coming on, is to immediately purposely cough lightly, and trying to soften it as much as possible. A light cough alleviates the big one coming, and enables me to make a second or third feminine cough to finish up the "threat"... A sneeze is a little more difficult, but I have been able to pull that off, too. Make sure that your sneeze involves the nasal passages, and whatever is needed in the throat, but try not to let the vocal cords get involved at all.
Cover cough or sneeze with a hanky or kleenex, also.... That helps in appearance, as well as in sound and hygiene.

Karin

Excuse me, does any one ever truly notice and assign gender to a sneeze or cough? Probably just TG girls because some of you are so wrapped up in trying to get every detail down, but I doubt anyone else gives a rip. And for that matter passing is about confidence, not performing every menial task just right. What I have noticed is the more you try to do something, the more it looks like you are trying to do something and the less natural it appears. Gesundheit!
Hugs,
Marsha

Thankyou Karin. I have tried to do as you said by letting it our bit by bit but then it sometimes just get more irritated and then I NEED to make a louder and powerful one to really make it stop. The sneeze I can sometimes stop by bulling air inn bit by bit and keep the breath at the last one and wait to see if it's over but I know then if I have to close my eyes then it will come for sure (sooner or later)

Marsha being a female is to take care of every small detail, as it's the small details that count. You know that mirror is the girls best friend? (at least it is for me) This is because the mirror is spotting all the details that needs to be take care of and the same counts for your behaviour or look at FFS, it's the small corrections they makes that makes you look female, some is so small (and expensive) that you think it does not count but once it's done you see the huge overall difference it makes.

So while for you it's OK to cough and sneeze as a male for me and perhaps others it's a problem because as I said I would never cough or sneeze with people around me. I guess it's just the lady I am.

xxx Natalie

Cristine I've heard that if you try to hold back sneezing you might get a reverse effect and it goes out behind which is worse as the smell goes with it haha but about the sleeve you're spot on or even using your pointing finger?

xxx Natalie

A sneeze and a cough is the bodies mechanism to deal with a problem, if you dont allow your body to act naturally in dealing with that problem, like clearing the sinuses or airways then you are denying your body the chance to function healthly.

A situation could arise where actually taking steps to cover up the maleness of the cough or sneeze could be the instigator to reveal ones trans identity.

Is it wise to be careful not to become obsessed with passing? Isnt it the feeling of gender conflict that the term "gender dsyphoria" describes? To this, I have spent my efforts in living my life so that my gender dsyphoria becomes nullified or pacified. I would suggest that being obsessed with how one passes or sounds is actually fuelling the conflict and causing more misery than is necessary.

Although I love to take care and time in attention to detail with my appearance, wouldnt trying to fool everyone of my trans identity be a sign that I am ashamed to be trans? I apreciate my answers and conclusions may not be the same as everyone but I am currently living full time in my chosen gender whilst waiting to start hormones and receive physical adjustments, so I have had to come to terms with the fact that it is obvious to everyone I am trans. My experience with this has been extremely positive and in the last 6 months I have only had to explain to 1 group of young lads that they needed to respect the liberties of everyone in a free and equal society.

Natalie I have to disagree with you regarding obsessing about details is what makes a female. I think a good way to look at it is there are actors that act the part and there are actors that become the part. Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean is a great example of someone who becomes the part, he just looks right. But David Carusso on CSI Miami is simply put, an actor. Not to say either is bad, some people prefer one style over the other. Here in the states we have Broadway which many actors find to be their home, whereas others prefer film.

I'm just saying I agree with what Penny added, obsessing leads to not behaving natural. And just as there are tall and short, fat and thin, young and old, high pitched and deep voiced women, there are noisy coughers and sneezers. We often talk to those in the closet about being yourself. Obsessing over every detail is a sign of trying to be someone else, not yourself. I am a firm believer that if you look like you belong, you belong and nobody notices you. If you look like you are trying to belong, EVERYBODY notices you are trying to belong. If you are one who likes to obsess, have at it. I just want you to know I rank it right up there with OCD which is different than GID. Maybe since you don't have your ID yet, we can call you Monk. For that matter, think about it, Monk is exactly how you appear to others.

Hugs,
Marsha

Cris, do you pee your pants when you laugh? LOL
Big Hugs, oops, better not, might squeeze more out
Marsha

Rose, you are right about Monk the old TV show and also right that no apology will be forthcoming. Simply put, obsessive behavior is going to do more to out you then help you fit in. My opinion of course. Besides, I'm not saying you won't feel good about yourself, just that you may be left wondering what it is others see that makes you standout.
Hugs,
Marsha

Rose, Andrea James has lots of good ideas but she also has plenty that many gals don't agree with. I support anyone actually who is willing to voice their own opinion. Too often you find those who hide behind other peoples opinions, too afraid to voice their own.

Based on the statement about not worrying about being outed you are jumping to all sorts of conclusions. First I'm guessing you are implying that those of us who say "who cares if we are read" are not truly transsexual based on what Andrea says. Number one, she is not the queen of all TS's, and I'll bet you she would also say that is not always the case especially now. You are working off old information. Because society is becoming more understanding and tolerant of transgender issues there is less reason to hide it. Next is there is a significant group of TS's that feel it is time for society to know what true transsexuals are instead of letting them conjure up baseless perverted stereotypes. So if you want to continue hiding , feel free to stay in the closet and practice your sneezes. The rest of us are going to be out trying to make something of our lives. Also don't jump to conclusions that we like being outed, all I'm saying is if I am outed I have no problem talking to people about my situation, I have no need to run back to my closet and practice sneezing.

Hugs,
Marsha

OMG, this is my 1000th post, needless to say I express my opinions. To continue on from my last post I was saying society is changing in understanding and tolerating us. Therefore it makes no sense to continue to hide hoping you can perfect YOUR idea of a woman's behavior. I mentioned it earlier that the tenured gals here tend to tell new gals to be themselves. So honestly who are you trying to pretend to be if you are constantly practicing YOUR idea of a woman's behavior. Based on the theory we have to perfectly emulate women, can't it then be said if you don't already have that behavior, then maybe you are not TS in the first place? Obviously this is taking things to the extremes and that is the point I have been trying to make, it is extreme to try to be perfect. Once again, women come in all sizes and shapes, and they make all kinds of noises. You are not unique.
Hugs,
Marsha

My goodness, what has happened here?
A perfectly innocent question about how to make one's coughs and sneezes a little more feminine has turned into a full-blown debate over whether transsexuals should even try to pass! If we are called "obsessive" for wanting to have our sneezes and coughs sound feminine, what about our voices when we speak? ..Or further, why should we use breast forms if we do not have natural breasts? ...or why should we wear wigs if our hair is short and scalps balding?
I admire those transwomen who can go out as themselves wearing no makeup, and androgynous clothing, and feel like they are women, not caring whether they pass or not. But many here on trannyweb are as I am: part-time women, who do our best to pass as gg's as well as we can. Can we not give hints on deporting oneself without being criticized for trying?
Natalie, if you sneeze like a foghorn, it is not "obsessing" to want to be less obvious about it. If you cough like a roaring lion, it is ok to want to tame it down to a kitten. All the light-hearted responses with good humor about "just let it go, it's hopeless!" are appreciated, too.... ...We are friends and family here, and joking is part of that. Let's just not lose sight of our purpose here, though, at trannyweb. Some of us are, and should be, activists for transgender acceptance. Some of us, though, also, are just "girls who want to get by".

Cheers to all...
Karin

I agree with a lot that Karen has to say. The point I was trying to make was there reaches a point that in my opinion someone begins to obsess with behavior that otherwise would go unnoticed. Others have also made the point that masking some behaviors could potentially draw more attention than the behavior itself. Gals should feel free to try to modify their behaviors all they want and not be questioned about their authenticity. I don't see a sneeze that lasts 2 seconds as an issue. In a matter of moments it will be long forgotten.
Hugs,
Marsha

Karen, I hope no one is being critisised. After all, we live in a society where we are free to define ourselves. Isnt it the bigots who judge people who are different to them that cause the majority of problems? It gets a bit tiresum that some people need to be reminded that everyones opinion is valid and should be respected.

Marsha so delicately reiterated the point I was expressing. Theres definately a diference between attension to detail and an unhealthy obsession. When I have a bodily function to perform the only obsessing I do is if I have to clear something up afterwards!! ewww! lol

the problem with bodily functions, is not the appearance to others, but a reminder to ourselves of our own predicument.

ps I'm really looking forward to the "bless hitler" thread, because after the genecide, meglamania and the death of over 80 million people... he meant well, bless him.

Instead of shutting yourself up in the closet with all these handbooks and websites dealing with body language,how men/women move,cough,sneeze,belch etc etc ,-a lot of which seems to be just regurgitating old,well-worn cliches-get out to the park,beach,shopping centre(Mall for you in North America),favourite street cafe etc etc and just observe...............the differences between the sources mentioned above and what actually happens in real life may surprise you.There is such a thing as trying too hard,and there's nothing like trying too hard for blowing your cover!


Lynn

I think I perfected my sneezing technique. I was on a busy bus and had to stand. I sneezed and then weeed myself and at the next stop half the people got off and I had plenty of room to sit down.

Will, I must agree with some of the others as to where this thread has gone. We are obsessed with being the perfect women....but there is none.( but it's OK to try) Go out, be yourself, the world is not what it used to be....people are getting used to us...now there was a time, we could end up in a grave situation, and that is just not the case anymore, so feel blessed.....NOW...I am waiting for this Hitler thread!!! Gorring or Himmer would do fine also.
Huggs ..Tammy

What the heck, might as well put in my two cents as well.

Because of my size and shape, I find that the more things about me that are fem, kinda make up for the things that are not. Like being 51% fem makes up for the 49% non-fem. Just my opinion.
As for the laughing and sneezing etc. I found that practicing the laugh by tightening my throat fast and going falsetto works for me. It is now normal for me to do now.
The sneeze is a bit harder to do, but what i did was to practice the "kitten" type sneeze. Believe it or not it works. Things that as a man I sneeze once but as a woman I may need to sneeze 2 or 3 times is all.

The coughing however is another thing. Because I still smoke cigs [I know I know] I find it hard to not do a full head on gale force cough that makes someones hair move.

Anyhow, i found that practicing the laugh [or giggle] and sneezing has worked for me so far.

Hope this actually helps someone out


Stephenie

Has Natalie (who started this thread) simply disappeared? No photo, no new posts. I enjoyed her posts, and her photo was so pretty.

Just curious.

I disgree that gender is binary, I believe male and female are each end of the spectrum but a lot of people, (not just the transgendered either), live somewhere in between.

Nikki

Hi Partner Natalie..
I have to say there is a definite difference between male and female coughs and sneezes ..loudness, harshness, power? So its just one ot the things we have to watch for. Shouldn't have to of course but if society will hear us do it then say 'thats a transperson!' then what can we do but try to hide it?

I can do that trick of somehow stopping a sneeze coming out..dunno what it is except its in the back of my throat so its very rare I actually sneeze. I haven't noticed any ill effects from bottling a sneeze up inside so until I rupture my lungs or other air tubes with holding sneezes is I'll keep doing it.

Same for coughs, men seem quite uninhibited about doing really deep hard coughs while women only do that in private and even then a woman cough will be more of a whoop than a grunt...hard to describe but its immediately apparent if a cough is male or female...differences in throats/air tubes etc?

We have to cough or sneeze if our airtubes are itching so we just have to hope we can do it discreetly.

Same with blowing dripping noses with colds or hayfever or in my case on cold days...do we do it ladylike with a gentle wipe or do a big male cleaning out?

LOL.. Did we all think that changing sex was only buying pretty knickers and high heels?

I fail to see where Monk comes from unless its that awful yank soap from years ago...I hardly think that Natalie's taking a little care of remaining happily unouted can be compared with a man with disgusting nasal conditions and OCD...I think an apology is on order...but won't be forthcoming.
Incidentally andrea on tsroadmap has an interesting theory about poeple who do not worry about being outed are not really transsexual...