August 10, 2008 4:15 PM BST
and now to be a little provocative................As I've said,we're dealing with a complex set of factors over which we don't necessarily have any or much influence and control.But,there is a social-political element which some of us could try to influence,particularly in the US I think.This is a country which likes to think of itself as THE world leader and glittering example for the rest of us.............I saw some figures recently somewhere about the US medical system and the percentage of people,with and without jobs,who cannot afford , or are excluded from,even the most basic form of health insurance,is appalling.This almost certainly affects quite a few T-people and I wonder how this shows up in the statistics(yes,I know what Churchill and Roosevelt(?) said about stats...). I have a nasty feeling that,for some of us in the US,a couple of unprotected tricks in the parking lot will cover the rent,the groceries,some cheap rotgut or
doubtful smack or crack to numb the pain and shame,some hormones of doubtful quality from some chemist in the ghetto who doesn't ask questions,and,if it's been a good day/night,with luck might even just stretch to some very basic health cover.And that's assuming anybody would insure them if they're hooking.The state health systems that we in 'old Europe' enjoy may be far from perfect but at least they remove one variable from the equation.
Marsha,Robyn,and the rest of you from the US.-perhaps you ought to consider pushing for a serious reform of your Health system so that no-one is excluded because of their financial, social and/or racial status. I realise that what I'm suggesting here smacks of Socialism,if not.........Communism(!), and that,as good Americans you're now reaching for earplugs,blinkers and that you're on the verge of sh***ing yourselves as you worship at the shrine of Saint Joe McCarthy, but something like this might help to improve those alcoholism,drug abuse,prostitution and suicide statistics.Even Cuba looks after the health of its citizens better!
Otherwise......well,I think that,in every country,we need to think about some form of educational means of getting the message across that we don't bite,don't eat little children for supper,and that we don't have two heads (I don't think Zaphod Beeblebrox is a T-person....) but are,actually, as 'normal' as anybody else! But,
this isn't going to happen overnight- it's going to be a long,long march through the institutions until we reach the right levers.
Thanks,Porscha.The GLBT aspect may not be everyones cup of tea but at least they didn't pass by on the other side. If nothing else,at least they've lent us an umbrella!
Let's look at Lynn Conway's web-site,the successes she's got there,and take hope.
'Always look on the bright side of life.............'
I must learn to be more concise............
Ciao
Lynn H.
August 10, 2008 10:46 PM BST
Lynn, we all live in different circumstances, so often we are comparing apples to oranges. I was the one who started the Health Care thread in the Polly Ticks forum. I am totally against government run universal healthcare. The more dependent you are on government run programs, the more screwed you are. For your information I pay far less for my healthcare than your UK NIC and I get far better care. If I want an appointment to see my doc this week even to just talk to him, all I need to do is call in the morning. ANYONE in this country can get medical care that sameday if it is an emergency. You have everyone disillusioned that universal care is free, give me a break. I included a link to the 2008 UK NIC, National Insurance Contribution chart, in the Polly Ticks forum. It is not free and it might stun some how much it actually costs. And for people in the U.S. hearing what you often go through for medical care, that is crazy. As for how much I would save compared to your NIC, I could pay for all my meds, labs, doc visits, and SRS in less than 3 years. LOL, and airfare to Colorado or Thailand to have the SRS surgery.
Hugs,
Marsha
August 11, 2008 7:05 PM BST
Porscha:
Our best defence against intolerance is to embrace as many people as we can. Not to do so is to fail to learn the lessons of history.
"To forget history is to be condemned to repeat the class."
Agreed we need to make change, one person at a time. Disagreed that transsexualism will always and forever be marginlized and so forth--if we can start changing enough attitudes. You and I might not live to see that day...but those who follow in our high-heeled footsteps will, goddess willing.
Luv 'n hugs to you--
Mina
August 11, 2008 7:06 PM BST
Lynn--
Allow me the honor of replying to your post.
First off, I won't argue the need for healthcare reform. As one of those 44 million American citizens that have no healthcare other than what I can afford to pay (which right now, is nothing), I agree that something is needed.
However, as a veteran of the US Navy, I'll fight like mad before I'd let the government run health care in this country. If they can't treat the military correctly, what makes me think that they are capable of handling the needs of the rest of the country? This is the American Congress, who can't even get the concept of basic daily needs, much less healthcare needs because they all have enough money to get whatever healthcare they need!
As for the LGB movement--I've already said I'm tired of being treated like a redheaded bitch stepchild. (Notice I have not put the T in that LGB.) We as T-people need to get up off our collective butts and fend for ourselves, because I certainly don't trust the HRC to do the right thing. They have done an end-run on us with ENDA, and I wouldn't trust the idiots to feed my cats. And it isn't the first time we've been screwed over by HRC, either. If we as Trans people are going to see change, we will have to start working to create that change ourselves.
Maybe in Germany things really are that much better. I've never been there, so I can't really say. But I'll still live here in America, flaws and all. I'm not all for raging capitalism--but I've seen that pure socialism doesn't work well, either.
Mina
August 15, 2008 2:29 PM BST
I believe LGBT and HRC are two separate issues. Although they both were involved in ENDA, that doesn't mean they go hand in hand.
I totally agree with Mina about getting the T out of LGBT. I have no issues with lesbians or gays except for their issue is sexual identity and ours is gender. Two completely different issues. Based on your logic Wendy that the LGB community has such a greater presence, why then don't we just associate with african-americans or even the UAW(United Auto Workers). Associating with a sexual based community is what is holding us back in the first place. To the misinformed people out there it is bad enough some guys like guys, but put a dress on them just makes them perverted. We need to stop the perception this is sexual.
As for the HRC, like Wendy said the rest of the LGB supported us but the HRC threw us under the bus. Why continue supporting any organization that would do that. They tried to justify it in that we need to get what we can now, but as Wendy pointed out we are a much smaller community which means down the road the HRC would have even less reason to represent us. Therefore, we need to dump them now.
Marsha
August 17, 2008 1:17 PM BST
Cristine, Thanks so much for your contribution to this thread. Maybe instead of the word planning I should have said research and study everything you can about transitioning. Don't just go blindly day to day, instead take control of the process.
A simple example would be facial hair. Knowing that it may take several years to go through laser or electro hair removal should make anyone realize if their face is like a bear, maybe they should start on that before they go fulltime. Unfortunately the "gotta have it now" society believes they can put on a dress, start a transition program and they will live happily ever after. It's not going to happen.
Like you, I will never go around proclaiming who I am, nor will I go stealth. I continue to come to TW for the simple reason one day another Marsha Ann will come along, a gal that feels so alone at this amazing process, and like those that were here to help me, I hope I can help her.
Hugs,
Marsha
September 7, 2008 7:20 AM BST
im sorry, i get really, really angry at anybody that claims other TG folk give the community a bad name.
Its just that attitude that is the reason why transexualism needs the LGB association to get anything done. We cant even show acceptance of diversity amoungst ourselves yet.
September 7, 2008 1:21 PM BST
Becky, the fact is the squeaky wheel gets the oil. So when "gals" go out in a unladylike way, that is what people see and remember. I am not saying they are bad people, just what they do reflects on others. There is a place for those who want to wear exotic heels and dress like drag queens, but to think they deserve all the rights as a GG is totally ludicrous. That is where TS's and the CD's that just want to blend into society the best they can, come in. Here in the U.S. and other places we seek anti-discrimination laws and what ends up happening is people come out of the woodwork attacking TG's because of the drag queen image.
As for LGB, as Nikki says and I totally agree with her, that is a sexual thing. TG is GENDER ID, we don't belong grouped with them, not because they are bad people, but because of the sexual link. I don't know about gay pride events in your area, but around here they have turned into outrages sexfests, pretty revolting when that goes on in the middle of the streets. That is what society sees, I don't want to be associated with that. And you will find not even all the gays want to be associated with that behavior.
You can believe what you want but the public sees a sexually perverted guy in a dress looking like a drag queen wanting to use the ladies room. With that image I don't think I want them in there with me either. And as long as there are those willing to authenticate those beliefs, we are in trouble.
Hugs,
Marsha
September 7, 2008 8:45 PM BST
Cristine, not exactly the wording I would use, but, uhmm, will, uhmm, yeah, I think I have to agree with you.
Hugs,
Marsha
September 7, 2008 9:12 PM BST
Marsha,
Can I possibly try and "rescue" this thread, with a little bit of "re-direction" back to the original posting, where you brought up the subject of a higher than average proportion of the TG community being or having been involved in alcoholism, drug abuse or prostitution.
I thought I had, over the past year "come across" most, if not all, the "really interesting" threads here.
But, now that this one has been "resurected" recently, I've just read it through for the first time!
Maybe, going back to the original posting, I have something to say, which may be of interest !!
I'm not sure how many of you know already (I know I've mentioned it to some of you in PM's), but I am, in fact, a recovering alcoholic !! I've been sober for just over 9 years now, so it's not something I think about that much these days !!
Also, I'm "lucky" in that I can still go to bars, etc, without feeling the need to drink alcohol, so I've not totally lost the friendly atmosphere of that social scene!
So, to the relevence of why I'm telling you all this ..............
Over 9 yoers ago, when I finally admitted that I was an alcoholic, and needed to change my life, I went through the "usual" systems, primarily a clinic, and AA.
At the clinic, I underwent some extremely "challenging" counselling, where I was made to look very hard at myself, and my behaviour, and try to find out for myself why I was drinking so much! What was really the cause of my desire to drink myself into oblivion?!
Through all this soul-searching, and deeply honest self-learning, I realised that I was drinking to extremes, because I had a deep-seated, unending hatred of myself !!!
If I could drink to oblivion, I didn't need to face myself, and all that I hated about ME !!!
Once I'd got through that initial realisation, it was then the task to find out just what I hated so much !
Of course, I knew that already, but there was NO WAY I was going to tell them what it was !!
I'd enough problems already, without opening that "can of worms"! My Transgenderism !!!
Over the next few years, I learnt how to live with myself (though in a totally male role), and life got back on track.
But, honesty has to come out sometime, so, after holding it in for so long, eventually I HAD to tell someone !!
When I did, the relief of having told someone, and the instant acceptance that she gave me, was all-consumming!! So, after 6 months of dep thought, discussion etc, I decided that I couldn't continue to "live the lie" any longer, and I took the first step along my road of transition !!
So, that eventually, brought me here, to this great sisterhood of you all, who have helped/supported/become close friends to me !!
So, my point ...........................
Although alcoholism is generally regarded as a negative trait in people, in my case, without it I would never be the happy person I am now !!!
There's usually a positive attatched to a negative.
Sometimes it's just hard to find it!
But keep looking, you'll get it eventually !!
Hugs,
Angela. xx.
September 9, 2008 8:19 AM BST
Thanks, Christine,
And I agree with your comments!
In particular, I'd like to agree with your "how can you plan something you don't even understand at the time".
Certainly, in my case at least, there was No planning in my journey to transition. In fact, the complete opposite!
Having spent my life, up until I was "forced" to face up to my alcoholism, and the real causes of it, my plan had been, very much, to "deny" my true self, and try to get on with the life I'd been dealt!
But, as I realised that my Transgenderism was at the root of the problems I was experiencing in my life, I still had to accept that I was not really going to be able to do anything about it, due to, in my mind, my age !!
However, when I eventually HAD to tell someone about it, I was met with the question "So, what are you going to do about it?" When I told her that, due to my age, I didn't really think there was much I could do, so I'd just have to accept that I would just have to get on with life as I was, she immediately said that "surely if it's truly "you", then, regardless of age, I should do something about it, as, if I didn't, it would only cause me even greater problems in the future!"
So, I arrive at this point in my life, totally unplanned !
Although this may sound very odd, in my case at least, my alcoholism was one of the best things ever to happen to me, in my life !!
Without it, I'd still be a very unhappy person, trying to live a "normal" life,but every day of it being "a lie"!!
(Of course, I now feel this life I'm living now, as being "normal" ........... the one I should have been living since birth!).
To say that alcoholism was ultimately a good thing is only my own, personal experience!
It brought me, eventually, to a very happy "place" in my life, but I can totally appreciate that that may not be true in anyone else's life!
To anyone who's in a situation of alcoholism, drug-abuse or prostitution, when you find that you want/need to change things, you'll find there's a lot of help and support out there (and here, of course!).
You never know where it might take you !
Look at what it's given me !
Eventual happiness ! And I never thought I'd be saying that a few years ago !!
Hugs,
Angela. xx.
September 9, 2008 12:15 PM BST
OK Cristine and Angela, I will try to answer this without making it too hard for anyone.
how can you plan something you don't even understand at the time
There has to be a time when you realize what is going on with you in the first place. The first step of planning anything is to research all the information you can find out on any given subject. Next is to set up goals or objectives. Finally you create a plan to set things in motion to accomplish those objectives. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about that.
You took "planning" way out of context of what I was talking about in the first place. The context was a TS gal transitioning, not some clueless guy walking down the street who has yet to discover he is TG. I realize someone can be messed up with alcoholism or drug addiction before they realize they are TS. For that matter, knowing they are different for an "unknown" reason very will could be the cause of abuse.
The entire principle of this thread was that you cannot go into transition haphazardly or you're likely to have serious problems.
Hugs,
Marsha
September 9, 2008 3:32 PM BST
Cristine, I'm sorry it came across to you that way, that wasn't really my intention. It was meant to be "let me try and put what I said in simpler terms to try and remove any confusion." You and others have added so many wonderful valid points. In no way do I have all the answers. What prompted this thread in the first place is real people that I know having gone through many of these issues. I constantly try to point out to the newer gals the pitfalls of the past so they can learn from our mistakes and have a better life than us.
Hugs,
Marsha
September 9, 2008 3:38 PM BST
Hi again, everyone--
Planning for transitioning is a must, I'll agree.
Figuring out who you are, as well as what is happening, is a must. I have said from the word go that nobody holds a gun to our heads and says, "you will start looking, dressing, and living like a woman from now until you die." I have also said that if this is a sexual turn-on, it's the most inconvienient and expensive (not to mention the most frustrating) one I can think of.
To transition correctly, the costs are staggering. Not just the money, but everything else. Even those of us who simply go full-time without "The Operation" can (or should)see the costs involved.
Finally, planning your future is a must. You cannot plan everything, but if you have some ideas, write them down or at least have some idea. While I do not plan at this time for the operation, I
have had plans in place to go full-time when I am good and ready.
I did so because it is important not only to see what you'll lose, but what you'll gain.
Luv 'n hugs,
Mina
September 9, 2008 3:44 PM BST
Thank you Mina, that's all I was trying to say.
Hugs,
Marsha
September 9, 2008 4:06 PM BST
Marsha,
Sorry if I didn't explain clearly enough the point I was trying to make, when I explained the earlier part of my life.
What I was trying to say was that I had a very strong plan in place to continue to "deny" my true self, and remain living the male "lie" for the rest of my life !!
Of course, when I found that plan totally untennable, I had to re-plan my future life, which I have done, in some detail !
My "core point" was that I arrived "here" in my life, despite everything I'd planned previously, not that I hadn't planned my transition!
I just hadn't, originally, planned to transition.
Hope this clears up any mis-understanding of what I was trying to say.
Hugs,
Angela. xx.