I know it seems a small thing, but I don't think it's too much to ask.

I have paid a dear price for the expression of my identity, in the form of the sacrifice of my home and a solid career. I made this sacrifice because of who I am. I have spent the last few years rebuilding my life to suit my real identity. I work hard in the halls of the US Congress, the Virginia Statehouse, in the streets to secure the rights of others to express their identity freely. At the bank, the supermarket, the gas station, complete strangers address me with the appropriate salutations and pronouns consistent with my identity.

Twice in the past week, I have been referred to in chat with masculine pronouns, once by a fellow chat participant and once by a TW staff member, and it makes me distinctly uncomfortable. Here in the context of this web-based community presumably built on the concept of mutual support, it is my view that we should be especially mindful of how we address one another, that we do so with respect and in the spirit of support that made TW great.

It's easy to say "I was tired" or "I wasn't thinking." It should not be an effort for us to address one another in a manner consistent with our identity. We are all here with the same purpose, to express our identity, and as such, the mutual perception of our identities should be reflected in the automatic recognition of identity by means of the effortless use of the appropriate salutations and pronouns.

A small thing? Perhaps, but if so, surely not too much to ask.

It is the quickest way to upset anyone, but I am sure these instances were in error. I am sure who ever said these things Robyn didnt mean to offend. you do alot for our cause and that is respected very much. ani x

Sue, I think many of us can put our name on your message. That kind of stuff happens to each of us from time to time. Obviously unintentional. I also understand the otherside of the story because often when you read or hear something that appears offending, you don't get a quick clarification of the intended meaning. Life goes on, I hope you work things out.
Love,
Marsha

No that is not to much to ask. I would think of it as an insult.

I too would be offended by this Robyn, it can happen but it shouldn't occur in here really. Particularly if the person addressing you has only ever known you as female.

I don't know if this was used since I wasn't there but..........

..............the term 'guys' is often used to address everybody, female and male, so I let that one by and have used it myself quite often to GG's as well and noone is offended by it.

I blame 'Friends', they used it a lot and I watch friends a lot!!

Nikki

Hi Robyn-

I understand what you're saying, it is simply a point of courtesy in the transworld to address someone by the proper pronoun in a particular situation. But people do slip up occasionally. FWIW, I had a friend I used to hang around with both in male and t-girl mode. The hardest part was not remembering to address her using feminine pronouns, that was easy, what was hard was to remember not to do it while she was in male attire. I'm sure no offense was meant, Robyn, but your point is certainly one that needs an occasional reminder.

Hugs...Joni Marie

I don't think I'd get offended unless it was repeated by the same person. I know the chat room can move fast & some may slip before catching it. Having to talk like a man has been put in our heads for a long time. But if a mod did it that person needs to be more carefull.

Well I can understand how you feel, Robyn. I’d be surprised though if this was intentional. I have to admit that my typing is not at its best when I’m in the chatroom, and quite possibly I may in the past have mistyped “he” instead of “she” in my haste to keep up with the chat. Of course if anyone did that to me I’d probably point it out to them, they’d probably apologise for their typo, and would be instantly forgiven. So don’t fume about it in silence; it may just have been an accident.
If people do it in person, now that’s a different matter.
I was in London one summer, had my best dress on, hair done nicely, carefully applied make up (for a change). I went into a Monsoon Accessorise shop and found a lovely necklace, couldn’t resist, so took it to the counter to pay. “Thank you, Sir”, came the reply from the guy at the till as I placed it on the counter. Grrr. I felt like chucking it in his face, or wrapping it around his neck extremely tightly, but I really wanted the necklace so I just gave him my best melting glare and handed over my credit card with of course my female name on it.
“Thank you, Madam”, I said, pointedly.
People KNOW that if someone is presenting as female then they should be referred to as such, especially shopkeepers, especially in London, and especially in women’s shops. Everything about the shopkeeper in question screamed GAY, so I guess he was just one of those gays who has an issue with trans women.
There may always be people with such issues, but it certainly shouldn’t happen on Trannyweb.
xx

guy1 /gaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[gahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, guyed, guy·ing.
–noun
1. Informal. a man or boy; fellow: He's a nice guy.
2. Usually, guys. Informal. persons of either sex; people: Could one of you guys help me with this?


Unless you mean a wire or cable used to secure a mast or tower. Of course it's in the dictionary. It's an informal or slang usage but it's there. It's in the OED, frevinnsakes. And whether something's in "the dictionary" doesn't mean anything. Dictionaries take ages to catch up with common usage and are, or should be, descriptive rather than prescriptive.

-Joni Marie

Thankyou for that Joni, I can carry on using it now without feeling like I am upsetting anyone. Not that I use it on TW (or I try not to) but I do use it day to day.

Nikki

<lol> Anytime, Nikki. I use the word "guys" all the time, too. And I don't mean in relation to a mast on a ship either. I hear it all the time, people use it in addressing a group whether a mixed bunch or not. "Hey, you guys wanna go have something to eat?" "Hey you guys wanna meet after work for a drink?" I think the word guys has totally lost any gender connotation and is used, at least when addressing a group, to mean everyone in the group.

Hugs...Joni Marie

I use a websters in my pc it fits in the top corner & I can use it while doing something else.


guy1 (gj)
n.
[ME gie < OFr guie, a guide < guier < guider: see GUIDE] a rope, chain, rod, or wire attached to something to steady or guide it
vt.
to guide or steady with a guy

guy2 (gj)
n.
[after Guy FAWKES]
1 in England, an effigy of Guy Fawkes displayed and burned on Guy Fawkes Day
2 [Brit.] a person whose appearance or dress is odd
*3 [Informal] a) a man or boy; fellow b) any person

vt.
[Informal] to make fun of; ridicule; josh; tease

guy
n.
1. [Lateral tensile support] — Syn. cable, truss, sling, hawser, guy wire, guy rope, tent rope, tackle, cinch, bond, line, stay, painter, chain, tie, thong, bowline, strap, lanyard, brace, tendon, vinculum, copula.
2. [*Fellow] — Syn. chap, lad, person; see fellow 1.
[See] band, bird, dude, man

Hi Robyn, I agree with you hon their is no real excuse for other girls or boys here to refer to any girl in a masculine way, its simply a matter of comon courtesy especially if you have a icon picture that shows you as female. I have a similar problem as regards to my name being shortened to Sam which issent realy unusaul for a girl i just think of it as a boys name, that might be a little silly of me but i have posted in my profile that i prefer Samantha or Sammi, maybe one day everyone will know me well enough to stop using Sam.

keep up the fight hon just wish i had the courage and intelegence to do the same here in the UK.

Hugs Sammi x

It's not silly Sammi, if you don't like being called 'Sam' then that should be respected. I don't shorten anyones name until the person tells me it is ok to do so, and then they usually say what it can be shortened to anyway.

Nikki

Speculation is totally unecessary as to the perpetrator of this foul deed. I will here and now hold up my hand to being the culprit.
As excuses and by implication apologies have already been rejected out of hand, I shall do neither in this instance.

Anyone who knows me will obviously also know I would never do such a thing intentionally. I have always tried to remember to use peoples preferences when using their names, both in full or when abbreviating, and correct pronouns and other definitions. Sometimes I forget. Nobody's perfect.
I make no claims to be a typist, and when going quickly I get letters in the wrong order, extra letters or sometimes letters missed out altogether. Sometimes I hit the enter key before I check what I've typed. And at the end of the day I may not be wearing my glasses, and thereby not always reading what I've written correctly either. Mistakes happen.

I also do use 'guys' in the sense spoken of further up, a generalisation for 'gang' or 'group' or the absurd 'y'all'. I don't use 'kids', as that implies a certain immaturity on behalf of the receiver, and could be perceived as insulting.

I have been in chat where on many occasions I could have taken umbrage at some of the things said to or about me, improper pronouns included. I have been insulted in the forums. I get called 'sir' and 'he' sometimes at work, where I am being judged purely on my voice, and on rare occasions I hear it when I'm out. It hurts. but life's too short, so I decided a long time ago that I would not let it affect me, so I don't let it. There are those who will say unless we shout and stamp our feet, we will never get the recognition and respect and treatment we deserve. I am of the sticks and stones brigade, and have acheived all three more often than not. My bed, I'm lying in it, and it's pretty comfortable.

I agree Robyn,

This is what someone said about my TG friend and it was quite upsetting:

"You ******* stay at home crossdressers need to learn that genderidentity is something that is earned at a very dear price. This is notlike creating a character in some ******** computer game. Get used to it. HE doesn’tdeserve them."

Profanity edited out.

Clearly an intentional and vicious attack on the person's gender identity. I won't mention who said it (some time in the past) as this is a personal issue but I think it's EXACTLY the kind of abuse of pronouns that you are talking about. It should not happen.

Still we make mistakes. I occasionally do, especially when juggling a person's male-female lives on the fly in a chat. Perhaps what you experienced was just one of these unintentional errors.

Hi Wendy-

I can understand how upsetting that would be to someone who is just thinking of coming out. We all have to start somewhere and I'm sure we have all spent time in our respective closets no matter how out or partly out we may be now. Whoever wrote that probably feels all TG people are equal, only some are more equal than others.

Hugs...Joni Marie