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Rude Shop Assistants

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  • There's no excuse for rudeness. When I go into a ladies clothes shop dressed en femme I expect to be treated as well as any customer should be and usually I am. However, today I was made to feel like some kind of pervert and asked to leave the shop. It was very embarrassing.

    Has this ever happened to you?

    Femmy
      October 5, 2010 5:43 PM BST
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  • My goodness, no.
    What shop was it and why did they say they wanted you to leave?
    xx
      October 5, 2010 6:01 PM BST
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  • Unacceptable! I would contact the owner and tell them who chased me out and point out that they have lost your business and your friends' business. Is there not some law against that in the UK? In California"...persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and
    equal, and no matter what their sex, . . . are entitled to the full and equal
    accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business
    establishments of every kind whatsoever,” I am sure protections are at least equal, if not more protective, in the UK. If they have broken the law, you could file a complaint. I suspect, here at least, you could sue the owner/shop worker if you had evidence.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      October 5, 2010 8:04 PM BST
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  • 252
    That's absolutely ridiculous behavior, Femmy. I'm sorry if you got your feelings hurt, I would have had mine hurt, too. *big hugs*

    Zoey
    I am the itch, after it was scratched.
      October 5, 2010 8:22 PM BST
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  • it was definitely illegal and you really need to kick up a fuss.
    Trading Standards Office in your town is the place to do that but a letter of complaint to managing director at head office woudl be good.
      October 5, 2010 9:44 PM BST
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  • 734
    No, Femmy, never happened to me. Hope you do complain as this type of behaviour is completely unacceptable. By contrast, I was in a branch of M & Co today looking for a new top for a meal out. The staff couldn't have been more helpfull, friendly or welcoming. May be we need a name, shame or praise thread???
    Best wishes
    Rae
    www.raekelcou.com
      October 5, 2010 10:59 PM BST
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  • What a terrible predicament to be in. Not sure on the legal basis, the amendments regarding transsexuals and their rights, regarding being denied goods and or a service, the opening paragraph, of the Gender recognition act.states, anyone who is recognised as being under medical supervision. The supply of goods and services act then refers back to the Gender Recognition act. Not sure its the right for any shopkeeper to refuse to serve anyone. But to do so on discrimination grounds is despicable wether your under official medical supervision or not. I will attempt to find out for you, the relevant goods and service act are in the law forum.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 5, 2010 11:51 PM BST
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  • Femmy,
    I am so sorry to hear what you have gone through in that store. I do not know everything that was said...but they certainly had no right to tell you to leave the store. Regardless of what gender, or what clothing you are wearing...you have a right to shop in that store.

    Looking at your photo, I can only think that the clerk must have been jealous of how lovely you look. (HUGS!!!)

    What happened to you has never happened to me. I can only suggest you go back that store with a friend to back you up...and if they try that again....you should insist that the store call the police to have you removed. That way, the documentation can be used as evidence in a law suit.
    <p>Doanna Highland</p>
      October 6, 2010 7:02 AM BST
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  • Hi Femmy

    That is outrageous! Let us know who it it was so we all boycot them or better yet all get together (well some of us) all go shopping enmasse.

    A letter to the manager or CO has always been a very effective tool on my wife's amoury, and she uses it whenever she feels hard done by or received poor service.

    Hugs

    Tara
    Love and Light
      October 6, 2010 9:17 AM BST
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  • Protection for transsexual people as customers and service users

    The Sex Discrimination Act (SDA) was amended in April 2008 to protect transsexual people undergoing supervised medical treatment, against discrimination and harassment in the provision of goods, facilities and services. This adds to the previous protection in employment and vocational training.

    The law applies to both public and commercially run services and enterprises.




    Amendments April 2010


    * It is unlawful for a publican or shopkeeper to refuse to serve a customer because they are **intending to undergo, are undergoing or have undergone gender reassignment.



    (1)A person (a “service-provider”) concerned with the provision of a service to the public or a section of the public (for payment or not) must not discriminate against a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

    (2)A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, discriminate against a person (B)—

    (a)as to the terms on which A provides the service to B;

    (b)by terminating the provision of the service to B;

    (c)by subjecting B to any other detriment.

    (3)A service-provider must not, in relation to the provision of the service, harass B—

    (a)a person requiring the service, or

    (b)a person to whom the service-provider provides the service.

    (4)A service-provider must not victimise a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

    (5)A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, victimise a person (B)—

    (1)A person (a “service-provider”) concerned with the provision of a service to the public or a section of the public (for payment or not) must not discriminate against a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

    (2)A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, discriminate against a person (B)—

    (a)as to the terms on which A provides the service to B; this means the conditions of sale, provision of goods, or contract must not
    carry penalties or surcharge or differ from the same terms to any other person


    (b)by terminating the provision of the service to B;

    (c)by subjecting B to any other detriment.

    (3)A service-provider must not, in relation to the provision of the service, harass—

    (a)a person requiring the service, or

    (b)a person to whom the service-provider provides the service.

    (4)A service-provider must not victimise a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

    (5)A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, victimise a person

    ** this is the important amendment as it no longer directly states a person must be under medical supervision, the emphasis is on intending

    Anyone with any questions please post in the law forum, I will try and answer them, if I cannot do it immediately I will seek clarification and advice.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 6, 2010 11:41 AM BST
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    Hi Femmy,im so sorry to hear what happend to you.it's never happened to me and I hope it never does.Tara made a great point if you name the shop we could boycott it. There's a hell of a lot of uk members on here and that could hit them where it really hurts. Try to not let a few idiots get you down..keep smiling. Take care love lillith x
    <p>man i feel like a woman</p>
      October 6, 2010 6:42 PM BST
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  • Hi Femmy,

    I don't remember having any problems in shops, but I did have an experience in a coffee shop at the end of August. This may help some to understand the difference between the UK and the USA as mentioned in this thread and Cristine's followup one.

    On Saturday afternoon I got a panicked call from a friend who has occasional mental collapses. I drove about 40 miles to her house and spent the evening calming her down. We went out to dinner and I had a glass of red wine at about 8pm. That was the only drink I had had in at least 24 hours. At about 4am she had calmed down and I started back to home leaving her asleep.

    I was dead tired and decided to stop and get a little breakfast at a coffee shop, part of a national chain in the US. I was dressed in jeans, a sweatshirt, tennis shoes, a bit of jewelry and makeup and an auburn wig. Not very fashionable, but certainly nothing outrageous.

    I took a small booth in the back and ordered juice, ham and eggs. There were maybe 4 other customers in the place, mostly at the counter. My waitress wasn't exactly friendly but I didn't think anything of it - I'm sure I didn't look like a big tipper at 6am on a Sunday morning.

    A family came in and took a booth directly across from me - they obviously were either coming from or going to church. Even the little boys were were in suit and tie. After a while I noticed they were looking at me and laughing and the kids were pointing at me. I was very tired and I really didn't give a damn. I ignored them. They called the waitress over and they talked with her for a while. After which she came over to me as I was eating my breakfast and said, "SIR, you will have to leave right now!" The food wasn't very good and I didn't need the hassle, so I picked up my bag and walked towards the door. As I opened the door to leave she said quietly, "If you ever come in here again, I'll call the Police!" My reply would not get by TGS's automated Forum censor.

    I later wrote to the corporate headquarters of the coffee shop complaining about how I was treated. I got a form letter apology and a voucher for 4 free meals in return.

    This company has been sued for discriminating against African Americans several times in the past so I gave the vouchers to a black family in my neighborhood - I certainly am never going to patronize the coffee shop ever again - the food was lousy.

    Best,
    Melody

    <p><span style="color: #800080;">Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola</span> - Ray Davies, The Kinks</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">(S)he's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction</span> - Kris Kristofferson</p>
      October 6, 2010 11:14 PM BST
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  • Maybe you should have sued them Melody.

    Thanks for your comments and advice ladies. By the way, remember, I live in Germany so our laws may be different to the US and UK.

    As for the shop, well I can only suggest that if you are in Berlin, you exercise caution in the area around KaDeWe.

    Danke vielmals, Femmy
      October 7, 2010 12:12 AM BST
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  • I love the idea of naming and shaming and I don't mind going first. Mine is Wolverhampton Homes, which is the largest housing association in Wolverhampton. The council use them as arm's length management, which works well because you can never actually pin anything on either of them. In 2006 my partner and I formed a civil partnership, and 2 weeks later we went to the main office of the association to have the tenancy amended so that I was included on it. The woman who dealt with us had previously made my partner's life a living hell and frozen her account then claimed she wasnt paying rent , but we eventually got it unfrozen, however nothing was ever done about the mis-deed. We were required to submit our bank details our civil partnership certificate and our birth certificates along with evidence of deedpoles and evidence of our transitions. The woman looked at it all then said loudly oh so you are both men then! We were so stunned and embarrassed and also very intimidated by the bullying nature of Wolverhampton Homes that we sat there in silence. We did the wrong thing I am sure most people would agree but we knew if we made a fuss they would have had a vendetta against us and we would one way or another been evicted for something and also that the company often just ignores inconvenient complaints. Ironically the woman who made our lives a misery is minority status herself due to her race, but we have found that some of the worst people for discrimination can often be people who bleat on about being discriminated against themselves.
      October 7, 2010 3:15 PM BST
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  • There are several options available to correct these unfortunate circumstances.

    The first thing that I recommend you need to do is phone your local police none emergency number, explain the situation and say that you require a crime number. You might find your call is elevated to the control room. Being armed with a crime number will give your subsequent complaint to the offender substance and validity. Of course it also helps to phone the police within 24hrs, especially if you are emotionally affected by psychological trauma which will raise the gravity of the offence. You can expect several visits from the police to take a statement and to ensure you are coping with the ordeal. The victim support unit is very caring too.

    You can write a letter to the head office of the outlet of the offender with details of the incident quoting the crime reference number and ask what action you can expect from the company. You can expect the employees to be reprimanded if not sacked as no company wishes to portray a bigoted attitude for its customers. If the company fails to respond you can expect the police to take action on your behalf and pursue your complaint.

    If it is the offenders first offence they will most likely receive a street caution which lasts 12 months. If they commit another offence within that period is it an automatic arrest and interview at the station. If they make a subsequent offense they can expect to serve a custodial sentence. You never know what history they have so make it count or they will continue to get away with making peoples' lives a misery.

    This information is what I have been told and I hope it also empowers anyone reading to stand up for your freedom!
    Love
    Penny
    x
    Just an ordinary girl finding her way in this strange life. - What will it take to get everyone to realise that everyone else is also a human being that deserves just as much respect? - How does someone tell their doctor they have hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia? - When I was a student I specialised in Alcopology. It always starts with Alco and always ends with pology. - Waiter! There's a hare in my rabbit pie!
      October 7, 2010 4:20 PM BST
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  • Feminy I would do some research on german laws regarding your leagl rights as a TS.
      October 11, 2010 3:47 AM BST
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  • Sorry, Femmy, but your national flag on your profile pic is UK and threw me.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      October 11, 2010 9:06 AM BST
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  • Hiya Femmy,

    It confused me as well, I'm sure you used to live in Hamburg, assumed you had returned to the UK, Whilst i'm sure the EHRC should cover the situation you found yourself in, but the only references I could find, on German law itself was rather suprising.

    Article 2f

    In Germany there’s no law that protects transsexual women against discrimination. Altough there’s a law called „Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz“ (like ENDA, the employment non discriminiation act in the US) who protects for example homosexual people, transsexual women – women who are born as girls with penis and gonads – aren’t protected.

    Why did the German Government forget transexual women respectively gender identity in their laws against dicrimination?

    Article 3

    Although the German Laws should protect women against sexual harassment, transsexual women aren’t protect as long as they have a male gender marker. If someone abuses a transsexual women she has to go to court legally as a „psychic ill man“.

    Why are transsexual women not protected especially against malpractice and sexual abuse of the psychiatric „experts“ in the legal name-change-process in the German Law Of Transsexuals (there are numerous cases of psychic violations and sexual abuse in the name-change-process)?
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      October 11, 2010 10:04 AM BST
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  • Hi Femmy,

    I live in Germany too and I've never , as Lynn, had any problems in the shops here.


    Schönen Tag noch,

    Lynn
    "It ain't what you do,it's the way that you do it............and that's what gets results!"
      October 11, 2010 11:03 AM BST
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