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Who DOES he think he is??

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  • Just WHO does the FBI chief , Robert Mueller think he is, openly & publicly criticising the Scottish Government and in particular Kenny MacCaskill, for releasing the Lockerbie bomber on " compasssionate" grounds. Kenny Maccaskill was in a no-win situation here as he's been slated for releasing the guy, had he not done that he'd have been slated for crumbling under pressure from the US Govt.

    I for one think it took great courage on the part of the Scottish Government to make that decision, knowing it would upset certain people. (Lets not forget that Scotland lost people too)

    Maybe this will teach the US that they cannot interfere with the Justice System of another country, to engineer a decision in their favour.
    Adbelbasset Ali Al-Megrahi only has a few weeks to live ( what with having terminal cancer) and i honestly cannot see what all the fuss is about.



    This Phrase " Justice tempered by Compassion" From Kenny Maccaskill says it all & Good on him.


    Anna-Marie

    "When the world gets in my face i say HAVE A NICE DAY"
      August 22, 2009 11:07 PM BST
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  • I'm trying to figure out if you're being sarcastic here or not.

    You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant.
      August 23, 2009 2:16 AM BST
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  • I'm not being sarcastic in the slightest Mere. I just feel that the head of the FBI has no business coming out & openly criticising the scottish government on a decision that was down to them alone.


    Anna-Marie
    "When the world gets in my face i say HAVE A NICE DAY"
      August 23, 2009 2:40 AM BST
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  • Firstly, I'm half-Scottish - no criticism implied.

    If he hadn't been received in Libya with such celebrations, then we might be applauding the mature, humanitarian stance taken by the Scottish Government. However, the televised reception has made a mockery of this act of compassion, and sadly has provided Gaddafi with an opportunity to taunt the West.
    The Scottish Minister was put in a difficult place. This was not the opportunity to define The Scottish Government as independent free-thinking humanitarians, but should have been the opportunity for Scotland to gain leverage on the world stage by openly inviting US, UK and European heads to discuss and determine the outcome. If a joint decision had been taken that he should remain incarcerated, then it would have been a shared one. On this occasion, independence has sadly encouraged isolation and negative reactions, and Scotland, doesn't deserve this.

    It's desperately sad to return the tragedy of Lockerbie to the newstands in this manner.
    a girl at heart and a proper person too
      August 23, 2009 9:25 AM BST
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  • I couldn't agree more with you Rachel, the Scots government were in a no-win situation where they were going to be slated whatever decision they came up with. I think it took Real courage for them to do what they did.


    As for the reception megrahi got in Libya on his return, it beggared belief & couldn't have been more wrong. They took advantage of the compassion shown by the Scots & threw it back in their faces.You are so right there, Scotland does not deserve to be treated in this way.



    lol xxxxxxxxxxx
    Anna-Marie
    "When the world gets in my face i say HAVE A NICE DAY"
      August 23, 2009 11:57 AM BST
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  • I believe the simple point Mere was trying to make was whether or not the end result was unexpected. Can you really say the reception Adbelbasset Ali Al-Megrahi received was unexpected? And compassion, you have to be kidding. Where was the compassion for those innocent people on that Lockerbie flight? And great courage? It took that same great courage to look the other way and appease Hitler allowing WWII.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
      August 23, 2009 12:08 PM BST
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  • AM...

    I've given it some thought and wisely did not post my first thoughts on the matter when you placed your thread up here for they were not going to be lady-like...you know I am dead set against the release. I have come to understand why Scotland did what they did, but I don't have to agree with it.

    To me, we are fighting a never ending battle of idealism, a war of cultures per say, that has existed since mankind has recorded their actions. The Crusades reignited the flames we're we're living thru today. The supposed religion of peace, when taken to the extremist level of activism we're witnessing in our generation, has taken the world hostage in ways that no huge armies (USA) can accomplish. Theirs is a thought out, planned process to topple "infidels" without the mess of bullets and weapons as seen in regions where fighting is going on.

    Why invest in a fight that they know they cannot win in the traditional method of warfare? Their scholarly clerics have determined that the weight of our own evil ways will be enough to bring us down and all they have to do is fuel the fire with a terrorist act here, a terrorist act there. People will become so timid of them that they will force their governments to waste resources in preparing and combating them. While this is going on, they chip away at the economic models of their enemies (that would be the capitalist countries). Couple this with collusion from radical organizations within these capitalist countries and we're witnessing an often silent battle of huge impact.

    Back to my point which is we're viewed as being soft, unwilling or unable to take up the fight. They are banking on this, as a premise of their fanaticism states that we are so morally bankrupt that we will back down in the face of threats and danger and not muster up the will to standup to them. It is in their culture to sacrifice for the greater good and that their reward will be eternal shacking up with a stable full of virgin girls. I mean, who wouldn't subscribe to that??? So to tie it in to the release, the gesture by Scotland has reinforced their beliefs about western civilization being soft and weak and has only created a whole new layer of whackos willing to die for the sex, errr cause. A hero's welcome upon release??? Sickening and most definitely a thumb in the eye to Scotland, the USA, and the rest...

    While I truly believe in kindness and humanitarianism to fellow world citizens, I also firmly believe that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And if we keep our heads in the sand and wish that bad things and people would go away instead of drawing the line and standing up to this, then we will be enablers and part of a future generation's line of questions as in "Why didn't they do something about this when they had the chance"? as our great grandchildren head to the temples to chant their prayers under Islamic watch.
    They are not going to stop this war...ever...are we willing to pay the price to insure individual's rights and freedoms? How many Tgirls do you think would exist say 100 years from now if left unchecked? It is this principal that prior generations were willing to give their lives to in order to protect other's rights.

    William Wallace (among other brave men and women) would be puking in his grave if he saw this...

    Traci xxxxx
    <p>Traci</p>
      August 23, 2009 1:17 PM BST
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  • what annoys me about this business of compassionate relases is when they miraculously get better or at least live a long time...Biggs was brought back to this country and has cost us maybe a £1million when he shoudl have been left to rot and die quickly in South Amercia...similarly who was the guy charged with a massive bank fraud and had the case dropped cos he was at deaths door only to be happily back at work a few weeks later...if this Libyan does die quickly then I'd say fair enough that he is sent home...but if he's alive and kicking and throwing s*** in our faces for another ten years then I'll agree that the FBI was right in saying no release.
      August 23, 2009 1:44 PM BST
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  • I hope most sincerely that America does not judge all of us from Britain for this. Some of us do understand what the fuss is all about.
      August 23, 2009 4:43 PM BST
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  • Released on compassionate/health grounds..........................this always annoys me and like Traci, I going to refrain from what I really want to say because I'm a lady. But my point is, so what if he's going to die soon? Tough, he should die in prison where he should still be paying for his crime. Ill health should in no way be a get out of jail free card!

    Perhaps the final decision should have come down the families of the victims.

    The Western world is becoming so soft, I wonder if it will still exist in another 100 years?

    Nikki
    Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.
      August 23, 2009 4:48 PM BST
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  • Well done Marsha, You plumbed new depths with your crass mention of the appeasement of Hitler, Chamberlain was undoubtedly wrong but by doing so allowed WWII? Don't talk such utter crap.

    Regarding this Scottish incident, I (being British) fully understand this act of compassion, how ever I believe they were wrong to release him as the end result was easily predictable.

    Huggles

    Becca
      August 23, 2009 5:06 PM BST
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  • Love you too Rebecca, nice to see you crawl out of your hole to add your usual color. I'm also glad to see we both agree the result was predictable.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
      August 23, 2009 5:14 PM BST
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  • 2 2627
    Life in prison should be life in prison. I thought that ment the rest of that persons life. He should have had to look at brick walls untill he died. The man had no compasion for those he killed, why show him any?
    The whole world questions what the U.S. does. But if someone from here questions another than just who the hell are we.
    <p>Karen Brad</p>
      August 23, 2009 5:48 PM BST
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  • Rebecca, to clarify the WWII statement, simply put, those who blindly want to believe the otherside will not choose to do harm are the same type of people who chose to ignore Hitler early on and allowed World War II to escalate to historical proportions. I am not blaming Britain or Scotland for WWII, but the ignorance of people around the world not to see what later was recognized as obvious. MacCaskill's release of Adbelbasset Ali Al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds is a pure mockery of law. As most have said here just as you and I, the result was predictable. So why did it happen? In my opinion it was MacCaskill's attempt to hold out the olive branch saying see we are nice people, do what you want but leave us alone and the terrorist world says to themselves, you weak idiots, we can get away with anything. And that is exactly what Hitler did.
    Hugs,
    Marsha
      August 23, 2009 6:06 PM BST
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  • No Alison...not the intelligent ones anyways...it's more an indictment on Western Civilization and our propensity for capitulating so easily...unlike our muslim "brothers" who have committed to reversing our influence.

    traci xxxx
    <p>Traci</p>
      August 23, 2009 6:06 PM BST
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  • Yes, the 'nicer' and 'more civilised' we try to behave, the more the other side will take advantage of it. History has shown that, and current events only confirm it further. What legacy are we leaving our children and grandchildren I wonder? Who knows, maybe it will come full circle and people will take a hardened view of crime once more, though sadly not before some devestating catastrophe has occured to galvanise them into doing so.

    Nikki
    Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.
      August 23, 2009 6:33 PM BST
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  • Nikki, are you suggesting we lower ourselves to the standards of the barbarians that attack us? should we throw away our principles, our compassion? This release was a mistake but we must maintain our way of life, our standards or our enemies will really have won.

    huggles

    Becca
      August 23, 2009 7:03 PM BST
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  • I don't think I said anything about lowering our standards, it's more about being on our guard and treating people appropriately. Our standards, if anything, should be raised, not lowered.

    Nikki
    Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.
      August 23, 2009 8:06 PM BST
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  • I hope this thread doesn't escalate out of control. The simple fact is that the decision to release El-Megrahi was essentially a political one and not taken purely on the grounds of compassion. The idea that it was taken by the Scots without reference to the British Government is naive in the extreme. Details of possible trade details having been negotiated in relation to the release of El-Magrahi are emerging all the time. There was also an appeal in the pipeline that may have revealed aspects of the case that the Authorities consider best left hidden. There are doubts as to the guilt of El-Megrahi. I am not familiar enough with the details of the case voice an opinion on this. It is well known, however, that El-Megrahi, was a Libyan intelligence agent and that Libya was a country that both carried out and sponsored terrorist attacks. I personally believe that Iran was behind the Lockerbie bombing but that is not to say that El Megrahi was not involved. Relations with Iran, as we know, are fragile at the moment and if it was revealed that they were behind the Lockerbie bombing then there would have to be a response and the West has its hands full with Iraq, Afghanistan and indeed Pakistan. Better that he die in Libya may be the view of the Authorities, but one has to wonder why he was given that hero's welcome if he had not done something in the service of his country to warrant it. The simple fact is that he was found guilty in a Court of Law of an abominable and unforgiveable crime, his co-accused was cleared of all charges. As such, he should have died in prison not worthy of our compassion. As a human being it is very easy to forgive anything. If I see someone cry I want to cry with them. Nikki is right that it displays our weakness but not in the sense that we no longer have the moral courage to make tough decisions or that the liberal values we espouse are essentially weak but rather that we are in thrall to those who have the supplies of energy we lack. The West has actually been fighting hard and paying a high price to defend the values we treasure. But they have made a mistake in trying to export them and have taken their eye off the ball in hitting the wrong targets. Whether we like it or not Great Britain and the United States are linked in being the societies, however imperfect, that the rest of the world should aspire to and be wanting to embrace. It is a shame that our actions often result in creating only resistance. The decision to release El-Megrahi should have been taken only in negotiations with the Americans, after all, the majority of the victims of Lockerbie were American citizens.
    Porscha
      August 23, 2009 8:48 PM BST
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  • Gonna be realy hard not to step on anynes toes in this thread and this subject.

    1. I think, not positive, but under the terms of the Hague convention on human rights, that a life term has a maximum period.
    wether that applies to people who were sentanced prior to that coming into force is debatable. Thats the UK goverments fault fo
    signing up to it.

    2. we don't know what political pressures were bought to bear on the Scotish justice secretary. by the UK goverment in London.

    3. Whilst the American feelings should have been taken into account, seeing most of the people that died were american that
    does not entitle them to try and control foreign goverment policies. Does the american goverment ever pay heed to requests from the
    British goverment?

    4 Why does the subject of WWII keep coming up, Should we be seen as an aggressor by getting in the first strike, Bomb first
    Ask questions and apologise after and then have to clear up and deal with the crap, Mmm weapons of Mass destructions and
    Iraque spring to mind.

    5. Was this bomber realy a bomber or made a scapegoat to appease Iran? and boost libyas acceptance in the muslim world, probably things
    we will never know, even under the pathetic information rights act some things will never be revealed if its considered to be in the states interest
    and security.

    Me personally, Life should mean life, Many of the american systems of justice appeal to me, they have a consecutive punishment system, where crimes are dealt with individually and punishments awarded for each crime are not all lumped together, ie do five crimes get a year for each, punishments to run concurrent, like here, they do five years, finish one punishment and then start the next. Comit two murders, no chance will they leave prison cept in a box. Unfortunately, like everyday occurances, there is no real justice for the aggreived or bereaved. The rights of the criminal seem to be paramount, that is what is destroying western society that and deluded law makers in Strasbourg.


    Crisitne

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 23, 2009 10:06 PM BST
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  • Marsha - yes it took balls for the Scottish Justice Minister Kenny Macaskill & the Scottish Goverment to make that decision, knowing they couldn't win whatever they decided & despite un-needed pressure from the US. Only time will tell if it was the " right decision".

    I Know i may only be Half Scottish, but i back the Scottish Goverment & First Minister Alex Salmond's stance on the matter 100%.

    This line from the letter Robert Mueller sent to Kenny Macaskill really made me laugh......

    "You have given Megrahi a "jubilant welcome" in Tripoli, according to the reporting". errrr, no they DIDN'T......the Libyans did that themselves.


    Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Anna-Marie


    "When the world gets in my face i say HAVE A NICE DAY"
      August 23, 2009 11:06 PM BST
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  • ***WARNING: MINAKO IS RANTING!!! SHE IS BEING UNLADYLIKE!!! YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED!!!***

    Did this take cojones on the part of the Scottish government?

    You betcha. Stainless Steel cojones, for all that.

    Style points for standing up to us crass, uncivilized Yanks, who all secretly dream of world domination. (Goddess, I'm so sick of hearing that line of crap.)

    You want uncivilized? You got it, kids. Little Miss Mercury's got her panties wadded up on this.

    Life in prison used to mean life in prison. As far as I am concerned, he should've been left there to rot, as should all people who get life sentences. They are considered a menace, and should be kept out of a "civilized" society. In point of fact, if I had my way, they'd have hung or shot him years ago.

    Never mind the heroes welcome he got when he got to whatever hole he crawled back to, to hopefully die within the next few weeks. I suspect there is a special place in Hades for folks like him, who blow planes full of innocent people out of the sky or run them into buildings. I don't care if an official of Libya was present or not.

    Let's not forget that 259 people died on the flight, plus 11 on the ground. Was getting on a Pan Am flight their life sentence? Was just happening to be on the ground in Lockerbie that day simply considered bad form?

    Or, was this the work of a deranged madman? You tell me.

    Sure, let him out on compassionate grounds, and ridicule us Yanks for being oversensitive. It's all in the past after all, and the man was dying of terminal prostate cancer. Let's be humane and civilized about this, and send him home for Ramadan.

    But I want a representative of the Scottish government to personally go to each surviving family and explain it to them. Tell it to the kids who lost a mom or dad. Tell it to a spouse that lost a mate. Talk to them about showing compassion.

    Mina
    Living as the woman I am!
      August 25, 2009 5:00 PM BST
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  • Minako, the guy's going to DIE anyway in a few months so why worry. I Do think that the scottish Justice minister Kenny Macaskill had a hard choice to make & one he could not win whatever he decided. And dont get me started on that arrogant head of the FBI, Robert Mueller wading in with his totally unwelcome comments like...." You have given Megrahi a "jubilant welcome" in Tripoli, according to the reporting". What complete & utter rubbish, the scots could not have foreseen what would happen to Megrahi when he was sent back to Libya & to blame them wholly for what happened was out of order. There were a few victim's families here who appeared on the News and much to my suprise said he should go back home to die. Are you going to tell me that they are wrong too?.



    Being only 1/2 Scottish myself, whats really got to me is fact that certain people over there, seem to have been bad-mouthing the ordinary scottish people & that is just WRONG!. I have just one thing to say to those who've set up the websites urging people to boycott the UK & Scotland and not to buy scottish goods......grow up, you're pathetic!


    Anna-Marie Trindall

    "When the world gets in my face i say HAVE A NICE DAY"
      August 25, 2009 11:08 PM BST
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  • Just a little something for all those the other side of the Atlantic who are bad-mouthing the Scots....... enjoy THIS!!!



    http://www.youtube.com/wa[...]eRKq1lE



    Anna-Marie
    "When the world gets in my face i say HAVE A NICE DAY"
      August 25, 2009 11:19 PM BST
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  • Anna-Marie, hon--

    That was beautiful. I loved the pipes!

    I have no qualms with the Scottish people. I question some of their officials--but in all fairness, I question all duly elected public officials...especially and particularly my own.

    And though I have chosen a Japanese surname and enjoy their culture and way of doing things, my true roots are Scot and Irish (both orange and green), with some English and Welsh thrown in. In short, I can have a civil war with myself.

    What I get tired of are people blaming me for the world's problems. My earlier rant had little to do with that, but holds true. I didn't want to go to war in Iraq; I saw that as a mistake of Vietnam era proportions. I didn't ask for my elected officials to solve the world's troubles; they do that on their own. I personally feel that each nation needs to work with all the others.

    But when a madman has killed 270 people and is returned home "to die", that makes no sense. True compassion would have dictated that the best medical care that could be brought to the prison be brought in, so this crazed idiot could serve out his time.

    That's where I took umbrage, hon. Not at you, nor the fine decent people of Scotland.

    And just to play fair, and in the spirit of peace and cooperation...http://www.youtube.com/wa[...]KL2zdjM

    Luv 'n hugs,

    Mina
    Living as the woman I am!
      August 26, 2009 12:17 AM BST
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