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Should I bother? Carries a Warning

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  • I know this piece, see link is 10 years old, I have only just come across this particular snippet, But anyone that has'nt come across it, might find it interesting. All the lead in articles and other links etc are by emminent, genectic researchers,

    ( I must warn you that people who are easily offended)

    The articles refer to transexuals throughtout, so if your a TG. perhaps its not for you. That was an attempt at humour to make light of the nit picking that occured in a previous thread.



    ''This research goes someway to unravelling the mystery that is the horror of being trapped in the wrong sex body''
    Quote by Professor Richard Green. Imperial college London.

    Bugger, that makes me a TS and not a TG, Being, left handed and having finger prints like new car tyres. OMG the shame of it all.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h[...]136.stm

    Cristine
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 20, 2009 11:08 AM BST
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  • Christine-here's the link again but this time accessible:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h[...]136.stm


    Lynn
    "It ain't what you do,it's the way that you do it............and that's what gets results!"
      August 20, 2009 1:28 PM BST
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  • Lynn Thankyou for coming to my rescue, I always read your posting with avid interest, Well thought out, factual and enlightening. Rather dissapointed you did not make further comment on this subject in your reply. At least about the nit picking


    Hugs Cristine.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 20, 2009 2:19 PM BST
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  • Okay, I'm ambidextrous, I don't know any of my extended family whatsoever so I wouldn't have a clue how many aunts I have, and I don't think my fingerprints are particularly distinctive either, so where does that leave me? lol

    On the outside of yet another box I don't fit into?

    Who cares? Not me, that's for sure!

    Nikki
    Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.
      August 20, 2009 2:22 PM BST
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  • Labels, labels, labels...the only labels I'm concerned with these days are on the inside of clothing for sizes and washing instructions...(smile)

    Traci
    <p>Traci</p>
      August 20, 2009 3:27 PM BST
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  • Hi All,
    I too am ambidextrous, so that must make me the middle sex? As for my hand writing, computers have totally spoiled that, so I must be a doctor, because no one could read my scribbling. As for Aunts? None that I know of match the description in the article.

    Hugz,
    MichelleLynn
      August 20, 2009 3:57 PM BST
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  • 1195
    Crissie
    Golly gee! I'm a lefty - but like most lefties I've accomodated the wrong handed world
    - but that doesn't make me ambi-whatever.
    My fingerprints are all over the place and since I've been in water so much (swimming pool-not sink) my finger tips look more like prunes.
    My only question is how many aunts were required?
    My mom had only one sister - I did have three more by marriage - do they count? They were married to my maternal uncles.
    I'm lost as to how that would affect me.
    I thought I was confused enough - worry -worry.
    Crissie - you don't need any labels - you're a wonderful person and that's all that counts.

    Here's a mantra for you "I am adorable; I am wonderful; I think I'm grand."
    Repeat this at least 6 or 8 times a day.

    hugsxxxx
    Auntie Mary Grace
    <p>If it isn't fun - don't do it.</p>
      August 20, 2009 5:15 PM BST
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  • That assuming line 'with each older brother the chance of a TS being homosexual are increased by 40%'...someone define a homosexual TS please...was Green having a moment of rigid BLZB thinking when he wrote that? and I have two older brothers and I quite fancy nice guys but not for homo-sex...so what label would Green put on me?
      August 20, 2009 10:40 PM BST
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  • I had four maternal aunts, no maternal uncles, no brothers, just a sister 11 months older than me.???


    xxXCristineXxx
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 20, 2009 11:48 PM BST
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  • 2 2627
    The only thing that mqde any sence to me was -- Professor Green said: "Transsexualism has been with us since antiquity.

    Now that I will take as true,as for the rest of it. Well I have no brothers. I have or had 3 sisters. 2 are lesbians, as is 1 niece.
    But the oldest was 15yrs older than me & the other is 5yrs older than me. So they never realy played a big part in my life.
    I'm also right handed with very fine line prints. The cops hated printing me.
    I do have a lot of aunts, but never met most of them untill I was in my 30's.
    <p>Karen Brad</p>
      August 20, 2009 11:56 PM BST
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  • Karen,

    How often do the cops have to print you?

    Christine,

    I hope you got the "type flat" fingerprints in case of a puncture. Would be so much less interesting around here without your posts.

    ***

    There was also a link to first sons of military officers/NCOs as I recall.

    I am "ambidextrous" in that I have preferred hands for different task. Retrospection has proved that right-handed tasks are because of society forcing that choice and a dominant right eye. Where eye choice was not significant or I learned tasks later/on my own, I chose left.

    These indicators should be considered as what they are, statistical anomalies. The processes involved in brain development are so complex that a factor may not be "strong" enough to overwhelm other developmental areas. Lots of aunts could be the result of a family genetic trend to produce females which could affect brain gender in a male. It may have nothing to do with socialization. I have 5 aunts and almost never saw any of them during my life. How could they socialize me if they did have an effect? These factors may be indicators but they are only a small number of many factors that influence the brain gender, more or less.

    I think such research is enlightening but so many factors are involved that they should not be considered as an absolute precurser to TG development. There are clear cases of males being raised as female who rejected that stereotype and reclaimed their brain gender despite social conditioning to be transsexual. They should be the springboard for further research.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      August 21, 2009 4:32 AM BST
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  • Well now, I am not sure as to the rhythm or rhyme of that article. is it about the physical concepts that take place in the womb. ( which I believe in) or is it a way of explaining away any biological or scientific reasons for the process that takes place in the womb, to make it psychological trait again. And here I thought that was in the past, silly me.. I know this article is old, but I do believe they still want a slot to be able to put us in.

    As for the family connections, my dad took off when I was very young, leaving my mother to work two jobs, so my brother and I were basically raised by three great aunts, grandmother and great grandmother. My mother had two sisters, and one brother, But my mother only had my brother and I, so that does not fit the multiple birth theory.
    But like most of us, I started trying to be a girl as early as my memory serves me, with the help of three female cousins, and one great aunt, who told me I was supposed to have been a girl, I guess she was right...LOL................I am ambidextrous, with normal finger prints......does this leave me confused again? Please no more...the pic I put up was taken of me two years ago, when I was going into my last identity downturn .....
    . Also, was there not an article written about the same time, that stated if the ring finger and the index finger were the same length, could be a indication of varying dysfunctional personality traits?????? And yes Karen, I am with you about this quote....."Transsexualism has been with us since antiquity.

    <p>A life without purpose, is a life without reason!</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;myspace.com/tammybrianne</p>
      August 21, 2009 5:17 AM BST
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  • I am not deluded into thinking that Professors Greens article /comments, were the basis for deciding or deciphering the complexities of what makes one a transexual, whatever, I just thought it was interesting, given the percentages involved and being left handed etc myself. But we don't know how the survey was conducted. Many of the points he raised are theories older than the piece he wrote and common knowledge, was the survey conducted on a question and tick box scenario, or were there in depth studies prolonged observation and research into family histories, If it was the tick the box option then people do tend to lie or rather their answers are based on what confirms what they think, Like me, loadsa maternal aunts, left handed, and raised finger prints, I rejected the ring finger findings because they did not ft me personally, do you see where I'm coming from?. Bit like the Trannyweb survey, what do you wear in bed? Funny the biggest % say they wear a baby doll nightie. Is that because most people think its a frivilous question and don't bother to answer it what the ... difference does that make and only the those seeking confirmation etc, put down baby doll the ultimate feminine sleepwear. By the way most of the time I wear PJ's. if your that interested, and if I do wear a baby doll now and again, I dont get to keep it on long enough for it to realy count, bit like blowing your nose and say you always wear a tissue.

    Realy I am more interested in the factual reports from gene laboritories and in depth investigations with factual and logical open conclusions on how the study was caried out and the answers evaluated .

    Just don't read too much into this thread, it was just an article posted out of interest.


    Cristine
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 21, 2009 8:27 AM BST
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  • This thread shouldnt be taken seriously? damit! I just bought 3 aunts of the black market!
    Just an ordinary girl finding her way in this strange life. - What will it take to get everyone to realise that everyone else is also a human being that deserves just as much respect? - How does someone tell their doctor they have hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia? - When I was a student I specialised in Alcopology. It always starts with Alco and always ends with pology. - Waiter! There's a hare in my rabbit pie!
      August 21, 2009 1:47 PM BST
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  • There's a well-worn saying,"There are lies,damned lies........and statistics". Or to put it another way,if you choose your parameters carefully and manipulate the figures properly you can prove just about anything with statistics...........................

    I don't really tick any of the boxes-basically right handed,no brothers,one younger sister,4/5 maternal aunts but only ever saw one regularly- so I must be the exception that proves the (supposed) rule?

    I wouldn't lose any sleep over this............

    Lynn
    "It ain't what you do,it's the way that you do it............and that's what gets results!"
      August 21, 2009 2:15 PM BST
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  • Lynn, I deduce what proffessor Green was intimating that if the maternal grandmother had loads of daughters perhaps there was some inherent trait that was passed down, conditioning the foetus in subsequent pregnancies in the next generation down, especially if the previous child/children of the same mother were daughters, preceding a boy. Nothing to do with them being around, and having any consequential effect on their development after birth.

    But as I said previously I would like to know how these studies were carried out and how the so called results were evaluated.


    Cristine.
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 24, 2009 9:23 AM BST
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  • Christine,

    II think it is important to be aware of these older articles. Not only to they have insights but they educate us to where ideas come from in perceptions of TG persons. I added it to my bookmarks on BRAIN SEX/GENDER research. Recent research on simple genetic models from more primitive species show that significant changes in development can be induced by activating unused genetic material in different species. Some of these phenotypes can be signposts of other hidden genotype changes that seem unrelated....like finger length or finger prints.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      August 24, 2009 3:54 PM BST
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  • 1195
    Lynn
    I like the "old saying" "Figures don't lie but liers figure."

    hugs
    Gracie
    <p>If it isn't fun - don't do it.</p>
      August 24, 2009 3:55 PM BST
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  • Wendy I am at present trolling through reports of the androgen gene in the DNA and the results of the elongation or disfigurment of this gene in relation to GID and the effects it has in producing androgens and the efficiency of the androgen receptors.

    Unfortuanately I posted it in the UK forum and still did'nt get the link to work on another interesting item.

    Transexualism and overview in the UK forums.

    Help, lol

    Hugs Cristine
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 24, 2009 4:22 PM BST
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  • Link is fixed, Cristine.

    You can quickly format a link by using the "Add A Link" link at the bottom of the post box when you are writing it. Copy the link, get rid of the http:// in the pop up box and paste your complete link into the same space. Hit OK and then cut and paste the formatted link at the bottom of the type in box to where u want it......
    or simply put a url in brackets [ ] in front of the LINK and follow it with a /url in brackets [ ] after the link as shown by the codes list off the bottom of the visible page and often overlooked.

    I know the research you are talking about. I also studied a DVD on genetic reproduction that was very helpful in understanding genetic errors. I'll try to find the title and post it. That could take years but one never knows what stack of papers I will kick over next.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      August 24, 2009 5:26 PM BST
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  • It's just occured to me-does the converse apply for FtM??


    Lynn
    "It ain't what you do,it's the way that you do it............and that's what gets results!"
      August 25, 2009 1:32 PM BST
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  • Not necessarily, Lynn. Remember, the female human is the template from which the male is formed, but only in the 7th week. The female embryo that becomes a FtM individual is subjected to different stimuli than the MtF during the gestation period and after birth as well.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      August 26, 2009 4:26 PM BST
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  • Wendy,I was asking more from the point of view that the investigation only seems to be about apparently significant statistical physiological and/or social correlations for MtF.Even if the female human is the 'default' form this doesn't per se exclude the possibility of physiological and/or social features which could be statistically significant for FtM.


    Lynn


    "It ain't what you do,it's the way that you do it............and that's what gets results!"
      August 27, 2009 12:34 PM BST
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  • No, Lynn, it does not.
    "A live lived in fear is a life half-lived." - Native American proverb. "Inside every man is a woman who was drowned in testosterone before birth". - Wendy Jeanette Larsen "It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not." - Andre Gide (French writer)
      August 27, 2009 6:08 PM BST
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  • Last 3 posts, you might be refering to a condition called Congenital Adrenal Hyperlasia, which affects the female feotus, but in a very small minority can affect a male feotus as well.


    Cristine
    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 28, 2009 9:31 AM BST
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