Yesterday I had a glance at my diary from last December as I was in Tampere for the needed second shrink opinion for my juridical sex change. Our conversation was like this:
She: What do you consider yourself now? I: A woman, actually not even a transwoman any more. She: Do you believe it is permanent? I: Yes, that is my end station. Then I said: Funny that I must still apply for my official sex. She: Well, that would be a funny world you were given the sex without applying. I: How come? I was given already once a sex without asking me anything. Now, when the mistake is obvious, it should be corrected as automatically, based on medical facts.

This made me write The Tuesday (TS) Declaration about screening and treatment of transsexuals

1) The screened persons must be treated friendly and with respect.

2) The screened persons must be kept up to date about their proceeding. No secrets.

3) After the diagnosis the screened person turns into a patient, who has the RIGHT to have the needed treatments. She must get the treatments without unnecessary delay.

4) The change of name and juridical sex are granted to the patient, without unnecessary applying and begging.

5) The patient has the right to expect a beg of apologize from the society and the governmental system for having been treated wrong for years.

Laura

What we need is an EU directive. And there should be included, not only the minimum screening time (in our case 6 months), but also the maximum time. We have cases as well, put on side tracks for years, without telling the reason.
Our shrinks also want to hide the percentage of the passers, they won´t even say if it is close to 50%. I cannot understand what such hiding serves.

Laura

Thank you, Laura. Must say I wish your declaration were followed to the letter. And yes, the letter of the law, Sandra. From the system here I've had some less than happy experiences already. Repeated delays and not a word on why. Experiencing that our condition isn't excactly top priority. The GID clinic chief psychiatrist's words after my first talk with him in late august: "Of course, ideally, we should meet again in a couple of weeks. But, I hope I'll be seeing you in a month." When calling the clinic secretary a few days short of that month I was told my next appointment was in five weeks. "He's on a three weeks holiday in october", she said. I reminded her of what happened in summer - being promised an appointment in late june or early july and then finding out that I was postponed to august - in the middle of my holidays. She looked through her list once more.. and found a cancellation next week. So, the hopeful doctor and I will meet on thursday.
Makes me remember - from my days as a longdistance runner - a particular finnish word: Sisu...
Seems to be required.

Linda

PS. At the clinic here in Oslo the nurse (and clinic coordinator) told me during our first talk that there's 20 out of ca. 50 patients left after a year.
She did not say why.

I know we have about 100 patients at the time "in the machine". And those having got throuhg it, as me, we are VERY seldom.
Many are set aside because of "other mental problems" as depression, not understanding that depression very probably is caused by the GID. Actually starting the HRT would likely finish the depression.

Laura

Our official numbers - in a report written by the leader of the National organization for transsexuals in Norway - for the Ministry of Health:

"4oo transsexuals have gone through the operation since 1962. Of these there are 296 operations since 1987 with numbers varying from 3 to 25 (1., 2. and 3. stage operations - which means the number of patients are below 25. My comment.) 12 patients are transferred from psychiatric care/hormonal treatment every year. 65% of those referred to the clinic are diagnosed as transsexuals and move on to stage 1 - further psychiatric care, 30% reaches stage 2 and 3 - hormonal treatment and surgery. Some of those at stage 1 need longterm psychiatric treatment before moving on to stage 2 and 3."
Transsexualism in Norway. T.M.Hansen, LFTS

These numbers confirms what the nurse at our clinic said: Last year there were 20 left out of 50 applying. A few of these were diagnosed, but did not want further treatment. (At the clinic, anyway.) The average - said to be 65% - will of course vary a lot since there are so few cases in all. There's a first screening process here too: The required referral from a certified psychiatrist. Which in my case, more or less a coincidence, happened to be my therapist.

Yes, this shallow conception of "changing our minds"... To continue your simile: They might just as well ask us how they can be sure we will not continue sleeping under a tree... We have been doing that for so long, so how come we do not want to anymore ?
They should try.

Linda

It is my opinion that those who are fortunate enough to live in countries where not only is medicine socialized, but where GRS is considered to be a necessary procedure should take a minute and count their blessings.

Certainly the beaurocracy is cumbersome and maddening, and the fact that GRS is considered a low priority is lamentable, but take a walk in my pumps for a minute.

Even those Americans fortunate enough to be covered by private health insurance (who are in the minority) are not permitted to apply their coverage to any GRS related treatment, as it is not just a low priority, but is considered to be elective. Trans patients in the US are required to pay for their transition and all related procedures out of pocket.

I just had a consultation with a surgeon for FFS procedures which will amount to around $13,000, and was fortunate to spend time with Dr Marci Bowers, the leading GRS surgeon in the US, who charges $17,000 for the procedure she offers, and this is just the surgical part of it all. Add the other associated costs, and the American trans patient is looking at probably around $50,000 altogether out of pocket.

So, before any of our UK or European sisters start crying again about how badly the system is abusing them, just take a minute and be thankful that such a system exists at all.

Sorry, but after thirty years of isolation and despair I do not count my "blessings". I'm not that modest.
And it's not of very much help to me that there are people even worse off. It simply makes me more angry as it seems to confirm the way we are treated in general. So, if conditions in the US are that bad, please don't count any blessings at all. Stand together and fight.
If you read my posts in this thread I hope you'll see that I'm not attacking the people working in this field. Well, it's not my intention, anyway. That's why I'm focusing on priorities. We are in fact a stinking rich country. As opposed to the US - or most other countries in the world for that matter - the norwegian state has an enormous fortune - comparable only to some gulf states. Now, this does, of course, make our country kind of a bad example. But it could just as well be said that this state of affairs makes certain general attitudes stand out so much clearer. A point which has in fact been debated in this country for years: When most people are - more or less - certainly more than well off, how does it feel being left out - for reasons beyond your control ? It could explain why we are at the top of the ladder when it comes to suicides too. Some blessing.

I agree, Linda. Social attitude concerning trans people and our general condition worldwide is deplorable. Just last month, in the midst of the crisis brought on by Hurricane Katrina, a displaced trans woman was arrested for using the women's shower while being sheltered at the Houston Astrodome. That the prejudice against us is so strong, indeed, that this was even an issue in a situation of such extreme emergency is an example of just how far we have yet to go in our struggle for tolerance and acceptance.

That we are subject to the scrutiny of a battery of doctors and beaurocrats at every turn during our own very personal struggle to establish the identity to which we are entitled is unconscionable in this otherwise enlightened age. We are forced to seek validation of our essential self and denied the basic right to privacy and dignity afforded even convicted felons.

I agree with you that the prevailing ignorance and the stereotypes that dominate the perception of and interaction with trans people everywhere is inconceivable in this era of technical and philosophical sophistication, and that unless we are adamant in the continuing effort to change the way we are treated, we may never be able to claim the dignity to which we are entitled.

But once again, I ask that you imagine being subjected to this scritiny and humiliation in your quest for identity, and in addition to all this, be required to pay for the privilege that should be every person's right. That a system even exists that recognizes the existence of Gender Identity Dysphoria as a "valid" condition is evidence of just what has been achieved in our behalf so far.

You and I are comparitively fortunate to live in the time in which we do. Imagine what it must have been like for sisters like Virginia Prince and Yvonne Cook-Riley to make the progress thay did during the time in which they did it. Yes, we still have a long way to go, but we must be grateful for the small victories scored by those who have gone before as we strive ever further, and we must seize each further small victory as if it were a major accomplishment, because we are faced with the mightiest of opponents; ignorance.

So, as we continue the struggle for acceptance, let's be grateful for that which we already have in the form of tacit tolerance, and yes, we should all take some solace in the fact that there are those worse off than we are. Think for a minute of the indignities that must now be suffered by our trans brothers and sisters faced with the daunting task of rebuilding their lives in the wake of the natural disaster in Louisiana, as they must face the whole process of scrutiny and validation over again, not by doctors and beaurocrats this time, but at the hands of the very "rescue workers" whose ignorance forced the shame and humiliation of our sister in Texas.

So, rather than curse the darkness, let's try to be glad we have what little we do have, and keep working so that our trans sisters and brothers in the future will not have to endure what we do, but as we do, let us not appear ungrateful for the achievements of those who came before us.

Be strong, and keep the faith, baby!

As always, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.











Me (right) with movement founder, Yvonne Cook-Riley (left)

Well, I did not say that I'm not grateful for what singular individuals have done. Of course, I am. My first thought on this thread was in fact thanking Laura for her Declaration.
But I do not "count my blessings" - and certainly not when told to do so. And I object to being told to walk in someone else's shoes when I, or anyone else for that matter, is expressing our grief and sorrow. It makes me feel I have to protect myself.

Sorry that Laura's constructive approach got somewhat sidetracked. Still, it was about being loud and clear - demanding our RIGHTS - not about contenting ourselves with what we have.


Linda

You're right, Linda. I did manage to take the original intent of the thread off on a tangient, but such is the nature of this medium for the exchange of ideas.

I agree wholeheartedly with Laura's ideas, and they are no less pertinent in the context of privatized medicine than they are in the context of socialist beaurocracy.

That we are subject to the scrutiny of the beaurocrats and medical professionals who sit in judgement over the validity of our personal identity is unacceptable, and I feel that the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care need to be amended to reflect the current treatment approach, placing a greater emphasis on more diverse means of gender expression, and that the patients must be included in the decisions that ultimately affect them.

I am sorry if my "count your blessings" statement placed a burr under your saddle, but I feel very strongly about the outdated approach to gender identity that currently prevails here in the US, as well as the lack of nationalized health care.

The point that I wished to express was that since the US is woefully behind the rest of the western world with regard to health care in general, which is available only to the affluent and the indigent, to the exclusion of the vast majority of working Americans, and since the treatment of GID is considered to be of an elective nature, the American trans person is required not only to submit to the humiliation of those who would sit in judgement over the validity of gender identity, but must pay hard earned money out of pocket for the "privilege" that is every trans person's right.

I hope that this spirited exchange has not adversely affected our ability to interact as friends and sisters, and I look forward to the future exchange of ideas.

As always, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

A burr under my saddle, yes... could be that.. I am a bit particular about words and expressions. Admit I like to ride too...

As for the conditions in the US I'm reasonably well aware, I think. I do try to understand what's happening over there. I have a sister living in NY since 1990, and a brother in law from Seattle since 2000. They're likely to stay on for good, it seems. The first years she was without an insurance. And she's a dancer... So, a constant worry.
But still, from talking to her I also know that there's more than one side to this. And that the US is, well, a lot of places. When I finally came out to her in march this year one of the first things she said was "... remember.. I have been living here for nearly fifteen years now, meeting all kinds of people. And it's not like home. If you had been living here you would see." And her meaning was, that she has been experiencing a tolerance and plurality that neither she nor I am used to.
You see, for me the worst is not that I cannot get HRT or SRS or FFS right away, but being silenced for so many years in a culture where being different to a large extent means being alone. Somehow relates to nr.5 on Laura's list I'd say.

And, as for your - implied - question, Robyn: Knowing where we stand can always be a good start.

Linda