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Bravery/Courage or No Other Way

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  • >> Carol, I've spelt it out briefly @ May 12, 2013 2:48 AM EST   

    You should really get 'on trend' lol           

    Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:

    Chalice is arguing for something different, what I don't know as she will not spell it out, despite being asked on many occasions.

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 11, 2013 6:43 PM BST
      May 11, 2013 6:41 PM BST
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  • Traci, you are still lumping cross hormone therapy with the RLE - it isn't they are two distinct entities (and you answered before I had managed to finish my edit Laughing).  For me personally I would argue for hormones and electrolysis as a definite need prior to transition, but only under medical supervision - but no surgery until the person has done the RLE.

      May 11, 2013 6:42 PM BST
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  • Carol, I could align my ducks with that, however, there is much more available prior to RLE than just hormones and laser hair removal.

     

    Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:

    Traci, you are still lumping cross hormone therapy with the RLE - it isn't they are two distinct entities (and you answered before I had managed to finish my edit Laughing).  For me personally I would argue for hormones and electrolysis as a definite need prior to transition, but only under medical supervision - but no surgery until the person has done the RLE.

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 11, 2013 7:10 PM BST
      May 11, 2013 6:49 PM BST
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  • I'm backing out of this discussion...(smile)

    Ciao~

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 11, 2013 6:59 PM BST
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  • Well yeah! Haven't we done enough?

    Ideas need time to steep! lol

    Traci Lee O'Gara said:

    I'm backing out of this discussion...(smile)

    Ciao~

    Traci xoxo

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 11, 2013 7:15 PM BST
      May 11, 2013 7:14 PM BST
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  • I'm basically a thread killer Chalice! LOL

    xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 11, 2013 8:53 PM BST
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  • Those who are not treated in adolescence may continue to struggle to conform; they may embark on relationships, marriages and parenthood in an attempt to lead ‘normal’ lives by suppressing their core gender identity. Ultimately, however, they may be unable to continue with the charade of presenting themselves as something they know they are not. The artificiality of their situation drives individuals to seek treatment to minimise the mismatch between the brain and the bodily appearance. They experience an overwhelming need to be complete, whole people and to live in accordance with their internal reality. Until this is achieved, the personal discomfort is such that it leads to great unhappiness and sometimes to suicidal feelings.

     

    An extract from something I wrote some time ago     http://gendersociety.com/articles/231/gender-variant-people

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      May 11, 2013 9:34 PM BST
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  • got some of that minoxidol from boots today got there own brand in spray form .. will start to use

    it was £20 for a months worth and to be used 2x daily

    and your not kidding that "laser comb by Hair Max" thing is expensive will have to save up a little for that wish i had the money

      May 11, 2013 9:49 PM BST
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  • Good for you Rebecca!  I pay around $22 US for 3 months of the liquid using the store brands...I have way too much hair for the foam to work deep into my scalp!  It will take quite a while to see results, so be patient.  One day you'll notice a whole bunch of tiny little hairs pokibg thru you other hair...guess what?  They grow!!!  (smile)

    Best wishes always!

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 11, 2013 10:30 PM BST
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  • those stores dont happen to deliver to the uk do they ??

      May 11, 2013 10:39 PM BST
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  • I think it is imperative that early identification and intervention is developed and implemented as soon as possible. To not do so is immoral and unethical. The repression of gender identity has tragic consequences. In my case, it was like a puppy peaking out from under the bed covers, threatening to jump out and play only to be thwarted by the big dogs, which ultimately resulted in rampaging, suicidal werewolf like episodes. If societies can foster and perpetuate the heterosexual model to those who ultimately prove unsuitable, surely similar variants of interpersonal relationships for those more apt could be supported.

    I might take a raincheck on your article just for now. I've just spent two weeks on the last two Carol has initiated. But I will come back to it.  

    Next time I ask: Where are the articles, journals, books and readings, I'll be more circumspect. lol.    

    <3 

    ~*!*~        

    Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:

    Those who are not treated in adolescence may continue to struggle to conform; they may embark on relationships, marriages and parenthood in an attempt to lead ‘normal’ lives by suppressing their core gender identity. Ultimately, however, they may be unable to continue with the charade of presenting themselves as something they know they are not. The artificiality of their situation drives individuals to seek treatment to minimise the mismatch between the brain and the bodily appearance. They experience an overwhelming need to be complete, whole people and to live in accordance with their internal reality. Until this is achieved, the personal discomfort is such that it leads to great unhappiness and sometimes to suicidal feelings.

    An extract from something I wrote some time ago     http://gendersociety.com/articles/231/gender-variant-people

     

    This post was edited by Former Member at July 11, 2014 10:09 PM BST
      May 12, 2013 1:02 AM BST
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  • Edited*

    Introducing 

    ^*_*^   &   ~*!*~

    This post was edited by Former Member at May 12, 2013 10:49 AM BST
      May 12, 2013 1:29 AM BST
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  • Chalice, quite often it is the parents who repress the outward manifestations of transgender behaviour in their child and it is only open minded parents who might worry about their child's bhaviour and seek help from their medical practitioner.  This is a societal problem and not caused by the medical profession for not spotting and identifying it in the child.

    It is becoming easier these days and more and more children are presenting as transgender these days, the Portman Institute has reported a doubling of numbers in the number of cases reporting each year over the past 4 or 5 years.  In this day of the 'Blame Culture' it is all too easy to start pointing the finger and saying, it was their fault, they repressed me and didn't allow myself to be me.  Well that is all very well up to the age of around 16, but as an adult, if you had known about how you felt about yourself, then any blame has to stop with you - nobody else.  Take Rebecca for example - she has taken control of her own destiny now and is in her early twenties.  Forty years ago in the dark ages, I did the same in my late 20's.  Stop blaming others, it is you yourself that is keeping you a prisoner - just open the cell door and walk out, if you want to.

      May 12, 2013 8:51 AM BST
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  • Lucy Diamond said:
    I actually thought it was a well written article, though I wouldn't agree with all the points made. But the article did tend to suggest that you can't make sweeping statements for the whole TG world; gender issues manifest themsleves in many different ways. Chalice, you have a real problem with the whole RLE thing. In a way so did I before I started on it, it's hard not to be a little nervous about it. I feel it was a leap of faith, not brave, but perhaps just a teeny bit of courage doesn't go amiss. When I changed my name and everything that went with it and actually got out there and did it, you know it wasn't too bad at all. It is after all a means to an end, and at the end of the day you don't have to do if you don't want to. I'm not going to try and tell anyone how they should transition, but I would suggest that they take control, do it how they want, and basically just get on with it if they really want to live and be accepted as female. Also when reading articles like these, I feel compelled to tell others that not everyone suffers "psychological anguish" when transitioning, indeed in my case transitioning in no uncertain terms put an end to all that. RLE, everything that comes with it and after it, is not hell for all of us, not humiliating or distressing, and we don't necessarily suffer abuse... ever! Sure, sure, I'm lucky, must be blessed or something eh? Or maybe I just got out there, bit the bullet and did it, and found the experience to be the start of the rest of my real life. If you intend to live as a woman you're going to have to start one day. Your circumstances may not allow that, or the voice in your head may not allow it, mine did. It's there if you want it. xx

     

    Brilliantly put Lucy.

    This post was edited by Princess Layla at May 12, 2013 10:30 AM BST
      May 12, 2013 10:29 AM BST
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  • Carol, I am sure there are further issues and they also need their time on the board. But it takes days, if not weeks, to carefully consider how to respond to different articles and then construct a response that doesn't simply skirt over the dilemmas they present. I've had my fill of this article.

    Nevertheless, the current state of transsexuality and its reception and acceptance in society has no peer, particularly for those contemplating, preparing for, or living, transition. Dialogue is essential to the expansion and development of an anthropology, philosophy, even a theology of transexuality. Its early days yet. 

    I should also thank you for putting up the article.

    Sincerely

    Thank you

    ~*!*~

    This post was edited by Former Member at July 11, 2014 10:10 PM BST
      May 12, 2013 10:34 AM BST
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  • Perhaps if you replied in plain English instead of slaving over gobbledgook in your replies, it would take you far less time LOL

      May 12, 2013 10:38 AM BST
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  • lol If you look at my comments again you might see that they are plain English. Think of it as the result and consequence of your English School System that was adopted by your antipodes.   

    Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:

    Perhaps if you replied in plain English instead of slaving over gobbledgook in your replies, it would take you far less time LOL

     

      May 12, 2013 10:46 AM BST
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  • You know Carol does have a point; Chalice you wouldn't win any Plain English Awards. The original article was much easier reading than your considered responses to it!
    Your meandering rhetoric seems to end up saying that "something needs to be done..."
    At the very least, surely it's understandable that the medical profession really wants to make sure that people with this condition, which is largely self-diagnosed, are actually what they think they are, and that all ensuing, non-reversible treatments are appropriate. I'm sure they would get a much harder time if they were to dish out hormones, tracheal shaves, voice surgery or whatever to anyone who pops into their GP and announces "I am TS, fix me!"
    As I said earlier, I had issues with RLE before I did it, but it really shouldn't be anticipated as something abhorrent. It is outrageous to say that this is something that is imposed on us "knowing" we will be subject to "violence and abuse" because of it. I was attacked by thugs when I lived as a male, it hasn't happened to me yet as female. Perhaps a less than macho man is a bit of a soft target, more so even than a slightly male looking woman.
    Also, RLE does not have an end date, nor necessarily a fixed start date. It is something you can ease yourself into, and it's not something that the medical profession can entirely prepare you for. I strongly question the assumption that violence and abuse is directed only to those TS's going through RLE. I'm not being naieve; as soon as you come out as TS you place yourself in a minority group, always a potential target for narrow minded meat-head individuals. But as I say, RLE doesn't really have an end point, it is simply the beginning of the rest of your life. TS's may be attacked, but not necessarily because they are in early stages of RLE. Anyone can be attacked for any or no reason. Personally, I feel safer as a woman.
    Transition is called that for a reason; it can only be a gradual change. You won't one day be magically ready to go out and be accepted by the whole world; if you are waiting for that you will be waiting forever. For it's only by doing it that you will learn from your mistakes and triumphs. These will improve your presentation more than an initiation of hormones or electrolysis, which affect you subtly rather than magically. But on those subjects...
    Here in the UK, electrolysis is almost never provided by the NHS (I've heard of one or two who have fought and won this right, but it's extremely rare). So it's something that must be undertaken by the individual. Before I transitioned, online TG groups everywhere made constant reference to the need to begin electrolysis before going full-time. Basically it's something that you can and probably should do yourself. No-one in the medical profession is going to stop you from doing this. Sure, it would be nice if they provide it in all cases, but one must keep a grip on reality...
    As for hormones, the situation varies from country to country, and probably always will. Treatment for GD therefore varies accordingly. But if you can buy hormones in your country, once again the medical profession is not going to stop you from doing this, though they may suggest that you don't. Contrary to some misinformation out there, the NHS will not refuse to treat you if you are self-medicating. Disclaimer: No-one should self-medicate unsupervised! Blood tests are still free on the NHS.
    Whether or not you should actually be prescribed hormones prior to transition is debatable. Effects will sooner or later become irreversible. One may think it's "unethical" to not prescribe them immediately, it could also be considered equally unethical to do so.
    I'm going on a bit, sorry. My point is, whilst I agree that the medical profession does need to evolve in its approach to this relatively "modern" condition (at least as far as they are concerned), such a massive change in one's life must be taken control of by the individuals themselves. If you want to live as female for the rest of your life, then one day you are going to have to start doing it, yourself!
    There is plenty you can do to prepare for going full-time, in fact plenty you must do. It all seems a bit sad to me that some of us expect the medical profession to groom us for that day; "Give me hormones, electrolysis, maybe some minor surgery... and THEN I will be ready to come out to the world..."
    Yes, we'd all like that before we come out, but is it really practical? Could it not in some cases be a little reckless?
    I'm not defending the medical profession, I am promoting self-governance. How you live your life is down to you, it's your job to take control.
    My RLE simply meant I started living as a woman, it wasn't a living hell, far from it. It wasn't some sort of psychological abuse, it wasn't imposed on me; it was what I wanted, which is why I went to the doctor's in the first place, to see if they could help me with it. And you know what? They did.
    I'm really grateful for the help they gave me, we worked together for my benefit.
     
    Those of you who haven't yet started living full-time, should not be imposing your own fears of RLE onto all who may read these forums. We are/were probably all apprehensive of taking these steps, but those of us who have come out the other side will tell you that it's the best thing we ever did. It is a change for the better, the beginning of our "real" lives, the road to happiness.
    Stay in your closet or be androgynous for as long as you like, but it's up to you to prepare yourself for going full-time, you will do that a lot quicker than you will trying to change "socio-political attitudes" or medical practices.
    By all means, if you feel inclined, give the medical profession a kick up the bum, but don't use them as an excuse for not coming out because you think they are approching it all wrong, and more importantly, don't put others off making their own changes by suggesting that they will be tortured and abused by the very people who are actually there trying to help them.
    Real life, is a wonderful experience. RLE is simply the beginning of that realisation.
    xx This post was edited by Lucy Diamond at July 11, 2014 10:15 PM BST
      May 12, 2013 1:13 PM BST
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  • Very powerful words and emotions Lucy - most of which I agree with.  If Chalice has doubts about transitioning she should not be projecting her own fears about transitioning on others, people are particularly vulnerable at this point in their lives and to be constantly harping on about the difficulties is not particularly helpful for those intent on transitioning.

    To anybody who is considering transitioning, this is meant to be one of the most joyous occasions in your life, don't let people ruin this for you because of their own self doubts or timidity.

      May 12, 2013 1:30 PM BST
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  • Lucy just about sums it all up, well thought out explanation.  

     

    Perhaps some of the posts here should be transfered to the procrastination thread, Innocent

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      May 12, 2013 2:51 PM BST
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  • I've told you before Crissie, sometimes your humour can be just plain wicked (lol)

    xxx

      May 12, 2013 3:05 PM BST
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  • What we have here is the perfect example of respected women like Lucy Carol and Crissie (and others including myself) telling of what real life is all about and one person who pretends to know what real life is all about. People will never get anywhere in life just talking about it and doing nothing.

     

    I still say and will keep saying it that if any person says they have gender dysphoria and can go through life doing nothing about it then they do not have it or suffer from it. You can hide from it for a while but it will get you in the end and then and only then can anyone come here and preach about it .

     

    Some very interesting posts here and some very very confusing ones.

     

    Julia xx

    This post was edited by Former Member at July 11, 2014 10:17 PM BST
      May 12, 2013 3:28 PM BST
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  • That was an incredibly well thought out post Lucy!  Thanks for taking the time to share your feelings and thoughts on this.

    Traci xoxo

    <p>Traci</p>
      May 12, 2013 3:30 PM BST
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  • I agree Traci Lucy sums it all up . And there should be no fear in transition. Sometimes bad things happen to us but bad things happen to all people from all walks of life.

     

    xxx

      May 12, 2013 3:33 PM BST
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  • I have had very little to add to this thread, but watched with interest.  Why? because my circumstances were a lot different.   I was frightened, had a lot of uncertainties, knew very little, 

     

    I still wonder, is it more dificult to transition later in life after you have established a 'life' or younger.   

     

    The feelings of being transgendered, although at the time I had'nt a clue what that was, were savagely kicked out of me.   At 12 years old, I was ''a pervert, a Fking queer, a disgrace, not in this family. no son of mine''   I started RLE at 16. nothing official, led a somewhat secluded and quiet 2 years and then went of to join a community that was all accepting in 2001, got used to myself and did'nt have surgery till 2007.    There will always be a certain amount of trepadation with taking on challenges.   the thought of the prize at the end, surely must be the ultimate satisfaction in whatever one does,  hobbies, to look on something and be able to say to yourself ''I made that'' not for anyone else, but for ones own satisfaction, life is like that, not for anyone else, just to be able to say I won, I made it.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at May 12, 2013 3:58 PM BST
      May 12, 2013 3:56 PM BST
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