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To Hormone or not to Hormone?

  • The only thing I've learned for certain while doing my research is that using herbals is an inexact science. They work differently for each user, and there aren't enough studies to know exact dosages for the intended results (feminization, preventing cancer, whatever). The main thing I've tried to do is avoid taking anything harmful or any amounts that would be harmful. From everything I've found, Black Cohosh is THE main ingredient for herbal feminization, and I'm probably using the maximum limit.
      September 9, 2002 6:40 PM BST
  • 90

    Many Many thanks for responding in such detail. Your help is much appreciated.

    I am trying:
    Black Cohosh     8 x 40mg
    Wild Yam           2 x 405mg
    Agnus Castus     2 x 400mg
    Saw Palmetto     2 x 400mg
    Vitamin E        400iu
    Primrose Oil     2 x 500mg

    My Black Cohosh dosage is way way under yours and this might be a problem for all UK users as the standard strength available from our best known high street chain (Holland and Barrett) is 40mg.
    50 a day - WOW!

    Thanks again

      September 9, 2002 3:02 PM BST
  • I've never found any information that suggests that Wild Yam is supposed to act as an androgen inhibitor. The only claims (for feminization purposes) are that it contains progesterone, which the body might convert into estrogen. However, I've also found statements like the one below, from

    "Contrary to popular claims, wild yam roots do not contain and are not converted into progesterone or dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) in the body. Pharmaceutical progesterone is made from wild yam using a chemical conversion process. This can lead to confusion—while wild yam can be a source of progesterone, it cannot be used without this pharmaceutical conversion, which cannot be duplicated by the body. Women who require progesterone should consult with their physician and not rely on wild yam supplements."

    Wild Yam supposedly has other non-feminizing health benefits, so it might be good to take, but I'll drop it if I can confirm from some more sources that the body really can't use it to help with estrogen production.

    Regarding Coenzyme Q10, I've never found anything that suggests it helps to feminize the body. However, I did find this from

    "CoQ-10 is an enzyme found in all cells of the body. It occurs naturally, and is the co-factor in the electron transport chain between cells. If is lacking, the body's most important source of cellular energy is depleted, and many medical conditions are aggravated. It is most concentrated in the heart and liver, and is a vital component in the mitochondria, the body's metabolic factories. It is a powerful antioxidant, scavenging free radicals, sitting in the membranes with Vitamin E which it recycles to keep it most active. It has been shown that enhancing the body's CoQ-10 can:

    Reduce many of the serious side effects of cholesterol and other prescription drugs such as adriamycin, beta blockers, and psychiatric drugs; Reduce the effects of aging; Aid in the recovery from a wide range of heart problems including angina pectoris, congestive heart failure and mitral valve prolapse; Reduce blood pressure and blood lipids at 60 mg day; Assist chronic fatigue sufferers when administered at 100 to 300 mg per day; Assist in weight loss by stimulating mitochrondria and thermogenic activity; Treat chronic gum disease; Building a strong immune system as a defense against all forms of disease; May normalize blood sugar levels; and<br>Help maintain a healthy brain."

    For some information on Evening Primrose oil, check this link:

    The research never ends...

      September 9, 2002 4:52 AM BST
  • Here's my daily dosage (I take half in the morning, half in the evening):

    Black Cohosh Root = 2060 mg (four 515 mg capsules)
    Wild Yam = 1000 mg (two 500 mg capsules)
    Vitex Agnus-Castus = 800 mg (two 400 mg capsules)
    Pregnenolone = 30mg (1 capsule)
    Vitamin E = 100 I.U. (as part of a multi-vitamin; two 50 I.U. tablets)
    Finasteride (Propecia) = 1 mg (1 tablet; prescription only)

    Here's a good site to use as a guideline. I've read a few other things that back up what this site says (regarding dosages and which herbs to use), but this is the best one that has everything in one place: Lisbeth's Rose Garden (thanks Rikki).

    I use The Vitamin Shoppe to order most things. I'm using The Vitamin Shoppe brand for the Wild Yam and Pregnenolone, and the Nature's Way brand for the Vitex and Black Cohosh (all four are very inexpensive). Obviously, it's still way too early for me to recommend any brands, but after one weekend, everything's O.K.

    Any good multi-vitamin should take care of the Vitamin E.

    Propecia is expensive, but it's very easy for most males to get a prescription, in order to prevent (hopefully) baldness. The reason I list it here is because finasteride blocks testosterone. I'm taking it anyway, to keep my hair, so I hope it works with the herbal testosterone blockers/androgen inhibitors. I haven't found anything that indicates any danger from taking these together, but I'm always looking. Because of the Propecia, I'm not bothering to take Saw Palmetto (an herbal testosterone blocker), but Vitex, while also an herbal testosterone blocker, is supposed to have other feminizing effects, so I decided to include it. I've used Propecia for over a year, and I haven't noticed any negative side effects, but some males claim they have. Of course, you have to talk to a doctor, but you can get more information at or by running a search for other websites (ther's plenty of good and bad info out there). The following information is from the Rx List website (the Internet drug index).

    "Finasteride, a synthetic 4-azasteroid compound, is a specific inhibitor of steroid Type II 5a-reductase, an intracellular enzyme that converts the androgen testosterone into 5a-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Finasteride is 4-azaandrost-1-ene-17-carboxamide,N-(1,1-dimethylethyl)-3-oxo-,(5a,17b)-. The empirical formula of finasteride is C23H36N2O2 and its molecular weight is 372.55. Finasteride is a white crystalline powder with a melting point near 250°C. It is freely soluble in chloroform and in lower alcohol solvents but is practically insoluble in water. Finasteride tablets for oral administration are film-coated tablets that contain 1 mg of finasteride and the following inactive ingredients: lactose monohydrate, microcrystalline cellulose, pregelatinized starch, sodium starch glycolate, docusate sodium, magnesium stearate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose 2910, hydroxypropyl cellulose, titanium dioxide, talc, yellow ferric oxide, and red ferric oxide."
      September 8, 2002 8:39 PM BST
  • 90
    Hi Melainelee

    I have been trying the Black Cohosh for the last few weeks but guessing the dosage.
    Perhaps Stevie could help us.

    Herbal Hugs
      September 8, 2002 5:59 PM BST
  • After a few years of thinking about it, and a lot of research during the last month or so (and talking to females and trannies), I finally started taking herbals tonight!

    I'm using:

    Black Cohosh Root,
    Wild Yam,
    Vitex, and

    I'm also taking my usual multi-vitamin (which includes 100 IUs of vitamin E per day).

    Plus I'm taking Propecia (1 mg of finasteride per day) and I've been using that for just over a year, now. That serves as the testosterone blocker. It's been only a year, but I haven't noticed any negative side effects.
      September 7, 2002 6:59 AM BST
  • Yes, I suppose that does qualify as "life or death."
      August 18, 2002 8:10 AM BST

  • Sometimes there's just no backing out.......Especially if she's wearing the same dress!
      August 17, 2002 7:15 PM BST
  • Fortunately, I've been able to avoid bar fights (I'm not messing up my nail polish unless it's a life or death situation).
      August 17, 2002 5:31 AM BST

  • Yeah, they're what make you handy in a bar fight, rugby scrum etc.
      August 16, 2002 8:57 PM BST
  • "nasty aggressive hormones"
      August 16, 2002 3:04 AM BST
  • 5 days and you're calm and serene.....
    Nice, but the mood swings will start honey. Sometimes you'll cry for no reason. Sometimes you'll just make others cry!
    As your body makes more male hormones to compenstae for the excess female ones. This is why doctors prescribe an anti-testerone. To modify the build up of the nasty aggresive hormones......
    Let us know...
      August 15, 2002 9:41 PM BST
  • I´m on my fifth day on swiss natural estrogens and I never felt so relaxed and happy in my life. This is the path I want to go, wherever it will lead me...


      August 12, 2002 10:48 AM BST
  • Thank you for the links! I took a quick peek at those sites, and I'll study them later tonight. So, Rikki, your hips really showed that much progress after 18 months? Those are encouraging results. It's amazing, how much there is to learn about this...
      August 11, 2002 11:17 PM BST
  • I started on a very intense herbal regime about 18 months ago - then added chemical horomones about a year ago and have been taking them without medical supervision for year.  However I did do a bit of research. - is the best advice I have found on herbals - I followed her recommendations almost exactly - achieve quite a lot of development - about an A cup - though I was a bit overweight anyway - it was enough that my exgirl friend noticed it and commented after 6 months. - This is the best advise on Hormones - Ann Lawrence is a TS medical practitioner - I am using Estraderm TTS100 patches - I was taking Spironolactone - but have stopped for a while -

    I will be getting medical supervision shortly - I have been on this long enough now that I have permenent and noticeable changes - I shall not be able to go topless again - I still get erections still have an active monosex life - But I never had a big sex drive anyway and definately a more female approach to sex than a male one.

    My hips are now quite a lot bigger, and my breasts are a good AA to B - Enough that I now use a Gel Bra or an ordinarly bra with Chicken fillets - I don't need full breast forms any more - infact that are difficult to use because of my own development.

    Luv and Huggs Rikki xxx Proud to be Transgender
      August 11, 2002 11:01 PM BST
  • As I've said before, I've got a lot of homework to do, but I appreciate hearing about the experiences the rest of you have had with herbals. It sounds as though herbals are not the way to go if you've made up your mind to have permanent changes, and that you'd be better off putting your money into real hormones. Is that an accurate conclusion on my part? I have yet to make that determination for myself, so herbals might be fine, for me.

    Black Cohosh has been recommended to me from several sources. So, Irene, did the Black Cohosh alone lower your sex drive (your post of 10/31/2001) or were you using other things at the time?
      August 11, 2002 5:57 PM BST

  • I started this post about a year ago, when I'd first started experimenting.
    After all the herbals I've tried and used for the year.....hardly any change at all!
    I think your body starts to build up defences against the herbals and stops the effects.
    Not that I want to change anyway, well not completely just sometimes!
      August 11, 2002 2:53 PM BST

  • We as trannys are a niche market, this means we get to pay over the odds for loads of stuff. The tranny chain store was the first to start ripping us off for products that are mostly un-tested, and of dubious quality.
    If you have a dark beard check out laser hair removal, if you're's the superhot needles for you....

      July 14, 2002 3:19 PM BST
  • so you sayin that the place with the manchester head office sells placebos (good group by the way) cos if they do, they not being true to themselves and should burn in the fires of hell. (gothic sentiment is not my strongpoint, but the look? mmmm maybe?) anyway, is the only option electrolysis??? and prescription hormones or what. loads of people are confused, and lots find it hard to pay for stuff. maybe there is a solution somewhere we can all embrace, and make our own, and then again maybe the system is simply in place to take our momey, all of it if they can, and then tell us that we are outcast after theyve taken it all away. i love to rant when i in the right frame of mind (sober). i'll stop this monologue for now...
      July 13, 2002 9:35 PM BST
  • As to that question, herbals and breast pump, Maybe!
    Breast cream, would that be the stuff bought at a famous tranny chain store? If yes then no! The products they sell, are completely bogus. The hormone bubble bath makes me laugh the most. Stephanie Anne Loyld should be ashamed of herself..........

      July 12, 2002 11:49 PM BST

  • Does anyone have an idear what the most inexpensive way to enhance my breasts and still have male erections?Can I use a breast pump,breast cream and herbals?
    let me know when you have the answer... ;)
      July 11, 2002 11:37 PM BST

  • Does anyone have an idear what the most inexpensive way to enhance my breasts and still have male erections?Can I use a breast pump,breast cream and herbals?
    if you fid out let me know.
      July 11, 2002 11:14 PM BST
  • Hi Jolyn,

    Sadly this may be down to your own development. Most women have one breast slightly smaller than the other. Just as your feet and hands may have slight differences in size. Most of the girls I've know find that the hormones don't give them the breast size they've always wanted and take the augmentation route after a few years of hormone therapy.
    During the procedure any little size differences can be altered for that balanced appearance.


      July 11, 2002 10:36 PM BST
  • Don't know about the rest but I have been using something called Remifemin which contains Black Cohash and I can get it from my Chemist without a perscription. One tablet contains 20mg and I'm not sure how much I am supposed to take to I take 20 of them a day making it 400mg.
    Development was fast initially and I can fill out an A cup easily and don't look too bad in a B cup, with a thin sock  ;D I also made my own breast pump which is quite a novelty to use, spend ages pumping   :P
    I also found a site where I can order premarin without a perscription, considering taking that too.
      July 11, 2002 8:39 PM BST
  • Hi Becky,

    While I understand what you're on about, we've wandered alittle off the subject.

    Men are only good for 2 things and 1 is lawn maintenance!

    See a therapist that is familiar with transexulism and gender dysphoria. Speak about that first, otherwise you'll be fobbed off as just another repressed sausage jockey.
    If you mention sex at all in the first few interviews he'll diagnose you there and then.
    Beware of the crack pots and find reputable assisitance.

    Take care of yourself,

      July 8, 2002 10:21 PM BST