Do the american people want another war?

  • September 1, 2013 12:43 PM BST

    Do the americans feel the UK has copped out, let them down over Syria.    Another unwinable war and the ensuing aftermath, yes its terrible if the Syrian government used chemical weapons. but will a few well aimed rockets, deter the government policy there.    Iraque, Afghanistan, whatever we seem to do, despots extremists will get back into power, greed and avarice, business as usual.  


    What does concern me we only seem to worry about the plight of Middle eastern countries, oil producers, there is more murder and oppression in African countries that seem to go unchecked.   Syria no troops on the ground, justs strategic missile strikes, we all know just how strategic those strikes can be, more innocent people killed, all the refugees fled to turkey and neighbouring countries, why don't they go back and fight for their own freedom and salvation?


    Limited response, it should be all or nothing if we are determined to rid the world of oppresion and evil, but can the west afford it, the UK reducing the number of their soldiers every year.


    Would a mandate/vote of the American people support the present considered action, can the americans afford it?

    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at September 1, 2013 12:45 PM BST
    • 48 posts
    September 1, 2013 1:42 PM BST
    Even if you can set aside the questionable "world police" mantle and the even more distasteful fact that "we" have used chemical weapons like depleted uranium in recent memory, the gung-ho, " we will just lob a few carefully targeted missiles through selected keyholes..." approach just does not work.

    Also, there is scant regard for history, older and newer, in these plans. We we ever learn? I doubt it.

    To answer your specific point Cristine; no, I am not sure the American people would wear this, but generally, they are fed on a carefully selected news diet ( no offence meant by the way). While I thought that neither Cameron or Milliband emerged with any credit from the vote last week, the refreshing thing was that our mistrust of politicians now means that they are not in a position to ride roughshod over democracy like Blair did 10 years ago.

    Thanks for posting this Cristine.
    This post was edited by Emma Gee at September 1, 2013 1:43 PM BST
  • September 1, 2013 3:11 PM BST

    as an exsoldier most americans do not want war. Be cause it us poor people that will have to do the actual fighting. not the political or the rich people.  It wil be our son and daughters  that will bare the blunt of any action or retailiations.

     new age war seems to seem simple but the technicians doing the activations dont see the carnage on Ground zero but from Satilite photos,  it  was mentioned that these were oil based countries, yes they are , but in reality america base of oils is not come from there , its europe . well that all the info of this i have recieved as of my self .

  • September 1, 2013 3:25 PM BST

    I honestly don't know how I feel about it, mixed feelings I guess.  Emma's got a point about the news, and I think it's the same everywhere, and anyone, anywhere, on this earth, that thinks their own government doesn't lie to them is a fool.  Crissy's comment about Africa strikes a chord of things closer to home for me.  Living in Mexico's backyard, having travelled there a lot, and seeing how corrupt things are there and how the people are oppressed, yet, "we" never stick our fingers in their country.  I guess tortillas aren't as important to "us" as oil.  I also wrote several college papers on the middle east about ten years ago.  Doing the research for them was an eye opening experience.  Some really huge differences in arab culture from ours in how they "see themselves" in the world, and the western world has used this since the 1950s to actually create unrest in their part of the world.  I think there is no right, or wrong answer, just half right and half wrong answers that all have consequences that affect us all.

  • September 1, 2013 8:05 PM BST

    1st reaction - NO WAY - Don't enter another war!

    Yes, the acts in Syria  are evil.  Yes the conflict is inhumane. Our first reaction is "Someone should do something"!


    We in the US, as in most countries, are taught from an early age about being fair, sharing and doing good not evil. So we tend to jump into situations where we perceive one of these precepts are being violated before we know all the facts. It's just part of our culture.

    We all know that - There will always be inhumane acts in the world, Mankind has flaws and evil people do exist.

    Many citizens here in the US (including me) are now tired of  "intervening" only to later be despised by both sides of the conflict and motives questioned by the world opinion at large. IF we haven't learned anything over the last 80 years (since 1920's) , it's that our "HELP" is not always appreciated, nor wanted by the rest of the world, and honestly at time we were flat wrong in our assessment / decisions to intervene.

    As for our involvement in the middle east - The use of Oil as an excuse to go to war has become a Hollow reason at best! If you think about it, the only country who "Likes the US" in the middle east, is the only country that doesn't have any oil (Israel).  Whether we like it or not, everyone else views us with disdain and would prefer we not be involved in their affairs at all.

    It is time we stop trying to impose our Western style culture on people who really don't want it and resent us for trying to do so. Even when Western style elections are adopted (with huge celebrations by the people), situations like currently going on in Egypt arise, where different parties don't agree with the Election results and internal war breaks out.

    I believe, we should untangle ourselves from this region and any money spent on wars in the middle east be redirected instead to a sane energy policy that does not use oil (as fuel) in the first place. 

    What we spent on the IRAQ war alone could have bought every American a Prius Electric Car, outfit our homes with solar and limited our use of oil to just a lubricant instead of burning it as fuel. It is truly insane that we send billions of US Dollars (in the form of oil purchases) to  a group of countries that raise up people to hate the US.

    I'm not a pacifist, just a US citizen that believes we need to be prudent in our use of force and respect the cultures of other countries. Even when we don't agree with them. 


    One Final thought - 

    The definition of insanity - Continuing to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results!



    Michelle Lynn









    This post was edited by Former Member at September 1, 2013 8:15 PM BST
    • 1195 posts
    September 1, 2013 10:02 PM BST
    NO WAR   There wouldn't have been an attack on Iraq if there had been a draft still in effect. The only jobs available at that time were in low paying,part time jobs - thats still now- so many young people were duped into joining the militry.  If the  draft were started again the military would be against going to war.  They learned their lesson in Viet Nam.
    NO WAR please.
  • September 2, 2013 12:08 AM BST

    Great and well reasoned comments,   Personally I don't think we can inflict the kind of democracy we are used to in the west on countries Ideals that are totally alien to their culture.   The Americans do have a very entrenched sense of fair play and inbuilt need to put things right, that do do lead to the same mistakes the UK has made in the past, thinking our superior weapons technology and dedication and expertise of our military can defeat all commers.   Does'nt work when faced with fanatical religous elements that exhalt the deaths of their own and martydom.


    Most of the countries in the Middle East were formed by the British, drawing up borders and allocating area's to varying sects and tribes.   As they created the State of Israel.    As they did in India, seperating Pakistan and Bangladesh from India.   Keeping bits of Territory over the Years, The Falkland Islands, Gibralta.    Even to closer to home diviidng Ireland into the north a British colony and creating the Repblic, creating the mainly catholic south and a protestant north, to fit in with our own changes of religion the whim of the King at the time.


    I do wonder tho, if we went back to ancient times when Kings and princes led battles from the front, if politicians were forced to do the same, a bit fanciful I know, but would there be quite so many quick rushes into wars?


    Now even if we have helped. liberate people, eventually we are hated and despised, for upsetting the status quo.

  • September 2, 2013 10:56 AM BST

    Further thought, is it indemic amongst wester cultures, to invade or colonise foreign countries, even dating back to the Pilgrim fathers, occupying the american continent,   back to the English again.   The English, Spanish, Portuguese, French even the Dutch, invading and colonising countries all over the world.   exporting their religion and forcing their own values and beliefs on the countries they occupy.    Any wonder looking back on history, that we are viewed with distrust and disdain.   even after we left these countries, leaving so called independant leaders behind to manage things, who were no more than western puppets, about the only one I can think of that was'nt was Ghandi, which now, leads India as one of the most upcoming and prosperous nations in the world.


    Coming back to the chemical attacks in Syria, its now reported that the ingrediants used to make these weapons were probably supplied by the UK after the troubles started, on the pretext they were to be used in the production of Aluminium, WTF, did'nt anyone realise that these were the components needed to make these weapons and should there not have been an embargo on the supply of such items????

    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at September 2, 2013 11:02 AM BST
    • 35 posts
    September 3, 2013 4:57 PM BST

    Clear back in 1960, Ike Eisenhower warned us about the "Military Industrial Complex".  The American PEOPLE are sick of war, especially the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that bleeds into Pakistan every now and then.  The cost has been obscene - a few TRILLION DOLLARS over the last 12 years.


    But there are those who made huge profits in those wars.  There were those in the military whose careers were created in those wars.  There were many who gained a great deal from those wars.  To these people, the thought of America NOT being in a war is the real terror.


    Part of the problem in Iraq was that Sarin gas uses ingredients common in fertilizer and insecticides.  The gas can be mixed on-site in about 15 minutes, then launched in rockets or grenade launchers.  In Iraq, there were a number of occasions where the unmixed chemicals were found in close proximity to rocket launchers, but Saddam didn't want to use the gas on American soldiers because he thought the UN would intervene on his behalf.


    In Syria, there are no such delusions.  Both sides are willing to go to almost any length to achieve their aims.  Getting the United States involved in such a conflict is a recipe for economic disaster.


    The problem is that peace is also a bad thing for corporations and military contractors who depend on defense and military spending for a substantial percentage of their budget.  To these companies, their best chance of survival is to hope that the United States does get into another long and protracted war, where $billions will be spent every day on military supplies, smart bombs, drones, cruise missles, and other high tech gadgets that often are intended for single use.


    We see the low mortality rates, the low numbers of those killed in action, but we don't see the morbidity rates, the high numbers of men and women crippled and disabled during these two wars.  Furthermore, the budget that might have gone to help those who have already made such sacrifices, including arms, legs, hearing, and eyesight, has been poured into more military defense contracts and newer and smarter weapons of war.  The veterans must wait up to 2 years before they can even START to get benefits and care promised when they enlisted.


    The problem is that many of those defense contractors are major contributors to the House majority party candidates, and could easily throw their money, power, and influence behind someone who will support their causes during the primary, threatening incumbants with loss of office and replacement by someone even more extremeley pro war, anti labor, anti individual rights, pro corporate rights, and who will be even LESS sympathetic to those whose concerns are health care, disability, and survival.

    • 434 posts
    September 7, 2013 5:45 AM BST

     There are so many good comments on this topic. It's refreshing to see that.

     When many of the comments are put together, they seem to indicate that it is not worth the effort to intercede in the middle east and these other "warring" countries. In fact, it will just prolong the killing and achieve nothing!
     The Western democracies fought civil wars (and World Wars) many years ago. Those wars were fought until one side was beaten...and both sides were sick of the killing! Fortunately, their populations (and weapons) were much smaller back then.
     The only way to settle the problems in the Middle East and many of these African countries is to have the rest of the world totally back off any involvement and let these countries all have their own "knock-down", "beat-em-up" civil wars... until they are all sick of fighting. Until the populations of these countries begin to hate war and killing...they will NEVER stop.
     The best thing the Western democracies could do is to wait until these countries have resolved their religious, racial, and cultural hatreds to the point in which they are ready to join the rest of the civilized world.
     It may seem cruel and it may mean many deaths will occur - but in the long run...less people will die.