Hiya,

Someone made a comment "There’s a lot of weirdoes on the internet" and it occurred to me that there is no such thing, not one person on this planet is a weirdo. We all know the meaning of weird and that weirdo refers to someone who shows characteristics of being weird. That is what everyone is taught and it is also what the dictionaries explain. Some people even go as far as to adopt the term as a derogatory word used to abuse someone.

The truth of the matter is, not one person is a weirdo. The usage is simply used by an individual to explain a characteristic of person that they know little or nothing about and hence do not understand. I have examined a number of examples of the use of the word and in every case there has been a logical and comprehensive explanation to the apparent "weirdness" of the person that was described.

I would say that an individual who uses the term "weirdo" does so simply because of a lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo."

I would say an intelligent person, instead of determining weirdness would instead gauge someone as to whether they are breaking the law or not. To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime.

So, next time you hear someone use the term "weirdo" you will understand their level of mental ability. Maybe the dictionaries should be rewritten to reflect this.

Love
Penny
x

Hiya Penny,
I hate to sound harsh with you - but perhaps you should write your own dictionary.

In your posting you said "We all know the meaning of weird and that weirdo refers to someone who shows characteristics of being weird. That is what everyone is taught and it is also what the dictionaries explain"
**The dictionary explains what the term "Weirdo" means quite well - but I guess you need to have everything "politically correct"
It is unfortunate that so many people take the term "All people are equal" as meaning all people are the same. We all have a right to our beliefs - but that does not mean we are always correct. I have a right to think someone is acting weird and if the word I use to describe that person (in the dictionary) is weirdo...then I am correct in using that word.
Since many people are not qualified to "Diagnose" exactly why a person is acting "well outside the norm", a general description (such as weirdo) is quite appropriate. That does not mean the term should be falsely used for the sole purpose of hurting a persons feelings.

In your posting, you also said "I would say that an individual who uses the term "weirdo" does so simply because of a lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo."

*** you seem to dislike the "label" of weirdo, yet in the last quotation (above), you LABEL a person who uses the description of " weirdo" as a person "lacking a more suitable method of description" (even though the dictionary supports that description)) ....and then, you LABEL them as "unintelligent", "or just plain ignorant", and as people that "do not possess the ability to describe something in any other way other than by using the term "weirdo"" - (even though it is well defined in the dictionary)

Perhaps you should look up the word "Hypocrisy".
here is a quote from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary
"the hypocrisy of people who say one thing but do another"
"http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy"

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"The vagabond who's rapping at your door
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore."

An interesting point Penny, in my opinion, if you want to call someone a weirdo and characterize their actions as "weird", then you surly must need a point of reference? Lets call that "normal" for talking sake. mmm "normal" what the hell is that? Depending on the person that has called another person a weirdo, the response could be almost anything? e.g. ~Someone could look at me, make a judgement call and shout out "hey weirdo, look at the state of you!" to which I may reply.." if only I could arrange a crisis loan, purchase a shell suit and tuck it into my socks, ask my dad if I can borrow his sovereign rings while he is in prison, take my sisters pit-bull terrier for a walk whilst drinking fortified wine and wearing a burberry cap that I got from the local market (made in taiwan).... then I could be "normal" just like you!


I guess my point is that weird and normal have no real relevance in my opinion.

Huggs,

xAcex

I think Tracey managed to capture what I was trying to express. There is no normal or weirdo as it is a matter of relativity, there is only different. And for anyone to classify anyone as weird is only showing their failure to understand and accept that people can be different from their understanding of normal. After all, the only people who say that political correctness is getting out of hand is only said by the people who enjoy persecuting others for being different.

There is another point. Its one thing a person quietly thinking to themselves that someone is weird , in that the person challenges their perceptions, but its completely another if they go round saying someone is weird. Its ok for your perceptions to be challenged because we learn from this but to proclaim someone to be weird just because they don't fit into what we think is right is unacceptable.

I have to go along with what Doanna has stated. If you look at the posters and which side of the topic they are lining up, it again appears like a European / North America difference in the use.

Possibly the biggest thing I notice in the discussion is that there is the assumption weirdo is derogatory. Nowhere in the definition will you find the use of weirdo having to be derogatory. The Webster dictionary says simply ": a person who is extraordinarily strange or eccentric". All that means is they are noticeably different than what they are being compared to. Nothing good or bad. I don't see anywhere that the user is necessarily uneducated, uninformed, or ignorant. No one knows everything and nobody expects anyone to know everything.

Now can it be used in a derogatory, uneducated, uninformed or ignorant manner? Of course it can and I think that is maybe the point Penny is emphasizing as being a crime.

Hugs,
Marsha

yes Marsha, we had another forum here a while ago that highlighted this difference between North America and Europe. I agree with you and we tend to rely on the dictionary rather than "Newspeak", but my reply was intended to address what I felt was more of a "Politically Correct/Nanny State" reaction to freedom of speech.

In North America, a person has the right to say something that might hurt your feelings ...and unless what they said is proven to be "slander"or they are Harassing you, you can not go "crying to the State" to have that person punished... "Mommy, Jimmy hurt my feelings! I want him punished!!!".

"Big Brother", the "Thought Police", or the "EU" is not watching over US.

a little quote from 1984
"The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible."

--------------------------------------------


"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

Hi everyone. I, for one, am proud to be a 'weirdo'. All sorts of words get used in all sorts of ways, not all of them accuarate or correct, and that is part of the beauty of the English language.

When I've been called a weirdo in the past I've always taken it as a complement, that someone has taken the time to notice that I am different from the 'norm' (what ever that may be), must be a positive thing. Even when it's resulted in bruises and nose bleeds I still can't but be glad to be different.

Love and Light

Tara

I appreciate there are differences in culture between lots of different people. I can only explain my understanding and for that matter my perspective of freedom is that freedom is freedom from fear, oppression and persecution. For me fear, oppression and persecution is being abused by someone using name calling such as "weirdo." Such terms cause people feelings of hurt, lowering of self-esteem and vulnerability. People’s thoughts are in no way controlled and hence the term "thought police" is inaccurate.

If someone feels that it is acceptable to be called a weirdo and to receive bloody noses then it is their freedom to accept that. It is not their freedom to force other people to accept being called a weirdo and to accept bloody noses. People have the freedom to identify themselves as a weirdo and hence through self-determination it would be appropriate to refer to such person as a weirdo. It is not appropriate to refer to someone as a weirdo who does not identify as a weirdo. This is human rights 101.

I have only ever heard people say "political correctness is getting out of hand" by people who enjoy causing other people feelings of hurt, lowering of self esteem and vulnerability.

It seems every time I debate about human rights I get jumped on by US members quoting “Freedom of Speech!” well, I’m sorry, there’s no such thing as freedom of speech and whoever first coined the phrase is an idiot! Freedom from fear, oppression and persecution negates freedom of speech.

Doanna, I’m sorry for my retort. I try not to respond to people who appear to be harsh with me and instead I try to allow people the freedom to live with a different philosophy and free from my interference.

This thread might end up just being a repeat of the previous one about people’s freedoms that I wouldn’t be interested in repeating so I will see how this goes.

Doanna, I was agreeing with your freedom of speech angle on this topic. However I feel just like Tara added in her post, that "weirdo" is not always derogatory.

Penny, I think ideally you may be right, however we don't live in an ideal world. I see this just like the abortion issue. You have the people who view the issue as it is an woman's right to choose not to have the baby, then you have others maybe because of religious beliefs that feel it is wrong. I often wonder if those against abortions ever realize that those having abortions wish they were not in circumstances where they find themselves needing one. Maybe someday we can reach a point that abortions simply are not needed.

That might sound like a what is she talking about, but the point I am trying to make is Penny's idea about "weirdo" would be a wonderful point to be at in life. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just all get along and mind our own business. But realistically, in the here and now I don't see it working. Nor do I see laws directed at making such a thing happen, work. It has to happen through instilled morals, and that will take time.

But we all need to commend Penny for the foresight to live her life by setting a positive example for others to learn from and follow.

Hugs,
Marsha

Yes, but are you a good weirdo, or are you a bad weirdo?

Marsha,
I agree that Weirdo is not always used as a derogatory term ... and we will never live in an ideal world. What you said "Nor do I see laws directed at making such a thing happen, work." is right to the point.

Penny,
you posted...
"If someone feels that it is acceptable to be called a weirdo and to receive bloody noses then it is their freedom to accept that. It is not their freedom to force other people to accept being called a weirdo and to accept bloody noses. People have the freedom to identify themselves as a weirdo and hence through self-determination it would be appropriate to refer to such person as a weirdo. It is not appropriate to refer to someone as a weirdo who does not identify as a weirdo"

***you have deliberately associated a violent act into what I said in order to distort my point. I never inferred or condoned a violent act in anything I said. In fact, I even stated that freedom of speech did not include slander ...let alone violence. It is pretty bad when someone uses those tactics to bolster a poorly supported argument.

***first you say it is appropriate (if they like it) then you say it is not appropriate...if they don't like it. Are we to be "mind readers" as well?
Initially, in you first posting you said "To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime. "
I guess you mean it is a crime ....only if the person doesn't like the term weirdo - but it is fully appropriate if they agree with you... Since when does a criminal act depend on how a person feels about an expression at that time...what happens if a person changes there mind later? Would it not a crime then...? Would the "plaintiff" not have to pay restitution if they ever accept being called a weirdo - for any reason?

Later you posted...
"After all, the only people who say that political correctness is getting out of hand is only said by the people who enjoy persecuting others for being different. " and "I have only ever heard people say "political correctness is getting out of hand" by people who enjoy causing other people feelings of hurt, lowering of self esteem and vulnerability. "

*** so what you mean is..all people who do not "fully embrace" political correctness (and only them) are the people enjoy "persecuting others for being different" and "who enjoy causing other people feelings of hurt, lowering of self esteem and vulnerability"

Later you posted...
"It seems every time I debate about human rights I get jumped on by US members quoting “Freedom of Speech!” well, I’m sorry, there’s no such thing as freedom of speech and whoever first coined the phrase is an idiot! Freedom from fear, oppression and persecution negates freedom of speech."

*** I live in Canada

*** Freedom of Speech is only bad for those that would "take Freedom of Speech" away from others. Freedom of Speech does not cause fear, oppression, or persecution - taking Freedom of Speech away promotes these things.

@@@

so far, you have associated people who believe in Freedom of Speech as follows,
1) ignorant - "The usage is simply used by an individual to explain a characteristic of person that they know little or nothing about and hence do not understand"

2) ignorant, unintelligent, uneducated, and lacking in ability - "an individual who uses the term "weirdo" does so simply because of a lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo."

3) abusive and criminal - "I would say an intelligent person, instead of determining weirdness would instead gauge someone as to whether they are breaking the law or not. To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime. "

4) low level of mental ability - "So, next time you hear someone use the term "weirdo" you will understand their level of mental ability"

5) failing to understand people, intolerant, and enjoy persecuting people -"There is no normal or weirdo as it is a matter of relativity, there is only different. And for anyone to classify anyone as weird is only showing their failure to understand and accept that people can be different from their understanding of normal. After all, the only people who say that political correctness is getting out of hand is only said by the people who enjoy persecuting others for being different. "

6) violent - "It is not their freedom to force other people to accept being called a weirdo and to accept bloody noses."

7) hurtful and cruel - " I have only ever heard people say "political correctness is getting out of hand" by people who enjoy causing other people feelings of hurt, lowering of self esteem and vulnerability. "

8) idiotic, oppressive, and persecutive* - "there’s no such thing as freedom of speech and whoever first coined the phrase is an idiot! Freedom from fear, oppression and persecution negates freedom of speech.

------ --------- ------- -------- -------- -----------

After all this, I have STILL respected your Freedom of Speech ...even after all you have said. I may disagree with most of what you said ...but I am a big girl and don't feel hurt, threatened, or persecuted by what you have said

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"The vagabond who's rapping at your door,
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore.""

Doanna, I'm ever so sorry you felt my post was aimed at you. I was only trying to reiterate my understanding and I did not accuse you of anything.

My only reference to you was actually an apology because I thought my previous post, which was fuelled by your initial post, I felt was a little harsh and I regretted that I didn’t chose my words more wisely.

I am still having difficulty in trying to understand where describing someone as a weirdo is not offensive. Maybe you could provide some examples? Maybe something like... "Hey, look at that weirdo, yes the one between the cripple and the spastic." is ok?

"Look at the weirdo with the umbrella, the sun is out." There is nothing derogatory about that unless that is what you want it to be. All that states is someone has strange behavior based on a particular set of circumstances. So do you want to lock up and throw away the key for someone who says that?

I think this is a no win thread, lol.

Hugs,
Marsha

Sometimes the "weirdo with the umbrella" may just be sheltering from the sun.

I'm not sure if that actually means anything, it just popped into my head.

Zen?

When ?

Penny, I do so like your thoughts.
If you look up weirdo in a thesaurus, where there are many flavors to this meaning. But a word that is Synonymous to weirdo is character.
Character is also categorized, as eccentric, that's not bad, or nonconformist, maverick. Heard enough of that maverick label during the last U.S. election..LOL
Anyhow, where is this heading, it can be many things, to many people of all sorts of thinking, all types of life style. I will quote " character is what one is; reputation is what one is thought to be by others".
I believe in accepting others as they are, and I wish the same. I believe in walking the walk and not just talking the talk.
I have always been treated well, but just because that was today does not mean the world will look at me the same tomorrow. The world picks the label for the day, yes even maybe weirdo, I'll just keep walking.
Tammy

Penny,
If I referred to your stated beliefs as being idiotic (see list in my previous posting), would you not feel that I was accusing you??
In reply to your question..."Hey, look at that weirdo, yes the one between the cripple and the spastic."
*** perhaps the person in the middle is wearing a "tinfoil hat" while helping the other two down the street... it doesn't change much does it..
hugs!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

I have a friend. He holds his hand up against his head facing outward gripping his nose with 2 fingers either side, with his other hand on top of his head he hums really loudly and it is absolutely disgusting that people call him a weirdo. It is really hurtful and he doesn’t deserve to be persecuted by ignorant people who just don’t realise that he has Asperger Syndrome. He is a human being who deserves to be treated with the same respect as any other human being.

Does he identify as a weirdo?
Does he deserve to be called a weirdo?
Do you think it is right for someone to call him a weirdo?

My point being, some people may see nothing wrong to refer to someone as a weirdo but I would say the majority of people who are referred to as a weirdo would be offended by such comments, hurt, lowered self esteem and feel vulnerable. Aka, it is persecution. Once again I can only say that it is only an ignorant person who uses weirdo to describe someone.

Perhaps this is an English behaviour, I do not know, but would like to. In the UK publicly singling people out and making comments about them is concidered to be bad mannered. Yes it happens, as it does everywhere, and weirdo over here is rarely a term used to describe someone positively. Although the Oxford Dictionary defines the word as a person whose dress or behaviour seems strange or eccentric, it tends to evoke an image of someone who is negatively subversive and unpleasant, sexually devient.

A thought has occurred to me. If I decided to start a forum thread called "Who thinks Doanna/Marsha/Penny etc. is a weirdo?" And I then went on to say I have met her and I talk every night to her and have seen her pictures and based on this I think she is a total weirdo and invited other people to contribute with their opinions, how long would my thread remain active?

Alison,
What you said (below) about the image the word "weirdo" evokes has little to do with the true definition of the word.
As you said, perhaps this is an English behavior....

"Although the Oxford Dictionary defines the word as a person whose dress or behaviour seems strange or eccentric, it tends to evoke an image of someone who is negatively subversive and unpleasant, sexually devient. "

The personal image a word evokes in one person is not necessarily "evoked" in another, therefore does not merit all the "vitriol" that has been unleashed towards those who do do share that "personal image" when they hear that word.
Therefore, persons using that word (in the proper context) do not deserve being referred to, or considered as being, "ignorant, unintelligent, uneducated, lacking in ability, abusive, criminal, having low level of mental ability, failing to understand people, intolerant, those who enjoy persecuting people, violent, hurtful, cruel, idiotic, and oppressive.... as was stated earlier in this forum.

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"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

Alison,
I can't understand why you would need to lie ( or even suggest lying) about having met me and talked with me every night - unless you have no true grounds to believe me to be a weirdo - or are you just trying to distort the issue?

If the fact that someone disagrees with your beliefs is enough for you to start a forum titled "Who thinks Doanna/Marsha/Penny etc. is a weirdo?" in retaliation - then it would probably indicate a serious character flaw in you... a flaw that all who read it will see.

If you were to include lies ("I have met her and I talk every night to her and have seen her pictures and based on this I think she is a total weirdo") such as you have mentioned, then I would probably "pity" you. If you have to include lies as a justification for an unsubstantiated claim (or belief) ...then you are a truly, pitiful, person.

Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom to Slander or Libel. Can you handle the responsibility that comes with Freedom of Speech?
----------------------------------------------------------

Doanna, I think you have highlighted a very important aspect which needs to be clarified regarding "Freedom of Speech". To me, the phrase "freedom of speech" means someone having the right to say any word to any person, taken literally there are no degrees how much freedom the freedom of speech is. As no one has the right to say any word to any individual to me that means no one has freedom of speech. If I were to use the term “freedom of speech” as a definition of what someone could say legally or bound by some social level of acceptance I would need to explain what laws and social acceptance affect the meaning of freedom in that instance and hence the usage of the term freedom of speech then becomes arbitrary. Hence why, to me, the term freedom of speech will always mean any word said to any person which is inclusive and synonymous with concepts.

I hope this clears up any confusion to what freedom of speech means to me.

Penny
X

Penny,
I don't think you quite have it yet.
Freedom of Speech covers everything.
As I pointed out to Alison, if you slander or libel someone ...they have a right to seek damages in the courts. Libel and Slander have strict conditions that are well defined and need to be met in order to be addressed in Court.
If you harass a person as well ...they have a legal recourse, but again, there are conditions that need to be met.
Calling a person a weirdo (if they can reasonably fit within that definition) is not a crime. The fact that their feelings may be hurt by that has no legal implications.
If I called a person a liar, or a thief and they have not lied or stolen ...then they have legal recourse and I can be successfully sued in court.
Freedom of Speech has responsibilities and consequences that come with it - but the freedom is always there.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My childhood days bring back sweet reflections ... the happy times I spent so long ago
My childhood friends and kind relations ...have all past on now like melting snow...

Doanna, Its very difficult when it appears you are not understanding what I am saying and I am sure you feel the same way about me. In my previous post I said that the term freedom of speech includes all words said to anyone and your response says that I haven’t quite got it yet because freedom of speech covers everything. At what point are the things we are saying going to be understood by each other? Ie, you said I don’t understand then repeated exactly what I said!

It is not a matter of who is right or wrong, it is a matter of understanding how different people understand the same thing in a different way. This is because of the differences in culture and society.

I will try and explain myself in another way, to me, freedom of speech is saying whatever word you like to whomever you like and as by law we cannot do that so no one has freedom of speech. Your words are, freedom of speech has responsibilities and consequences, I would say freedom of speech is governed by responsibilities and consequences. It would be nice if you could indicate that you understand the difference in how we both regard the term freedom of speech.

The reason my understanding of freedom of speech is devoid of law, responsibilities and consequences are because those laws, responsibilities and consequences change depending on the environment of the context.

It would be perfectly acceptable for you to say something like, its acceptable to call someone a weirdo in Canada because the laws and social etiquette determine it is not an abusive or derogatory term to use.

And like wise, I would say, in the UK some people find the term weirdo abusive. People refrain from using the term weirdo in case they offend unless they are purposely with intent to offend in which case it is a crime of hate and persecution. In the UK only ignorant people use the term weirdo to describe another.

Crissie, I really enjoyed your post. However, I would like to point out that if the receiver of the description finds it offensive it can be classed as a Section 5 Public Order Offence. The victim does not need to pursue or press charges as the perpetrator can be street cautioned or arrested with a 3rd party referal.

http://www.walthamforest.[...]orm.pdf

Penny
x

Penny, in your first post you stated that "To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime."
*** In North America, it is not considered a crime (or persecution) to call someone a weirdo - if they reasonably fit that description.
That is the whole point I have been making.

You also said "The truth of the matter is, not one person is a weirdo. We all know the meaning of weird and that weirdo refers to someone who shows characteristics of being weird."
***well, in North America, we go by the meaning of the word. Your own "truth of the matter" is your own opinion ...and would not be acceptable in our courts.

Then you launched a diatribe against "someone" who uses that term as having a "lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo."

In later posts, you expanded on that list...

The link to the "complaint form" you included may be relevant in the UK - but has no legal force in other jurisdictions ...and as YOU first said it was posted on the internet...you have no idea what jurisdiction that person falls under.
If that person is from the UK, then of course the UK laws apply - possibly even the EU laws.

Perhaps next time you should consider the fact that not all people in the world are under the same laws and social structure as those that are in the UK ...and they manage to do "quite" well with their own systems.

-------------------------------------------------

"But the sea is wide and I cannot swim over... and neither have I the wings to fly
If I could find me a handsome boatman... to ferry me over my love and I"

- I find the "complaint form" you have posted unlike anything that would be used in North America.
- If a third party complained about something that was said to another person...the cops would tell them to mind their own business.
- We do not have "Anti-Social Behavior Police" here. (I heard that term referred to by you in another forum)

Doanna has demonstrated that freedom of speech in North America means you can say what you like unless your opinion is different at which point you will be brow beaten to death until you say what she wants you to say. Bearing in mind I was only trying to explain how things are for me and I never said or implied that anyone else in the world should be any different to how they all ready are. Maybe this is a North American thing where they expect everyone else in the world to be just like North Americans or you will be bombed!

Being a complete rebel, I still think anyone who uses the term weirdo to describe anyone is pig ignorant.

Penny,
I haven't demonstrated any such thing...

When I responded to your posts, I provided "quotes" of what you STATED. In re-reading those quotes, I do not see "opinions" ..I see absolute statements such as,
"the only people who say that political correctness is getting out of hand is only said by the people who enjoy persecuting others for being different. "
"I have only ever heard people say "political correctness is getting out of hand" by people who enjoy causing other people feelings of hurt, lowering of self esteem and vulnerability."
"It seems every time I debate about human rights I get jumped on by US members quoting “Freedom of Speech!” well, I’m sorry, there’s no such thing as freedom of speech and whoever first coined the phrase is an idiot! Freedom from fear, oppression and persecution negates freedom of speech."

I could go on and on, but these, and many of your statements are given by you to be fact..not opinion.

So in effect, YOU have demonstrated that you have no real concept of Freedom of Speech - and when you are confronted with YOUR OWN statements, you then claim they were just your "opinion" ...then you say your are being "brow-beaten to death" by me until you say what I want you to say.
Then you say "Maybe this is a North American thing where they expect everyone else in the world to be just like North Americans or you will be bombed!"
***where do you come up with the idea that you will be bombed???? - Is this the way you defend your position - by using statements like that???


-----------------------------------------------------------

And you read your Emily Dickinson, and I my Robert Frost,
And we note our place with book-markers, that measure what we've lost.
Like a poem poorly written,
We are verses out of rhythm, couplets out of rhyme,
...In syncopated time

Doanne, and Penny,

I'm really enjoying your banter, keep it up, in my humble opinion it's 30 - 40 to Penny at the moment!!!!

Huggles

Becca

Doanna,
It is clear to me that we both have complete different concepts of freedom of speech. Whilst I have never been known to say something that is not of my opinion, why would anyone say something that isn’t their opinion? I don’t know! On this thread you have persistently attacked me for the things I have said despite my freedom of speech. You have persistently accused my statements to be wrong where for the most part I believe the majority of people where I live would probably agree with me. And you persistently accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about where as I would say you have little idea of how we enjoy our freedoms in the UK accusing our little inbred backwater of being a nanny state with thought police.

Considering we have the Equality bill, Non Discrimination Act, Transgender recognition Act, Civil Partnership Act (which is same sex marriages) I’m sorry I blighted your superiority with my inbred and backward ways of thinking!

And God forbid I have an independent thought!

Crissie, I think you make some good points. When provoked, people say words they wouldn’t normally use including weirdo and ignorant pig and for the most part are the resulting product of consequences. I'm sorry if you found my use of ignorant pig offensive. It’s not something I usually make a habit of saying. The 3rd party referal is primarily targeted for the protection of vulnerable adults like my friend with Asperger Syndrome who might not necessarily have the capacity to press charges but also the 3rd party referral can be used in any circumstance. If the term weirdo was felt inappropriate in a particular instance the police certainly would take steps to enforce a Section 5.

To Everyone,
I find it pretty amazing, for all the comments on this thread, that everyone seems to be more concerned about having the freedom to call whomever they like a weirdo over respecting and attempting to preserve the freedoms of someone like my friend who has Asperger Syndrome.

This has just gotten too weird

Penny,
1) I am so glad you have apologized to Cristine regarding your use of the expression "pig ignorant."

2) Throughout this forum, you have used terms (below) to assail anyone who does not share your "opinions" ... such as,

"pig ignorant, ignorant, unintelligent, uneducated, and lacking in ability, abusive, criminal, low level of mental ability, failing to understand people, intolerant, those that enjoy persecuting people, violent, hurtful and cruel, idiotic, oppressive, persecution, idiot, people who enjoy persecuting others for being different, and "a North American thing where they expect everyone else in the world to be just like North Americans or you will be bombed" - the list goes on...

***I fail to see how your propensity to this type of reaction towards those who disagree with your opinions can possibly be a positive factor in your life.

*** As for some of the things you have said on this forum, I will attribute it to "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato.".

by the way,
In Canada, we have we have Acts that ensure equality, recognize civil/common law marriages (including same sex), and our Health System adequately covers SRS. Further, we have both independent thought AND Freedom of Speech here.

--------------------------------------------------------

"Leave your stepping stones behind, something calls for you.
Forget the dead you've left, they will not follow you.
The vagabond who's rapping at your door
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore."

I don’t have any problem with someone who has different opinions to me. However, I do have a problem with someone who attacks me for the opinions do I have and who doesn’t allow me the freedom to express myself. Right from the start you have been attacking me for being wrong or not understanding how things are, well, they may be that way for you but please allow me the freedom to live my way.

Maybe you misunderstood the fact that it doesnt really bother me that people use the term weirdo to describe someone. Its just when I hear the term used by person to describe someone, that someone could have Asperger Syndrome and makes me think the term user was a bit thoughtless and hence ignorant towards the feelings of the someone.

I am more than happy to apologise where I feel I haven’t conducted myself how I would of liked, that’s something called humility.

"an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato.".

Wasn't that what Ebeneezer Scrooge said to the ghost of Jacob Marley?

Well now thankfully we have had the error of our opinions explained to us by the careful analysis of our every word, and its been proven that is absolutely our right and acceptable to proclaim people to be "weirdos". I assume the next stage will be to establish a system of judgement so that we can decide who is such a person, then maybe we could establish a list so that we know who we are ( I am sure I qualify for this to someone somewhere). I am just thinking of the words that tend to precede "weirdo" over here in poor old uneducated oppressed uncultured Ingsoc, oops many are not allowed to be used on these forums silly me. Ok lets recall the wonderful memories I have of the term being playfully used in the past towards me, ah yes the playground in 1982 when I was beaten to a pulp for my gender issues by 200 screaming children who in their frenzy pushed each other aside to make sure they got their punches into the "f@@@@@g weirdo". Oh how those rogues playfully jostled me for two entire years as my sister looked on helplessly, and yes back then it was ok to do , the teachers walked away from the scene. I am looking forward to our new enlightened future in Big Brother Land.
Thanks Again

Janis,
Yes, there was a ghost in the room.
When I stated "As for some of the things you have said on this forum, I will attribute it to "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato.", ... I was trying to give Penny some "Slack" and an opportunity for her to examine the real Ghost in her closet.

Janis,
I love your taste in clothing!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

Penny,

I think you are being disingenuous in your last posting because on your very first posting you made no mention of your friend with Asperger Syndrome at all. In fact, it was not until your FIFTH posting that you even used the word "Asperger."
This is not the first time you have tried to "muddle and distort" what has been said - did you think this would not be noticed???

Further, anyone can see from the very first post you made, you were attacking anyone who uses the term weirdo to describe another person - for any reason. Your subsequent postings only increased in vehemence.

When you use terms such as "it occurred to me that there is no such thing.not one person on this planet is a weirdo" and "The truth of the matter is, not one person is a weirdo" ... then you are the one who is attacking the opinions and speech of others that happen to be supported by the dictionary,
and when you state "I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime.someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime." ... you are attacking the freedom of speech of others to use that term accurately.
Perhaps the root of your difficulties lies somewhat deeper than "an undigested bit of beef"

I have copied your first posting below to make it easier for you and anyone else to see why I responded to you your first posting as I did.
**********************
Pennys first posting,

"Hiya.

Someone made a comment "There’s a lot of weirdoes on the internet" and it occurred to me that there is no such thing, not one person on this planet is a weirdo. We all know the meaning of weird and that weirdo refers to someone who shows characteristics of being weird. That is what everyone is taught and it is also what the dictionaries explain. Some people even go as far as to adopt the term as a derogatory word used to abuse someone.

The truth of the matter is, not one person is a weirdo. The usage is simply used by an individual to explain a characteristic of person that they know little or nothing about and hence do not understand. I have examined a number of examples of the use of the word and in every case there has been a logical and comprehensive explanation to the apparent "weirdness" of the person that was described.

I would say that an individual who uses the term "weirdo" does so simply because of a lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo."

I would say an intelligent person, instead of determining weirdness would instead gauge someone as to whether they are breaking the law or not. To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime.

So, next time you hear someone use the term "weirdo" you will understand their level of mental ability. Maybe the dictionaries should be rewritten to reflect this. "

***********************

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

Hi All,
I agree that weirdo has unfortunately been co-opted to mean a derogatory term.

However, in it's classic definition, I identify with being outside the norms when it comes to Gender Identity.
A gal inside of a physically male body is outside of the statistical norms of society in general.

I'm quite happy to finally be open about who I am. Hopefully, someday the inner and outer me will
be in sync.

Hugz,
MichelleLynn

Michelle,
like the little phrase I put at the bottom of some postings..being in sync..

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

hugs

I still hold the opinion that anyone who uses the term weirdo to describe another ie "There’s a lot of weirdoes on the internet" as being ignorant.

Whilst I am always open to listening to people who have different opinions and I always encourage anyone to speak up and express their opinion however different it is to mine, at which point I thank everyone for their valuable contributions, I feel it is a great shame that I am attacked for the opinions that I hold.

Now and again I have been accused of having views and opinions that are idealistic and unrealistic. I appreciate that some people might not live in a society that is as sophisticated and that the things I say can seem a bit farfetched. However, in the society I live in there is a very wide variety of different types of people with different views on how to live. Some even feel they have the right to say whatever they like to another regardless of how hurtful and persecuting those words are. Thankfully, our government believes it is more important for people to live in peace and without persecution more than the freedom to interfere with other peoples’ lives and the freedom of speech.

Once again, I have only expressed my opinion and how I live my life. I haven’t said that no one should say weirdo. I haven’t told anyone how to live their life. I haven’t attacked anyone for the views they hold. I respect everyone’s freedom to be different. Thank you for respecting the words I say and I would love to hear your opinions too as long as you don’t attack me.

Love
Penny
x

Penny,
You have contradicted yourself many times in this forum... ,

1) "I haven’t said that no one should say weirdo. I haven’t told anyone how to live their life. I haven’t attacked anyone for the views they hold."
**how about when you said this " I would say that an individual who uses the term "weirdo" does so simply because of a lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo.""
***How many other instances like that must I quote??

2) "It seems every time I debate about human rights I get jumped on by US members quoting “Freedom of Speech!” well, I’m sorry, there’s no such thing as freedom of speech and whoever first coined the phrase is an idiot!"

*** I see in what you said that you were stating a fact!! "There is no such thing as Freedom of Speech" and "who ever first coined the phrase is an Idiot". I do not see "In my opinion" or anything else that indicates it is only an opinion.

*** It is interesting that you do not even know the name of the person who "coined that phrase" - let alone ever met that person...yet you can say that "whoever coined that phrase" IS "an idiot"

3) "To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime. "

*** YOU alone have "determined" that using the word weirdo to describe someone is abuse. YOU alone have DECIDED that the person used that word as abusive ...even though the dictionary contradicts your view. You then attribute the use of the word as being a crime (based on YOUR interpretation alone) because YOU alone have determine the use of that word as "abuse" and "Persecution"

4) "So, next time you hear someone use the term "weirdo" you will understand their level of mental ability. Maybe the dictionaries should be rewritten to reflect this."

*** You make this statement as fact, that people "will understand their level of mental ability" - (used against the people who use that term,) after you have described people using that term in the previous paragraph in that posting as follows... ,
"I would say that an individual who uses the term "weirdo" does so simply because of a lack of more suitable method to explain and describe something because they are either uneducated, unintelligent or just plain ignorant and in turn do not posses the ability to describe something in any way other than by using the term "weirdo." "

*** please note the use of "does so simply because of... ", "because they are..." (twice), "just plain ignorant...", and "and in turn do not posses (possess) the ability...."

*** so in effect, after you presented all these statements as fact, you then tell people that "next time you hear someone use the term "weirdo" you will understand their level of mental ability" in reference to the people that use the word weirdo.

*** Since the dictionaries do not agree with you...you suggest the dictionaries should be rewritten to agree with your definition of the word "weirdo". Are you omnipotent, or do you just have delusions of grandeur?

@@@
First of all, your argument is circular...at best. You present statements as fact, then you say they are opinions, then you use these "statements of fact" (later, opinions according to you) to further justify more statements - which you then say are only opinions...then you decide that people are to agree with you by telling them that "next time you hear someone use the term "weirdo" you will understand their level of mental ability." ..in reference to people who use the word weirdo.
How can you tell someone that they "will understand" another persons actions based on YOUR "opinions" ..as you call them? The only way you could say that was if you knew what you said was factual ...and not an opinion.


-----------------------------

It is truly fortunate for us that you do not hold any form of authority over any other person, dictionary,- or anything else ...other than yourself..

People who say things like "There’s a lot of weirdoes on the internet" are ignorant.

I wish to try and itemise the freedoms I enjoy that Doanna has so generously pointed out... (hold on a minute, there’s a long list)

The freedom to contradict myself.
The freedom to state and explain things that I believe to be facts.
The freedom to hold an opinion.
The freedom to express that opinion.
The freedom to hold an opinion that is different to others.
The freedom to hold beliefs that may differ from others.
The freedom to hold the opinion that whoever coined the phrase "freedom of speech" is an idiot.
The freedom to think that when the term weirdo is used to describe someone that it is considered abusive and persecuting.
The freedom to express that whenever I hear someone use the term weirdo that I might also conclude their mental ability may be undeveloped.
The freedom to hold a circular argument.
The freedom to think that it would be nice if the dictionaries were rewritten.

I would like to reciprocate and say...

You have the freedom to believe I want the dictionaries rewritten.
You have the freedom to disagree with my opinions.
You have the freedom to quote me as much as you like.
You have the freedom to believe I am omnipotent.

Thanks very much Doanna for making a point of highlighting the freedoms I enjoy. I just wish I could return the same but unfortunately I fell asleep. However, keep up the good work!
Love
Penny
x

Penny,
You forgot to mention that you feel you have the right to prosecute anyone who does not agree with your "opinions" or has "opinions" their own that are supported by the dictionary.
You seem too quick to take other peoples rights away if they don't agree with your "opinions"

"To which I would also say that someone abusing someone with the term "weirdo" is crime because persecution of any type towards any person is a crime.

---------------------------------------

I have a feeling you are going to find yourself guilty of incorrect thought again with this one Penny. After all what you express is not appropriate to North American justice and is therefore of no worth.

Doanna,
I find it rather interesting that you call the defence of my opinions the un-acceptance of opinions that are different especially after I made it so clear on quite a number of occasions that I enjoy listening to differing opinions, just not being attacked for the opinions that are held. I would also like to point out that if you had propositioned your opinions as an alternative outlook on life instead of accusing me of being wrong then I am sure this thread would have taken a completely different route of discourse.
That’s all I have to say, I'm not going to drag this out anymore.
Penny
x

Hi all. Great post Penny. As someone who has been called weird most of my life even before people know about the girl inside(due to hair style,hair colour,clothes ect)I think what Tracey said is right. What the hell is normal?people are way too quick to label others just for being different.mostly I think it's ignorance. It's easier to label someone different to yourself than to try and understand what they are about. If I'm weird than great who the hell would want to be "normal" anyway?take care love lillith x

Well said Tara. Good for you girl. People should be proud to be different. Take care love lillith