I apologize for putting this in the general forum, but I am not able to post in the surgery forum (I'd love to become a full member again when I have the funds), so I thought I'd post it here.

Now I know that statistics show that the majority of mtf transsexuals who go through SRS claim to be able to experience orgasm and all after SRS.

Now we also know that hormones, especially anti-androgens can have different effects on different people. When the dose gets higher (this is Pre-Op btw), sometimes sexual ability diminishes. In my example, my anti-androgens are up at 100MG twice a day and my ability to get an erection or to feel stimulation has diminished quite a lot.

Now my question is...within this group of people who experience severely decreased sexual ability due to anti-androgens pre-op, what is that correlation with the ability to experience orgasm once post op?

I would think that considering your testosterone supply would be removed with SRS anyway, that the fact that most post-ops can experience orgasm would have nothing to do with testosterone/anti-androgen related issues from pre-op stages.

Just curious!

P.S. My parents have agreed to help fund my SRS for sometime next year. Just doing more research before I even think of applying anywhere. Hoorah!

Currently I'm on:

Spironolactone: 100MG, twice a day.
Estradiol: 2 MG, twice a day.

I've always heard lots of suggestions for Dr. Suporn. I've also heard good things about a few in the states, namely Marci Bowers in Colorado. Now, does anyone know the price comparison? How does the price of Dr. Suporn's surgery added with the cost of travel/stay compare to the price of a top surgeon in the U.S.? And how highly does one believe that Dr. Suporn does the surgery at a higher quality in comparison to those in the states?

Thanks for all the responses.

According to my RG friends the ability to orgasm is not simply a question of physical stimulation,presence or lack of nerve endings etc.There is a mental element which shouldn't be overlooked.If you've chanced upon a 'wham-bam-thankyou mam' adherent who only wants a quick knee-trembler,and for whom your feelings are more or less zilch, then any orgasm will be in the fluke category.They could be a useful dilation variant though!If,on the other hand,you're having it off with someone who you really want to climax with,who is sensitive to your needs and your reactions,then the orgasm chances are very much higher.It also helps if you've explored yourself and have a good idea of where any pleasurable,sensitive areas are so that,if necessary,you can let your lover know just how,what and where you like things.

I recall many years ago reading similar comments from a post-op T-girl.She also reckoned that,if she really wanted the person she was with,then she could have an orgasm.


Lynn

Rose (and everyone), thanks for your responses and explanations.

It has been hard to reach orgasm mostly due to my inability to feel most stimulation and a seemingly larger threshhold to reach concerning erection. But someone did get me to climax in the last month or so and I noticed it was still fairly fluid filled and all.

Hopefully (with when I plan on getting SRS) I will only have been on HRT for between 14 months and 2 years, even if my anti-androgens were at a high dose.

We shall definitely see.

SRS Update: I have been doing a lot research and talking with the staff at Christine McGinn's practice in PA/FL. I am currently trying to schedule a consultation with her and I have heard that there is a possibility of scheduling surgery in August. I'll update again when I know for sure. ^_^

<3 Angel

Hi Rae,

Mental in the sense of 'in the head' or 'psychological element'............and not a Cadbury's chocolate block!


Sorry all about the RG/GG thing-I came more or less directly from another Tranny site where a furious argument was raging over the use of shorthand like RG,GG etc-are they offensive or not...............................................................?


Lynn

Rose, that is about the best explanation I have seen in a long long while

Thank you very much for the post


Stephenie

Hey, Angelyn,

For me, no apology necessary - it's a rare treat to read / discuss surgery amongst us mere peons who can't quite rustle up full membership! [Absolutley no offence meant to TW and I support the current structure - I'll get there one day...]

I speak in ignorance, hunni, but also in interest.

From what I can gather, post-operative orgasm has a reasonable amount to do with the skill of the surgeon involved. Should that assumption prove to be fact, then choose wisely.

My current thinking swings towards Thailand's Dr Suporn - and also involves dreaming of winning the lottery! [His current prices are around the £10k area plus flights, hotel etc etc. But he does seem to be at the top of the tree...

I'm sorry I can't answer you fully - I think, obviously, pre-op + hormones = chemical castration [near enough] but post-op + hormones = more of a female reaction. Potentially. Hopefully someone who understands hormonal effects on the post-op body could advise...

Given the slim chance that, perhaps, I won't win the lottery, any chance of your parents adopting another girl???

Much love to you

Rae xx

ps: It would be interesting to see what those who have had the op in the UK think. I have never spent a night in hospital let alone undergone any kind of surgery. Given all the scare stories about the NHS, there's no chance I'd have surgery here [call me a coward, no worries], I'd rather go without - and thats a big thing to say...

Remember, you have two things operating here:

1. Sexual drive - emotional (psychological and hormonal)
2. Sexual response - neurological and structural. (much of this depends on the surgeons skill and what he/she has to work with)

Just briefly, cos I’m a bit busy…
Ability to orgasm post-op has nothing to do with testosterone levels, and perhaps it’s unlikely that your hormone regime pre-op would make any difference either. Of course pre-op, one’s male parts need testo to function properly, so sexual virility is often affected.
I can personally vouch for the skill of Dr Suporn, most, if not virtually all his patients are able to orgasm post-op, I have absolutely no problem…
What particular anti-androgens are you on, Angelyn?
xx

Angelyn,

I can't speak for the states - not considered it but would be interested to know what others think.

But do have a look at Dr Suporn's site: http://www.supornclinic.com It's a very full, concise and informative site. The staff there are incredibly friendly and happy to answer email queries - even when you state [as I did] it's a way off yet and just a dream...

Lucy, thankyou for your comments - I thought it was you that had planted that seed in my mind! If/when you have time please get in touch, my mail addy is in my signature block - I can't send PM's still due to conflicts with me, mozilla and my coal-burning pc... but would like to know more about your experiences there. If that's ok.

Much love

Rae x

Christine,

Thankyou for your post, it was quite interesting. I followed the first link ok but the second did'nt work.

I'm still trying to figure my body out and getting nowhere quite quickly. [Sometimes the net is more a curse than a cure!] If you have the time, my email is in my signature block and I'd appreciate a little of your time, if that's ok. As I said to Lucy, I can't send PM's at the mo hence the unorthodox request.

Much love

Rae x

[ps: I hope TW don't mind me giving out my email address - I'm not sure of the rules amidst basic members. However, it is only as an alternative to my misbegotten inability to PM]

Hey Lynn,

This has every chance of being 'muddied waters' so to speak.

I can absolutely understand what your saying with regards to there being a 'mental' element to orgasm. I think thats probably true for everyone.

I am a little behind the times, though, RG? Does that mean naturally born girls? I'm not sure, TBH. Obviously, if you find it difficult to orgasm - pre or post op - that may not change. But if you have a full set of nerves built in then you're going to find it's not so bad.

At the end of the day there is a whole wide set of people experiencing different things. I don't mind embarassing myself by stating that I can achieve orgasm through nipple / breast manipulation alone. I don't expect that to change. [It better bl**dy not!!!]

But thats the problem, we're all different. Are'nt we??

Much love

Rae xx

Erm, Lynn, this is a hard one - absolutely no pun intended! I'm not sure how to add to what you say. I don't want to misinterpret or be confused. The problem I have is bringing my past into the argument. The 'mental' element was my undoing. Not sure I'm with you 100% ...

Much love

Rae xx

Rae,

In the mystical world of TG/TS terminology, RG (real girl) is the UK equivalent of GG (genetic girl)....at least near as I can determine, lol. For all I know somebody uses it for post-op TS as RG (restored girl)....but I think you will find that is the general usage.

Wendy, lol, thankyou hunni!

Oh dear. I knew GG but RG foxed me - and to think I enjoy crosswords!

Do like the option of 'Restored Girl' though...

Much love to you and I hope all is well in your world.

Rae xx

This may get me into serious argument with various people who do not know what a male body contains...viz: seminal vesicles.

The SVs sit above the prostate gland which is wrongly named being only a gland in the same sense that in engineering terms a gland is a valve or tap to cut off flow of liquid.

In the films of burning oilfields etc you have seen a brave hero jump on a pipeline or tanker and wind a wheel to open a valve to release water or shut off burning oil? That valve is also known as a gland.

These SVs are two large glands containing storage cells that produce the thick liquid of orgasm in males and most likely do the same with post ops to give all the orgasm wetness of the GGs.
In orgasm the muscles spasm and cause the SVs to empty at the same time the prostate opens to releases the stored sperm.

The Prostate is just a muscle that clamps round the urethra to shut off or release a flow of urine juts like the taps on the sink. It is also a fancy three way valve/gland/tap as it also shuts off or release seminal fluid. But it can't release semen and urine at the same time or some dirty men would pee inside their women. A man who can pee while hard has got prostate problems.

But if you go to Wikipedia and click on Seminal Vesicles you get pix of male body and you see the SVs above and behide the prostate and bladder.

A pre-ops orgasmic fluid - seminal fluid/semen actually contains the sperm stored since the last orgasm plus a large spoonful of this seminal fluid which is actually analysed as made from fructose/fruit sugar, citric acid, vairous other nutrients...the scinetists even today don't know exacly what this fluid does...it did seem that being basically a high energy drink it might have been used to fuel the sperm as they wander round the womb swimming through the sticky mucus looking for an egg to fertislise...now the thinking is that this fluid might make the mucus easier to swim through, or act as a barrier to germs etc...no-one knows!

Pre-op semen is the thick pale grey stuff cos it contains lots of sperm and dead sperm cells etc..but the SV fluid is clear and slippery - just like a GG's natural wetness.

A post-ops doing nice effective lovemaking will get an orgasm that uses exactly the same muscles as the pre-op to contract the SVs to squirt out the stored fluid and the prostate will open to let it out into the new vagina.

However during the high hormone period leading to SRS the prostate, testicles and SVs all shrink from the action of the estrogen and depending on how long that period lasts will depend on how much the SV shrinks.
This is why the medical books all state that after some time on hormones a pre-op will only have dry orgasms as the testicles and SVs have shrunk and stopped producing sperm and fluid.

However. last year I had a weird experience when I peed out a mass of blood and grey mushy stuff and some balck blood clots.
This came after I had been a bit constipated and had to really force a 'hard stool' out lol. Latre that day I felt weird and my pee began to feel the burning of a urine infcetion. I went to bed and lay there feeling as though I was really blocked solid with hard 'stools'. So I popped onto toilet 3/4 times but did nothing then suddenly I peed out this mess of blood and mush. Terrified me. But doctors couldn't find anything.

They refused to believe me that I had this feeling of something hard pressing inside that suddenly stopped as I did all the blood and mush.

I think that my SVs got clogged from disuse as after a few months on hormones I stopped getting erections and then they got infected and the constipation put so much pressure on them that they leaked and then discharged.

The whole problem came and went in about 12 hours.
It only made sense when I saw the Wikipedia pix and saw that the SVs are up against the rectum and straining to pass out a really big hard lump would put pressure on them.

It happeened again a month later after another bit of constipation but that time I also had a pain in lower abdomen..

Anyway, regardless of what anyone else thinks I think that once post-op and off high hormones the SVs will once again start producing fluid and release it down the urethra during orgasmic lovemaking.
Also of course the tiny Cowpers Gland (another wrong name as its actually a vesicle to store and relase lubricating fluid) will also release the fluid to lubricate the new vagina during sex play just as it lubricated the pre-op penis.

The wetness of a post-ops vagina after orgasm will be partly the spern/semen of the partner and the output of the SVs and the CG.
One way to think of this is that a post-op having sex with a guy with a condom will be almost as wet as without condom?

NHS will do SRS on anyone who passes the Harry Benjamin Standards...so no worries about costs.

In last year I've had breast and hair implants in Tiunisian hospital, orchiedectomy and knee op in UK hospitals and in the morning I'm in hospital again for ankle op...in the Tunisian hospital a person came and took swabs of all the bathroom and the bed and bedside cabinets to check for cleanliness...I noticed that they are now starting to do a few swab tests on Uk wards.

Infection levels are quite low really but the main problem is that the British area nation of filthy people who just won't wash regularly..and many are too stupid to do so...you probly know people who only bath once a week and never shower in between?

At the pre-surgery assessment for the ankle op I was swabbed in my nostrils, armpits and groin to check to see if I was carrying MRSA etc and if I had been I would have been provided with strong soapa nd told to use it and be checked agin before being allowed in the hospital.

I would like to know how many dirty people are rejected as being carriers and filthy.

You can see people who are dirty everytime you go out. imagine the bugs on them!

The main infection bugs are carried on our skin and in some hospitals now they insist on people having showers and wearing clean hospital gear before being allowed into the beds.

For my knee op I had the shower and then they slopped brown disinfcetant all over my leg.. but for foot and ankle surgery they insist on patients soaking feet in a bowl of hot disinfectatnt and then wrapping them in sterile dressings while waiting to be called into op theatre..

Rose, hunni,

If you think your posts here will get you into an argument, well, that's one argument I'd really like to see!

I am, to use the Liverpudlian, absolutely gobsmacked. Your post has left me quite - and unusually - speechless.

You have, quite succinctly, steamrollered through some complex biological area's and rendered the material fit for the likes of me. Little Miss Average. Whilst I'm intelligent in some area's, when it comes to all things medicinal and biological then I am completely dyslexic. I just cannot quite get my head around it. And for someone going along the road of change, thats a potentially problematic handicap.

You have an excellent natural ability to describe the difficult in easy to understand terms. And, as a writer, I take my bonnet off to you and salute you.

Katie and / or Meredith should be beating down your email doorway with requests to contribute a quarterly column to the Tribune IMHO.

Thankyou once again. [I think I almost understood what you were talking about!!!!]

Much love

Rae x

Rose,
I doubt that the brown substance they put all over your leg was a disinfectant, which destroys microorganisms found on non-living objects. It was likely an Antiseptic (antimicrobial substances that are applied to living tissue/skin to reduce the possibility of infection, sepsis, or putrefaction.) Microbicide such as Povidone-Iodine, a reddish brown substance applied to skin surfaces in the OR before surgery. It may be used before the OR to further prepare an area. Orthopedic surgery is particularly risky when infections occur.