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To Hormone or not to Hormone?

  • Yes Rikki

    I have been doing some checking and it turned out that many companies inside Europe send the stuff from outside EU. However I found one company in Spain, whick also packs the drugs there. Contradictionary this company wants to have US dollars instead of euros.
    I wouldn´t be acting here on my own if we had a more modern health care system without long governmental waiting lists... I´m far too independent and stubborn for just to wait forever.


      October 4, 2002 8:32 AM BST
  • This is quickly turning into my favorite topic of discussion.

    Regarding getting your isoflavones from Red Clover vs. Soy, here's an article that does a good job of explaining it: Red Clover: Better than Soy. For those in a hurry, here's a short quote that sums it up:

    "Why red clover? Soy contains a variety of isoflavones, including two potent ones called genistein and daidzein. But red clover, in comparison, has two additional ones called formononetin and biochanin. Red clover also contains flavonoid compounds called coumestans, which some studies suggest have six times more estrogen like activity than most isoflavones."

    I don't blame you for being angry. They should've shipped your order in a regular box, especially if the package is headed for the "EU."

    As you can see in my picture, I wear my hair long. A while back, my DNA turned against me and I noticed that I was starting the dreaded process known as "male pattern baldness." I intend to keep my hair, so, before the situation got bad, I saw a doctor and got a prescription for Propecia, which is 1 mg of Finasteride per day (to be taken for life, or until something better comes along). It works for me, as I haven't lost any hair since I started using it. Unlike Spironolactone, Finasteride isn't supposed to be a general antiandrogen, but it is still a testosterone blocker, and some patients have reported feminizing side effects (such as breast puffiness). Unfortunately, both drugs are very expensive.

    I have never discussed my desire to feminize with a doctor (of any kind), and, against advice from a couple of friends (and common sense), I started taking herbals before seeing a doctor. I just want to get a sense of what herbals can do before I make a commitment to prescription hormones. Someday, I might get prescriptions for Estradiol, Medroxyprogesterone Acetate, and Spironolactone (or similar drugs), but those are a bit too powerful for my current social situation. If female family members are any indication of how I'd look on a full-blown hormone regimen (very much the hour-glass figures), I doubt that I'd ever be able to hide my figure again, so I'd have to be ready to live as a woman. Most of the things I've read and heard indicate that a male can usually expect to achieve breast size of one cup-size below that of closely related female family members, with an all-out hormonal assault. As much as that appeals to me, the timing is not yet right, so maybe the herbals will help prepare me until I'm ready for the real thing (or should I say, "the synthetic thing"?).

      October 4, 2002 2:23 AM BST

  • Blah! Woof! Am I mad with our crazy customs. They just rejected my spironolactone and sent it bact to Thailand. They said drugs will be let in only from inside EU. Now I must find a company who´s packing the stuff inside this union.

    Try here - It's a UK company but I don't know where they ship from  -
    Luv and Huggs Rikki xxx Proud to be Transgender
      October 3, 2002 11:43 PM BST
  • Blah! Woof! Am I mad with our crazy customs. They just rejected my spironolactone and sent it bact to Thailand. They said drugs will be let in only from inside EU. Now I must find a company who´s packing the stuff inside this union.
    The problem was that the pills were too big, so they could feel them through the letter. And you can image their faces: Well, well what do we have, pills from Thailand...VEEERY suspicious. BLAAAH.

      October 3, 2002 11:52 AM BST
  • O.K., here's my revised list of daily dosages, after adjusting it during the first month. I take half in the morning and half in the evening. With herbals, getting the right combination is more art than science, so you'll always be a little confused. Click on the names of the herbs to see the brands I use.

    Herbals (phyto-stuff)

    Black Cohosh Root = 2060 mg (four 515 mg capsules)
    Red Clover = 860 mg (two 430 mg capsules)
    Dong Quai = 50 mg (as part of a multi-vitamin; two 25 mg tablets)

    Vitex Agnus-Castus = 800 mg (two 400 mg capsules)
    Wild Yam Root = 1000 mg (two 500 mg capsules)
    Suma = 1000 mg (two 500 mg capsules)


    Vitamin E = 200 I.U. (as part of a multi-vitamin; two 100 I.U. tablets)
    Pregnenolone = 60mg (two 30 mg capsules)
    Black Currant = 100 mg (as part of a multi-vitamin; two 50 mg tablets)
    Royal Jelly = 100 mg (as part of a multi-vitamin; two 50 mg tablets)

    Non-herbal Drugs

    Finasteride (Propecia) = 1 mg (1 tablet; prescription only)


    My new multi-vitamin is Especially for Women from the Vitamin Shoppe.

    In addition to being considered a phytoprogesterone, Vitex Agnus-Castus is often considered a phytoestrogen and a phytoantiandrogen. It just depends on the source of the information. From what I've read, it probably does fit into more than one category.

    Some use Saw Palmetto as a phytoantiandrogen, but it's supposed to do what Finasteride does, so I don't take it. Most trannies who take it for feminization use two daily doses of 160 mg each. However, while taking Saw Palmetto is considered to be generally healthy for most genetic males, there is much debate over whether this herb helps or hinders feminization in genetic males. Then again, the same can be said for most herbals.

    I probably wouldn't bother taking Dong Quai, Black Currant, or Royal Jelly if they didn't happen to be in my multi-vitamin, but they are there, so I listed them. Trannies who take them for feminization probably use larger doses than I, but, in my research, I haven't yet found any reason to use them.
      October 3, 2002 12:01 AM BST
  • samantha
    I used to take black cohosh before i went on perscription estrogen and i still take a phyto estrogen complex because it has other things in it like vitamin e and ginsing you can get them at any healt food store or even wall mart they are really reasonable.

               hope this helps              kelly
      October 2, 2002 11:49 PM BST
  • Hi girls I was wondering if one of you girls ot there could e-mail me a list of all the good ehrable feminzation products that some of you take???  :-/
    Thanks Samantha  :)
      October 2, 2002 10:31 PM BST
  • Not yet. I'm just starting my second month and I haven't noticed anything, but I'm not supposed to, at this point.  Exactly what are you taking, Randy?
      October 2, 2002 5:11 PM BST
  • I received my order today. I placed it on 9/23 and asked my doctor's office to send them the prescription, it shipped on 9/26, and it got here on 9/30. Considering the prescription wasn't already on file, I think the speed was reasonable, especially when you consider that the shipping time included a weekend. My order was right, too.
      September 30, 2002 10:40 PM BST
  • This Thai company Medicapharma seems to be supequick: I got my order in four days. Or then we are close to Thailand :)


      September 30, 2002 12:55 PM BST
  • Wow, that really is slow! Their ( shipping cost for my order was only $1.49, and now I know why! The Vitamin Shoppe is much faster. Still, if it's a routine order and you place it ahead of time, has a good reputation for being a legitimate drugstore, and that's especially important when ordering prescription drugs. I've heard of some on-line stores, especially in other countries, that might not send you what you actually paid for, even though the name and packaging are the same. Reliability is much more more important to me than speed.

    Still, I'm like you, in that I want the speedy delivery, too. All we're asking for is perfection. That's not too much, is it?
      September 29, 2002 4:48 PM BST
  • Kristina, I placed my order on 9/23 and they shipped it on 9/26. Of course, they had to get my doctor's prescription, and that was the first time my doctor's office had dealt with an on-line pharmacy. My prescription is now on file with, so my future orders for the next year should ship faster from the time I place the order. We'll see how long it takes this first order to arrive.

    Vitamin Shoppe is usually pretty quick. I normally get my orders within a few days. They have a good selection of brands in addition to their own, but theirs is usually the least expensive. I really love the Vitamin Shoppe! I get all of my herbals there.

    A close friend recommended both stores, and she's been using them for quite a while. So far, I like them both, but I wouldn't order online if I needed something right away. Sure, you can't beat walking into a local store if you need something ASAP, but as long as you plan at least a week ahead, you shouldn't have any problems with these two on-line stores. The main reason I tried them was because their prices were lower than any other stores' I've found, so far. =

    Vitamin Shoppe =
      September 27, 2002 11:22 PM BST
  • Earlier this week, I placed my first order (a prescription) through, so I'll let you know how it goes.

    I've used GNC vitamins, but I think they're over-priced.
      September 26, 2002 5:26 AM BST
  • Which store did you use? So far, I've had good experiences with the Vitamin Shoppe.
      September 25, 2002 4:03 AM BST
  • i cant answer... i takin nuthin. i know nuthin. i wish i did/
    patience is a virtue, or is it simply a card game, and whos the dealer?
      September 23, 2002 2:18 AM BST
  • Has anyone used Suma (as a phytoprogesterone) or Red Clover (as a phytoestrogen)? I'm considering adding these two to my lineup, especially the Red Clover, but I'm still hunting for more information.

    I think I've decided against Saw Palmetto (as a phytoantiandrogen), for now, but the issue is not dead. It seems to have a lot going for it, and I'd love to add an herbal testosterone blocker to my daily routine, but if there's a chance that it will work against the phytoestrogens and/or phytoprogesterones, I'd rather pass on it. The Finasteride will have to do, for the moment. There just aren't many herbal choices in this category, and Finasteride and Spironolactone are very expensive.

    Regarding other popular feminizing (or feminizing-related) herbals, I've found insufficient information for taking any of the following:

    Evening Primrose Oil
    Licorice Root
    Dong Quai
    Coenzyme Q10
    Blue Green Algae

    Some of those are found in women's multi-vitamins in small doses (mine contains 25 mg of Dong Quai per tablet), but I'm not going out of my way to make them part of my routine. If any of you have any good sources to suggest that taking any of these will actually work, please let me know. Also, if you have first hand experience that suggests any of these work, I'd like to know that, too.
      September 23, 2002 2:07 AM BST
  • Hi All,

    One thing I have read and noticed with Saw Palmetto is the increased ejaculate. Your loving spoonful may increase! The DHT blocking effect should help stop development of additional body hair. The ones where you look in the mirror and scream, damn near dislocate a shoulder trying to pluck them too :DD

      September 15, 2002 7:33 PM BST
  • Yes, herbals are very confusing, much more so than prescription hormones. I think it's much easier to understand the latter, though. If I were taking those, my daily dosage might look something like this, depending on a doctor's advice:

    Estradiol = 8 mg

    Natural Progesterone USP = 400 mg
    Dydrogesterone = 20 mg
    Medroxyprogesterone Acetate = 10 mg

    Spironolactone = 200 mg
    Finasteride = 1 mg

    It really depends on what's available in your country, and whether those drugs are sold over-the-counter or by prescription only. Anyway, every time I think I've got a handle on herbals, I read something new that takes me right back to being confused.
      September 15, 2002 10:25 AM BST
  • The more I read about hormones, the more confused I get. Some people suggest that when you increase your estrogen level,that will automatically drop your testerone levels by having shrinking influence on your testes and testerone production. And then some people say, a part of the estrogen may change into testerone. A frightening picture.
    Anyway, I´ll continue with Diane-35 (crypterone + estrogen), which is designed for girls having acne and too many masculine features during their puberty. And that´s where we are, aren´t we?


      September 13, 2002 7:46 AM BST
  • Actually, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is something you really do want to block. As Irene put it, it's one of those "nasty aggresive hormones" that work against your efforts to feminize. Also, it's the main cause of male pattern baldness, and it is also associated with prostate cancer. The very reason I take Propecia is to block DHT. Actually, it reduces the amount of testosterone converted into DHT, as you already mentioned. If you plan to increase your female hormone levels, the levels of male hormones need to be decreased. You can't have two chefs in one kitchen, unless you want a mess. However, unlike Spironolactone (US FDA approved) and Cyproterone Acetate (not US FDA approved), Finasteride is not a general anti-androgen. I might add Saw Palmetto to my herbal routine next month, but I didn't want to start with too much at once. Also, I've read in a couple of places that Saw Palmetto actually increases testosterone in males (contrary to things I've read elsewhere), so I've got to get to the bottom of that before I consider using it.

    Of course, SRS or castration would put that mean old DHT in its place, but there's a bit more commitment involved there than with taking a tablet every day.
      September 13, 2002 6:57 AM BST
  • Kristina, maybe you can find some herbs using these links.

    This one is great for doing searches. .

    These are good, too.,1538,HS,00.html .
      September 10, 2002 5:52 AM BST
  • Rikki, you aren't the only one who's suggested the tincture to me for taking Black Cohosh, but I just don't like those things. I'm more of the capsule type.

    Kristina, I haven't found anything that specifically gives you softer skin, but I would imagine anything that feminizes you in general (Black Cohosh, etc.) will possibly soften the skin to a degree. Maybe some of the other girls know of some herbs that help soften the skin.
      September 10, 2002 3:37 AM BST
  • YOU can get Black Cohosh in a tinture - I used that for a year - before starting chemical hormones - and used 3 ml a day - It's by far the most powerful of the herbals and the tincture is the best way to take it. I did not notice any side effects from taking such large quantities.
    Luv and Huggs Rikki xxx Proud to be Transgender
      September 10, 2002 3:25 AM BST
  • True, but those are problems I won't mind having.
      September 10, 2002 2:50 AM BST

  • Hi Girls,

    Just a little update on the herbal supplements. I'm about 3 months along with the regimen I've been using, mostly black cohosh with B-complex and saw palmetto. The only changes I've noticed is a slight re-distribution of body fat in the hip and chest area. Handy as I can no longer step into some of my clothes. I've got a silver dress that I've had for 2-3 years and have always stepped in and pulleed it up. Well last night I tried it on for the first time in many months and don't you know, it won't go over my butt! Over the head and wriggle it down. The lesson I've learnt from this is to keep accurate body measurements and record them every month.

    Love to all,


    Welcome to womanhood darlin'  - Now you can say with feeling - Does my butt look big in this - I have gained a full size on my butt over the pastsix months - dieting is becomming a serious challenge- But I am going to win.
    Luv and Huggs Rikki xxx Proud to be Transgender
      September 10, 2002 2:42 AM BST