Hate mail

  • March 22, 2016 9:13 PM GMT
    Well I got my first hate message yesterday. Felt really icky and wanted to just leave this site because of it. I wouldn't be surprised if others in the past left this site because of bullying.

    This person twisted everything I wrote in my profile. I wrote God makes no mistakes and this person went on to basically say THEY were a mistake! What?!?! The reason Lady Gaga and others say that is because it is a retaliating statement to mainstream society and warped religious interpretation which says that transgender people are freaks or mistakes or that God never intended that to happen. I've never been religious and I AM open to religious people IF they are non-judgmental and non-hypocritical, so let's get that out of the way. (I also believe atheists have a right to their views, as who can dispute science? Plus who knows what happens after we die? I guess we'll find out!)

    Yet, I do believe in a higher power (a generic god who doesn't interfere!) that created the universe and all the elements that make up the planets, suns, life, evolution, and the billions of variations that make humans unique. There are no mistakes in nature. As a SOCIETY, humans have come up with labels, diagnoses, disorders, conditions, what constitutes a mistake and what doesn't. Twins and triplets are genetic mutations, do we go around calling them mistakes? If anything, people call them a good mistake, because fertility and children are revered in all cultures. Unfortunately, representing two genders in both mind and physical form is not revered.

    But what if being transgender WERE revered in society...hmmm...let's see...because you experience what it is to be two in this lifetime (while mere cis people only one), and everyone knows two is better than one. Oh yes, AND you can adjust your body or outward appearance any way you so desire, you'll still be revered. There would be no shame, no secrecy, no discrimination, no suicides, no murdering of transgender people. BUT instead, the harsh reality is you are stigmatized and marginalized and dehumanized and people make ignorant comments like you're a mistake! I beg to differ! Being gay, lesbian, asexual, bisexual, pansexual, transgender, intersex (the multitudes of variations), gender fluid, gender queer, cross dresser, butch, girlie girl, androgynous, more female personality in a male, more male personality in a female, androgynous personality in a female (hey, that's me!), women born without a uterus, women born with two vaginas, men born with one or no testicles, the list can go on and on--whew! Are these MILLIONS of human beings a mistake??? NO ONE in this world is a mistake--except maybe Donald Trump!

    Next, this person said I was seeking sympathy and rubbing in the fact that I'm a genetic girl. What?! If I didn't feel so icky from their comments, I would laugh! In my profile, I'm merely trying to state that all of us have more things in common than not, of course some to a milder extent while others to a severe extent. But if all sides can see similarities in each other...then isn't that how wars between countries can be disarmed?

    Also, by all means am I not dangling my ovaries in people's faces--which by the way are unused and dying, so I don't think they're much to envy! I have NEVER had the desire to get pregnant or be a mother, and many people--mostly women, perhaps even some of you who have grown up in society and are not immune to its influence--think that I'm LESS of a woman because I haven't experienced motherhood. Yes, I get judged too, which is maybe one of the reasons I was drawn here (besides the fact that I want to learn, also educate, and create a dialogue...and meet like-minded individuals).

    Some feminists (which I think is just bonkers) think you're not a woman because of biology. Some mothers think I'm less of one because I'm not using my biology. You've heard of the starving children in Africa? Eat your food because there are millions of children starving in Africa. Well, how about..."You know, there are thousands of infertile women who would LOVE to have children but can't, and you have a perfectly good set of equipment and are CHOOSING not to put it to good use? What's wrong with you? You're selfish!" I'm just glad I live in the present time and not the 50's. Remember Julianne Moore in The Hours? Feeling as though she's drowning and wants to end her life? Heavy stuff about thinking you have to follow societal norms (get married, have kids). I told my (now) husband after two weeks of meeting him in 2003 that I had no desire to have kids. I love kids and have a bachelors degree in child development. My husband was fine with it and said he hated other kids even when HE was a kid! Being gross and picking their noses, getting people in trouble just to be malicious! So he didn't want kids either. If you've seen Curb Your Enthusiasm, you can see that Larry David feels the same way too, about kids! Thirteen years later and I haven't "changed my mind" as everyone keeps telling me. I'm lucky I have role models like Oprah, Marissa Tomei ("I don't know why women need to have children to be seen as complete human beings."), Cameron Diaz, Jennifer Anniston, Sandra Bullock (good for her for adopting a child in need). http://m.mic.com/articles/112910/12-women-who-had-the-best-response-to-society-s-biggest-expectation#.spvUmfDv9

    So I'm not sure whether I should leave and "stay out" as this person wants. Although out of all the TGs and CDs here, 99% of you have been so nice, friendly, warm and open--in fact, at least two of you have said you hope I stick around. But now I've been made painfully aware that I am indeed an outsider who can never understand.

    However...when signing up, it does say you can sign up as an admirer, granted I'm not the conventional sexual male admirer, but still, I think there are a lot of non-sexual female admirers out there like me (and sexual, why not?!) It's just that maybe I have the proverbial balls to come here and start chatting!

    An interesting article: http://fortune.com/2015/06/29/gender-fluid-binary-companies/
  • March 22, 2016 10:05 PM GMT
    There's definitely a nurture component to not wanting to birth children, but did you know there's a nature component too? Slightly higher levels of testosterone in cis women. Makes sense, I was super flat chested, deeper voice, high sex drive (I didn't act out on it in any promiscuous way!)

    • 143 posts
    March 22, 2016 10:26 PM GMT
    I will state that I am glad you are here and hope you will stay. - The world is too difficult and life too short to only find ourselves losing touh with someone I wish to know as a friend through time and see you as such at the present.
    Thank you for your insight to others with their opinions - which is the key term here - that is merely how that person feels. As to understanding, or the claim that you cannot - hell, I grant I have some small amount of understanding of transgender issues but primarily those that relate to me - and the same small level of grasp is true of most other things in the universe from the subatomic to the extragalactic in scale. The one thing is I am is a student both of the things in the universe and especially of myself - hence always learning. 
    Please do not let this person be the representative of any group - that person is only opinionated. When I encounter abrasive people with their opinions, I often state - 'If I want your opinion, I will give it to you.' ( But note I am a good listener ).
    BTW very noted minds in history had the same if not similar thoughts on 'god' - namely Newton and Einstein to some degree. Not bad company.
    Thank you too for the depth of your insight into yourself and sharing it with us here. Include in that your reflections on thoughts of ideas. As your work has illustrated - communication is about finding what we all share in common - not a drive to isolate ourselves with what we have different - if anything these differences should be embraced - and you show the value in both all of our common thoughts and those we may have different. 
    Thanks for taking time to communicate and read this.
    All the best, take care, hugs, Briana : )
  • March 22, 2016 10:56 PM GMT
    Thank you so much Briana, you don't know how much your tender, smart and insightful words mean to me! You are beautiful inside and out. I'm glad you're my friend! If you don't leave here...maybe I won't leave either...Love, Lisa

    P.S. I forgot to add major acne and oily skin since 12-13 years old...still have acne even now at 41! (Re: slightly higher than normal testosterone levels)
    • 29 posts
    March 22, 2016 11:16 PM GMT

    Don't let one person sour you on this site.  I have found most of the people here to be very accepting.  It sounds more to me like the person is possible jealous of you and that could be the real problem.  You have every right to be here and I think you will be able to share some different spins and different view points.   That is what makes a site interesting.  And who knows, sometimes we may disagree but that is okay too.  You seem to be very accepting and are not afraid to type These are all great assets.

    So I do hope you stay and I look forward to seeing your posts, or possibly chatting some time


    • 0 posts
    March 23, 2016 12:04 AM GMT

    Hi Lisa.

    I have not posted anything on here for about a week but I watch the site from outside. I only really returned here to say goodbye to my friends as someone took it upon themselves to delete my old account. Now my posts are being censored by a moderator whom obviously has a problem with me.


    Cristine has posted on the home page a message for you to report the member. I can tell you now from my heart you can trust her and she will be fair so do please contact her.


    As for your membership here. You have made more posts than some do in a year and you are very welcome here so do not think of going please.

    Jealousy is the most likely cause of the PM you received , there is a lot of that going on the internet and this place is not imune to it.


    I will not be posting much on this site just to have it deleted so you take care and look after yourself .


    Julia xx


    • 746 posts
    March 23, 2016 1:26 AM GMT

    Terrific post Lisa!  

    Thnx for taking the time to do so and especially become a member of this site.  All of us in here fall somewhere between the gender binary with few exceptions.  It is the magnet that drew us here in the first place.  For some, there is a huge amount of self loathing and on occasion, they will manifest their insecurities in an anonymous forum in order to carve a place or space for themselves in any community.  It is the only way they can feel good about themselves.  So please do not let the actions of one spoil it for you although I'd certainly understand if you felt differently.  

    Anyhow, I justed wanted say thnx and wish you could continue to visit us...

    Best wishes always!

    Traci xoxo

  • March 23, 2016 3:13 AM GMT
    Thank you Ms Maggie Pet, very well said! Your post touched me, you're too kind! I hope we do have a chat someday!

    Julia, I wish you wouldn't go! But I understand and hope you either come around sometimes, or come back 100% in the future... I did write to Cristine, thanks.

    Traci, yes, I like what you said about the gender binary, and about the self loathing, I totally get it and don't feel mad or hate the person, I hope they get a sense of self love and self acceptance. Thank you Traci!
    • 0 posts
    March 23, 2016 7:40 AM GMT

    Hi Lisa.

    I know how it feels to be hated here and I am used to it now. As for you? I cannot see anything that you have posted to cause anyone to send you hate mail.

    As I posted above my guess is it is jealousy , some are even jealous of me which turns to hate. I was asked to stay and welcomed back so I am not going , I will just not be as active as before.

    Your input here is valued so please remember that one ignorant persons opinion of you is just that , one persons ignorance.

    Some people only care about themselves and selfishness is not a nice quality in any person.


    You take care , Julia xx

  • March 23, 2016 4:11 PM GMT
    Hello Julia, thank you for the unofficial GS kindness award!!! How could anyone hate you? You carry yourself with grace and dignity, responding to posts very respectfully. Of course you have your opinions like everyone else, and are fully entitled to express them. I'm glad you're not leaving, and even though your presence will be less, it's a comfort to know you're still around...
  • March 23, 2016 4:43 PM GMT

    God makes no mistakes? are you kidding! He ****** all of us up pretty bad, but despite your rant here, you will never know what we go thru hon. I don't see where you have any reason to complain. I do not see a male face with big forehead. How fortunate for you to be born correctly and have a pretty face. What kind of sympathy you looking for here? Your only 99% sure? Well, I got news for ya hon, I am 100% sure, even with natural tits since birth and a dick. Everyone has adversity, huh? Try it from our side. Don't know what your deal is sis, but you have no right to preach whatever it is your selling here, because this is our site, our home..for the the TG community. Don't feel good bout yourself? Try dear abby. Your thinking I'm the bitch of the south, huh? Well your right, I am and proud of it. Bet your pretty pissed or disgusted with me right about now, huh? Good, ya should be. I'm not a mental case..been certified. Tired of listening to bored cis chicks tell me how tough it is. I all ready know this. Go post on FB or join a TG support group. But stay off our site and stop rubbing our noses in this.


    I am now in reciept of the message above..


    I have to think hard and be fair,    firstly I would not exactly class it as hate mail, misguided, unwaranted yes,   We need all the understanding and support we can get, from all people regardless of gender or their percieved gender, Lisa on one hand is recounting her personal experiences as an ovarian woman, fair enough, the sender of the IM is being overly sensative.  The first thing none trans people using this site supporting us need is a down to earth insight into the pressures, we go through.    No trans person can honestly say they would not have preffered a 'normal' life, but there again, if we were not trans we would not know the difference.   Me I was born a boy, I had the genitalia of a boy, why did I look like a girl, later on why did I have a penchant for dressing in my sisters clothes, I wanted to be normal.  People should not be afraid of walking on eggshells, when posting, yes a bit of thought might help, but honesty with most people will out we should not be overly sensative to others profiles or postings.   Normal people have issues, experiences, it is a good thing they bother to come to GS to learn and understand.

    I honestly think comments like rubbing our noses in it was uncalled for, there was no intention to demean or trivialise being what we are, actually the person who wrote the IM to Lisa is a very attractive, passable trans person, but that should not be the issue, I have had my fair share of hate male, most of it from other trans people.    People can read too much into what is said on the internet, to quick to respond to what they see as direct critism. they take it personally when it was'nt intended.    I'm sure the person who wrote the IM is not a hateful person, frsutrated, overly sensative probably, I'm the first one to stick my oar in if people are insulted or belittled on here. and what gender, or how they look is of no imporatance to me.   During my time, I have met some of the most lovely looking trans women, a lot of them are so ugly inside.

    This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at March 23, 2016 4:57 PM GMT
    • 0 posts
    March 23, 2016 4:53 PM GMT

    Hi Lisa.

    No problems about the unofficial award , it was an idea I came up with years ago here to give recognition to members for different things. You are very kind so you deserve it.


    It is easy for people to take me the wrong way as I even admit I can be blunt on occasions on the internet. Some of my posts may sound harsh but they are true. But I am human so If I ever do make a mistake I will openly apologise.

    The one thing I dislike in people is selfishness , there is no need for it as we are all capable of giving something. Selfishness is a choice. It does not have to be money but just offering others a helping hand is enough, that is why I said your input is valued here.


    In the link at the end of this post is a classic example of a selfish individual. Someone comes to this website with a problem and gets very good advice "Free advice". The individual gives "Nothing back" The individual has not joined in with any other topic or offered to help others , it is all about them self.

    I observe things and I have been accussed of being to observant far to often. I can spot who comes here for self gain and who comes here to help others , your posts are useful and interesting (my observation).


    This link is pure selfishness on the original posters part , there is no other word for it. It shows selfisness towards this website and the posters wife and son http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/10112/divorcing-and-the-unreasonable-transexual


    Take care , Julia xx

  • March 23, 2016 5:02 PM GMT
    Yes, I felt icky when I read it right before bed, so I was tossing and turning and got crappy sleep...but after reading it again two days later, I have a different perspective and don't feel anything when reading it. I thought this person represented all the hundreds of quiet, silent members, that this person was saying what everyone else might feel. But from the outpouring of mature, sweet members, my outlook has changed for the better.

    Everyone is at different stages in life regarding their thoughts and feelings about themselves and others. I STILL feel uncomfortable when I see a bunch of gregarious, outgoing women chatting in a group. I'm more reserved and introverted. When I went back to university to study child development, I would see that popular group chatting and feel weird and inadequate...and yes, jealous! They're so confident and girlie, which is just not me. I feel more comfortable and confident just chatting with the quiet person next to me. Thank you, Cristine, for your insight...you are not only beautiful, but wise, logical and intelligent...hugs!
  • March 23, 2016 5:30 PM GMT
    Hello Julia, I just read your post and checked out the link, plus the "what's new" in their profile. I see what you mean. That's definitely not me, as you now know very well! I DO wish all the shy, quiet members would post more so that there's more activity/dialogue/discussion and it doesn't look like a GG is taking over!!! That's why I also felt self-conscious when I first read that PM.

    I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart when you said that my input was valued here. I do want to learn more, but also express myself, have a little fun, post questions, spread a little knowledge that I know from personal experience, and grow as a person.

    Thank you so much, Julia.

    Love, Lisa
    • 0 posts
    March 23, 2016 5:33 PM GMT

    What you received as a PM Lisa is a cowards way of telling you how they feel about you. I am so sorry you had to read that before going to sleep , some would have deleted their account here so thank you for not doing that.


    There is not one member of this site past or present that I personally would send a message to like that. In fact I rarely use the PM system and never enter the chat rooms.

    I post openly what I feel for all to see , everyone does not have to agree with me as they are my observations and opinions.

    You have observed what Cristine (Crissie) does here and you have shown your appreciation for her , she does not get enough recognition here and you have given her some. I am very proud to call her my friend and she is now yours too.

    Male admirers get a welcome here so you a welcome too. Block the member and ignore , or try to ignore the coward.

    As some here and myself included identify as female fulltime it makes us the same as you. I know from my genetic female friends that their lives are not always easy , some even say they are jealous of me but not in a cruel way.


    Take care , Julia xx

  • March 23, 2016 5:39 PM GMT
    I know, jealousy and envy are human emotions, and I know your friends are having fun with you. Hey maybe I'd get jealous of you too, you sexy mama, you!
  • March 23, 2016 9:22 PM GMT

    Let's not frighten away the 'normal' people, enter into discourse, perhaps they will pass on what they learn, to others, leading to a more lateral understanding and acceptance.

    • 0 posts
    March 23, 2016 10:41 PM GMT

    This website should be welcoming to all genders. Sometimes a few head cases will come here and make strange posts and vanish. I posted in a topic from a 6 year old member (yes 6 year old) and my post which I considered to be funny was deleted , the insulting ones from others were left behind.


    We cannot welcome 6 year olds , although some do have more common sense than a few adults on here. I have to spend my life with so called normal people , if I did not I would be very isolated. In fact I would have no business without them , I have not knowingly had a transgender customer. The females accept me as one of them and 99.9% of males treat me with respect. To gain acceptance we have to let people know we exist and live normal lives. We or I have no choice but to interact with the general public and I enjoy it , I enjoy meeting people and also they learn from me.

    I feel as normal as the next woman and I personally think it is a good thing to have genetic females here.


    Take care , Julia xx

    • 0 posts
    March 24, 2016 9:14 PM GMT

    As this website is named The Gender Society and Lisa has a gender , hopefully this can now be put to bed. I do not know who sent the PM to Lisa and have no wish to but I can have a guess , please feel free to send your thoughts on me if you have the guts. If I have blocked you then you will have to do it in a forum post or the home page.

    So Lisa is a genetic female and I can see no problem with that so why should anyone else?. She has not yet been given a real chance here yet but she participates , so if you have a problem with her keep it to yourself or take a look in the mirror and slag yourself off.


    At the end of the day we are all human , we all have human emotions. Gender does not really come into this it is about care not hurting people whatever gender. The world is a mess right now with wars and terror threats and children starving just because it does not rain to grow crops and keep animals alive. Just be pleased that someone took her time to come here and was interested enough to want to get to know us regardless of her assigned gender at birth , to me that shows she cares.


    You all take care xx

    • 1652 posts
    March 24, 2016 11:55 PM GMT

    Hello Lovely Lisa,

    There seems to be a certain amount of self-loathing by the writer of the message you received so I should try not to take it personally, and I hope it won't put you off this site at all. You are a hugely valuable member and we need more like you.

    The sender suggests you join a TG support group...

    Actually, this IS a TG support group. Membership is not confined to trans people; all are welcome here including admirers, friends, family, supporters or anyone who may just be curious. There is no particular gender qualification required to be here, so you are very, very welcome.

    Most of us love women and don't have a problem with them posting their thoughts and feelings here. In fact we'd encourage *anyone* to join and be an active member, as long as they play nice.

    Personally I don't believe that god f****** me or anyone else up, I mean, if you believe in a god - he's perfect, right? He doesn't go f****** things up does he? No... that's all just nonsense in my opinion; nature made me this way, I'm ok with that. Life is fleeting, being bitter about the hand you were dealt doesn't help.

    It's quite clear from our succinctly written T's & C's that verbal aggression towards another member is forbidden and will not be tolerated, however justified they feel it may be, so please inform Cristine or myself if it happens again.

    Be happy, and I look forward to hearing more from you.

    Lovely Lucy



  • March 25, 2016 1:45 PM GMT
    Hello Lovely Lucy,
    Thank you for taking the time to write such a welcoming, beautiful, and insightful post. You are a very warm and welcoming--and gorgeous woman! I will let you or Cristine know if It happens again, but I hope you gals never have to hear from me about this topic ever again. Love, Lisa
    • 2017 posts
    March 27, 2016 8:43 PM BST

    Lisa, don't let one person's rant's make you leave the site. This site is and always has been for TG, TS, TV, CD, CIS, Admirers, supporters, SO's etc. You are as welcome here as anyone else and you have as much right to be here. There is always someone, somewhere who will seek to hurt you with words, just as CIS women have attacked TG women and see us as nothing but freaks, men in dresses, and that includes if you are post op! It's just ignorance and like Donald Trump, should be ignored. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no need to attack someone personally. 


    As for a god. I don't believe in one but I feel privilaged to have had the opportunity to see both worlds. Some would call it a curse, but I suppose that depends on your own perspective and way of dealing with what life throws at you. 


    As Lucy said, we love women, and men, we aren't biased here. Most of my friends are women and I had a huge amount of advice and tips from women to help me as I was coming out. They didn't always get it right of course because yes, CIS women have a different experience and different issues. You will not have had to deal with getting rid of stubble permanantly but then I will never know period pain or childbirth!! Two women with shared, but different experiences, but women all the same. 




  • March 28, 2016 2:57 PM BST
    Perfectly stated, Nikki, thank you for imparting your wisdom and common sense here and in practically every post I read from you here on GS. You truly are a valued member here, and I won't be scared away or bullied into leaving as long as you stay, as well as the many other members who share your qualities that I have been lucky enough to encounter here, stick around, too.. Thank you, Nikki!
    This post was edited by Former Member at March 31, 2016 6:39 PM BST
  • March 29, 2016 9:51 PM BST


    As my 'sisters' have already stated earlier in this thread there are always people who will be pleasent around others & then unpleasent when they are alone with you or send nasty messages through IM's or PM's. This is always a small minority and does not represent the greater membership feelings towards other members whichever inclination they are.

    For me the nearest choice would be admirer but I chose not to acknowledge the admirer choice because of the sterotypical view of an admirer just cruising the site. I do not pay attention to what others think of me, those that wish to communicate with you and get to know you will spend the time to befriend you & get to know you building friendships