Hi katie,

Great idea for a topic. Sometimes passing is not the desired thing.
I once went into a busy shopping mall, in Cape Town, on a sunday morning. Tina Turner fright wig, black knee boots, made up to the nines, black mini skirt, white lace blouse and chunky silver jewelery. I got read by everybody and his dog......
The one time I didn't get read was in a very exclusive store and one of the ladies in there called me slut. I was holding a dress in front of my while looking in the morror. Dancing along with their best of kenny G cd (lol)
I was refused entrance to the change rooms in another store, teenagers laughed, grown men growled and children stared wide eyed.
I was with another 6'2 tranny friend of mine, we went for lunch in a small bisto. The place sure emptied out.

The point is after doing that I do know that to pass, you have to dress down. The women out that sunday were in track suits(yuck) or the jeans and t-shirt ensemble.

I should also point out that trannys are not a common sight in Cape Town unless selling their wares on the streets of Green Point!

My tip for passing in public without dressing down, during the week when all the rest are at work, upmarket places, nice suit with simple make-up and jewellery. Fairly low heels maybe add a briefcase type handbag favoured by the office working ladies.
You really want to pass trouser suit, less and less women wear skirts these days. 10 women walk in a bar, only one wears a skirt who are people looking at?

Of course, maybe attention is just what we're after....

Love

Irene

I was in Sainsbury's, shopping with my wife the other evening, dressed in drab and looking fairly masculine.  I hadn't shaved and there was a distinct aroma of testosterone about my person.  It had been a long day.

We got to the checkout and were waiting to be served when a woman joined the queue behind us.  I noticed her straight away because she seemed to be dressed in quite a sexy way, ready for a nightclub, not Sainsbury's.  Her  hair also seemed unaturaturally black.

Curious, I looked a little closer and was convinced it was a wig.

That made me even more curious so, trying not to stare, I glanced a little closer and saw that she was wearing an awful lot of make-up.  I was already having my suspicions when I noticed the protruding Adam's Apple and that was it - she had been read!

All of the above happened in a split second.  My initial reaction was to think, my god she's brave.

She looked at me as if she was thinking, "Hell, he's sussed me".

Of course, she would have had no idea that the person right in front of her was one of the campest, girlyest trannies on the planet!

The reason I am posting this here, is because I think it's a good example of how not too pass.

She had probably gone to a great deal of trouble to look as lovely as possible, and that was the reason she was read.

Women just don't dress up to go to the supermarket so this little lady stuck out like a sore thumb.  Had she dressed down in say, jeans and a sweatshirt, and had a slightly more convincing wig, I'm sure that nobody out have looked at her twice.

Perhaps that's the problem.  Maybe she wanted to be looked at.  I know I always do.  Trouble is, real girls don't (or at least not in the supermarket) and that makes us different.

Why would we want to wear jeans and a sweatshirt?  That would defeat the object of being a tranny - we're supposed to wear dresses and skirts!

Just a few thoughts to get the ball rolling.

What do you think?

Katie  :)

I love spotting other TVs, simply because it makes me realize that I'm not the only one. I don't have any TV friends locally, so it brightens my day to see a "sister" out there. I've never approached anyone I've read, though, because that might damage the confidence that's often so difficult to build. Besides, I think we are better at reading than non-TVs, so there's probably no reason to feel paranoid if another TV reads you.

By the way Katie, I did well on your "Female or Shemale" test. I didn't get all 16, but I came close. Sometimes, you really can't tell.

Come to the U.S.  Women look a mess here too... I guess it is our British heritage.  My experience, however, is limited to the western states, where people are generally more casual.  Maybe women take better care of their appearance back east.  So far, I haven't had any problems in public, and I haven't exactly perfected my look.

Heather H.

Yeah I guess this is the reverse of knowing that you pass.
But besides my swimsuit thing in my other post I get alot
of this.  I guess you know you don't pass when a principal
of a school asks you to use a dressing/shower room off
from the other women not to cause confusion and disruption
for the other women.  I also get that all the time when I
go for jobs in not being able to use the women's restroom
with the the women I work with.  I know it sounds like a
broken record and I'm sure getting tired of it.
Randi

Hi all!

Sometimes, part of passing is how you look. I certainly wouldn't go to the mall in a diaphonous gown and "Tammy Faye" makeup any more than I would go there in a Chicago Bears jersey, cleats and shoulderpads. Why call undue attention to oneself?  ???

But to me, passing is more than dressing appropriately for where you are going, though that helps. It is how you comport yourself...in other words, part of it is really how you act.

You can dress up, dress down, or dress for success...but if you react to things like you are a man in drag, it doesn't matter what you wear...you'll get read for sure. Trust me...been there, done that, have blouse and battle scars to prove it.

By the way, Heather...we gals in the midwest can be as sloppy as we want to be. It isn't just a west coast thing...I grew up near San Francisco, CA., and have lived in Chicago, IL. and now Evansville, IN...and sometimes, even in t-shirt and jeans, I look better than the GG's do. And it's NOT intentional!  :D

Luv 'n hugs to all--

Lady Jayne  :)
"Almost-Angel, T-Girl Genius, and Ultra Flirt"

I wear skirts and dresses 99% of the time (I much prefer one-piece dresses), but I do have one pair of jeans, which I bought several years ago (I had always wanted a pair of jeans with no back pockets! - LOL). I've only worn them outside a few times, though.

Well it all depends what you mean by "passing". As Sue has said, and experienced, the ultimate would be to remain undetected throughout social exchanges (Grade 1?) and most of us are unlikely to know that, not least because the voice is a dead giveaway.

But for me and, I guess, many others, passing is about being able to walk in the streets and not get read (Grade 2?). At 6'2" and 17 stone I thought even that would be impossible for me but it's not. I'm now quite comfortable walking about quiet shopping streets (although not the hustle of main streets and Malls) and I reckon only about 1% of people have a "jaw-dropping" moment with me. The rest seem to accept me for what I appear to be or don't care.

My secret? A magic coat and a smile. The magic coat I bought from Long Tall Sally, it fits really well and its ankle length. As a friend said "it covers a multitude of sins", but its my variation on dressing down (although it's a bugger in the summer). The smile helps when people glance at you and make eye contact, whether it just confirms human contact or deflects criticism I don't know.

A smile, however, can be a two-edged sword. I was walking along the sea-front one day and there was a middle aged woman walking towards me. As she neared she smiled at me and I smiled back. As she was about to pass she said something like "cold isn't it". Carried away I attempted an answer but in that instant she knew and her expression changed. It's an absolutely clear example that I had passed at the grade 2 level.

Funnily enough I don't think the look on her face was disgust, I think it was disappointment. It was as if we were about to share a moment of feminine intimacy and I had let her down. It quite ruined my day, I can cope with disgust but letting somebody down was a different matter.

Best wishes

Sarah

For me to pass and not to be read is really very important. And I don´t even like the exaggeration of my feminism. So, I prefer the normal finnish ladies´style, which is much running around in jeans, and would be okay in a local supermarket. But I love also long skirts, for other occasions.

Hugs

Laura

When I go out, I usually dress down.  It is not necessary, however, to wear the boring jeans and t-shirt.  I have some capri pants and some casual skirts (most of them ankle length) which are not out of the ordinary for women to wear but are still quite feminine.  I wear a wig which is a very natural-looking color.  The only problem is that I have to wear more makeup than I would otherwise prefer to cover up my beard stubble.  If I didn't cover that up, I would look like a bearded lady and would be read instantly.  I suppose that until I get that nasty beard permanently removed, I will always be at risk of being read.

If I want to dress up and still go out, I pick the appropriate time and place.  I work at a place that has a 9/80 schedule (9-hour days, every other Friday off), so on Fridays that I don't work, I can go out dressed up.  In downtown Salt Lake, on a weekday during the day, there are always a lot of women dressed in typical "office/professional" clothing, which I happen to find comfortable and enjoy wearing (women's professional clothing only - definitely NOT men's; I HATE suits and ties).  Another day to dress up a little is Sunday.  Where I live, church attendance is rather high (way too high for my taste), but for me the good thing about this is that it is not at all unusual to see women on Sunday wearing nice skirts and dresses, so I can go out in some of my favorite outfits and not look out of place.  I happen to prefer modest, conservative outfits over the slut look, so this works well for me.  On the rare occasions that I want to look like a slut, I stay home.  About the only place where it is appropriate to look like a slut is a bar, and I hate bars.  The only other place to look like a slut and fit in would be to walk down the street in the bad part of town.  You know what I am getting at here, and it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I guess it is important to fit in wherever you are.  If you think about it a little, you will find that there are appropriate times and places in your community to wear those fancy skirts and dresses; otherwise stick to the casual stuff.  I have plenty of ideas for myself, and I will try them out as soon as the weather gets better.  The high temperature here has been 104 F/40 C lately; if I go out in that furnace, my makeup will melt!  I HATE SUMMER.

I hope this helps.

Love,

Heather H.

Hi girls

I tend to agree that we would find it easier to read other trannys, after all we know what to look for, but I must be walking round with my eyes closed because I think I've only ever seen one out in the street.

Time to get my eyes tested again, ho hum.

Best wishes

Sarah

Been there,done that,from both sides! But only bought one T-shirt.Don't we all,when starting out,go over the top,and then wonder why we are read? I know not everyone is going as far as I am,but the same rules apply.If you are to pass,you have to dress appropriately, and that usually means dessing 'down'.My wardrobe went from 'teenage night out' to 'middle aged mum' over the three years of transition,and now consists of two-three pairs of trousers or jeans to each skirt,tops in the aame ratio.Underwear is practical,for want of a better word! Yes,I do have a 'posh frock'plus fancy unmentionables etc,but for occasions.
A lot of passing comes from within,how you move and speak and so on,and the best way to learn is by observation.My best effort was last summer,at a swimming pool,on a campsite,in a costume.Until I mentioned my ex,then her name within the space of a few minutes,the woman I was talking to had no idea.And I am 5'7",180lbs and have had no formal voice training.Very good for the ego.
Sorry for going on for so long,but it has become a pet subject,and from a shy guy,I can now talk the hind leg off a donkey! Well,we are supposed to,aren't we?
Hugs to all,
Sue.X