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Vancouver lawyer Barbara Findlay wrote, “The notion that there are two and only two genders is one of the most basic ideas of our binary, Western way of thinking. Transgender people challenge our very understanding of the world. And we make them pay the cost of our confusion by their suffering.”
Ouch!!!!! We suffer because of their confusion. And most think we are confused! Now they are confusing things again.
Why can't they just get over it and accept we are who we are then they can concentrate on their lives?
Julia x
Because that would mean that they would have to accept (and admit to themselves) that it was them who were wrong and not us. That would be a hard pill to swallow for a lot of folks.
marissa
That is actually an extract she has used from the
http://gendersociety.com/articles/283/sexual-orientation-gender-ident November 2012
My paper :- http://gendersociety.com/articles/386/how-does-the-two-gender-system-i
(so far only one person has deemed it interesting enough to commnet on)
Marissa Mallo said:
Because that would mean that they would have to accept (and admit to themselves) that it was them who were wrong and not us. That would be a hard pill to swallow for a lot of folks.
marissa
True. BUT...it needn't be about who is right or wrong, rather just learning to (truly) accept diversity. My truth need not match your truth, but we can still respect one another. My truth can even include your truth, it doesn't mean it applies to me, and it doesn't mean imposing on anyone else. Live and let live, right?
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
That is actually an extract she has used from the
Yogyakarta Principles something I have researched in deapth and written papers on for my law degree.
http://gendersociety.com/articles/283/sexual-orientation-gender-ident November 2912
My paper :- http://gendersociety.com/articles/386/how-does-the-two-gender-system-i
Hm...it did seem familiar. The article I read it in appears to have misattributed it to her without specifying where she may have in turn found it. I thought I had posted the full article as well, in a separate forum post.
Here it is now...
Vancouver lawyer Barbara Findlay wrote, “The notion that there are two and only two genders is one of the most basic ideas of our binary, Western way of thinking. Transgender people challenge our very understanding of the world. And we make them pay the cost of our confusion by their suffering.”
The Ontario Human Rights Commission has recently released its Policy on Preventing Discrimination because of Gender Identity and Gender Expression.
Gender identity means each individual’s experience of gender. It is one’s sense of being a woman, a man, both, neither, or anywhere along the gender spectrum. Sometimes, one’s gender identity, how one feels inside, is at odds with the body into which a person was born.
Gender expression is about how a person expresses or presents their gender to the world. This can involve how they dress, keep their hair, wear makeup and their use of body language and voice. A person’s gender identity is fundamentally different and not related to their sexual orientation. For instance, somebody could be born with a man’s body but they identify as a woman. We would appropriately call that person a trans woman. That trans woman may be sexually attracted to men or to women or perhaps both. One’s feelings about which gender one should have been born as does not dictate sexual orientation.
There is no reason for anyone to feel bad about being slightly confused by all of this. It is outside of many people’s “norm” and it takes an effort to understand and empathize.
Trans people are one of the most disadvantaged groups in society. The Commission’s report tells us that they routinely experience prejudice, discrimination, harassment, and even violence. It impacts their daily lives, health and well-being.
The Commission’s policy is that everyone has the right to define their own gender identity and that trans people should be recognized and treated as the gender they live in, whether or not they have undergone surgery. A trans person may be going through surgical transition but not yet have had their driver’s licence and birth certificate changed. Just because their identity documents are not up-to-date does not mean that an employer has the right to treat them as anything other than the identity they are expressing and living.
The Commission’s policy is that trans people should have access to washrooms, change rooms, and other gender-specific services and facilities based on their lived gender identity.
The report goes on to state that a trans person should not be required to use a separate washroom or change room because other people express discomfort at sharing the washroom. The Commission does not accept stereotypes about, for example, trans women being a threat to other women as a reason to exclude them. It believes that education and awareness will help dispel these kinds of stereotypes over time. Trans people themselves, not the people they share bathrooms with, are the ones at risk of harassment and violence.
Employers with a written dress code should take a second look. The employer can have a dress code but they need to use gender-inclusive and flexible language. You can list and limit the kinds of clothing that can be worn in the workplace but you cannot dictate which gender has to wear which.
“Trans people and other gender nonconforming individuals should not be treated negatively while at work, school, trying to rent an apartment, shopping, eating a meal in a restaurant, using health care services or shelters, dealing with law enforcement and justice services or at any other time.”
For most employers, this is not a daily issue. There is probably nothing that needs to be immediately done to make sure that they are in compliance with human rights legislation. The important point is this: Once the issue arises, understand and recognize that you don’t have to figure this out on your own. There are resources such as the Commission’s policy that will help guide the way. It will help employers not only do the right thing but also avoid legal liability for failing to appropriately accommodate.
Ed Canning practices labour and employment law with Ross & McBride LLP, in Hamilton, representing both employers and employees. Email him at [email protected] .
I just read both articles Crissie posted and I am not confused. The thing that confuses me about anything to do with us is, if a person is born with no legs then thats it , they have no legs. Now if a person is born with gender issues of any kind, it has to be an ongoing battle. Research yes always , but research in any other field does not get unfair press like we do most times , two genders or 47 genders we are all still human. This is not unfair press I should add. Thanks for the articles Crissie.
Julia x
Julia Ford said:
I just read both articles Crissie posted and I am not confused. The thing that confuses me about anything to do with us is, if a person is born with no legs then thats it , they have no legs. Now if a person is born with gender issues of any kind, it has to be an ongoing battle. Research yes always , but research in any other field does not get unfair press like we do most times , two genders or 47 genders we are all still human. This is not unfair press I should add. Thanks for the articles Crissie.
Julia x
Things are always more complicated when they involve the heart and mind and soul of an individual. Not that having no legs doesn't, but you know what I mean.
The trouble is, few people here can be bothered to find out the why's, because and maybee's, so basically they are not in a position to pass on information to the uneducated masses and knuckle dtragging troglodytes in the outside world.
I post links and write up papers, posting them here for information. Some items where I quote and attribute them to the original writer, somethings I don't fully understand, I'm not a scientist or biologist, but I glean some sort of sense from all the information available, I think I have now done 23, x 4 and 5 page submissions for my law degree, and in the main have obtained some of the highest marks available, ranging from extremely well written and informative to exemplary original research.
The only reason I mentioned being born with no legs is because , when I was asked to support trans girls in the past before I quit I always used to ask them ' Would you had rather been born with no legs? . The answer was always no and my response was , then count yourself lucky then. That was my way of making a point of you can do this "With legs".
Julia x
Told you you amaze me Crissie! And your marks prove it xxxx
Edit: Now I have to amaze myself and get some work finished xxx
If we remain in ignorance how can we complain about people treating us with ignorance.
One study published in 1977 suggests that transgender people have more heterosexual than homosexual experiences. Bu did these studies take into account, how transgender people percieve their own gender??
Julia Ford said:
The only reason I mentioned being born with no legs is because , when I was asked to support trans girls in the past before I quit I always used to ask them ' Would you had rather been born with no legs? . The answer was always no and my response was , then count yourself lucky then. That was my way of making a point of you can do this "With legs".
Julia x
I took it as an explanation of what confuses you. It is true that one of the best ways to be happy is to count our blessings and always be aware of those in more difficult situations. Hm, that kinda doesn't sound right, but I trust anyone would know what I mean.
It also works as a comparison you may also have intended, in that they are both limitations (at least in our current world) or challenges that we are born with and have no choice in the matter...and therefore why must people give us so much trouble.
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
If we remain in ignorance how can we complain about people treating us with ignorance.
True. BUT...we are who we are and should be accepted as we are, regardless. Not that being ignorant is a good thing, but the responsibility for learning isn't all on us. Even if there's no explanation for transgender people, it shouldn't matter TOO much. We don't force anything on others, we don't hurt anyone, we just want our basic human rights and should be accepted like anyone else.
I struggle to understand myself, and that's one of the reasons I'm here. It's one of the reasons I post as much as I do. I'm learning along as best I can...
: )
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
One study published in 1977 suggests that transgender people have more heterosexual than homosexual experiences. But did these studies take into account, how transgender people perceive their own gender??
That's a very good question.
Madeleine Grant Said
True. BUT...we are who we are and should be accepted as we are, regardless. Not that being ignorant is a good thing, but the responsibility for learning isn't all on us. Even if there's no explanation for transgender people, it shouldn't matter TOO much. We don't force anything on others, we don't hurt anyone, we just want our basic human rights and should be accepted like anyone else.
Cristine says
There are things that are explained and accepted without arguement, whilst you have ignorant and bigoted people, reasons have to be explained. Julia stands up in a hall full of students and explains things, those students/teachers learned somehting that day. One day I will stand up in court and defend and fight for peoples rights. In todays society physical birth defects can be explained and are excepted in western civilisations, its all about education, which starts with being self informed.
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
My paper :- http://gendersociety.com/articles/386/how-does-the-two-gender-system-i
(so far only one person has deemed it interesting enough to comment on)
Actually Crissie, I've tried...but couldn't find any way to do so. Don't know how Julia did(?)
BUT...I did find this in the forums, I was sure I'd seen it (and meant to post)...
http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/9558/how-does-the-two-gender-system-i/view/post_id/67470
Somewhat dated, but a link with exceptional information, reports on surveys for post op sexual satisfaction, people surgeons, demographics. History. famouse first people http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/SRS.html#anchor41859
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:
Madeleine Grant Said
True. BUT...we are who we are and should be accepted as we are, regardless. Not that being ignorant is a good thing, but the responsibility for learning isn't all on us. Even if there's no explanation for transgender people, it shouldn't matter TOO much. We don't force anything on others, we don't hurt anyone, we just want our basic human rights and should be accepted like anyone else.
Cristine says
There are things that are explained and accepted without arguement, whilst you have ignorant and bigoted people, reasons have to be explained. Julia stands up in a hall full of students and explains things, those students/teachers learned somehting that day. One day I will stand up in court and defend and fight for peoples rights. In todays society physical birth defects can be explained and are excepted in western civilisations, its all about education, which starts with being self informed.
And Julia says: Thank you Crissie I have done what I can and the best part is I enjoyed it. The satisfaction of knowing I educated teachers who were mostly unaware of the signs should hopefully give the next generation the confidence to talk about it rather than hide it. That is what it was all about. You just brought a few tears to my tired eyes. You will go on in life defending the ones that never had a chance because they will be victims of ignorance , and on their behalf I Thank You in advance.
Julia xxxx
