Forum » Gender Society Public Forums » General Forum » Sex changes are not effective, say researchers

Sex changes are not effective, say researchers

Tags : None
  • There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend tomorrow.   



    Yes I know its an old report,  Friday 30 July 2004 17.49 BST  but I have only just come accross it. but would like to comment and fault the assumptions.


    (1) The few unhappy ones might have gone private, rushed and not prepared themselves sufficiently, and not undergone proper councelling and RLE.


    (2)  The untraceable ones, the majority, have just settled into life, happy and getting on with it.    How many people have been treated for a broken leg, they don't bother ringing up the hospital every week and saying how happy that their leg is now OK.


    These surveys, are just incompetant and ill thought out to say the least, opinionated people and laughing all the way to the bank.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at July 23, 2015 10:41 PM BST
      April 12, 2015 7:53 PM BST
  • I actually find this quite reassuring; we have obviously come a long way in the last 10 years. There are still bigots in the press spouting opionated nonsense, but most of what we see and read in the UK media is more positive nowadays.

    Despite feeling reassured, I think I'm still going to lay into this speculative, so-called study...

    "...the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective."

    It found no evidence to the contrary either.

    "The Guardian asked Arif to conduct the review..."

    So, ulterior motive then.

    "...there's still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatised - often to the point of committing suicide."

    Clearly, there'd be even more people remaining traumatised often to the point of committing suicide if they weren't treated and/or didn't have "the surgery".

    "...most of the medical research on gender reassignment was poorly designed, which skewed the results to suggest that sex change operations are beneficial."

    Just, made up nonsense.

    " a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published last year, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons."

    It's called "going stealth".

    "Dr Hyde said the high drop out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals."

    Note: "could". Or it could reflect that they've gone stealth or don't want to continue to take part in their nonsense study, or have simply moved elsewhere.

    But no... "He called for the causes of their deaths to be tracked to provide more evidence." He is just assuming they must be dead. All 495 of them? Really?

    Nonsense. Remember he just used the word "could". Talk about skewed...

    "The bottom line is that although it's clear that some people do well with gender reassignment surgery..."

    Well, duhh...

    "...the available research does little to reassure about how many patients do badly and, if so, how badly."

    So it doesn't tell us much at all then does it? "The available research does little"; they should have just stopped there.

    By contrast:

    "Christine Burns, of Press For Change, said (their own) campaign group's research suggested that the vast majority of transsexual people enjoyed much happier lives following surgery.

    Ms Burns added that the greatest flaws in medical literature about gender reassignment were in those studies unsympathetic to transsexual people. For example, one study was based on a survey of seven transsexual prostitutes interviewed in one gay bar in Chicago."

    My thoughts entirely, I mean, who were Arif asking?! And the fact that they lost most of the people involved in the study before being able to follow it through makes it all rather pointless really.

    Ms Burns goes on:

    "The fact that research is badly constructed isn't a poor reflection on transpeople, but on the people we should be able to trust for our care. If they "lose" half the patients they ought to be able to track the question is why?"

    Perhpas because they're incompetent. Or skewed. Or both.

    "Research from the US and Holland suggests that up to a fifth of patients regret changing sex."

    I'd suggest that is a grossly exaggerated figure, but anyway, 4/5ths - the vast majority, are happy; totally contradicting the headline of this article. 

    "A 1998 review by the Research and Development Directorate of the NHS Executive found attempted suicide rates of up to 18% noted in some medical studies of gender reassignment."

    Whilst attempted suicide rates amongst pre-op's are more like 50%, totally contradicting the headline of this article.

    "Transgender psychiatrists, who assess whether patients should change sex..."

    No they don't; that is the patient's choice. The psychiatrists asses whether or not the patient has mental problems or other reasons for not having SRS...

    "...agree that more scientific research is needed."

    Aaahhh, scientific research. Anyone remember scientific research?

    "But Kevan Wylie, chairman of the Royal College of Psychiatrists' working party on gender identity disorders, said that all of his patients' lives have drastically improved following gender reassignment surgery."

    Totally contradicting the headline of this article.

    Mr Bellringer, one of the top NHS SRS surgeons gets the last word:

    "There's no other treatment that works. You either have an operation or suffer a miserable life."

    Totally contradicting... you know the rest.

    See? Nonsense!



      April 13, 2015 12:21 AM BST
  • Thankyou Lucy for the excellent nit picking and the time you devoted to it.Smile

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      April 13, 2015 1:30 PM BST
  • Honestly, it was a pleasure!

    Such utter drivel, so badly put together to try and make a point which they disproved themselves!

    Journalists eh?

    Here's another for you, not even trying to hide behind a study, almost proud of their uneducated standpoint, opinonated journalism at it's worst:

    "I refuse to believe..." says it all for me.

    Anyone else want to have a go at tearing this apart?!


      April 13, 2015 1:45 PM BST
  • Yes I read that Lucy and am still considering how to respond to it, rather an emotive issue when dealing with children as young as that. but it deos'nt need sensationalising,   surgeons perform gastric band surgery to improve life and it saves money for the NHS in the future, saving on prolonged care and hospitalisation.   Can we say the same about chronic liver disease cause by alcohol abuse, drugs abuse, etc.    By arguning one thing against another is realy a self defeating arguement,   gender issues are not self induced.    But it is a worrying trend that people might be pushing the boundaries regarding young children to the limit.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      April 13, 2015 2:15 PM BST
  • Great post Christine and Lucy, I think this is representative of the wider problem that anyone who is non-CIS or non-binary needs to be cured and that being offered an operation is the only solution. It's the same with mental illness,  the only thing my GP offered for depression was anti-depressants "but they won't actually cure you or make the problem go away". Luckilly some counselling at least taught me to look at my life and stop comparing it to other people's. Eventually I came to terms with who I am and stopped trying to fit other peoples definitions.


    After a couple of years thinking I was a Bi-Male and wondering why I preferred Trans people to Gay men I decided to do some tests online (yeah I know, they are not always accurate). But when I did so many and they call came back the same, then I understood why Gay-male, Bi-male does not fit.


    I spent half of my time in LGBT support wondering why I was there when there was no one else like me and why I got horny every time I opened a trans magazine and hated all the muscular guys in Gay magazines. Eventually I dated a Trans Female and that is when I realised how much I had in common with her. I believe that we do not all fit into categories and can not be cured. Sometimes we need people to listen to who we really are instead of diagnosing us, then we can love ourselves like I learned to. Only then there will be less people being pushed into opposite gender roles just because that is more acceptable than being androgenous or fluid (insert your favourite non-binary term in).


    Once I stopped trying to fit in I found I did, even a couple of close friends have commented that I am very sensitive and femme (I live as a Male). Of course society, the gutter press and stereo types will continue for another hundred years but Hey, in the last 50 years we have decriminalised Gay sex, made gay weddings and adoption legal and even stopped segregating people of differing races (in some countries) so there may be hope yet!

    This post was edited by Tasmin Janus at June 8, 2015 7:56 PM BST
      June 8, 2015 7:44 PM BST
  • Thank you Tasmin, I really enjoyed reading your intelligently written post, tinged with you own personal viewpoint.

    I hope you'll look round our forums some more and add more input.

    Just looking back on the terribly opinionated articles linked to in this thread, obviously written by people desperately trying to find a subject that will attract attention to their regularly worthless meanderings... 

    It just makes me hate the press even more. So much damage can be caused by one person who has been put in a position where they may tenuously make a living by criticising others, tacitly validating the ordinary lives of "normal" people.

    Go ahead and comission your "studies", write your articles based on entirely inconclusive results; the study was pointless in the first place, you were going to say what you'd originally intended anyway, even if the study were to prove you wrong!

    And those of us who you are trying to belittle will live our lives in peace and happiness, showing the world what it really means to be who we are.

    My presence, and my friends' embraces, mean far more than your pathetic, ulterior-motivated ramblings.





    This post was edited by Lucy Diamond at July 3, 2015 11:28 PM BST
      June 8, 2015 10:02 PM BST
  • Blanchard, Bailey, and Lawrence theory controversy,_Bailey,_and_Lawrence_theory_controversy


    The "BBL Controversy" also known as the "Autogynephilia Controversy" is an ongoing and heated line of discussion in the transgendered community. The subject, Blanchard, Bailey, and Lawrence theory, is a theory of transsexual taxonomy developed by Ray Blanchard,[1] which classifies male-to-female transsexuals according to whether they have an autogynephilic or "homosexual transsexual" motivation.[2]

    The theory had not received much attention outside of sexology until sexologist Anne Lawrence, who self-identifies as an autogynephile, published a series of web articles about the hypothesis in the late 1990s.[3] Lawrence has since published and lectured about the hypothesis.[4][5][6]

    The hypothesis received wider attention with the 2003 publication of Bailey's popular psychology book The Man Who Would Be Queen. The book is written for a public audience;[7] instead of citing sources, figures, or statistics to support the assertions made, Bailey uses anecdotal evidence to illustrate the hypothesis. The book contains his casual observations as well as quotations from casual conversations.


    If you have time to waste, don't waste it reading Baileys book, lol, go sit in the park and watch the grass grow.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      July 3, 2015 5:47 PM BST
  • Evidence and complaints filed against J. Michael Bailey for practicing as a clinical psychologist without a license, and then subsequently publishing confidential clinical case-history information without permissions about his encounters with transexuals in his book ''The Man who would be Queen''  

    The book was originally based on Blanchards theory, that a transexuals sexual orientation could not be changed and that sexual encounters would allways be of a homosexual basis. a transwoman having sexual relationships with a natal female, should be labled as lesbianism fantasy based on the transwomans perception of herself avoiding homosexuality as a natural instinct., if the transwoman were to indulge in sexual encounters with natal men, it was because the transwoman was a suppressed or latent homosexual, that transexuals could not take on a permanent sexual orientation identity of the chosen gender. that the result of his research would indicate that it was role playing to supress self disgust with the unatural desires that were felt by the individual at the time.

    The first hypothese of his theory lesbians, technically that would be correct, if the subject was suffering a gender identity disorder and truly believed they were a woman, but being a lesbian does not mean that the subject person is not trans, self revulsion of themselves and rejecting all things associated with a male image, perhaps unpleasant experiences with encounters with alpha males overules the natural order of things, social presumptions, perhaps like some natal women, they are just born with a penchant for relationships with other women.

    There was a forum topic here titled, does this make me gay? Crossdressing.  Some replied, ''Just because I dress in womens clothes and I am a woman, does not make me gay''   When I expouned my theory, ''If you think like a woman, believe your a woman, then the natural premise would be that sexual encounters with men would indicate your heterosexual, straight, if you are a woman''   A couple replied, ''Thats a disgusting thought''   It is not a case of right or wrong by preference, its a logical valid conclusion.  Being trans and sexual orientation are not the same but sexual preferences still have the same connotations, Gay, Straight, Bi.   Something both Blanchard and Bailey failed to recognise in their very ham fisted explanations to a quite easily reconisable fact.

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 30, 2015 4:03 PM BST
  • This is so dated in terms of attitude, it must really piss people of to be told that you are Male or Female and that you are just Gay because you like the same sex. I had counselling imagining that I was gay and windering why I did not find Gay man attractive or particularly desirable. I sat in meetings and one day picked up a trans magazine. I was away more fascinated with Trand females than I was with guys and set out to talk to some. That is when I realised that I liked them because that is part of who I am. Eventually I researched what my gender is and apart from being happy to confirm thatI am actually bisexual, I am also bi-gendered. At last everything began to make sense. I can be female now and again and I am working on a wardrobe and an identity and style to match. I would love to hear form other bi-gendered people anywhere in the world.

    This post was edited by Tasmin Janus at August 30, 2015 6:11 PM BST
      August 30, 2015 5:53 PM BST
  • Sshhh Tasmin, don't let everyone know, we still need ignorant people expounding stupid and biased theories, otherwise how else would I fill my spare time?

    Cristine Jennifer Shye.  B/L.  B/Acc
      August 30, 2015 6:13 PM BST
  • I have read the article and it is flawed. In my opinion Mr Bellringer who had the last say in it got it right , after all he does work within the NHS.

    It says more than 100 international studies which is alarming in itself. The Gender Clinics here in the UK take gender reassignment very seriously , they take the whole process from begining to end very seriously.

    At the start when a patient first tells their GP they are transexual or thnk they are they do not just hand out a prescription for hormones , it is a long drawn out process and needs to be. From most MtF transexuals I have met personally over the years most have reverted back to living life as their assigned gender at birth [male]. They have told me they just cannot handle living life as a female. These are passable people who term themselves as being transexual so it is not about looks and it never should be.


    The Gender Clinics in the UK are under funded and under staffed but the RLE is a test that has to be completed. If anyone cannot complete the real life experience they are discharged and rightly so. The experts have to be sure they are making the right decision before any long term irreversible changes are made to a person.


    The way transexuals are treated around the world in most countries is appalling. Virtually everyday there is a story about the basic human right to use a toilet/bathroom for the gender that person presents as and lives as. Some of these countries , mostly The USA (in the news) are supposed to be civilised countries.


    The people who carry out these surveys need to take a good long hard look at how hard all countries treat transexuals , and I do not mean just medically treat. Suicide rates will never stop rising if a small thing such as needing to use the bathroom becomes a major issue.


    To sum it up , the article is bullsh*t apart from the last words.


    Take care x


      March 27, 2016 5:00 PM BST
  • I was going to edit my post above away but I will leave it there. I have only had time to read the original article from The Guardian and not clicked on any other links relating to this. Sorry I have so much work to finish before midnight and my eyes are to tired to read any more today . I will come back to this when I get a break.

      March 27, 2016 7:48 PM BST