It is my understanding that this "compassion" was really about oil.

http://www.inboxrobot.com[...]8408963

http://www.telegraph.co.u[...]ks.html

Let us call a barrel a barrel, shall we? Nobody would release this animal unless they were guaranteed a political gain far in excess of the negative side that they had to have known was coming.

Personally I would like to have sent him back alone and explode the plane over the cheering crowds in Libya. Oops, our bad.

Wendy, I see that you're one of the 'shoot first and ask questions afterwards/the only good indian is a dead indian' persuasion.The guy had NOTHING to do with Lockerbie but did time in prison as a political pawn.Your government and mine both know the true story behind Lockerbie-and neither Libya nor el-Megrahi feature in it anywhere.There is,apparently,a report on the case produced by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission in August 2007 which takes 800pages to detail the points I've made elsewhere in this thread-and by all accounts a whole lot more.No commission anywhere wastes 800 pages on saying that an investigation and trial was faultless and the sentence fully justified.

Somethig to ponder over-a couple of months before Lockerbie,the US Navy shot down an Iranian civil airliner ......in Iranian airspace.All on board were killed.One could view this as an act of (state)terrorism......I'm not aware that the gunner,gunnery officer,commanding officer,Secretary of State for Defense and so on were ever put on trial for this.They certainly weren't extradited to Iran to stand trial for such a blatant crime although this would have been more than justified in the circumstances.Or are they perhaps heroes in your eyes?Now go think about which state possibly had a motive for Lockerbie... and what about the bereaved in Iran?

To my mind,this whole business only damages our political system.We,or at least our leaders,get all worked up about show trials,rigged trials etc which take place in China,Burma/Myanmar etc etc.How do these people expect to be able to convince everyone else that our system is the best when we then come up with.......Guantanamo,Abu Ghareib,to name but two, and the judicial farce of a trial over the Lockerbie bombing.In the end we (not personally intended) we show ourselves to be no better than those we so loudly criticize-our motto is obviously 'Do as we say,not as we do'Possibly the only saving grace that I can see is that ,whilst we've lowered and corrupted our standards,we've not quite yet reached the depths of ,say,Iran,China or Burma-not quite yet........,but we're damn close.

If wearing blinkers keeps you happy........................

Lynn

"In an interview published Saturday, British Justice Secretary Jack Straw said trade considerations, particularly a deal for oil company BP, played a major role in the decision to include Megrahi in a prisoner transfer agreement between Britain and Libya."

Lynn, I am so confused. You know so much about this case yet you were not there to defend him. How compassionate. And to say how this damages our political system, I think you mean justice system, is a little off in my opinion. Maybe only to people such as you who believe somehow we can get through to these terrorists by setting an example of punishment with no backbone, but instead they laugh at us knowing we will teardown our own societies fighting amongst ourselves over this nonsense.

I'm with you Wendy, we could have all stood up and applauded his welcome home.

One more parting quote:
"A recent BBC/ICM Research poll showed that 32 percent of Scots surveyed believe that the Lockerbie plotter should have been freed, and 20 percent of people thought the decision was made purely on humanitarian grounds."

quote sources: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/[...]_post//

Hugs,
Marsha

So what if oil played a role?Personally I'd sooner free an innocent man in return for oil supplies than send in the marines with the fairy tale of looking for WMDs.

Sure we should act against terrorism BUT we should act against the real suspects rather than against politically expedient surrogates.I'll make this point again-your government and mine( as UK citizen) know what happened at Lockerbie,they know exactly who was behind it-but political expediency stopped and stops them acting accordingly.Is this really effectively combatting terrorism or is it just an exercise in placating the masses?Punishment 'with backbone' as you put it surely excludes anything which stinks of political expediency?Letting or forcing somebody or some state to take the rap for the actions of another state or individual has,to my mind,no deterrent effect whatsoever.Probably the reverse in fact.And even then,we can only hope to eventually defeat some politically inspired terrorismus if we take a serious look at what lies behind it.Then again,it's politically expedient not to do so because otherwise this would mean accepting the fact that we are not necessarily the innocent victims we like to portray ourselves as being.We turn a blind eye to certain activities of friendly states because we think that it is in our interest to do so.We let matters slide so far that, even when somebody wakes up and begins to see the connections,we haven't got the guts to seriously do anything about it.What sanction is more effective with kids who overstep some mark or other-someone saying,"Tut-tut,that really wasn't a very nice thing to do ,was it?"-or was it perhaps a short,sharp shock of some description?No,as long as we continue to turn a blind eye and be partial we will be stuck with terrorism of one form or another. And whether we like it or not,in some cases terrorism would seem to be the only means of reacting against,and drawing attention to certain untenable situations.I don't condone it...but I can see why some people choose it. No smoke without fire.....It takes two to tango etc.....

'How compassionate'.......spare me the sarcasm.

Opinion polls...........the majority of people draw their knowledge on matters of the day from what the mass-madia throws at them,be it in the form of newspapers like The Sun,The Daily Mirror ,The Daily Mail,Fox News,or radio comentators a la Rush Limbaugh.I do occassionally take the trouble to inform myself and draw my own conclusions,even when this means being out of line with whatever the majority opinion is.If anything I've posted in this thread has sown a tiny seed of doubt somewhere so that someone starts to use that grey mass between the ears and think about one or two things..........then I'll be satisfied.

Have a nice day!

Lynn

Mmm, so the old chestnut rumbles on...

I appreciate I'm in a minority of one here but it is a bit tiresome when the same old stuff is dug up and presented as 'new'. I thought we'd already established that the media - and therefore the general worldwide populace - was getting its collective knickers in a twist about two very seperate things that occured at two very seperate times. Namely the possibility of a prisoner exchange and the eventual compassionate release.

I maintain my view - having seen absolutely nothing to either give a hint to nor persuade me - of the errors of my thinking. I include, of course, all the wisdom peddled in this thread.

I really do wish those who post saying it was all about the oil - oh shock, horror! - actually read the links they post. They will then see the difference.

For those in our midst who wish the guy dead in a variety of interesting ways I pity you. As the old adage says: an eye for an eye will only leave everyone blind.

I, for one, am pleased the guy was released for genuine compassionate reasons.

I cannot comment on his innocence or guilt other than to say Scottish law has the capacity to bring a verdict of 'not proven' [something I wish more legal systems had].

Ok, that's it for now. Seconds out, round 567............................ and I'm off to detangle me knickers!

Much love

Rae xx

Hi Rae,

You are not a minority of one. I've bit my tongue and stayed out of this thread until now, but I've agreed with the calm logic of your posts and I appreciate them. I worry about the sniping about which side of the Atlantic we live in - what is right is right....

Best,
Melody

Melody,

Thankyou, that was nice of you to say.

I'm in the - to my mind at least - very fortunate position of having my best friend adopt me as her sister and see me as such. Her two children adopt me as their Aunt and see me as such. And my sisters Mother to adopt me as her daughter and see me as such.

My adoptive Mom lives in Atlanta. My sister is American and my niece and nephew have joint citizenship.

Needless to say I don't like the sniping either! And I don't think any of the 'snipers' really mean it

Much love to you

Rae xx

Rae,

strange as it might seem I'm largely with you here! It was just that I felt that the oh so compassionate and well-informed opinions scattered through the thread might benefit from being countered by a few (home?) truths................

It was probably all a waste of time and effort.........................

C'est la vie..

Lynn

Hiya Marsha, bless, lol

Don't read too much into what the British papers say, they are influenced by the various political parties, If the conservatives were in power or, even the liberal democrats, different versions would be in different papers, whilst not blantantly lying, they do tend to interpret information releases to promote or rubish the actions of opposing parties. Its called spin, Stick to the cartoon section, lol much more factual.



xxXCrisitneXxx

To Rae, good observation, about the not proven verdict that can be given by a Scotish court. The defendant can be re arrested at a later date, as further evidence is discovered and retried, unlike the not guilt, double jeopady verdict and its connotations.
Which as I understand it means we know you did it, there is enough circumstantial evidence, but at the time they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.


I do not remember the actual reporting of the Lockerbie bombing, but was'nt the trial conducted abroad and did Scotish law come into effect?

xxXCristineXxx

I know Cristine. I just get a laugh out of all the conspiracy theorist out there. When all this evidence is so obvious to these people, you have to wonder what idiots we have running the court systems around the world that just don't seem to ever see it the same way, not to say some of those involved can't be idiots, and not to say it is impossible for some pawn to get bamboozled for political reasons. As for those that want to believe it was compassionate to release this terrorist, there is no doubt that compassion played some role, how much is where we differ. Without rereading all this to find who had already said this, this guy wasn't just picked up strolling down the street minding his own business, he had already been linked to terrorist activity. It is kind of like saying to a serial murderer "We know you killed a dozen people, but we found out you are not the one who killed Jane Doe, so we are going to go ahead and set you free." How compassionate.

Hugs,
Marsha

OMG! I do not know what happened to me the other day. For a few minutes I believed what the US and UK governments told me. I do not know what I was thinking. I am over it now and fully recovered. Imagine trusting a Western government not to throw somebody in prison for years just for show (and to get re-elected). My only excuse is that I had spent 11 hrs, in up to 102 degree heat, waiting for and riding 6 buses to-and-fro to the ER (A&E) to have my foot checked to see if it was fractured. It must have been the pain and exhaustion. However I said I "would like" to do it, not that I would do it. Big difference.

Actually, I have repeated evidence that I do not shoot until I see the gun pointed at me or being shot at me before I shoot. Given those conditions I shoot without hesitation. My judgement has been flawless in such situations. A girl has to know how to take care of herself. I will never apologize for that. I like living. I do not mind shooting scum to do so. Shooting second can get you PCD....politically correct dead. Not my choice of strategies.

Christine-

you remember correctly.They had to set up a special,extra-territorial few acres of Scotland on a disused army camp at Zeist in The Netherlands.The trial took place according to Scottish law,but interestingly,without a jury.Whether this with no jury was a special,one-off,arrangement or not is beyond my knowledge.What is also interesting is that,although a scottish court applying scottish law,for some reason US officials(State Dept?Justice?)were very present in court advising the prosecution.....strange......

Lynn

Lynn


I was'nt sure, about the trial being held abroad, thought I heard it when he was released, why was'nt the trial conducted in Scotland, I'm sure there is so much surrounding this than we will ever get to know, perhaps it was conducted abroad so the americans could bring pressure to bare was anything ever said about not having a proper constituted jury and what reason was given for not having one. surely under Scotish law the same as English law one is entitled to trial by Jury?

Cristine

OMG, this is getting really good. So an evil U.S. official was there. So are you saying that the people running the trial, the Scots, were too weak or maybe too stupid to run their own Scottish law trial? This would make a great movie, I'm thinking Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood can play the evil U.S. official and barge in through the door, better yet, blow a hole through the wall and enter the makeshift courtroom yelling out, "I'm in charge now!" Maybe we should have a nice family picnicking right outside the army base. As the Americans approach they can shoot the family down to make it more realistic because WE ALL KNOW THAT IS WHAT THE EVIL AMERICANS ALWAYS TRY TO DO. WOW, and here all along I thought it was a crazy feel good story about some guy about to die being allowed to go home for compassionate reasons. Who would have ever thought this nonsense up? WOW.

Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha that outburst realy does'nt become you, Actually seated on the prosecution bench were Brian Murtagh from the US Justice department who helped draw up the indictment and Dana Biehl Justice department advisor to the whitehouse. Methinks the lady doth protest to much, Your goverment is about as innocent as ours when it comes to getting its own way, bit of bribery here, bit of a threat there, a few sanctions.

Read some interesting stuff, Trial and pre trial reports, on record, How the trial ended up in Camp Zeist an old american Airforce base in the Netherlands, Nelson Mandella offered his country for an independant trial on two occasions, this was unacceptable to the USA. Nearly six years lapsed from the time of the bombing to the start of the trial. Mandella wanted a jury of judges made up from countries around the world, stating that no one nation should judge or deliberate on such a henious crime. Guese what the USA objected.

Cristine

Oh dear.

Clearly this thread is descending quickly into absolute stupidity. Which is a little surprising and not just a little sad. I hope it is quickly closed before it hits absolute farce.

I, for one, won't be wasting any more time viewing it.



[Rae exits the sandpit...]

ENOUGH marsha....QUIT bad-mouthing the scots will you. They were not WEAK or stupid, but they saw fit to try the case under scottish law. And anyway, what business was it of this guy to be advising the scots?. I thought you were better than this



Anna-Marie

I'm sorry if anyone has taken my comments as demeaning to Scots, Brits, or anyone for that matter, but along the same lines you seem to have no issue going after Americans. I have made reference in previous posts to this thread that it is possible for some to be bamboozled and used as a pawn for political purposes, however I see that as irrelevant in this case. My comments about the posts here have been against the conspiracy theorist who's ideas seem to be taken as factual and discounting anything else when the court did not see it that way and the fact there has been 20 years to correct it and nothing was done. If you believe so much that this was some nonsense conspiracy then it is you who is personally responsible for this terrorist's incarceration. And why were Americans involved in the trial, WHO DIED ON THAT PLANE? That was an American plane with Americans on board, Lockerbie was the piece of dirt the bodies and plane remnants fill on, that's all.
Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha Anne,

About a week ago I posted a thread in another forum where I told you I looked with anticipation to your posts. I sincerely meant that and I still do. (I seldom agree with you, but I appreciate your opinions and they often make me re-evaluate my own ideas.) I have tremendous admiration for how you handled your situation at your old church and while I'm not especially religious myself I think you are a heroine.
But, Hon, we need to excuse ourselves and walk to the Ladies Room. You need to freshen up, reaply your lipstick and wipe the spittle and foam from the corners of your lips....

Best (and I really mean that),
Melody

No "e" on the Ann. I won't post anymore in this thread unless solicited for a response It is fascinating how the expectation is everyone is suppose to agree, so in a sense I'm glad I can get all your panties in a wad by disagreeing with you. Pretty hypocritical when you look at the new "Republicans" thread.
Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha,

There is no rule that people have to agree. It's just that most of us prefer to debate politely and with natural ladylike decorum. [That comment, incidently is not aimed at you but a general statement!].

I appreciate why our American cousins can get heated on this particular subject but I do want to pick you up on a point or two from your second to last post.

Yes 66% of those who died in this bombing were American. But in total 21 different nationalities suffered a loss. Here in the UK we had 52 of our citizens killed.

And this is the bit that would raise hackles here, 11 of them were living on 'the piece of dirt the bodies and plane remnants fell on'. Lockerbie's a town hunni. The plane fell on Sherwood Crescent in the town of Lockerbie. Lucky there weren't more deaths there.

Just wanted to correct what might have been a misconception.

And, from a personal perspective, I'd much rather you disagreed because you held a contrary view. Not just because you wanted to be contrary!

Much love

Rae xxx

[Haven't read the new republicans thread nor do I have a desire to do so. Seperate issue surely?]

I have enjoyed the intelligent musings from both sides of this post. Being an ex-pat living on this side of the pond, I find it interesting that we all speak the same language, but look at things from almost completely differing points of view.

I haven’t the foggiest of a clue as to whether megrahi is innocent or not, and nor do I care . I do know All politics is bad and corrupt at some level, doesn’t matter what Party what ideologies!! Who our enemy is today will most lightly be our friend tomorrow. And you have to know this is only because we want, or will get something from said enemy/friend. And yes afraid to say this girls, that does mean that in the not to distant future the bogy man of Al-Qaeda will be sitting down at the same negotiating table, as every other terrorist group has done..

Please look up the time lines for this whole farce and yes Megrahi is probably a scape goat. That’s not to say Libya is innocent. This little piece of information I think is interesting.

Libya agrees $2.7 Billion Dollar compensation package with the USA which included compensation for the bombing of Libya by the USA. Condoleezza Rice meets with Gaddafi and the trade embargo is lifted which allows British and American Oil companies to again operate in Libya.

Do i think Libya is innocent in any of this, hell no but then again nor are the Brits or the Americans...The people on Pan Am flight 103 and the 11 Scots on the ground died as pawns in this ongoing game. If all of this makes it sound like a conspiracy theory, then chances are it is... But that’s just Politics
Hugs
Jane xxx

http://en.wikipedia.org/w[...]l_setup

I don't realy remember the actual bombing, I was only 5 years old. Obviously I have since heard about it and the trial in 2000 and the subsequent release of the bomber. This thread has caused so much controversy and a us and them, them and us
attitude I thought I would find out as much as I could. What I find amazing is, it took 11 years to come to trial. But anyway hope all the protagonists in this debate can read it and settle back into a harmonious and more genteel discourse. remember we are all sisters.


Hope I have the url right,................................................ It works, it actually works, lol


Loadsa love Cristine xxxXxx

This thread will run and run...........!!

If this thread is getting silly this is down to some people apparently having problems with nasty little facts and realities which contradict their view of the world.We all know if we're honest,-on both sides of the Atlantic-,that the world of politics,justice and intelligence agencies,especially when they work together, is nowhere as squeeky clean as we'd love to believe.In the US you've had Watergate,Contragate etc etc,in the UK we've had numerous justice scandals where evidence was blatantly withheld,manipulated and so on ,with the result that innocent people were sent down for life.There were occassions when it seemed that having an irish accent and being stopped by the police for drunken driving was enough to get you a life sentence as an IRA bomber!

To Lockerbie(yawn....)..and no,Marsha,this is not conspiracy theory-this all came out in court!

1:Two Libyans were charged with the Lockerbie bombing on the basis of an identification obtained by the CIA through bribery of a person known to be a corrupt and compulsive liar.

2:Surprisingly(!) ,the court rejected this persons testimony-lock,stock and barrel.This resulted in the total collapse of the case against the second suspect who was consequently released.It also made the continuation of the case against El-Megrahi ridiculous since it meant he would have had to have been acting alone....................

3.El-Megrahi was demonstrably NOT on Malta on the date the case and clothing were purchased.

4.He WAS on Malta on the date the case with the bomb is supposed to have left the island,as unaccompanied luggage,by plane to Frankfurt and on to London.

5.An earlier court case brought by Air Malta had already established that there was NO unaccompanied case on the flight in question to Frankfurt, and that NO passenger or luggage was booked onwards to London from Frankfurt.Every case that went on the flight in Malta was collected in Frankfurt by its respective passenger.


So,where does this leave us?

El-Megrahi was sentenced to life for buying a samsonite suitcase and clothing-in person-from a shop on Malta when he wasn't on the island,and further,putting said case as unaccompanied luggage on a flight to Frankfurt with transfer to London although it had already been proved in another court that no such unaccompanied luggage was on the flight in question and that all the luggage was accompanied and accounted for.

FACIT: El-Megrahi was apparently sentenced to life imprisonment for merely being on Malta on the date in question!

Lest we forget-being employed by the intelligence agency of your country is not,in itself, a criminal offence.

Christine-been doing your homework?It was,possibly with good reason,felt that a free and fair trial would not be possible in Scotland or the USA-therefore the fictive Scotland in Camp Zeist,NL.The judges could have gone for 'Not proven'-but preferred to go the whole hog.

have a nice day,girls'n'boys,

Lynn

I conclude reading in depth, that both the USA and the UK were dertermined to get a result, irregardless of the facts, the inducement of $2M dollars paid to Tony Guaci the star witness by the US goverment did'nt exactly promote the search for the truth, Another point raised was the shooting down of an Iranian civil airliner over Iranian air space was the root cause, the bomb on the Lockerbie flight being originally promoted and sponsored from Iran in retaliation. Iregarless of Mgrahi suffering Cancer one has to consider why he was not released on appeal on the flimsy evidence and the inducements given at the time,
Perhpas the compasionate release on grounds of ill health was a face saving exercise for the inept and inacurate evidence presented at the time.

What Sanctions or threats were made against the Libyans at the time to offer up the two defendants? After the shooting down of the Iranian civil airliner, The USA could hardly be in a position on the world political stage to threaten Iran, so was Liybia involved with Iran in a cover up. I don't think we will ever know, A case of justice was seen to be done. at the time.????

Cristine

Can I make the point that in Muslim thinking anyone not Muslim is Infidel so enemies such as Iran and Libya will forget their differences and join together against the Infidels while still taking any opportunity to harm each other. It's not Libya against the world its the Muslim world against the Infidel World...so that muddies things up and if we add in some CIA stirring over oil and arms trading then who knows what the truth is and was.

And Muslim is the excuse for the guy remaining in prison rather than constantly protesting his innocence and bringing his country and by extension the Muslim world into conflict? Muslims can blank off today in order to get Paradise tomorrow whiel we Infidels take today and blank off the Paradise that is ours the moment we die. (do not get into argument with me over this or I'll have to tell you to get some Semtex and go blow up every religious artefact in your area.)

Re the point of law about holding the trial in neutral country... this is purely a ploy to try ensure no civil unrest or harassment of witnesses and official. Exactly the same happened in the next town to me when some Muslim robber/murderers were tried for killing a policewoman. As the town has a very big Muslim population the trial was moved right up England to an area where the population is much closer to 100% White English or White European or Black African - all of whom have no love for Muslims.

Re the point of law about no juries... right now in London a gang of vicious robbers are being tried by a single judge after two previous trials collapsed after the jury were 'tampered with' by offers of cash, beatings, etc...as the gang had so much influence and many contacts the identity and safety of jurors could not be guaranteed so the seldom used rule of 'no jury trial' had to be invoked in order to see justice done. Prosecution and defence lawyers will have to give the stark facts without making any appeals or influencing remarks to a jury and the judge has been chosen to examine all the facts and decide if they add up to and he can say Guilty or Not Guilty.

Christine,

the authorities managed to get the release through before the appeal could really get going.Saturdays Gaurdian had an interview/article with a barrister,Michael Mansfield,and besides confirming what I've tried to get over in this thread he also had some comments to make about the aborted appeal.There is also the aspect of El-Megrahi's health to consider,since the appeal would almost certainly have been dragged out with interminable legal wrangling.

ciao

Lynn

Lynn


This is getting away realy from the original point, the ''Release on compassionate grounds, or the rot in Jail till he died'' agenda, but I find this realy intriuging, the subtefuge and inside dealing etc, that seemed to have gone on. Is there any chance that he was released on purpose before another appeal got under way, the authorities fearing egg on face syndrome with further revelations that have leaked out or become knowledge since the original trial? Better to be seen as compassionate wimps as opposed to blantant liars and perjurers. So intent on a result by public demand and foreign pressures than a truthful and open trial. I realy don't see that the trial convened as it was, with no jury etc, would have been fair wherever it was held, the fact we exported Scotish justice to a foreign country was imaterial as to location. It could have been held on the moon from what I have read, would have made no difference to the outcome. But saying that I think from the little I know that the Scotish Trial system is one of the fairest and safest in the world, with having a 3rd verdict. If left to judge and reach a verdict without undue pressures.?

Cristine.

Perhaps I'm letting my imagination run away with me.




To me it would seem there is more here than the best thought up novel. Truth being stranger than fiction?

Christine

there are people who see it that way,and I did mention in an earlier posting this very possibility-rather a couple of days of awkward comments and staged annoyance than a long drawn out series of extremely embarrassing revelations.(so long ago now-back near the start I think).

Rose,

The muslim angle is interesting but I don't think I'd put too much weight on it.I feel you're looking at from the perspective of 2009 whereas i think we have to try and put ourselves back to 1988/1989-which is when Lockerbie happened and the investigation started.I also think that,no matter what The Koran says,as we've seen in Iraq,muslim solidarity tends to have a confessional aspect-basically Shia against Sunni.Over in Libya,Gaddafi was trying to play the socialist rather than the islamist.
Way back....suspicion fell on Iran and a radical Palestinian group- PFLP-GC Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command,a basically Marxist-Leninist orientated group based in Damascus,Syria,that had achieved a degree of notoriety through hi-jackings and so on.Whatever the precise relationship with Iran was,various PFLP groups in Europe were rounded up,either just before or not long after Lockerbie.In Frankfurt,for example,the police found 5 bombs of the type used for Lockerbie-the person who made them has been reported as saying that he made 6........if so,one bomb went AWOL.........Other Palestinians arrested in Sweden and Yugoslavia apparently gave very pertinent information as to events on Malta. Later on,athe German news magazine 'Der Spiegel' had an interview with an Iranian who told them how the bomb was transported to Heathrow and by who.By the time this appeared however,the investigators were trying to fit Libya into the picture instead of Iran,Syria and the PFLP and so it was never followed up.


Personally,viewing the whole,stinking,can of foetid worms that the Lockerbie story is,the release on compassionate grounds was absolutely correct and was the only act of fairness and justice in the whole sorry tale.Better late than never.

Lynn

That said, and they are all good points, the international world of espionage and agents usually follow a code that keeps them alive unless they cross over the line so to say...so while maybe El-_whatever-hisname is didn't have his fingerprints on the bomb, he more than likely had been involved in plotting, planning, training, fund raising, whatever for "subversive" activities, which in turn, made him "fair game" for his rivals (CIA, 10 Downing, etc.) In that case, they just nailed him to the cross for Lockerbee in lieu of other covert activities that broke the "code". Using THEIR (Fundamentalist Islamics) rational for logic, if you're not with us, you're against us, they pulled him in and placed him in prison, which, if you are an "infidel", is a good place for a guy like that, freedoms and rights be damned. Kinda like nailing OJ Simpson for $30 million in civil suits, although the jurors found him not guilty of his crimes.

Traci

I couldn't agree more rae, yet another great post from you. When i read what had been said in a previous post.....quoting " Lockerbie was the piece of dirt the bodies and plane remnants fill on, that's all" i had to laugh because had that actually been said to a Scot who'd lost someone at Lockerbie, then whoever said it would be on the recieving end of a glasgow kiss!

.


Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna-Marie

'A piece of dirt'-you only a Christian on Sundays/-shame on you! . I wont pretend to the 'Luvvie' stuff,Marsha-I find youre rants both bigotted and pedantic and I fear for you and my beloved country.

I believe everything has been said about this post now, and it has sparked a good debate, which is healthy. However in light of recent comments and in the interests of everyone involved, this thread is now suspended.

You are more than welcome to contact me should you feel that this decision is unfair.

Nikki