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Phoenix Project!

  • Traci, first off, hugs. I think Lucy and I often agree on the hormone issue except that I firmly believe a doctor needs to be involved whenever possible. That is my biggest concern with those taking herbals, and that they are doing so to avoid the doctors. Like Lucy I also believe that the herbals offer some feminizing ability, but I question the amount required to make significant changes. I know last time I went through the website forums for evanesce I read numerous posts describing problems. All I can say is make yourself aware of the potential issues related to these products so you can identify a problem quickly should it arise.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
      October 30, 2009 10:15 PM GMT
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  • Thnx Joanne...that is exactly the feedback I am looking for...

    Traci
    <p>Traci</p>
      October 30, 2009 9:35 PM GMT
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  • I tried the products for 18 months (6 six years ago) and there was little feminization. The feminol did lower the T however and I continued to use it with the patches until being told the two products do not mix..
    <p>ooxxoo</p>
      October 30, 2009 8:57 PM GMT
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  • Look, I'm not trying to create a flaming war of words in here with this post...and I do appreciate your comments, especially as you and Marsha and others have fully transitioned and are experienced in the process ,etc...
    First, don't question my intent on going fulltime and transitioning, although I don't think that was actually stated...

    Second...that said, Lucy, I believe you said that these items will probably work to some degree...cool...they most definitely will based on what I've learned...maybe NOT as powerful as prescribed estrogen, but I am OK with that too...

    Third...I have approached principals of company as well as Md's about validity of your counter points to my original posts to give them the opportunity to share or disclose their position. They will state it better than I possibly could....if they fail to respond, then that will be a red flag to me....

    I have not begun taking anything and will not until the dust is settled and I am satisfied with information provided, not only from the girls in here (and I truly appreciate it, even the criticisms) but from outside medical resources as well as the Phoenix Project itself.

    Lucy, we don't always see eye to eye, nor particularly get along, but I'll attribute that to you and I being very, very similar in temperment and personality...like two sisters...but I am not so vain as to not recognize your valuable input to this site and the help and support you've given to many. Same with you Marsha...so rather than immaturely lash back at you, I am extended my hand in hopes that this conversation will continue and that it WILL prove to be a valuable resource for others as they too take that final step to womanhood...if indeed this organization proves to be a scam like so many others, then we've done a real good thing in alerting and warning girls...

    Peace

    Traci
    <p>Traci</p>
      October 30, 2009 7:06 PM GMT
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  • Moderator
    1638 1‚ 0
    "Estrogen is estrogen...”
    It is, but phyto-estrogen is not; it is a form of estrogen; something similar to estrogen.

    “They are treated as food in your body as opposed to something that needs to be discharged/cleansed via kidney and liver eliminating the stress on those organs.”
    This claim on their website is nonsense. Anything that goes into your mouth will soon become acquainted with the liver. Everything that goes into your mouth is treated as food, some of which is more toxic than other. This product will be no less toxic than bio-identical estrogen taken orally.

    “You can control the pace of your transition unlike hormones and nothing is wasted as the body/cells use what it needs to perform their tasks.”
    You can no more control the pace of your transition with this product than with any other product; pace of transition is mainly determined by your genetics. Phyto-estrogenic hormone regimes are notoriously lees effective than FDA approved ones, but not necessarily slower. And the last part of that sentence about the body/cells using what they need is more nonsense.

    “No, they are not FDA approved...but they have also been recommended by respected medical people in the field who have nothing to gain by their recommendation.”
    I suspect they have been recommended specifically for use by natal females (eg for menopausal symptons), I doubt there are many genuine medical practitioners out there who would put their head on the block and claim that these products will cause effective feminisation in TS patients, and even less likely claim that these products are actually better than human estrogen.

    I don’t doubt that this product will have some effect. I don’t believe though that it is better, safer, or in any way preferable to bio-identical estrogen.
    xx
    <p><span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: medium; color: #000080;">"Stop aspiring to be other people and start being you."</span></p> <p>Gok Wan</p>
      October 30, 2009 2:16 AM GMT
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  • Moderator
    1638 1‚ 0
    If you want to feminise your body why don’t you take human estrogen? It has worked just fine for half the population of the human race since time immemorial.
    There are some strongly misleading claims on this website about so-called “drug hormones”. They cite Premarin as an example. Don’t take Premarin.
    They don’t specifically mention readily, and in most countries legally available bio-identical hormones, which can be bought from Inhouse Pharmacy at a fraction of the cost of any other alternative “magic pill” (their words) on the market.
    Bio-identical hormones are the same as human hormones, they do not have the same risks and side-effects of other synthetic hormones, or for that matter, of “herbal hormones”. They are an extremely safe and time-tested method of feminising the body.
    It works for natal females, why take anything else? Why spend a fortune on magic pills? Why are so many people so eager to believe the marketing hype that a certain magic pill is better than the wondrous chemical made in the human body that is called…
    Estrogen.
    Forget the phyto/xeno/ethinyl/equine/herbal/syntho/quacko prefixes.
    Human bodies are feminised by estrogen. There is no better product.
    xx
    <p><span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: medium; color: #000080;">"Stop aspiring to be other people and start being you."</span></p> <p>Gok Wan</p>
      October 30, 2009 1:50 AM GMT
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  • All good points, but what is very significant here that hasn't been brought up is:

    Hormones (HRT) are derived from the same herbs as these products. Estrogen is estrogen....

    They are treated as food in your body as opposed to something that needs to be discharged/cleansed via kidney and liver eliminating the stress on those organs.

    You can control the pace of your transition unlike hormones and nothing is wasted as the body/cells use what it needs to perform their tasks.

    No, they are not FDA approved...but they have also been recommended by respected medical people in the field who have nothing to gain by their recommendation.

    I have or can obtain legal prescriptions for hormones, but after 7 months of due diligence in TW and other sources, for me, the risk at my age of stressing out kidneys and liver is not one worth taking. The cost is insignificant on a monthly basis (to me) and when weighed versus risks, just feel it's a safer alternative to hormones. My goal is NOT to grow bigger boobs but to drive out testosterone and allow genetics to take over with the physical changes whatever they may be. If my breasts grow, cool! I, like many here, have been living in the wrong body and have been stifled by the effects of male hormones...I welcome the changes....

    Any and all comments will be appreciated...

    Thnx!

    Traci

    <p>Traci</p>
      October 30, 2009 1:21 AM GMT
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  • I won't hide the fact that I am strongly against herbals because of the lack of documentation both on evidence they do what they say and what are safe effective dosages. I also question why someone who believes strongly enough that they need to go on HRT, would choose such unproven chemicals to put in their bodies. If you can find a doctor who treats transsexuals and recommends to his/her patients that they take herbals, then I might change my opinion. Let me qualify that with a doctor that doesn't make money selling herbals.

    "The Evanesce formulation performs these two crucial tasks:
    Evanesce has the strongest, safest, testosterone blockers you can legally get without a prescription,
    and
    Evanesce has significant estrogen resources, to enable the feminizing processes. "


    I contend if you care enough about yourself to want to feminize, then get a prescription. And what does "significant estrogen resources" mean?

    Besides the "what is this stuff?" look at the cost. The hawkers of Evanesce recommend 6 tablets daily at a cost of $33 plus shipping for 30 days worth. I contend if you feel strong enough you need to be on HRT then you should be able to find a doctor to prescribe you real hormones. Estradiol and spironolactone can be had for under $20 for a months supply at Walmart or most other pharmacies in the U.S., and that is with no insurance.

    Hugs,
    Marsha
      October 30, 2009 1:01 AM GMT
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  • Traci

    I have seen the ads for this before, I don't believe everything I read though. However if you are going to give it a go I would be interested to hear your results.

    Jeri
    Jeri Elaine “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” - Irina Dunn, 1970 Indecision is the key to flexibility. - unknown
      October 30, 2009 12:39 AM GMT
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  • Sorry...here is the active link...

    http://www.myevanesce.com
    <p>Traci</p>
      October 29, 2009 10:22 PM GMT
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  • Looking to see if anyone has had any experience with this organization regarding transitioning and and all....everything I've heard is positive, effective, but still relatively quiet in the community...

    Check out the link and please read deep into each section....awesome resource in understanding how it all works with cells, hormones, receptors, etc....

    http://www.myevanesce.com/

    I also urge y'all not to rush to judgement based on previous over the counter herbal experience...(check back with me in 30-45 days if you want to know how it is working)

    Traci
    <p>Traci</p>
      October 29, 2009 10:00 PM GMT
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