Doanna Highland said:

Cristine,

"It sounds like that if we are made unwelcome, we should kow tow and slink away.   Is that other peoples rights over us?"

If I feel uncomfortable or unwelcome in a place...then it is also my right to not go back to that place.

If I join a "movie club" and find out they only show gay movies, or some other form of movies that make me feel either conspicuous, or unwelcome or uncomfortable. Should they be made to change the style of movies they show?

Or should I quit going to that movie club?

Personally, I would quit going to that movie club.... because it is also my right.

I wouldn't consider that as "cow-towing and slinking away" and neither would I consider it as another persons rights superceding my rights.

 

My point is...sometimes "rights clash with each other" and I don't think anyone can win in that kind of situation.


doanna just made a gd point but there is more to it ... its one thing just uping and walking out tho some clubs etc like to know why ... half the stuff we use today is because the person who desided to create it tuck in what ppl said about it so it could be improved ... and the things that failed is because they didnt listen or wernt told.

there have been a few times mentioned that the owner of the above pub didnt know why they were closed perhaps its because ppl didnt tell the owner or the ppl who closed it dont even know why and are maybe just been told to do it by our homophobic tory party who knows.... and just to put this out there is nothing wrong with where he put his bar if theres something wrong with that area that has been clearly stated its not the bar at fault its the policing of that area thats at fault ... no cameras in the area well thats what u pay your taxes for... get them to put them up have a few police officers on beat around the area!
...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................



the problem with the police today is they dont get money from cameras in the street out there to protect someone else from someone that wishes to hurt others ...and rather spend it on cameras out in the middle of nowhere and a strait stretch of road to fine ppl who are just been silly speeding but rarely hurt anyone ... i think if ppl regularly get attacked around there and it hasnt been addressed then perhaps u should be writing to the head of your local police about maybe making that area more safe than just removed yet another business further adding to our countries demise 


theres 1 thing cameras do stop this sort of thing ... peterlee town-center never gets anything happen and if it does its because the person is completely crazy or something and i thing theres only about 100sq ft in the entire town that isnt watched by cameras .... hartlepool has non zipo and a few weeks ago some arshole put all the windows out in all the shops on the front street why nobody knows but its wasnt hate who could hate wilkos and the british heart foundation etc ... they dont know who did it but something tells me if they had cameras the crime would probs never happened and if it did they would have the person by now and ppl get attacked on the main street all the time if u happen to get up early enough on sat morning u often find blood etc before the shop keepers kindly hose the place down ...

ppl always talk about cameras as suppressive well when im in town theres nothing them cameras do to me im not planing on doing anything other than walk down the street get the stuff i need and thats it ... when i see cameras i just look it as well atleast iv got a shield some person is behind that thing making sure im safe ...

And wouldn't it be nice to live together

In the kind of world where we belong

You know it seems the more we talk about it

It only makes it worse to live without it

But lets talk about it

Wouldn't it be nice

A good point is made about insisting on our rights. Sometimes the resistance we encounter is only superficial and tacit.

It must be ten years ago now that I first went into two shops and the proprietors staunchly refused to allow me to buy anything. But, by objecting that they were being discriminatory both places relented. The two shops became regular favourites and one of the shop owners in particular became a personal friend.

Sometimes, being assertive can have unexpected results.

Notwithstanding, it is perfectly legal, at least in this country to put up a sign reading, "Straight Couples Only" just as it would be someone else's prerogative to hang a sign saying: "Transsexuals Only" It is not difficult to imagine where either cases might apply.       

 

~*!*~

Thank you Cristine and Carol for cleaning this mess up. I should never had started the thread , its in my home town and I was just pleased it was closed before anyone got hurt or even killed.

 

So stupid question did you miss me? Don't answer I know it . I was rushed off to a place I did not intend to be over this weekend and I am back home now . I feel weak and drained so I am not hanging around.

 

Looking back on this has made me come to a decision . I am not going to leave this site but I will no longer be playing any part in any forum ever again. I will also not even make a comment on the home page again.

I have opinions just as we all do but my opinions seem to invite trouble so I am going to keep them to myself. I will only log in here to answer messages and thats where it ends.

 

I made a promise to Katie that I would help her to keep this site going and get better , I will stick by that promise even though I will not really be using the site. This website is important to a lot of people and that is the only reason I will continue to support it.

 

I have tried and failed here! I have tried to make points and they end up in a mess. I recently posted something in the Make up Tips forum just to try to bring a bit of fun back and even that failed , it was just supposed to be a laugh not turn into Militant.

 

At Christmas I made 2 videos for Youtube , one funny which I uploaded (it was me doing my impression of Her Majesty) I removed it the next day as it had close to 800 hits in less than 24 hours . The second one I made was a serious one which I never did upload but still have here on one of my PCs . I said I will not make anymore posts on this website but I would just like to find that video and edit it a bit plus add something to it aswell. As I said it was Christmas so the music on it may seem out of place for this time of year but it is the words in a certain song that have the meaning to the video.

So I am not breaking my promise , I cannot upload it now as I have no idea where it is plus I need , as I said to edit it and add something so if you don't mind I will do that later and put the link here and that is the last you will hear from me in any forum. If you do mind then just say so and I will leave it there.

 

Thank you again Cristine and Carol . I know you don't get payed for cleaning up the mess here but you are both a very important part of this place.

All of you take care and I really have to go .

 

Julia x

I have edited it and added something to it. Put Fizzy Drinks out of your head and Xmas and if you have 8 minutes and 1 second to spare then feel free to take a look . It is really just my dream .

 

 

I had to delete the video and just make an alteration to it so it is now back. This is not aimed at Transgenders it is going to be aimed at the general public , they are the ones that need to learn. The link is below.

 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/o8skO_hfiqc

 

I am out of the forums here now.

 

Julia.

This post was edited by Former Member at May 28, 2013 12:37 PM BST

Lucy and I were made very welcome in Frenchies. I think we were the only two guests – it was about midnight. I don't recall whether it was a gay bar or a TG friendly place, or even whether Lucy or I found it. This was 9 years ago!
 
I think it might have been my first night out dressed as well. I remember my heart pounding as we left the safety of the hotel room. But no-one gave us a funny look. It made me think that Edinburgh was a very welcoming place for people like us.
 
Catherine xxx

Doanna Highland said:

Melissa, I'm glad that landlady was so helpful to you.

Slightly apart from that, I wonder what would happen if a person approached a pub that had an almost exclusive Gay clientele and asked the owners if they would make one of the nights of the week a "TG" night? If the owners agreed...GREAT! But if the owners refused because they would lose too much business from the regular clientele finding another bar, what recourse would that person have? Would it be the owners fault - or the clienteles fault?

Do the owners not have a right to look after their financial interests?
 

Sorry, Doanna, you misunderstand. The landlady hasn't helped me, I'm helping her. (I helped her and her partner move into the pub some months ago!)

 

What they are doing is thinking of ways to make the pub more profitable on typically quiet days. Ie:- Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays. (When lots of other places are shut!) So she asked for my help, not the other way round. So they are not doing anything to lose business on busy nights, just trying to make more of the quiet ones. A TG support group night every other Tuesday seemed an excellent idea, as Burton has needed one for years. If it had had one 5 years ago when I started my transition, then I wouldn't have had to go to Birmingham to learn the basics...

Chalice Brendale said:

It must be ten years ago now that I first went into two shops and the proprietors staunchly refused to allow me to buy anything.

~*!*~

In  5 years of normal living (as a female) I have never once had anyone at any shop give me any problem. It is their job to provide good customer service. That is what they are paid for. What were you wearing? Was it appropriate?

Melissa said:-

What they are doing is thinking of ways to make the pub more profitable on typically quiet days. Ie:- Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays. (When lots of other places are shut!) So she asked for my help, not the other way round. So they are not doing anything to lose business on busy nights, just trying to make more of the quiet ones.

Well as long as they accept trans people dressed on other nights of the week with the same welcome, then that is fine, but if trans people were made to feel unwelcome during their busy periods, then it would be just exploitation.

Hmmm - doesn't look too much of a dive to me.  See this report in the Pink News:-

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/06/07/ipswich-supporters-of-gay-friendly-pub-stage-sit-in-as-landlord-faces-court-action/

Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:

Hmmm - doesn't look too much of a dive to me.  See this report in the Pink News:-

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/06/07/ipswich-supporters-of-gay-friendly-pub-stage-sit-in-as-landlord-faces-court-action/

 

 

 

I had a look online to see what I could find about this pub. Although it does appear to have had a bit of a dodgy past, since this current landlord took over, it appears to have taken on a new lease of life. A search for the pub online reveals plenty of information and some photos from the interior and it certainly doesn't look like a dive to me! Seriously....if this is a dive, then compred to some of the Rock and Goth clubs I go in..... its almost paradise!

 

They obviously have live music there as a few bands have posted pictures from when they have played there and it looks like quite a modern bar. 

 

I can't comment on the clientelle, but I suspect that if ths landlord has done the amount of work required to bring this bar up to such a high standard,  then he is probably in no hurry to see it run down by rough customers.... and given the amount of support he seems to be getting, I can't see the scum of the Earth types being the ones who create things like this...... http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/punch-taverns-keep-james-iannone-at-the-grinning-rat-and-save-suffolk-s-only-gay-pub  

 

 

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswich_landlord_of_thriving_gay_pub_the_grinning_rat_claims_he_has_been_given_just_a_week_to_leave_the_premises_1_2202022

 

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/ipswich_we_will_not_be_moved_supporters_of_the_grinning_rat_pub_back_landlord_as_he_faces_eviction_1_2225697

 

http://www.felixstowestar.co.uk/news/news_2_6908/ipswich_landlord_of_grinning_rat_foils_eviction_bid_by_locking_himself_inside_with_protesters_1_2215594

 

 

Not living in the area, & only having the benifit of newspaper articals to go by. Which are generally subject to personal interpretation.

I`m at a loss at how anyone who doesn`t live nearby, can disagree with Julia`s beliefs it`s a good thing.. I also believe there should be safe places, for those not confident enough to visit straight pubs & clubs or whatever. These places, I`m sure in general. Are welcoming of straight regulars too. So that should help intergration between genders. Having visited the Way out club in Londons years ago. I know it was their policy to welcome, as they put it. Boys, Girls & inbetweenies. I`ll admit I found it less than wonderful, but maybe I`d have felt better dressed as a girl. There was plenty of admirers there, & the antics of some of the girls. was less than ladylike. The cabaret, was pretty much just one sexual inuendo after another. saying that. some of the girls were truely stunning, & seemed to really enjoy the attention they got. I doubt I`ll ever visit there again alone. As I was hit upon by some of the working girls there too. If I ever do go back it would be dressed & with other girls. It did come across as a little seedy to me, & to be honest, I`d have called it a bit of a dive, but others obviously loved it. Obviously there is a need for places like this, but to agree with Julia on this point. It should be ok to visit anywhere & feel at ease, irrellivent of gender. Alas, that isn`t yet the case. We may have equal rights accross the board. For race, creed, colour or gender, by law. Implimenting it is still an issue. It is also a law, that the management has the right to refuse service to whoever they feel inclined not too. (Unless that`s been changed) So there will be times when equal rights cancel out one & other.

There is now an online petition to save this pub (as found by Nicola) at http://tinyurl.com/qc8m76f and I found it interesting to read the many comments, many from local people which I have reproduced below:-

GORDON FISHER IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        15 days ago        Liked 2
    very odd...the grinning rat never took off after the name change from the olive leaf and for years they were looking for a licensee. yet 4 months after the pub has been regenerated they find one ? as an investor i will not invest in punch taverns if they behave like this to their landlords

    Susan potter  IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 2
Great pub where every one meets,gay or straight ,no trouble just fun and laughter


    Louisa Yallop NORWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 2
    As a straight person I think we need more of this sort of exciting, diverse venue NOT yet another chain pub!

    Dave Cresswell IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        15 days ago        Liked 1
    Totally agree with everything that's been said in support of James and his staff. Under James's management the grinning rat is busier now than at any time since I've been in Ipswich (3 yrs). Many's the time, even on a Friday and Saturday night, I have walked past and the place has been empty!! James in 4 months has built a thriving business and provided a much needed venue for the gay community in Ipswich. My only conclusion is that, despite the income the pub must now be producing for Punch, they do not want to be seen supporting a gay business much to their shame.

    Mark Marvin NOTTINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM        17 days ago        Liked 1
    I have heard of numerous cases like this and it is time the unscrupulous Pubco's were bought to book!

    Tracey Mouncer NORWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        18 days ago        Liked 1
    The fact that it's the only gay pub in the whole of Suffolk is a good enough reason to stay open. But It's also making a profit, so whats the problem? Suffolk needs a gay pub!

    Sharon Lawley IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        18 days ago        Liked 1
    Although I am straight, I have many gay friends and use this lovely, welcoming pub to socialise with them on occasion. In an ideal world there should be no need for "gay" pubs but in how many heterosexual pubs would the public shows of affection for our partners, that we straight couples do unthinkingly , be found acceptable? The Gay Community in Suffolk needs somewhere to feel safe, accepted and unjudged as they have every right to be!


    Katie Baskett IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    A place where anyone can go without the need to justify themselves. Fun, laughter, music, beer, food, acceptance, equality, great people.... what more could anyone want? Hats off to the fella who can accomplish so much in such a short space of time.

    Gillian Cobb NORWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    This pub is better than all three that we have in Norwich and I and my friends are happy to make a 100 mile round trip to go there. That is how good the pub is.

    Sam Bird LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    The grinning rat has been an amazing development, It essentially saved the life of a friend of mine who was contemplating suicide before he found such a welcoming community there.

    Tracie Dixon LINCOLN, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    It is important to keep gay bars open just as much as the locals I have many gayfriends who feel more comfortable umongst their own without noone frowning on them ours in lincoln closed for a while and it was bad for them. If the business is successfull and thriving let it be ..punch you are a law un to your own and feel you can change anything at the drop of a hat find a heart coz you aint got one and leave this pub as it is

    Alan james pratt IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    The rat is a great venue with excellent service that deserves to stay theres always a good atmosphere and there is no other place like it at the moment, plus the obvious its the only gay pub about and people feel acceptted in there regardless of there identitiy! its just a great place to go and it angers me that it has been or feels like it has been targeted when i cant see anything wrong with it!! if the reason is because its a gay run pub i am fuming because theres not like there is alot of gay freindly venues around ipswich only bettys so why would you want to take away the only, and i would say successfull venue it just doesnt seem fair on the staff who have worked hard and the loyal customer who go there to get away from lifes stresses why dont you make ipswich better by keeping this pub the way it is!

    Helen Knowles COLCHESTER, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    it is vital that LGBT have a safe venue for them to socialise in away from the prejudices that are often apparent in more mainstream venues. the fact that the grinning rat is the only gay pub in suffolk is a selling point not a negative one, especially when the current landlord, James, has increased trade during his time there

    Adrian Crouch CORSHAM, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    Because success should be rewarded. To fail to do so begs the question why? What do you have against a thriving, profitable tenant? People will form their own conclusions.

    Sarah Walker NORWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        19 days ago        Liked 1
    This is a popular friendly pub which serves a real need in the area and I can hardly believe the pubco wants to close it.

    Rachel Heyburn STOWMARKET, UNITED KINGDOM        20 days ago        Liked 1
    There seems to be no justification in removing the franchise of what is becoming an extremely viable pub. Furthermore as it has become of enormous value to the LGBT community it would seem to be somewhat small-minded to deprive a sizable minority of a safe haven. Surely the success of the publican in creating a thriving community venue should be lauded not denied!.....

    Marian Hellen IPSWICH, UNITED KINGDOM        20 days ago        Liked 1
    James has provided a safe, welcoming environment in the Grinning Rat and is doing great business there. There is no way he should be having to leave for someone to come in on an unproven business plan when James has built up a large and loyal clientele from nothing and is going from strength to strength. It doesn't make any sense and makes me suspicious of Punch's motives.

Edited to remove one postal address

This post was edited by Former Member at June 10, 2013 8:31 PM BST

I read a lot of them reviews of the pub as well Carol.

 

Out of curiosity, I e-mailed a freind of mine who lives outside Ipswich, but works in the centre and she knows this place and as far as she is aware from the people she knows who have been there, it is actually a decent place. 

 

She said it did used to be a bit rough once upon a time, but since it was taken over and done up it has made a good name for itself. Judging by the amount of people who have so far signed the petition to save it, I think that whatever the landlord did to the place has obviously been a success and people have appreciated it, otherwise why else would they be trying to save it? 

 

As for disagreeing with Julia's beliefs Daisy.... Its not always necessary to agree with someone if you are willing to put in a bit of work to find out answers to something. Its kind of like reading a review of a movie by a critic who is trying to make a name for themself...... they decide they don't like it, so they proceed to tear something apart the best they can in order to try and make people avoid it. Personally, I never take any notice of critics as most of them have their heads too far up thier own backsides, so the only thing they can talk is s**t! I prefer to do my research and find out first hand if something is okay or not. The way I see it is.... if over 700 people sign a petition to save it and as Carol has posted above, there are more than a fair share of people who have good things to say about it, then I am certainly more inclined to give it the benefit of doubt and accept the views and opinions of many people who could quite easily have just stood by and said nothing over the comments of someone who clearly has an issue with a bar that she herself says....she has never been in!

 

Then i stand corrected Nicola. I`m sure your right, with all this research you`ve done

Now this is the kind of debate I used to like! 

 

To each their own. I have never set foot in a TG friendly bar/club and nor am I ever likely too. It's just not for me. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, it has simply never held an attraction for me. To be honest I would feel quite uneasy. I've only ever used regular bars etc so my experieces in comiing out and living as a woman has been quite different from most. 

 

Regardless, I can see both sides of the argument here. Not having an LGBT place 'forces' you to go to a regular place instead, of course you have to be comfortable with that, which, for many girls is way too scary and even more so if they are unable to pass in the street. It would simply keep them indoors and in the closet. Now where's the fun in that?!!

 

Nikki

 Perhaps the people who want a "TG friendly" place to replace the one mentioned in this forum should get together (financially) and start such a bar on their own...