Couple marry for the second time

  • January 9, 2012 2:51 PM GMT

    Listed in the Daily Mirror's Weird World section, this kind of reporting does not do the TG community any favours - consigning us to the 'weirdo's bin'.

    Perhaps Crissie can enlighten me to the law on marriage at the present time.  What happens if a M2F TS was legally married to a woman before the 2004 GRA came into force.  After subsequently transitioning to become a female, is that marriage still legal or would it revert to Civil Partnership staus if the couple wished to remain together??

    Full story at:- http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-world/2012/01/08/couple-marry-for-the-second-time-after-husband-has-a-sex-swap-115875-23686957/

  • January 9, 2012 6:40 PM GMT

    The news report didn't state if a GRC (Gender recognition Certificate) had been applied for, or granted. I believe that unless you are granted a GRC, your status remains that of your birth gender, so even after SRS their marriage remains legal irrespective of the date of marrage.


    This post was edited by Former Member at January 9, 2012 6:42 PM GMT
    • 1652 posts
    January 9, 2012 7:37 PM GMT
    Yes I believe Rebecca is right. Their marriage remains legal regardless of name change, transition and/or surgery. Should the transitioned partner wish to apply for a GRC and thereby gain "legal status" as female, the couple must first divorce. After the GRC is issued they may then enter into a civil partnership.
    In this case the couple have renewed their vows, which is not in any way "legally recognised". Presumably one would only have to find a very understanding vicar!
    xx
    • 146 posts
    January 9, 2012 8:05 PM GMT
    After reading Lucys post ,I find Myself asking Why Must the couple divorce? even if one party has had a gender transistiono have the recognition of GRC and wishes t.I think its a just plain Nice to see 2 people happy together.Its a lesson for us all if you are not happy with yourself , what happiness are you sharing.
    There was always Jan Morris, who was re-united
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Morris .. but this was with Civil partnership.
  • January 9, 2012 8:21 PM GMT
    I suppose that all this will change if the government ever gets round to passing the bill for Equal Marriages though. I just wondered what the current legal status was - so thank you Lucy.
    • 1652 posts
    January 9, 2012 8:41 PM GMT
    To Donna's probably rhetorical question: the law states that marriage must be between a (legal) man and woman. So a GRC cannot be granted to anyone in a marriage as the marriage would no longer meet this basic legal criterion.
    Divorce is therefore essential for a married person who wishes to legally change their sex (ie be granted a GRC).
    It is perhaps more absurd though that a "legal male" can remain legally married to a woman and yet be female in every other sense, even after SRS.
    There is pressure to get all this changed, but with the church being strongly vocal in such matters, who knows how and when the law may be changed.
    The law, at the moment, seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    One more reason, in my opinion, for the laws of the land to be disassociated with the church.
    xx
    • 146 posts
    January 9, 2012 11:50 PM GMT
    I very much agree that laws should be disassociated with the Church , and that there should be a motivation to have such a bill for Equal Marriages. To Lucy's point of absurdity of a legal male..etc. It could be considered as absurd for the Law of the land to insist that a couple should divorce, even if they do not want to .I believe it should be treated as a Seperate Issue of the Individuals right to seek and be granted a GRC independent of the couples marriage state . The couple should have the right to retain a married state ,-IF they both agree. At the very least there should be the legal facility for a couple to convert easily to a civil partnership.
    • 1652 posts
    January 10, 2012 1:05 AM GMT
    I agree Donna, but the church don't, they say it would make a mockery of marriage, and presumably fear it would undermine their institution.
    They must be assuming that their god wouldn't approve of such things. And if their god allegedly says so, they feel that allows them to restrict the rights of the individual.
    The law has got round this inequality by creating the civil partnership which gives same-sex couples the same legal rights as married couples. At the church's insistence though, it can't be called a marriage because that is holy, and god wouldn't allow it.
    It is of course crazy that a happily married couple would in these circumstances have to divorce and then *effectively* re-marry if one partner wishes to have legal status of their new gender.
    Cisgender people can't have same-sex marriages, and neither can we. A m2f can either marry a man or have a civil partnership with a woman. Although I think it's all a bit bonkers, I also think it wouldn't be right to only allow TS's the right to same-sex marriage.
    Marriage... civil partnership... they are different names for the same thing, but the church believes that marriage belongs to them, despite the thousands of atheists and agnostics that marry each year without the church's involvement.
    xx
  • January 10, 2012 8:33 AM GMT
    Well said Lucy and Donna. I don't care what god/alien/film character others want to believe in and worship, but I see no reason why their views should be forced upon every one else.