He's Barack and I'm Proud

    • 1195 posts
    November 7, 2008 3:20 PM GMT
    Thanks Nikki - this site has become a "battle-ground" and there have been some "personal" statements - we don't need it.
    thanks again.
    hugs
    Gracie
    • 2573 posts
    November 5, 2008 8:07 AM GMT
    Today I am proud of my country and it's citizens.

    In an election, with voter turnouts that haven't been seen since 1920 (when women were given the vote), American's were moved to take responsibility for their government once again. They voted to force an end to the foolish, Republican war in Iraq. They voted to end insane fiscal policies. They voted for an African-American man to be President.

    When I was born, "negroes", "colored people" could not vote....they couldn't even drink out of the same water fountain in some places. they had to ride the back of buses and give up their seats for a white person, black men were murdered for looking at a white woman. They could not use public restrooms. In my teens, a trip to the South was fraught with "White Only" signs on businesses, even laundromats. Today the daughter of black slaves voted for the first black President of the United States. Today the majority of white Americans voted for the first black President of the United States...because they felt he was the best man for the job.

    I am sad that a number of anti-GLBT propositions passed, making same-sex marriage unconstitutional in more states. I'm ashamed that some people are still treated the way other groups were regarding marriage.....black, Chinese, etc. in the past. These laws are an Abomination in modern America. They deny equal rights to select groups and they deny them based on religious belief.....the primary reason people came to America in the first place....Freedom to Worship as you believed was right. They understood the danger of a "State Religion" and knew no one belief system should be allowed to dominate the New World. Yet, here we are, hundreds of years later, doing exactly that. I'm ashamed that the people who should most understand the injustice of discrimination, on the eve of such a monumental moment of non-discrimination, would vote for such measures.

    I have hope. I see that a day will come where our "Dream" will happen. Where we all have full rights. Where even a GLBT person will be able to be President. It will come. It may be 100 years, but it will come because WE have a Dream as well. Today they may mock us, discriminate against us, have effectively "No Transpeople" signs on rest room doors, deny us jobs, marriage, proper health care. Today we may be Gender-Niggers. It will take time and sacrifice and social change....but one day we will be free to be as THEIR God made us in his omnipotence and omniscience, just as he made black people, brown, yellow, red and white; men and women and ....yes trans-people. It's happening. Our numbers are small and most of us are stealthy. That will change as some of our brothers and sisters have the courage to ride on the front of the bus, use the bathrooms, and insist on their rights. I am proud of you too. Perhaps the latest generation, which goes to school openly trans, will begin to push back the barriers in numbers too great to ignore, chanting "I TOO am Woman"..."I TOO am Man". "I am Trans and Proud". I know that what changed my ignorance was finding that my friends were gay and lesbian. It's hard to discriminate against a Person. Once it is personal, it's different. Those of you who are Out are right. It is The Way. Who could hate a Lucy or Lilliene or Katie or Anna-Marie or Maryanne or Mariette the way they hate "trannys". When we become People to them, we will overcome the prejudices (except for the die hard ignorant, of course) and take our deserved place in mainstream society. Perhaps one day this country will see it's first Trans-Woman President. After all, we bring a special ability to think "outside the box" to the job.

    Remember, inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth.
    • 2017 posts
    November 5, 2008 8:33 AM GMT
    What an historic acheivement not only for Obama, but for the US and the Western world in general. It's not that long ago that a coloured person was fighting for their right to sit where they wanted to on a bus, or have a choice in which school to attend. Now they have made it to probably the most powerful position on the planet. I'm ecstatic. The world will be watching and waiting now to see what kind of job he can make of it.

    I also believe you are right Wendy in that one day, we will be seen as equals with no need to feel shunned or ridiculed by the public any longer.

    Nikki

    • 404 posts
    November 5, 2008 1:28 PM GMT
    Welcome to the USSA -The United States of Socialist America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ciao,

    Lynn H.
    • 1195 posts
    November 5, 2008 2:50 PM GMT
    Lynn - sorry you missed the point.

    Wendy - I've got you beat by a few years. I grew up in NYC and never saw the wholescale discrimination that was going on until I went to Florida. I was shocked about the bus seating and the drinking fountains...it was laughable. How rediculous. I came to Texas(the first time) and found the same nonsence plus that pole tax business. Well, it took years to chop away that BS and finally we broken the barrier for electing a president.

    As to the question of why the new president isn't sworn in until January- we don't have revolutions - we have elections. The time interval gives the new administration time to get its "duck" in a row.

    hugs
    Gracie
    • 1912 posts
    November 5, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
    Obama was not my choice, but nor was I a fan of McCain. However I do honor the position of President and wish Obama the best. The economics of the world is in hardtimes right now and I don't think you can blame any one person, party or even country for what is going on. I hope if anything, this will help unite the world so we can all work together to get out of the current troubled times we are in.

    Lynn was possibly right about the USSA comment other than it should maybe be NUSSA for Non United Socialist States of America. Yes Obama won the majority of votes outright, but it was 52% to 48% and each won nearly half of the states. Hardly a mandate.

    Wendy brought up the Iraq war. I'm not sure what kind of news they get in California but maybe someone needs to let the people of CA. know that the Iraq war is already winding down. Also California became another one of the states to define marriage as between a man and a woman only. So much for ultra liberal CA. Personally I am against same-sex marriage. However I do believe in civil unions with all the rights of a marriage.

    I also don't see it as a big deal that we now have a black president. I think America has been ready to vote for a black or even a woman for years if the right candidate came along. Linking race as having anything to do with being president takes away from the qualities that caused him to be elected. I think people just like being victims and feeling sorry for themselves, always looking for an excuse to say why something didn't go their way.

    Hugs,
    Marsha


    • 89 posts
    November 5, 2008 5:15 PM GMT
    When I started the thread Just a word for him on the birthday of USA, I got some mixed response. Today I am happy to note that the first person representing a minority has been elected to the most powerful office in the World. When I made that post, I had a dream, too. The dream was same as yours, Wendy:

    I have hope. I see that a day will come where our "Dream" will happen. Where we all have full rights. Where even a GLBT person will be able to be President. It will come. It may be 100 years, but it will come because WE have a Dream as well.


    Maybe it will not take 100 years to happen, Wendy. How about eight years? Let us just allow president Obama to serve his two terms and go for it right then.

    Yes we can!
    • 1912 posts
    November 5, 2008 7:25 PM GMT
    No, Obama is not like Moses, Obama is only a man with a vision. Vision and action can be two different things, time will tell. I'm not thrilled with what Bush has done but after 9/11 I think everything changed and I am glad it was Bush, not Gore or Kerry as our president. The financial collapse had nothing to do with Bush, it was a long time coming and it came because of greed around the world. The enormous increase in oil prices helped expose the problems in the financial sector and initially showed up in the United States. As many around the world thought that it was just the U.S. getting what it was due, things then collapsed around the world exposing the same greed. So simply put, it is a world problem, not a Bush problem, not a U.S. problem. Medvedev along with Putin in Russia also put all there eggs in one basket going after the oil suppy in their region. Now oil prices have drastically fallen and the Russian economy is hurting with the rest of us. Russia is no friend of the U.S. so what they have to say is taken with a grain of salt. A strong U.S. economy can only be good for the world.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
    • 27 posts
    November 6, 2008 4:57 AM GMT
    Wendy i loved what you wrote, I think it will be a interesting time for the US.
    And Marsha is quite right 48% to 52% shows the true picture of how America voted. I for one would think the term Landslide victory the media has used, is not justified.
    America is a great country, and when it returns to a strong economy, based on manufacturing. Maybe the western world will follow. Losing jobs to 3rd world countries may help there economy but it dosent put the crust on the table back home...
    Jane
    • 404 posts
    November 6, 2008 1:53 PM GMT
    No, Mary, I'm just having a little dig at those of you in the USA who seem to regard Barack Obama as a resurrected Karl Marx bent on introducing soviet-style socialism and who consequently considered him unelectable. That's all.lol

    Have a nice day

    Lynn H.
    • 1195 posts
    November 6, 2008 2:30 PM GMT
    Lynn - I don't argue
    Gracie
    • 734 posts
    November 7, 2008 1:20 AM GMT
    Hi all, call me light and fluffy but thats just the way I am! Here's my view, it's a copy of a post I made elsewhere but saves me re-typing... [it was a spiritualist site, just to put some of my contentions in perspective].

    "Change is a continual thing. But big change has been in the air for a long time. Messages from the next life have repeatedly said things cannot go on the way they are. Rampant materialism and a devil may care attitude to the environment have to be checked.

    I do believe that this is the start of real big change. Things are not going to be the same again. Certainly, things may get tougher before they get better. But the omens are good.

    The near collapse of the banking system was caused by greed. The greed of fund managers and the financial sector in general. The era of 'greed is good' is slowly coming to a halt.

    I don't feel that this, coming as Barack Obama is in the ascendancy, is a coincidence.

    He may be the first black President. But that is the smallest part of him. Barack Obama is much more than that.

    Here is a man with a natural ability to unite and inspire.

    Never have I witnessed a worldwide reaction of such positiveness to an American President in waiting.

    Earlier this year 200,000 people turned up to hear him speak in Berlin. The French President feted him like a head of state. The King of Jordan personally drove him back to the airport after a meeting.

    After the election Kenya declared a national holiday in his honour, in Sierra Leone new born babies are named after him. In the carribean, an island's mountain is renamed after him. The President in Somalia states that Barack is a man he can talk to. As do Hamas.

    He is a man who's intelligence and charisma has swept a hope of change throughout the world.

    Not bad from a man who has come out of nowhere.

    In one single night, he has given every citizen in the world hope.

    Rae x "
    • 27 posts
    November 7, 2008 4:55 AM GMT
    Hmm Politics is such a interesting thing, a lot like religion. its all a matter of where you stand and what you want to see!!

    Obama is just a man! very eloquent he may be, He is the leader of a political party, and will answer to the will of the party elders, And they in turn will be looking to keep the right happy within there own rank and file.
    A lot can happen in 4 years, But with the amount being shelled out to try and fix the financial mess, the war and the fact America was already in the hole, to what was it ! a couple of Trillion Dollars ?? And wait a minute was it not the Banks that helped that part of the problem along also, way before the present crisis. .Soooo if the tax payer has to bail out the mess!! sound like socialism to me. If Obama can do much in his first term, I think we should call him "Moses" or what ever "prophet" you subscribe too.
    As for the political correctness of African American, give me a break. Yes its significant that a person of colour is in the Whitehouse... But this label thing!! Is he not a American plain and simple...( i don't mean to imply that Americans are either plain or simple) In England are you Irish English, No. But you can be a anything American ??? Sorry but I just have a problem with labels ..

    Jane x

  • November 7, 2008 7:05 AM GMT
    Hi All,
    1st of all, as a minority it is great to have the top job in the US now accessible to anyone who really aspires to that office.

    I ask that those who believe in a higher power - pray for Barack Obama, as he has many challenges ahead ---

    Please Grant Barack the wisdom to govern according to your will,
    the strength to resists those who would try to deter you,
    and a peaceful spirit in all his decisions.

    Hopefully, we (the US) can return to normal relationships with the world community.

    Best Regards,
    MichelleLynn


  • November 7, 2008 8:37 AM GMT
    Marsha Ann, I really feel sorry for you for NOT KEEPING YOUR MIND W I D E OPEN . You lady are really CLUELESS ABOUT the U.S. and NO CALIFORNIA IS NOT ultra-liberal as you so sweetly put it. I know you been using this site for a long time but SOMEONE HAS TO SPEAK OUT TO YOU. You really should take to heart with some of what other girls here are saying to you...........Sincerely, ~~Miss Lynn~~ PS What do you really know about 9/11 anyway?
    • 404 posts
    November 7, 2008 1:15 PM GMT
    There's a rumour going 'round that,on Jan. 20th 2009,The White House will be renamed The Black House..................

    cheers,
    Lynn H.
    • 2017 posts
    November 7, 2008 1:21 PM GMT
    Can I just remind everyone that the object of this thread is to discuss the recent US election. You are free to voice any opinion regarding that as you wish but do not start name calling or attacking the individual making the comment. Argue against the point made and put your own views across but fighting in the public forums is detrimental to the site.

    There are some good points here, lets keep it flowing please.

    Thankyou all.

    Nikki
    • 734 posts
    November 8, 2008 12:40 AM GMT
    Nikki, I appreciate what you have said about keeping this thread in line. I would deeply appreciate the indulgence of responding to Betty's reply to my post and, hopefully, clarify things a little for her. I don't believe for one second that she meant to infer that I was being rascist but it is certainly an inference that others could mistakenly interpret. I would also ask that nobody replies to this post so as not to spoil what is otherwise a nice thread. Likewise, if you feel you would rather delete this than I would understand.

    Betty, hunni. Please click on the link I am providing. It will take you to my sister's myspace site. There are plenty of pictures of her there and, perhaps, it will help to place my language usage in context.

    My use of the word 'black' is quite acceptable. It is illustrative and certainly not derogatory. Whilst it is the term used throughout the press and media to describe Barak Obama, it is also a term widely used in my sister's household and within the black community. My sister, for one, finds it much more acceptable than 'coloured' or the even worse ' person of colour'. And I concur.

    It is, of course, a little inaccurate. Barack Obama is of mixed race. Whilst his father is African - and you'll just have to take my word for this as I've forgotten the exact definition - he is'nt exactly African American as African Americans define it.

    I can only assume that you see the description of 'black' as being offensive. I'm sorry if that is so. Please rest assured thats not the intended case.

    http://www.myspace.com/mebabubble

    Much love

    Rae xx
    • 1912 posts
    November 8, 2008 2:53 PM GMT
    MissiLynn obviously you haven't read through this forum because you missed what I said earlier so I will be glad to repeat it just for you.
    Obama was not my choice, but nor was I a fan of McCain. However I do honor the position of President and wish Obama the best. The economics of the world is in hardtimes right now and I don't think you can blame any one person, party or even country for what is going on. I hope if anything, this will help unite the world so we can all work together to get out of the current troubled times we are in.

    Unlike the Bush haters who started the hate Bush stuff before he even took office and continued on for the past 8yrs blaming him for everything including the weather, I can support any president and I will give credit where credit is due. And I am glad to see you are one of those 9/11 conspiracy theory people out there. It just took away any credibility you may have had.

    I will be praying for you.
    Hugs,
    Marsha

    • 404 posts
    November 8, 2008 2:56 PM GMT
    ......I just hope that Barack Obama will be able to find advisors and ministers who do not see the world through ideological blinkers and star-spangled spectacles but rather as it actually is. Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld and co. have,for example ,thanks to their blinkers and star-spangled specs ,done a wonderful recruiting job for islamic fundamentalists. A severe case of selective deafness when it comes to dealing with all those lobby groups you've got might also prove to be a useful asset.

    Have a nice day...........

    Lynn H.
  • November 8, 2008 6:45 PM GMT
    I for one am looking forward to see what Obama actually does when he takes up office in January. The election campaign showed that he was left of centre on taxation - certainly much more than we are in the UK. Will he have a liberal agenda on social matters too? He knows what it's like to be in a minority (as an African-American) so maybe he will appreciate what it is like for those of us in the LGBT minority.
  • November 9, 2008 5:33 AM GMT
    Hi Marsha Ann, PLEASE DO NOT PRAY FOR ME, and on top of that, I forgive for your transgressions, LOL,LOL no really I hold NO bad feelings about your political aspirations as a CONSERVATIVE...... Love you Always, Missi Lynn BTW- GO BARACK & YES, I VOTED NO ON PROP.8
    • 2573 posts
    November 12, 2008 5:56 AM GMT
    I would like to clarify, here, my initial post in this thread.

    "Today I am proud of my country and it's citizens." This was my primary point. I have been disappointed with both about many things in recent years. November 4th, 2008 removed much of that. because so many voted. It was not just who or what they voted for but that they cared enough to vote. When a nation wields as much power as it does, it is our duty to actively see that the power is not used in a way that we find immoral and irresponsible. I would have been just as proud of those who voted had the outcome of the election been different.

    I have no problem with the use of the term "black" to describe "African-Americans", though not all blacks are directly African for a number of generations and some are from places like Australia. If you wonder why a man who is only half or less black genetically is called black is because for a long time, in the United States, if you had ANY black ancestry you were considered black, not white, even if your skin was quite passably white. This is seen today in the way in which post-operative TS MtF are called Transwomen, not women, by many, including our community. Now if I'm 1/16th Scot and 7/16 English and 8/16 Slavic (for example)......even though my Norman English blood is CLEARLY dominant....I can call myself Anglo-Slovakian American, but what if I was to call myself a Scot based on the belief that my Celtic blood is dominant? Who is to say that is right or wrong? It's the same as saying one is black if they are any part black. I do not judge this, I simply point it out. Now the parents and grand parents of many African-Americans asked, no demanded, I call them black, and I do so to this day to honor their request. In Obama's case, he IS African-"American" in a very real sense.. Now, had I had no other reason to vote for either candidate I would have voted the race card. If I had no preference for who could best perform the job, I would have settled for the great good that having a black President of the United States would have done. The good of removing pain and anger that goes back to my teens when my beliefs in American Constitutional rights were shaken. The good in a symbolic gesture, with real power behind it, that would help remove some of the damage done and still being done today to 10% of Americans.. When a black man is President of the most powerful country in the world it has to be easier to say to oneself that no matter how I have been treated, I have the RIGHT to expect and demand equality while others may say.....perhaps I need to rethink my views on treatment of minorities. That ALONE would be worth electing Obama if it was the only difference between two candidates. Symbols have GREAT power in the minds of humans. Power far beyond the reality of the symbol. If it's wrong to violate the rights of 10% of the population on their race, then is it also wrong to violate the rights of 10% of the population based on their sexual preference. Both are biological and if there is a God, His Will if he is Omniscient and Omnipotent. Perhaps people will rethink, or even think for the first time. None of us are Free unless ALL of us are Free. If you think that Obama's election is not significant to every black citizen of the United States....go out and ask them.if they think there is not at least SOME significance to their life in the future. Ask American women if the election of Hillary or Sarah would not have been significant to them. It's not that it COULD happen, it DID happen. It's real. It's undeniable proof that the written law of racial equality can no longer be treated as a symbol, but as substance. To me it's proof that my friends cannot be ever again treated to WHITE ONLY on the door of a laundromat as if somehow their clothes would contaminate the clothes of others. To them it must be proof that, recidivists aside, their skin color or genetic history cannot be a barrier to any job they qualify for. Hope is not a little thing. Hope is everything. Perhaps the symbolism of President Obama is the difference between TG folk gaining their rights in 100 yrs or only 50 ...or 20 yrs. Although they did it less than 50 yrs ago in America, would the average voter who voted against same sex marriage be willing to publicly say "The Bible says the sons and daughters of Cain bear his mark and are not worthy of the rights of white people" or "African's aren't human so they don't have human rights".? I don't think so. Yet arguments against equality for various groups have been based on Christian Scripture for centuries....and eventually yielded.

    There is nothing false about the view of CA being liberal. This state's voting on Proposition Hatewas affected by out-of-state religious groups infusing massive amounts of money out of fear that if same-sex marriage was approved in CA, the other states would fall like dominoes. An abominable, deceitful, lying campaign was carried out to scare voters into denying a minority their equal rights. No Church was going to be forced to marry same-sex couples. That's the choice of that Church. But they feared that the country would see the truth and grant those rights to ALL Americans. So they poured tax-free money into CA to tell their "Christian" lies (Thou shalt not bear false witness). hypocrisy and sin all rolled into one. ("What profiteth a man if he gaineth the whole world and loseth his soul?") But it really does not matter. Ultimately, as did the racist filth of the past, they will lose. My faith in America is restored and it is only a matter of time. Next time, we will not be distracted by the Presidential Election. Next time we will focus and pour money from across the nation into CA. Perhaps we will also remove the tax-free status from the income of Churches who interfere with politics as a lobby rather than merely preaching their beliefs. One day it will fall. When one state falls, the others will fall in turn. Those who oppose it will have to live with the same shame and scarlet letter that the racists of the last century and today must share. Ignorant. Un-American. The people who make America stand second-place to the EU in Freedoms of substance, not theory. History shows that eventually ignorance fails. Enjoy your win while you have it. We are not giving up either. We will never give up. Eventually the oppressors lose because the oppressed overthrow them. We, not you, have the moral high ground. We are no longer sad and frustrated....we are now Angry. Perhaps you missed it but a New Age in America started last week and your "victory" was really your political, Death Knell. Remember today when Christmas is no longer a National holiday but only a religious one. It won't happen? Where are the Xmas trees, of ten years ago, in schools and public squares? Think long and hard about what you have wrought.

    I believe The Pink House is the Presidential Palace in Buenos Aires. Now, unless you lot want to have to sail down their AGAIN, best be careful not to irritate those chaps.
































    ]
    • 1912 posts
    November 12, 2008 12:47 PM GMT
    And next to preach from the pulpit is..............................................................., lol
    • 27 posts
    November 13, 2008 6:04 AM GMT
    Wendy I can see this is a very personal issue, I stand by what i said. Any person Male, Femail, Black White ,Yellow and anywhere in between gets respect for what they say, do and how they behave. Not the label they or someone else puts on them.
    I hope that Obama will show a quality of leadership that the World and America will be proud of. But only time will tell that tale.
    Not sure what the last part was about, but the Brits did go down south and do what the American Navy said could not be done????
    • 2573 posts
    November 22, 2008 8:54 AM GMT
    Betty,

    Four years ago, the election was stolen by the Republicans in Florida whose governor happens to be a close relative of George W Bush. The recount was questionable at least. It that had not happened......
    • 1912 posts
    November 22, 2008 11:57 AM GMT
    Wendy? If that had not happened? It did not happen! Just like it did not happen in 2000. Florida has always been one of those states that can go either way. In 2000 after the election several newspapers including the NY Times recounted the votes and they always came out in favor of Bush.

    As I see it, the problem is not the Democrats or the Republicans, it is the people who are so filled with hate that they can't work together to solve problems.

    Hopefully something Obama can accomplish will be to unite everyone, not just the Democrats. Unfortunately there are plenty out there including some who posted in this thread that believe now the Democrats are in, the Republicans should be ignored. At a minimum, those people are hypocrits, but beyond that they are dividers not uniters.

    Hugs,
    Marsha
    • 2573 posts
    December 16, 2008 10:31 AM GMT
    Understand that military personnel are not numbers to me. They are the mothers and fathers of the kids I grew up next door too. They are the parents who died in service to their country. The ones they picked out of aircraft crashes in pieces...usually cooked well-done, though some had their brains splattered by spinning propellers and other ugly ways to die. Some died in wars. I still cry and shudder over things that happened over 50 yrs ago. If a person chooses to fly a dangerous aircraft because it will shoot down a Soviet bomber, that person is a hero to me. They are doing their duty. Do not ask me to stand by while they are sent to fight a senseless war. To oppose that is my duty as a citizen, if I feel that war is wrong. Even if I have to vote for a Democrat.

    17 Americans died in Iraq in November 2008. Total deaths for the war, since 2003, are 4209 Americans and 178 British and 138 "other" nationalities. They will continue to die until we are out of Iraq. Not enough people listened during the Vietnam war until over 50,000 had died.......not counting the locals. The pressure needs to stay on until we are out. Promises are cheap. " We are not about to send American boys nine or ten thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves. ... " Lyndon B Johnson Oct. 21, 1964 In less than three years, President Johnson had increased the number of US military personnel in Vietnam from 190,000 to 350,000. Those of us who did not want to see the lives of our young people wasted again in another war we should not have been in, have resisted the Iraq war since it was obvious that WMD were a facade. I intend to oppose it until we are out....not until we are promised we will be out, not until we reduce the forces in Iraq, but until we are out. You cannot force democracy on a people, or peoples, who are not willing to fight for their own freedom and to maintain a democracy. I'm not willing to buy it for them with the lives of young British and American men and women.....not even if that price is "only" 17 lives a month. One is too many. Why? Because men and women are not potatoes. I am a firm believer in the concept that it is "....better to die on your feet than live on your knees" - Emiliano Zapata

    (unless you are a voluntary, sex worker, I support COYOTE's goals in free choice for women and men and those of us inbetween as well as SAFER SEX practices....)

    While I do appreciate that progress has been made in Iraq, now is not the time to either give up or to encourage the Republican leaders to believe that they can get away with such wars and not pay the price. We gave them a nudge a couple years ago, but they didn't pay attention. I was willing to vote for Democrats to get that point across, and so were others. I'm sure that, by next election, I'll be back to voting Libertarian....except for my local member of the House of Representatives who has earned my vote. By the way, Obama beat McCain by a 7.2% margin of the popular vote

    (Dubya never did as well and he beat Al Gore by the lowest margin since 1888, minus 0.5% of the popular vote hardly Mandates and Oranges....oops did I mention Florida again?),

    and the highest number of actual popular votes in a quarter of a century. He also is president because of a mandate....: "an authorization to act given to a representative" clearly given under the Constitution. In fact, John Quincy Adams lost the popular vote by minus 10.4% to Andrew Jackson, which made Jackson so irritable that he took it out on the ENTIRE Cherokee Nation. Whether by one vote or 100 million, it is a mandate, effective January 20th following the presidential election, since the passage of the 20th Amendment to the Constitution, the "Lame Duck Amendment"
    (which was designed to shorten the wasted time in Congress before the new Congress was seated...which took place AFTER the President was sworn in. Now the new Congress is seated on January 3rd, which leaves the new Congress to settle any Presidential election problems which might throw the election into the House to settle. Before this the old Congress would have decided the election of the President, even though the People might have chosen to replace them for the term of the new President. Even in modern times, it takes a person a certain amount of time to settle their affairs, make arrangements for moving their family, settling in and being ready to attend congress. Two months is a short enough time for this. Not everyone is up to Military family standards to move on three days warning.

    Why did I vote for Obama? Three reasons, no five ....five reasons and his nifty suits.
    1. He wasn't a Republican.
    2. He was a Democrat and I felt that the Republicans needed a spanking for the War in Iraq more than I needed to not vote Democrat.
    3. I trusted his face when he spoke. I didn't get the same ugly, dirty feeling I get from long time politicians that it's not really them that I'm being shown. I have a lot of professional experience in reading faces. Furthermore, he opted for generalizations instead of resorting to lies. I like his ethics. Give me an ethical incompetent over a competent unethical any day...worst case.
    4. It might be possible that someone who isn't experienced enough in "business the old way" might just bring in some changes for the good. He certainly couldn't do much worse than a number of recent US leaders....things were so bad, it was worth the risk. The light in the tunnel was another train. It was time to change engineers cause Bush and his lackeys were pushing the throttle, not hitting the brakes. Perhaps we should have chosen somebody with more experience....like the Governor of Illinois.
    5. If all else failed, and Obama ended up being just another stinky politician, an American minority would gain a great deal from having our government led by the first African-American President. Children, whose grandparents grew up without basic civil rights, can look to Washington D. C. and say "I can do or be anything that I want to.... Dr. King was right." You can tell bedtime stories forever and not have half the effect of one man in the White House. To me that is a good enough reason alone to elect a black president. If there was no difference at all between the candidates, and there were differences, like brain function, that would have caused me to vote Obama, IF there were NO differences I would have voted for a black or female or Native American candidate to redress grievances.

    (and no, we are not changing the White House's color. You see it is not just white. It is officially "The White House" and if it was painted a different color we Colonials would look like a bunch of twits to our British friends.

    "Excuse me, can you tell me where The White House is?"
    "Of course, miss, it's that cerulean stone building up on that little hill."
    "Huh?"
    " The one with the men with surface to air missiles on the roof."
    "Oh, the blue one, thank you so much."
    "Enjoy your stay in Washington, Miss." )

    ****

    It's true that we had underestimated the number of enthusiastic, voting, religious bigots in CA. It seems we must hold a pogrom before the next election. No point in burning Bibles, those pesky Gideons will just replace them in bedside drawers. At least they are quiet and not annoying like Ladder-Day Saints who knock on your door or Jehova's Witnesses who confront you on busses....dancing up and down the aisle shouting "Jehova, Jehova, Jehova" till you just want to stone them to death. Sometimes I wish they didn't have bus passes then you could just toss them off the bus out the back door at a stop and they would have to pay again to get on.....but then they would just go back to knocking on your door while you were on the toilet again. No, it's gonna have to be a pogrom. I hope you are right, if there aren't enough liberals around who will we get to actually conduct a pogrom. Those wishy-washy, touchy-feely, tree-hugging liberals would never violate someone's civil rights.....where are all the gun-totin', truck drivin', skinhead liberals when you need them? Well, see if I ever stop for a nun in a crosswalk again....ok, ok, that's a bit extreme, maybe a diesel truck air horn under the hood of my Volkswagon. Wait is a boot a boot if it's in the front of a Volkswagon? Can one of you Brits clarify that for me. Boot or Bonnet? I suppose it's better to worry about these things than reading the Bible and having nothing better to do after Church than to get together and figure out how to make life for discriminated-against minorities even more miserable. Well, they tried to use religion to justify slavery........and that failed. They tried to force us to pray in school against our wishes....and that failed [Engel v. Vitale, 1962], to listen to the Bible in school...and that failed [Abington School District v. Schempp, 1963], this trend has continued by denying religious holiday decorations in public schools and buildings, display of The Ten Commandments and even pre-game prayer at high school football games. Now before you all jump on me for suggesting an anti-christian discriminatory pogrom, let me point out that is what they have been doing overtly and covertly to non-Christians for centuries....and still are. They forced it down our throat in public school, they made us pledge Allegiance to our country "under God", God help you indeed if you were Jewish. Gone today in America?

    "the Dobrich family in Delaware, victims of harassment, abuse, and discrimination because they dared challenge the practice of Christian prayers during school board meetings (among other constitutional violations). There haven't been any new developments since Christians chased them out of the community, but more details have come out about just how bad it was. "

    http://atheism.about.com/[...]ims.htm

    "As important as all the rest of the this New York Times article was, I think this single sentence, unadorned by background details or substantive information, may be the most important of all: more schools in Delaware are engaged in proselytizing and harassing non-Christians"

    For those who do not want to read the entire article, in short, a Jewish family was driven out of town for requesting less than their Constitutional rights regarding local prayer....sounds like the 50's again but back then they would not have allowed the Jewish family to move in in the first place. Do I seriously suggest a similar pogrom on Christians? No. I like Christians.....TRUE Christians. You think GOD sent his son to Earth just to put on a Three-Day Special for Pilate? Hell, no! He gave the Bible a major rewrite from the old days of stoning people for saying "Jehovah" to a forgiving, tolerant, loving, Christianity. It seems not to have taken with all modern Christians. You want to marry the person you love, or whisper an "Jehovah" here or there and these oxymoronic, "Old-Testament Christians" are picking up bricks to throw at you faster than you can say "Nominus Patre, es file, es spiritus sancti" five times fast. Yep, the message of Christianity really took on these folks. Sad as I am to see the passing of such icons as Christmas Trees in town squares and the celebrations of my childhood (even as an agnostic I saw the other celebration of Christmas, that of love and giving and good cheer among people who normally were not that way. I saw it and it was good. So i bought into it. I even went to Christmas Mass for the beauty of the music and pageantry and the good will of the people there...and wished it was like that all year. ) But the constant push to force religion down other people's throats have caused the laws to be changed and enforced more strictly and much of the beauty of sharing in those religions, at least in part, has been lost...for all of us. I truly see this as a sad thing. However I will mourn the passing of such beliefs far, far less than the passing of any groups civil rights....the right to equality. I only regret that some will paint the TRUE Christians with the same brush as these Fundamentalist Christians. They don't deserve it. (why are they called FUNdamentalists.........they aren't much fun and they are seldom funny except for when they open their mouths to speak about religion? Then they can be hysterical or terrifying like a large angry cobra....somebody pass me a machete)

    We Will Win. However long it takes. I've seen Catholics fully accepted because of President Kennedy. I expect to see black Americans finally fully given the respect they deserve, beyond the word into the spirit, because of President Obama. Just promise me this. After we win our rights, don't take it out on the fundamentalists. You are better people than that. Remember that picture of the road to Heaven "except for Alex the Jew"? Well the joke is that when the fundamentalists get there there will be a straightaway into Heaven with a "True Christians, bear left" with a downward path to the right that says "Fundamentalists, bear right at exit, steep downgrade, test brakes before proceeding" Yes, MOM I said bear left.
    • 2573 posts
    December 16, 2008 11:47 AM GMT
    Jane,

    Yes they did go to the Falklands, with not insignificant, quiet help from the US Navy and our satellite network. It was a marvel in execution in modern naval warfare....but then ship for ship the Brits have had the edge for centuries. (did I mention my grandfather was Royal Navy? He actually made it into a history book, but I'm not the slightest bit prejudiced in favor, lol) In fact the Hague is considering calling Britain to the World Court to charge them with the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Falklands. They sent out a unit of Gurkas with knives. Simply Horrifying! The Argentinians surrendered in droves.

    Actually, Jane, it was a joke....that Argentinians would start another war over their Presidential Pink House being imitated. Apparently not a very good joke.
    • 2573 posts
    December 16, 2008 12:17 PM GMT
    Missi,

    I have to disagree, I feel that Marsha has argued her point of view fairly and with a sense of humor. When you lose the ability to laugh at yourself, you probably lack the empathy to see another's viewpoint clearly. In fact understanding the joke can teach you a lot about how the other side thinks about the subject. Mixing politics AND religion is always a highly explosive mixture. As long as we can focus on the points of argument and not attack the person, we can keep the discussion on a civil level. Argumentum ad Hominem is invalid whether used for praise or abuse. Saying Jeffery should judge a BBQ contest because he's eaten a lot of ribs is as invalid as saying Connie Chung can't judge sushi because she's Chinese. Rather than attacking the person, it's better to address the argument's points and try to document your side.

    Arguing religion is fruitless, because it is a question of faith, not fact. This eliminates any point to logical argument for both sides start with an assumption based on faith. Politics is a bit more subjective and can be argued, but it too contains beliefs that are not necessarily based on facts because of how the US educational system teaches history. For example, people are gleeful or angered over the White settlers buying Manhattan for $24 in trinkets (no small amount in those times) from the poor "ignorant savages". The truth is a visiting tribe sold them an island they didn't even live on, they conned the settlers. Now THAT is funny. A totally different tribe lived on the north end and was really miffed to find they had been cut out of the deal. So the settlers ended up paying for the use of the island twice (lets not get into the spiritual beliefs of "owning" land to the Native Americans.)

    Anyway, let us all try to keep it impersonal, at least with each other. Remember, your button may sound like ANARCHISTS UNITE to the other girl.

    and, Marsha, visit Orange County. They have signs on the street that read LIBERAL REPUBLICANS WILL BE SHOT ON SITE. Well, they SHOULD have, it's not fair to just shoot them without warning like the locals do.
    • 1083 posts
    January 15, 2009 5:19 PM GMT
    Luvs--

    One: I grew up in California. The conservatives haven't taken over...yet. It'll be a very cold day in Palm Desert before they do. There's enough far-left people there to keep things normal there (for California) for quite some time.

    Two: It will be interesting to see the people's reaction when they discover that Mr. Obama (he's not the President yet, as I write this) is merely human. He will make mistakes, he will not be using magic to stabilize things. All of our troubles will not disappear overnight.

    What he has offered a very tired nation is hope. Hope that things will get better.

    Last president to offer us that...was Ronald Reagan, in 1980. And things did get better, and things started to turn around, slowly.

    I did not vote for Mr. Obama. However, he has my support, as he will be sworn in as president, and will become our new commander in chief. I hope he does well, as we (as Americans) all have a stake in turning things around.

    Luv 'n hugs

    Mina Sakura