I know this Rhia because our elder brothers, who served there boasted about it. By the way it is "Worthy Oriental Gentlemen".
(Actually my elder brother fought into Germany.)

Well said, Rhia. Now, can anyone tell me why, in the U.S.A. especially, much is made of the September 11, 2001, attack on the twin towers...Horrific as that was...An attack by Islamic terrorists on innocent people, yet there is never any mention of the Oklahoma bombing...Horrific as that was...An attack by American terrorists on innocent people?

ziggy, welcome back...And you are not that which you say. You express opinions which may be unpalatable to some, but your soul is where it should be.

Much love, Elly. XXXX

A QUESTION ABOUT THE ON-GOING WAR AGAINST TERRORISM.

22/7/46. Zionist guerrillas bomb British HQ.
17/11/46. Jewish terrorists kill 8 British soldiers.
2/3/47. Martial law for Jews in Palestine.
24/4/47. Barracks blown up by Jews in Tel Aviv.
4/5/47. Zionists blast open prison: 251 freed.
18/7/47. British keep out "EXODUS 47".(Ship carrying Jewish refugees).
31/7/47. Zionists hang kidnapped British soldiers.
26/9/47. Britain ready to leave Palestine.
14/5/48. Arab forces muster as new state of Israel is born.

24/851. Kenyan police fear growth of Mau Mau.
24/8/52. Curfew for Kenyans as police fight Mau Mau.
21/10/52. UK gets tough with Mau Mau.
18/12/52. Jomo Kenyatta is charged with being head of Mau Mau.
26/1/53. Whites panic as Mau Mau uprising grows.
8/4/53. Mau Mau leader Kenyatta is jailed.
9/3/54. Mass surrender of Mau Mau is sought.
24/4/54. Big drive on Mau Mau.
19/1/55. Mau Mau amnesty infuriates whites.
28/7/59. Commons uproar at Kenya death camps.
21/8/61. Kenyatta released from British custody.
12/12/64. Kenya becomes a republic under Kenyatta.

18/12/54. British bars stoned by rioters in Cyprus.
30/6/55. Arms siezed in raid on HQ of Cypriot nationalists.
30/9/55. General strike in Cyprus.
28/11/55. State of alert in Cyprus.
12/1/56. More British troops sent to Cyprus.
29/2/56. Bombings mark new Cyprus impasse.
9/3/56. British deport (Archbishop) Makarios.
25/3/56. Cyprus governor spends night on a bomb.
25/5/56. Large reward offered for capture of Greek-Cypriot terrorist (Colonel George Grivas).
212/7/56. New constitution planned for Cyprus.
27/9/56. British Cyprus troops in toffee tin blast.
20/3/57. Greece rejects new Cyprus peace plane.
28/1/58. 100 Turks hurt and 2 killed in ant-British riots in Cyprus.
2/10/58. EOKA renews its violent campaign.
23/2/59. Peace deal is hammered out in Cyprus.
14/12/59. (Archbishop) Makarios is new president of Cyprus.

If you know the question and the answer, what do you conclude?

Any chance of a clue?

Not yet love.

Firstly it was cut and run,
Then a small war barely won,
The 3rd it ended at the table,
Good friends were we,
Or was it all a fable?

Expand Ziggy?

So are you suggesting that you give into the muslim terrorists and everyone should convert to Islam? Thats what its wounding like.

Ziggy
I was not specifically talking to you ....
Just that the point of this thread seems to be leading up to that.

Sandi and Ziggy, I fear that your replys are not showing on my page.

Not to mention the use and abuse of Afghanistan during the cold war by both the US and the USSR, thus giving rise to Al-qaeda and the taliban, which gave rise to 9/11, which gave rise to the "war on terror", which in turn gave rise to the attack on London.

Nor the forced "redrawing" of the middle east map by the British after 1917 and the subsequest occupation of Iraq, followed by the installation of west-friendly dictators by the US AND the UK, ending with Saddam hussein, which gave rise to his atrocious treatment of the people of Iraq, which gave rise to the rebellion which the US promised they would support but didn't, which gave rise to Saddams use of chemical weapons on those people, which gave rise to re-percussions from the international community which gave rise to Husseins stubborn and COMPLETELY anti-west stance, which indirectly gave rise to the first Gulf War, which gave rise to <snip> (you get the idea)... and in turn the second gulf war, etc etc.

Nor the brutal treatment of the native people of India while colonised by the commonwealth...

Nor the forcible destruction of the Palistinian state, and the forcible creation of the Israeli state, against the will of the Arab world and without their consent.

Let us not forget all the people used and trained by the UK and US to further their own greedy needs, while it suited - not least of which is Osama Bin Laden - whose family still own large swathes of US corporate interests.

... it goes on and on.

Despite what the people up high try to say (they are the ones benefiting from the chaos in the world today), Islamic terrorism isn't about converting everyone to Islam, and isn't about destroying democracy or freedom (islamic terrorists don't see the west as free. They see the west as a facist controlling power, whose population are slaves to the 8 hour working day and commercialism).

I despise terrorists, and I despise their methods, but I'm not blind to why they are doing it.

Creating more terrorists isn't really a good way to stop terrorism. Giving in won't stop it either.

What would stop terrorism would be to stop treating the arab people as a bunch of third or fourth rate expendable pieces of crap, and to apologise for the past wrongs that we have commited (and I mean sincerely - which means that we have to try to go some way to setting our wrongs right!). All that's happening at the moment, is that 16 year old boys and girls are seeing cities like falluja being reduced to rubble and innocent people killed, and so taking up arms against the people doing it. Both sides at the moment are as bad as each other in terms of fighting, and it's only getting worse.

I'm not for giving in, and I'm not for fighting either. I'm all for putting and end to the killing, and doing right by our past (and some current!) wrongs. Those people that right now are taking arms against us may well then turn around ad take issue with them instead.

So many have fallen, in so many lands, and the behest of so many, for causes the believed in....

all governments say they won't talk to terrorists, they spend years finding ways to call them other than terrorist so they can talk to them.

understand them, step one has to be to understand these people.

step two is to avoid judging others by our own standards, the whole world isn't California (appologies to our Americans, but you know what I mean, everywheres the same).

Every time people have gone to war without understanding their opponents they have failed, people who start wars tend to loose. the difference these days in in who started it and why, there is hope, there is always hope.

so the wind reap the whirlwind, how soon people forget.

Clair, Rhia, found you at last! And what need I say except ask another question; which of those named countries is now a leader in the "war against terroism"? During WW2, in North Africa, there was a saying; "if you run over a "wog" and the "wog" was still alive, then put the vehicle in reverse and finish the job", because it was cheaper to bury the "wog", than to heal the injuries. Does anyone not think that the "wogs" would forget this and every other humiliation heaped upon them? And when the time was ripe they would start to hit back? Also I find it somewhat ironical that the driver of "the Bus" is a Greek Cypriot. Now before anyone says I have no feeling for the victims of last weeks's outrage, and seem to favour Islam I don't just feel for them, but I also feel for the ordinary people in Iraq, I feel for the two NCOs who were kidnapped by Jewish terrotists, executed, and their booby-trapped bodies hung in a eucalyptus orchard. I know that because, at the time,I saw A picture of the scene in the Picture Post.

No Sari, I do not advocate "giving In", I merely wish to point out the utter futility of it all. The language used against those countries mentioned is no different from that used today, and ultimately the end result will be the same. Someone somewhere will have to sit down and talk, but between now and then it will be more lives lost, more treasure expended.

I didn't know about that saying! Still, given that wog stands for Western ORIENTAL gentleman (the implication of which is that a wog is not a FULL gentleman, but something else instead), it just goes to demonstrate the bigotry and arrogance. How many oriental people are you likely to find in Africa? lol

With this kind of thinking I cannot sit back and relax while feeling sorry for them... they would not think twice about us.
Looks more and more like the Crusades 2005.

GLOBAL JIHAD
Muslim scholar: Killing civilians OK
Head of Islamic center in London responds to attack

Posted: July 12, 2005
10 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Hani Al-Siba'i
Responding to questions about the terrorist attack on London, a Muslim scholar in the British capital asserted Islam makes no distinction between civilians and military targets.
"The term 'civilians' does not exist in Islamic religious law," said Hani Al-Siba'i, head of the Al-Maqreze Centre for Historical Studies in London.
Al-Siba'i, in an interview with the Arab news channel al-Jazeera, elaborated, "There is no such term as 'civilians' in the modern Western sense. People are either of Dar Al-Harb or not."

"Crusade 2005", Sandi. If this is an allusion to the events of the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries, then perhaps you might tell me why, prior to 1095AD, when Christian pilgrims were free to travel to Jerusalem to worship, and were given to protection to do so by Islam, Pope Urban 2 would wish to secure "free access for pilgrims to Jerusalem" when they already had same? Sound familiar?

This isn't me expressing support for Islam, indeed I consider their religious views to be quite abhorrant, as I do the views of all main-stream religions, it is simply history.

...those civillians (Killed-Sic) were in Kenya and cyprus, not in London and New york. Now THAT really does crack me up.

Their overall objective is to stop western governments ruining their lives - as they have done since the Crusades. By the way, just to let you know, while Islam may well not see the concept of civilians in the same way the west does, Islam (certainly in the UK) does NOT see these terrorists as true muslims either. What they follow is a corrupt version of it, in much the same way that the catholic church has historically used a corrupt version of christianity to kill and terrorise millions.

Nobody feels sorry for the terrorists. There's a big difference between understanding them and feeling sorry for them. However, making more of them is not the option. I'm not even suggesting that we sit at a table with them and negotiate.

Western governments know all too well what they've done to create this situation over the years - but none of them want to put the money and efort into correcting their wrongs. If they did, islamic terrorism wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Jill.
1) I don't see anything that is "amusing" in your observations.
2) If EOKA and the MAU MAU were fighting an occupying power, then what are the Iraqi insurgents fighting?
3) Whatever you say about April, 1995, it was still an act by "AMERICAN TERRORISTS", and, if it isn't "NEW", then where does that place September, 2001?
4) I do grasp your point, but do you grasp mine?
5) My point is that there appear to be 4 options.
1) Ignore.
2) Cut and run (Israel).
3) Fight and win (Kenya).
4) Negotiate (Cyprus).
Whichever, the result is still the same. Our enemies ALL became our friends. This isn't me surrendering to extremism, or agreeing with the aims of the bombers,etc. It is historical fact, so sooner rather than later is my view.

Yes I see you points.

"2) If EOKA and the MAU MAU were fighting an occupying power, then what are the Iraqi insurgents fighting? "

As it appears now they are going after soft targets, like yesterday when they set off a bomb, blowing up a group of children that were given candy by the US Army

"3) Whatever you say about April, 1995, it was still an act by "AMERICAN TERRORISTS", and, if it isn't "NEW", then where does that place September, 2001? "

You don't hear anything aboout Oklahoma because it is a closed case, not so with 9-11.

"4) I do grasp your point, but do you grasp mine? "

Yes its called surrender

"5) My point is that there appear to be 4 options.

Whichever, the result is still the same. Our enemies ALL became our friends."

Unfortunetly this is a totally different fight. THe terrorist are not a country. They are not demanding anything other than converting everyone in the world to their brand of Islum.

"This isn't me surrendering to extremism, or agreeing with the aims of the bombers,etc. It is historical fact, so sooner rather than later is my view."

So I hope you as a women enjoy burkas and don't mind being a second class citizen or worse just thought to be someones property, because that is what would happen.

Sandi. May I draw your attention to 2 of my previous posts.
1)"I do not advocate giving in...".
2)The last paragraph of "Crusade 2005".
As for April-1995, being a done deal, so is the battle of Yorktown, but it still gets a mention now and then.

The following is a slightly re-worded piece I did on another subject, with some additions, and I repeat it because it may go some way towards explaining why we see these things differently.

Some of my earliest youth was spent in an air-raid shelter anxiously listening to the sound of the approaching bomb-laden Dorniers. I well remember my Mum holding me and screaming "it's going to hit us!"...It didn't, but the nearby public convenience was never re-built...And then the relief at the sound of the all-clear sirens. Incidentally, our family shelter had 3 feet of water in it, so if the bombs didn't get you, then death by drowning was always on the cards... When I was 18, Like thousands of others, I had no option but to take the Queen's shilling...Being national servicemen we didn't actually get it, and believe me, that "bob" would have come in useful. Anyway, I went to Germany, just 3 miles down the road from Belsen, which I have already mentioned elsewhere. These and other events in my long life have shown me the utterly pointless futility of hatred and intolerence among the the many base emotions with which we humans forever seek to saddle ourselves. I am well aware that, with my views, I probably wouldn't last 5 minutes in either the middle east or, for example, middle America, or southern Baptist land, and my proclivity for dressing as a lady would certainly have got me burned 300 years ago in my own country, and maybe the same in present-day middle east, middle America, etc., but that's me folks.

one final thing Sandi, I do not, for one moment, assume that your life has not had it's moments of fear, sadness, terror, et al. Nor would I want to change your opinions - indeed I am one of those plonkers who will always be there to support you, as I hope you will support me, if the chips are down, but I still say
the best way forward is "jaw-jaw not war-war" (Winston Chuchill -
Colonel-in-chief of the of the 4th Queen's Own Hussars - my regiment).

Elly
I know you said that you do not advocte giving in to the terrorist, however the last part of the post implied that we should.
Like I said before... previous groups wanted something specific,
whether it was a land grab or political recognition. Some sort of compromise could be worked out around a conference table. Even
if it took some bombings and shootings to get people to the table.
The current crop of Islamic terrorist have only one thing on their mind and that is the total destruction of wester culture as we know it. There is no bargaining or a reachable compromise to be worked out.
I was drafted into the army and know war is the last place anyone wants to be. However there are times where wars must be fought to maintain our way of life...and make no mistake thats what this is about.
I take great offense with your statement "I probably wouldn't last 5 minutes in either the middle east or, for example, middle America..........
Have you ever been here? Typical stereo typing.. You are actually comparing Middle America with the middle east? I think this statement exposes your paranoria. From my experience you are safer in Middle America than you are in the liberal big cities... just take a look at the crime statistics .
I believe in free speech and again I will defend your right to say what you think but I don't have to agree with it.

well sandi, I have just posted a real old humdinger of a diatribe against you and your country, something to really get your knickers in a twist, but I can't find the sodding thing anywhere, knowing my expertise it's probably ended up in British West Hartlepools! Anyway if it turns up will you let me know, or else I will have to repeat it.
Much Love, Elly. XXXX

Well Sandi, I was going to give you a few home truths about your country and offend you even more, but why?, that makes me no better than.......'though the option is there if you wish? Suffice to say that you do not seem to have the faintest idea about that which you speak of. This may be to do with the fact
that yours is either a sychophantic media...eg. Sky News, which as no interest in telling you good people anything even resembeling the truth, or a cowed media terrified of losing their corporate sponsorship if they speak out of turn...Mr Blumenthal's words, not mine.

I can't resist this one though. Since your countries occupation of Iraq began, 8 billion dollars, that's correct, 8 billion dollars of Iraqi money, given into the care of Mr Bremer, has disappeared, with most of it going into the coffers of U.S. companies, and then, some of it, into the coffers of the Republican party.
But that's "freedom fries" for you.

Jill. You have expressed a wish to know that which the "terrorists" want, and why?

The sad fact is that they want to see the back of you, because they, and I fear, a large section of this world's population hate you and everything that you purport to represent. I can, if you wish expand on this, 'though it would not give me any satisfaction to do so. And, before Sandi chimes in, I am not one of that number.

Finally, I will end this posting as I began it, with a question.


Which Central Asian MOSLEM dictator, with a penchant for boiling his opponents alive, is currently being propped up by your military, and why?

If you can answer that, then you might begin to realise why much
of our benighted planet does not see you as the "good guys".

the current war on terrorism is a scam.. perpetuated on the peoples of the world for one simple goal. CONTROL..

a sypmtom of a male driven world.

and i do mean SCAM.. the socalled "terrorists" are nothing more than a american bought, trained and controlled radicals with only the plans OUR goverment has given them.

and id hate to be called a conspiracy nut, but the "terror" attacks that have been shoved down our throats is nothing more than the elaborate plan of the US goverment to gain more control of the normal peoples through the so called "security" delusion.

twa800, oklahoma city, the first WTC attack and the last WTC attack were all disgusting and deliberate attacks of the US goverment on our"freedoms"
and i worry that even the madrid and london attacks were an extension of their fanatical ideology..

btw it has been proven several times that demolition expolsives were used on all the buildings..

a very interesting link with lots of documentaries
http://www.heartbone.com/various/RedPillVideos.html

take care
kyli

ben franklin once said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"

dont judge till you look at all the evidence..


take care
kyli

Well Jill, as the man some of you good people recently voted your greatest ever president once said, "There you go again.

I am not even remotely aware that I have "spent time and energy to use this forum attacking the U.S.(sic)"....I am, however, aware of your seeming reluctance to consider, and reply to many of my points...I am also aware of your seeming reluctance to use the phrase "American Terrorists", why not?...Are you in denial?
Then there is awareness of your anger...Against whom?...Most importantly though, is my awareness of your reaction to Kiryana's posting...Distasteful in the extreme.

I am also well aware of my own countries shortcomings, which many of us discuss, even, sometimes, with our political masters.

When, if ever, was the last time your political master faced an independant public forum?

Perhaps if you were to unwrap yourself from "Old Glory", and divest yourself of your "My country right or wrong" attitude, and step into the real world, then you might begin to see yourselves as others see you. It isn't very nice.

World War Two animosity?

There was a very popular saying then. It went..."When the Germans bomb, the British hide...When the British bomb, the germans hide...When the Yanks bomb, EVERYBODY hides!"

The above may not mean anything to you, but it sure as hell did the the Polish Brigade at Monte Cassino


It may also not feature in your history books...That is if you have any?

Now THAT is an attack on your culture, and I'm not even out of breath from the energy expended...Naughty me!

Now an observation.

It is a sad fact that those such, as your good self, consistently underestimate we "Bleeding Heart Liberals"....Apart from our main occupation, which is cleaning up after the neo-cons have finished playing with their toys, all we want is to live in peace and friendship with our neighbours. However, if our neighbours will not reciprocate, then, and only after every avenue of reasonableness has been exhausted, we stand up to be counted.

Unlike your current crop of rulers (not leaders), whose main preoccupation is to fight to the last drop of everyone else's blood. A fact which seems to pass you good people by...Even as the weekly bodybags arrive home.

And finally, back to being offended.

"Lodonistan, the crossroads of world terrorism"

This while we were still recovering our dead and injured.

Need I say More?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarc[...]010430/

Lucy, who's posts have you been reading? I have never referred to "Conspiracy" in any shape or form. However, I will remind you of the "preposterous" Reichstag fire.

"Personal attacks"

Lucy, I ask again. Who's posts have you been reading? At no time have I made a personal attack on anyone, though I have myself been referred to as "paranoid", and been told that I don't "understand", but I have a broad back.

"Twat"

Lucy WHO'S posts have you been reading? At no time have I accused anyone of being responsible for the actions of their government, nor have I used that kind of language.

Lucy, if I have risen to "bait", then it must have been laid by others, so why not have a go at them for laying it in the first place?

Oh by the way, Lucy. I was raised in Leeds, 'though it was a long time ago.

I Love Lucy, Elly. XXXX

I'm guessing my posts have been completely ignored.

Could this possibly be because I have made it clear that I DO NOT advocate giving in to the terrorists, but I CAN NOT condone the way that BOTH the UK AND USA are going around creating more terrorism, and condemn BOTH EQUALLY.

Or maybe it's because nobody wants to aknowledge the fact that it was the west that created this situation in the first place and continues to do so - or perhaps the fact That I turned terrorists back into real human beings - albeit nasty evil ones - and showed what their fight is really about - the fact that the west has ruined their lives and continues to do so.

At this time, I'm thinking that BOTH sides need to com back to reality. While both sides are fighting each other like this, the people in charge are literally getting away with murder because everybody's too wrapped up to watch it.

If you want to stop terrorism, or you want stop facism, take control of your own unaccountable beaurocratic corrupt governments first.

Please, stop the world a moment. I WANNA GET OFF!

Rhia, I have read your posts, and I agree that the debate appears to have moved away from it's original contention, which was, and still is, that no matter what is said and done, someone, somewhere, is going to have to sit down and TALK. And until that day comes, if it ever does, then more children, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, grandmas, grandpas, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, lovers, yes, and enemies, will either die horrible deaths, or suffer dreadful injuries. And can anyone, hand on heart, on either side, see the justification in that?

As for corrupt governments, AND their most ardent enemies, AND their most ardent supporters, I see them ALL as morally bankrupt people, who long ago, sold their souls to REX MUNDI.

And Rhia, don't get off the world, at least not just yet, because if we are to rid ourselves of these monstrous people, on all sides I might add, then we need all the help we can get.

Much Love, Elly. XXXX

P.S. And, before anyone jumps on me, and says there you go, you DO condemn the terrorists after all, I have, all along, merely tried to point out that, however unpalatable, there are historical reasons for their actions, and to point to the contradictions in various opinions expressed, which as far as I can see puts you and I, Rhia, side by side.

btw governments throughout history have perpetuated "terrorist" attacks against their own peoples for as long as men were in control..

nero burned rome to start the persecution of christians..

hitler burned one of the governmental buildings to allow himself to be placed as fuhrer..

the US government allowed the attacks on pearl harbor to happen to start the amerikan war machine moving. they knew for months that it was coming.. and even dismantled radar stations on the base to make sure no one could see it coming. even the history channel has stated this fact..

and osama was trained and harbored in amerika for quite sometime. and used as a fear tactic against the american peoples. whenever the government needed a distraction from the sad truth of their ignorance. they rolled out the "osama" to attack something .. including the uss cole.. planned and payed for with american dollars.. why else would they have on several occassions just happen to "miss" an opportunity to kill him.. actually several times this tactic was used.. including the videos that would surface whenever the current pres was having problems..

its sad and scary.. BUT TRUE..

take care
kyli

Lucy, thank you for your courteous and dignified reply to my far
too bombastic reaction to your previous posting, I fear that my ego overcame my heart, which was wrong of me.

As to your hypothesis, why not post it as a new debate? I feel sure that it will generate a great deal of comment, both for and against.

Ziggy...Well said!

Much love to you both, Elly. XXXXX

Elly
1. I wasn't defending the US government I don't back everything they do. I was in favor of invading Iraq at first when the mission was to find the WMDs. There were none there so it is time for the US to leave. As Bush stated before the war,
We are not into Nation building, however that appears to have changed as did my support for the war.
2. I was you refering to the fact that you would not feel safe in middle America and put it right there with being in Iraq. That is what I found offensive and a bit arrogant on your part.
3. I do believe we are in the middle of a cultural war and it is all about Islam. Think about it, census show that with the current immigration policies both England and France will have Islamic majorities by 2030! The Chruch of England will be a mosque.

Dear Sandi and Jill.
Sandi.

I am often told by other people that the football team I support are "Crap", or worse. This doesn't offend me, because it's true, and even if it weren,t I wouldn't want to get my knickers in a twist about it.

Middle America.

I regularly tour the "Christian" Bible Belt sites in your country. All I ever see is a great outpouring of hatred, intolerence, and threats against "niggers", "gays", "Jews", and anyone else who they do not perceive as "normal", or "patriotic".
Now if the "Christian" Bible Belt is not a part of "Middle America", then I hold my hands up to geographical ignorance,
otherwise, as we appear to be at an impasse, what's the use in continuing with this particular discussion?

Jill.
Where to begin?

I do not know your politics, nor am I interested. Equally, I am not aware that I have referred to you personaly as a "neo-con"

Political debate.
The highlight for me, and maybe for millions of others,(please note that I don't actually say that it WAS the highlight for millions of others), was the sight of Mr Bush, in debate with Mr Kerry, with a plainly to be seen lump under his jacket, which figured a great deal in the world's media, and was surmised , not by me I hasten to add, to be some kind of communication device. If it were, and again I hasten to add that I don't know one way or the other, then it doesn't say much for open or honest debate does it? If, however, it was a despicable attempt, to smear Mr Bush, and not true, then could it have been a conspiracy by person or persons unknown?...Again I hasten to add that I myself have absolutely no opinion either way, and I am neither accusing, condoning, nor including anyone or anything.
in these events.

Kyliana?

There is an old addage Jill..."When you are in a hole, stop digging".

And now:....Americans I love!

Bebe Daniels; Film actress, comedienne, singer, dancer, writer, equally at home in either drama or comedy, began her hollywood career with the great Harold Lloyd in many of his early comedies, easily transferred to talkies, and, for me, effortlessly stole the show from Ruby Keeler in 42nd street, then, in the late thirties to London with hubby Ben Lyon, quickly became a great success on B.B.C. radio with "Hi! Gang",
which broadcast continually throughout the blitz, indeed on some recordings of the show there can be heared the sound of exploding bombs.

Franklyn Delano Roosevelt; Despite strong opposition from the Republican party, he gave my country everything that he could
when we were alone against the Nazis.

Ralph Waldo Emerson; for his poetry, and his belief in the soul.

Composers; far too many to list, so Berlin, Gershwin, all the way to Brian Wilson.

Novelist; Kenneth Roberts..."Lydia Bailey", A Rabble In Arms", "Northwest Passage", "Oliver Wiswell",...which was the only book that General "Skinny" Wainwright had with him when he went into Japanese captivity, after the fall of Coregidor.

This is only a tiny fraction of my feelings for all that is great about the United States Of America, I know that it is all from the past, but, then again, so am I.

I really do love you both.
Elly.
XXXX

yes i have looked at both the evidence put forth by our government and secondary sources.. the "official" responses just doesnt add up to me..
highgrade steel does not melt from the flash fuel burn that they say it does. it takes more than 2000Fdegrees to melt contruction grade steel.. the fire burned for only minutes and reached a maximum of 1000F. and also all the "junk" that was removed from the site was shipped out of country and smelted with no real investigation into the actual cause of the collapse.. I have seen arson houses sit for years after the actual burn.. so that investigators can keep coming back to make sure of the what and when and where answers this type of situations present.
i dont believe anything bush and his accomplices say or present to the press.. they have been caught numerous times lying straight faced to the world on so many other cases.
and jill sweetie, i hold nothing against your responses because ive heard the arguments before. and yes ive done the antidepressants and antimanics. im not much for the drone effect they have on humans.. the medication isnt fit to be flushed down my toilet.
besides did you know that amerika is the largest producer and consumer of said medications. says something about the addictability of such medicine.
not to mention the ridculous "war on drugs" what a COLOSSAL waste of money, time and human life. since the beggining of this forgotten war our prisons have filled to well over 2million americans for nonviolent offenses. add to that since the begining the amount of coke has doubled and herion has tripled. and we produce more than 20,000 metric tons of cannabis. really effective..
o btw i prefer cannabis for my less frequent bouts of depresssion. safer, cleaner and more effective with no chance of addiction.

take care
kyli

To suggest that the last attack on the World Trade Centre was organised by the American government is simply delusional. The terrorists are out to kill people, they don’t need the US government’s encouragement, training, money or whatever. The idea that the government would think it in any way beneficial to stage such attacks is preposterous, and verging on offensive to normal thinking human beings.
3 of the 4 London bombers were from Leeds, if you believe in a US conspiracy theory you should go there sometime. Please get real, for your own sake.
I rarely make public comment about such matters, I avoid political debate wherever possible, but one thing that mystifies me is the way people criticise each other’s country and in doing so make it a personal attack on that individual. However it may be implied, the notion that “your government did this, so you are a twat” is ridiculous. Why rise to the bait of such a nonsensical argument?
The terrorists may claim they act in the name of Allah; they are deranged. There is no god, the bombers are not in paradise, they are in thousands of tiny, decomposing little pieces. Dead.
Love your neighbour, make being human a religion, and stop hating.

Elly, my comments were not directed towards you. Nor were they a criticism of any of your own.
I merely wished to state my feelings about the notion that America is responsible for Global terrorism.
Isn't that what the terrorists want us to think; that it's all their fault?
And I've been reading everyone's posts as usual, since you ask.
xx