Wondering about a few things...

    • 3 posts
    January 25, 2006 9:14 AM GMT
    More or less I've got a few questions about horomones... I'm 19 years old and transgendered (yes I know its a blanket term). I'm at the point now where I feel like i'm ready to transition fully... Currently I live at home with very unsupportive parents and am seeing a therapist. One thing I positively hate about my therapist is that most of the clients she deals with are well older than me... So most things go like this "if you were 30... or if you were a few years older"... Horomones are one of those things... I've read most of the things here and things on other sites... I dont really want to self medicate, but I have a feeling that the next time I ask my therapist about horomones the answer is going to be the same... Granted it is a lifetime decision, which is why I haven't done anything about this before, but I've bided my time long enough and am planning to bide my time for another year before doing anything... But I do want to plan just in case... I am planning on going back to school next year and living part time on campus. My thoughts will probably stay the same but at the same token I dont want to do anything that I'd regret forever... So my thoughts are this... since I haven't really been able to live full time as of yet, would it be wise just to go on an androgen blocker... I've read that most effects are reversible and its not as detrimental to your health as estrogen.. Other than sterility and loss of sex drive, is there any reprecussions from that that are indeed permanant? (I could care less about sterility and my sex drive is already nonexistant) And if so... I dont want to take a dosage that could potentially be dangerous... What would you suggest... Remember I'm thinking about this for the future... Also, if I were to start an androgen blocker, and then an estrogen regiment later... at what point would the results become apparent physically and permanent... And would self medication hurt my chances of getting approved for SRS.


    I'm 5 7 and 130 lbs if that helps?
  • January 25, 2006 9:26 AM GMT
    Spironolactone is a diurethal medication with testosterone blocking abilities as extra. Daily 50mg - 100mg will do for the start. It is a prescription medicine also in the US, but probably more easy to get than estradiol. On long run spiro can have adverse effects on you liver. Take blood tests before and after.
    Even spironolactone alone CAN make your breasts grow a bit.

    Laura
    • 3 posts
    January 25, 2006 9:29 AM GMT
    Well how exactly would you go about taking the blood tests... just going into a doctor and saying take this test? I really dont know too much about this...

    And I really dont mind growing breasts... in fact I'd like them... I just dont want to make this transition rougher than it has to be.
  • January 25, 2006 9:32 AM GMT
    Oh, I don´t know exactly, tests concerning your liver values.
    That´s how they call it in my country. Maybe someone can tell you the exact word in English. Let´s wait for Sandra, she knows .

    Laura

    • 588 posts
    January 25, 2006 11:35 AM GMT
    Haley,

    at the GID clinic here in Oslo I got the completely opposite message. The chief psychiatrist used my age (40) against me. And she actually said that most of their patients are 18-20 year olds. It seems she considered that the ideal age. Still, they are required to live full time for a year. Without that the doctors simply would feel too unsecure, I guess.

    Linda
    Sabina
    • 588 posts
    January 25, 2006 12:11 PM GMT
    Yes, and that way they can have their "diagnosis" confirmed: "This patient certainly is disordered. It's clearly a man pretending to be a woman".
    Just my guess - of what's going on in the wonderfully wellordered minds of some of these doctors...


    Linda
    Sabina
  • January 25, 2006 12:12 PM GMT
    The age can be used against us in all cases. If you are not too young you are too old : "Old man, out of his mind". As one of us, by the way younger than me, was commented.
    A RLE without hormones is a reality tv survive game. Nothing to do with womanhood.

    Laura
    • 3 posts
    January 26, 2006 6:02 AM GMT
    I've decided to not think about this for about 6 months... Its safer that way and may give my therapist and myself some time to really sort this out further... It was just on my mind so much for the last few months that I was going crazy... Just really need to take this slower.
    • 2573 posts
    January 25, 2006 4:43 PM GMT
    Haley,

    First, I would like to welcome you to TW, sister.

    It's clear to me that you have given this matter a lot of serious thought. You seem to be aware of a number of critical points. The truth is, the sooner you do HRT, the more effective it will be. The antiandrogens will help prevent "the damage" that male hormones will do in creating the irreversible male body type. Unfortunately, it is a matter of knowing what you want, no...make that NEED, and doing it as soon as possible to get the best results. Unfortunately, you better be right, because you only get one "best" chance at this. "If you were 30...." most, near irreversible, testosterone-induced changes would have already occured and you would transition as less feminine than if you did it now....or, preferably, younger. I am not encouraging you to start transitioning now. I am encouraging you to be sure and make your decision as soon as possible. You can't come back, whatever road you take? Later the road will not lead to the same body it will now, either way.

    Once I hit 15, I began my irreversible changes to a male body. They continued up to my thirties, in spurts.

    As long as you are aware what a life-changing decision you are making, and the permanent effects it will have, you should decide and act as soon as possible. I doubt that you are dealing with the situation you are if you are not TG and, probably, TS....but you have to live with the results of your decision.........for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It's a lousy deal, but.....better to have the choice now than at 50 when the effect of HRT will be about 25% of what it is at your age.

    Before you discount sterility, think about it. You may find later that you want your own children. Issues like storing sperm for later fertilizing an egg so that you can have your own, gentic child may be more important to you later in life. You are of a generation of TS who may well be able to have a uterine transplant or carry a child in an ectopic pregnancy....or even, as a recent article implies, be able to undergo nanobot-induced body changes and have a female body (estimates are as low as 15-20 years from now for this). Do not underestimate the female urges that may come to you in the future. It's easy at 19. There are other issues than your body shape to be considered here.

    The technical details of HRT are important and labwork is necessary to protect your health. The real issue here is the relative value of various outcomes to you and your health care providers and family. I have found that my doctors frequently put more value on my life than I put on my personal TG values. For example, they thought nothing of permanently removing a part of my toe nail. I, on the other hand, was appalled at the idea of never being able to wear sandles again. This variation in value systems is a major issue for you. I think you can hear the anger and frustration from the other girls at having their value system ignored by their health care professionals. YOU have to live your life. Make the decision that is best for you. I remember a quote from my childhood.

    "Be sure you're right and then go ahead" - Davy Crockett.
    • Moderator
    • 1652 posts
    January 26, 2006 2:42 AM GMT
    Hello Haley
    As always, Wendy gives sound advice, as do the other girls. I will try to add to that with regards to the issue of hormones.
    Whether you self-medicate or get a prescription, I’d recommend anyone to do their own research into the effects and implications of taking hormones, learn as much as you can. It’s not an “exact science”, results vary between individuals, so my comments may be a bit of a generalisation, but I shall try to answer your specific questions, and will try to keep it simple.
    Anti-androgens: It’s perhaps not a good idea to take these alone; to reduce testosterone without replacing it with oestrogen could cause a hormonal imbalance, the body needs hormones to function properly.
    “…I've read that most effects are reversible and it’s not as detrimental to your health as estrogen”.
    If whether the effects are reversible or not is a concern of yours I’d advise you to search your soul a little deeper before embarking on a course of hormones. Whether they are or not is debatable and depends on a number of factors (not least - which particular anti-androgen you were to take). Perhaps the safest approach is to assume that their effects will be irreversible. Without going into it in depth, I would disagree with the second part of that statement about what you’ve read. 17B estradiol (a bio-identical oestrogen) is probably no more harmful than any anti-androgen, and in fact is probably safer than most.
    As has been pointed out, it’s wise to have blood tests done for things like liver function and blood pressure, to ensure no harm is being done. The usefulness of testing oestrogen/testosterone levels is again debatable, the best indications of results are those that you see! However if you are getting prescriptions these tests should be done for you as a matter of course.
    “…if I were to start an androgen blocker, and then an estrogen regiment later... at what point would the results become apparent physically and permanent?”
    No straight answer, it varies, and there are many determining factors. I’ve been taking oestrogen for 15 months, I’m about a double-A cup (ie quite small) and could probably hide this by wearing baggy clothes if I wanted to (which I don’t, being full-time). Sadly, I’m sure I could still pass as a man if I needed to, but if I were in a changing room or sauna, it would certainly arouse suspicion. There aren’t many other obvious changes, softer skin certainly (but who’s going to notice that?) and a very slight reduction in body hair, hard to say whether or not that would be noticeable if I’d never shaved my legs.
    “…would self medication hurt my chances of getting approved for SRS?”
    Doubtful, it wouldn’t in this country.
    One other thing I would add about androgen blockers, I’ve read, and been told by more than one doctor that if you take a sufficient quantity of oestrogen then this alone will cause testosterone to be reduced, meaning that androgen blockers are not necessary. Some will disagree with this view, maybe the blockers will help, maybe they won’t, maybe they will cause atrophy of donor tissue in time, adversely affecting the outcome of srs, maybe they won’t. I took spironolactone for a year, and noticed some slight effects relating to my sexual function, but not much else. 6 months after starting on the spiro I added estradiol, (having been wasting my time with phyto-oestrogens), then after another 6 months dropped the spiro. I noticed absolutely no difference anywhere from not taking spiro, perhaps proof that the oestrogen was indeed reducing testosterone.
    Our national health service doesn’t prescribe androgen-blockers, their view is as above, that they serve no purpose when taking oestrogen, and simply put more strain on the liver etc.
    In very simple terms, oestrogen is the key to feminisation.
    You either transition or you don’t, I wouldn’t recommend the “suck it and see” approach, but I would say that after a few months on oestrogen, perhaps before any effects do become irreversible, you will know whether it is for you or not. If the changes in your mood/emotions and body don’t feel right then perhaps you’re doing the wrong thing, but of course this isn’t the only issue if you have any uncertainties about transitioning, hence the “Real Life Experience”. I don’t totally agree with our system’s approach to the RLE, but it sorts the men from the girls. If you can’t handle it, then maybe transition is not for you.
    Sorry I’ve rambled on, feel free to ask us all more questions, and best of luck to you.
    xx